Around the Verse - Secondary Viewports & 3.0 Delay Reviewed - Star Citizen Videos - MMORPG.com

2»

Comments

  • sgelsgel Member RarePosts: 1,439
    edited August 5
    MaxBacon said:
    sgel said:
    Wait what?
    MMO's will have to catch up with SC?

    Are you delusional? :D
    100% not, I think it's delusional to think otherwise.

    Especially in the tech front, not only graphics but the core, the physics, the simulation that run through several systems, the obvious scale vs quality, the tech that allows the streaming in and out of massive high-detail assets seamlessly in a performing manner (like Levski inc in 3.0), to even the UI and the Animation front where mocap that has been a standard in AAA for facial animation and such is still not a proper thing in MMO's, there's many bits where SC is miles ahead of what other MMO's have or are doing.

    Having the time spent in creating and extending tech, to achieve the quality you would find in one mainstream SP Campaign game, in one MMO.

    Because MMO's themselves still have to catch up to the quality (both on visuals and tech) of SP/Online Games coming out (and that's what I meant).
    So basically fidelity.com
    Hate to break it to you but not everyone has Chris Roberts' obsession with fidelity/eye candy.
    Though BDO has gone for that and has succeeded quite well it seems.

    A game isn't just graphics neither does it have to have a huge seamless playing areas to be a good game or compete with other MMOs.

    CIG is out to impress it's backers (Buy an Idris guys!) by doing seamless things in pretty space ships while having such boring and uninspiring gameplay.

    Project Gorgon, a game made by 1/2 guys has more intuitive MMO gameplay than the entire 400+ horde of developers CIG has amassed.

    Post edited by sgel on
    Zandog

    ..Cake..

  • goobsnewsgoobsnews Member UncommonPosts: 183
    is 3.0 yet or did it get delayed for the 5th time?
    ExcessionZandog
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 3,639
    edited August 5
    sgel said:
    So basically fidelity.com
    Hate to break it to you but not everyone has Chris Roberts' obsession with fidelity/eye candy.
    Though BDO has gone for that and has succeeded quite well it seems.

    A game isn't just graphics neither does it have to have a huge seamless playing areas to be a good game or compete with other MMOs.

    CIG is out to impress it's backers (Buy an Idris guys!) by doing seamless things in pretty space ships while having such boring and uninspiring gameplay.

    Project Gorgon, a game made by 1/2 guys has more intuitive MMO gameplay than the entire 400+ horde of developers CIG has amassed.

    Fidelity/immersion I find important because It's the big slice missing on MMO's, they take that more superficial approach that in several aspects are almost a copy/paste from other MMO's.

    SC doesn't do that, they are willing to go the extra mile, giving that depth is hard, especially when there's so many game systems and there's the whole optimization and challenge of make it all work together well. The tech lays fundamentals that then they can fill with content, say creating those planets and such at that visual quality creates a massive playfield, the tech benefits them because the moment they can just stream in and out this stuff they can just have a lot of content added to a planet and back up the scale.

    BDO, for example, has higher standard than most MMO's (in some areas ofc), graphically yes (even though they didn't bother to make it properly hence the huge popping issue), also in that whole heavy on animation, bieng able to climb buildings, jump around them some sort of Assassin's Creed style, that's all that sort of things that add to the experience, BDO sadly for me went with one super bloated pop out interface that when you look at SC's new UI I'm just glad they took the time to refactor it and do it like that.

    Say in SC only the physics are impressive, the grids, the transitions between them (g / 0g / low g), planets with multiple gravity levels (big on physics and animations), the whole docking a ship inside a ship, it's all part of the sort of tech that does add to the gameplay, that is the extra mile. And that is why I backed the game in the first place, and why I'm patient for it as this develops.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    GdemamiZandog
  • sgelsgel Member RarePosts: 1,439
    MaxBacon said:
    sgel said:
    So basically fidelity.com
    Hate to break it to you but not everyone has Chris Roberts' obsession with fidelity/eye candy.
    Though BDO has gone for that and has succeeded quite well it seems.

    A game isn't just graphics neither does it have to have a huge seamless playing areas to be a good game or compete with other MMOs.

    CIG is out to impress it's backers (Buy an Idris guys!) by doing seamless things in pretty space ships while having such boring and uninspiring gameplay.

    Project Gorgon, a game made by 1/2 guys has more intuitive MMO gameplay than the entire 400+ horde of developers CIG has amassed.

    Fidelity/immersion I find important because It's the big slice missing on MMO's, they take that more superficial approach that in several aspects are almost a copy/paste from other MMO's.
    Just because devs go for non-realistic themes or more cartoonish art direction, doesn't mean it's superficial. 

    There's a reason MMOs are called that, because they share similar gameplay. Calling it copy/paste is rather ignorant.

    Even SC has the most basic quests you see in decade old games.

    CIG makes cool graphics but their gameplay ideas could be thought up by a 7 year old.



    Zandog

    ..Cake..

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 3,639
    edited August 5
    sgel said:
    Just because devs go for non-realistic themes or more cartoonish art direction, doesn't mean it's superficial. 

    There's a reason MMOs are called that, because they share similar gameplay. Calling it copy/paste is rather ignorant.

    Even SC has the most basic quests you see in decade old games.

    CIG makes cool graphics but their gameplay ideas could be thought up by a 7 year old.
    I'm not saying those are bad or not fun, I'm saying that what SC is doing is missing from the genre, putting a big focus in the R on MMORPG, especially on this quality tier. The copy/paste I mean is the same mechanic, gameplay flow, progression, etc... That the vast majority stays locked to the same template" and I just find it tiring.

    The quest/mission system of SC, it still has the fetch & grab type of questing but it's what drives it that makes it proper, that is their generation, the player-driven approach, and what's ongoing in dev and design for this stuff.

    One example of this is say the game generates a mission to collect a black box in X ship space wreck, the game will both create the mission for lawful players (retrieve to client) and to unlawful players (steal), when multiple players get the same objective for different reasons it it will lead to MP action, what creates a refreshing approach to the basic type of questing we're so used to.

    So the design approach is moving beyond the typical and static questing, especially with player-driven mission generation.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    GdemamiZandog
  • mraneremranere Essex, MDMember UncommonPosts: 10
    This game is taking so long to get made that I constantly forget I even own it. Then once I get into the game I feel like I am playing a pre-alpha version of a game that has so much in it, with no explanation on how to do anything, that I just can't be bothered to try to figure it all out. As I, and everyone I see, runs around with the bald, male, all the same body characters.

    I expect there to be a wipe someday, I don't want to be Kojak in game anymore.
    Zandog
  • sgelsgel Member RarePosts: 1,439
    edited August 5
    MaxBacon said:


    So the design approach is moving beyond the typical and static questing, especially with player-driven mission generation.
    Questing has already been innovated. There's games with numerous iterations of improvement on dynamic questing. WAR comes to mind, RIFT with its invasions then GW2 as a more polished idea.
    Taking the ancient idea of fetch quests and adding a tree to left or right, isn't really innovating is it. CIG has no innovate ideas about questing.

    As for putting the R back in MMORPG... how exactly is it doing that?
    Just because you need to use your fantasy to pretend you're having fun, because of the lack of things to do, doesn't mean the game is promoting roleplaying.
    I remember then they showed Star Marine and did all that military squad talk... how cringey it looked. Look what a mediocre forgettable game mode that is.

    Take games like LOTRO as an example of games giving the players tools/mechanics to promote roleplaying.
    Post edited by sgel on
    Zandog

    ..Cake..

  • April-RainApril-Rain LeedsMember UncommonPosts: 305


    Oh god, Blober is here now as well? Is there no article or forum that is free from the Blober taint?



    nope lol, pretty sure he is or works for chris roberts lol
    Zandog

    Playing: SW Legends, Guild Wars 2
    Future: wishing for SWG 2, Project Copernicus!
    Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 16 Years in....

    Fix Lotro for the EU! Dam laggy USA servers are no good!

  • SamhaelSamhael Huntsville, ALMember UncommonPosts: 928

    IceAge said:

    At this time, I am pretty sure that DarkFall will be .. dethroned by SC in terms of development time, which is a very bad thing.



    A bit of .."history" :



    "On 29 August 2001, Razorwax announced the development of Darkfall and launched its official website."

    "Release EU: 26 February 2009"



    "Star Citizen was announced in 2012 with an estimated release date of 2014, and has since been delayed repeatedly"

    "Release : 2030 ( as the guy above said )"



    So! We have Darkfall which it was in development for 7.5 years until release, and we have SC which is around 5 years in development and no release date yet.



    GO SC!! Take the trophy!



    Think is , by the time SC will be released ( and that is an iF actually ) , it will look like :



    https://xavnet.nl/eve/2002.12.20.20.48.49.jpg



    Wait! That is actually still looking good , despite is an Eve Online Beta screen shot.



    Oh well! It will look bad anyway! :)



    Looking forward for the next big patch ( 3.1 ) announcement in 2025 when it will be the year when we will go to the moon and have this :



    https://www.hookedgamers.com/images/5764/anno_2205/screenshot_pc_anno_2205001.jpg



    Ummm... which Darkfall? I think there's like three of them.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 3,639
    sgel said:
    Questing has already been innovated. There's games with numerous iterations of improvement on dynamic questing. WAR comes to mind, RIFT with its invasions then GW2 as a more polished idea.
    Taking the ancient idea of fetch quests and adding a tree to left or right, isn't really innovating is it. CIG has no innovate ideas about questing.

    As for putting the R back in MMORPG... how exactly is it doing that?
    Just because you need to use your fantasy to pretend you're having fun, because of the lack of things to do, doesn't mean the game is promoting roleplaying.
    I remember then they showed Star Marine and did all that military squad talk... how cringey it looked. Look what a mediocre forgettable game mode that is.

    Take games like LOTRO as an example of games giving the players tools/mechanics to promote roleplaying.
    GW2 is one dynamic event system I'd like to see in SC.

    But SC since its pitch want to drive the game-world out of missions that both the players and AI take, so they take this approach but making it dynamic and ofc integrated within the multiple professions they want to add in.

    The emergency beacons is one of those things for quests, if you get your ship destroyed, either you're floating in space or under one escape pod you will activate missions other players can take to rescue you, same for repairing or refueling, that's the nature of emergent play, the bounty hunting as well handled by it and such, one of the things I most care about this, is to create MP content as I dislike games where we just solo through questing all the way.

    From what is already known of it I think it is enough to give it enough depth, the fact that the more mechanics there are say mining, scanning, salvaging, boarding, etc... the more is there to generate missions for, both on PvE and PvP.

    The innovation is the mix of all working together, remember SC's economy itself is driven by missions, so this will be heavy on simulation and dynamic, hence why it's ruled by subsumption (master AI backend manager thing).

    This design talk of early days still applies on the core points:


    The immersive game drives the RP; I love that, not because I'm a roleplayer (I'm not) because I love when these details are considered that others never do, that is where you feel immersed in your character while playing, to even creating one UI that is merged with the game-world (it's only your 1st person and the game-world), even the death mechanics and all they announced that's all RP driven, you have perm-death but you don't lose things, it's just the RP approach to allow your character to die and your named successor to take ownership, you'll see through the entire game design this is the approach taken, side of world and mechanic design for RP only the first release of the director's mode caused quite the impact as it's perfect for machinima and roleplaying.

    The emergent play is a big help for this, the downside I think it's character customization where I think with the SC's setup they can't do miracles (like extensive body shape customization).
    Zandog
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILMember EpicPosts: 5,326
    Lots of posts lately about SC.  If I didn't know better I'd say the troops received their marching orders to stir up interest for upcoming conventions, demos, and ship/vehicle sales but I'm sure it's just a coincidence.
    gir243adamlotus75Zandog

    "Change is the only constant."

  • sgelsgel Member RarePosts: 1,439
    edited August 5
    MaxBacon said:


    But SC since its pitch want to drive the game-world out of missions that both the players and AI take, so they take this approach but making it dynamic and ofc integrated within the multiple professions they want to add in.

    I have no idea what you're trying to say. It sounds like a bunch of unspecified ideas.


    The emergency beacons is one of those things for quests, if you get your ship destroyed, either you're floating in space or under one escape pod you will activate missions other players can take to rescue you, same for repairing or refueling, that's the nature of emergent play, the bounty hunting as well handled by it and such, one of the things I most care about this, is to create MP content as I dislike games where we just solo through questing all the way.

    That sounds great for the players around the area. What about the player who died?
    He needs to wait until another player accepts the rescue beacon mission?
    You think this is a good gameplay idea?
    There's bounty hunting done well in other MMOS. 
    I'd really like to see how CIG implement it.


    From what is already known of it I think it is enough to give it enough depth, the fact that the more mechanics there are say mining, scanning, salvaging, boarding, etc... the more is there to generate missions for, both on PvE and PvP.

    All theory, let's just wait and see what they do.
    I bet it will be very generic.


    The innovation is the mix of all working together, remember SC's economy itself is driven by missions, so this will be heavy on simulation and dynamic, hence why it's ruled by subsumption (master AI backend manager thing).

    Again, all theory, let's wait and see how it's implemented.
    Eve has been doing this for more than a decade.


    The immersive game drives the RP; I love that, not because I'm a roleplayer (I'm not) because I love when these details are considered that others never do, that is where you feel immersed in your character while playing, to even creating one UI that is merged with the game-world (it's only your 1st person and the game-world), even the death mechanics and all they announced that's all RP driven, you have perm-death but you don't lose things, it's just the RP approach to allow your character to die and your named successor to take ownership, you'll see through the entire game design this is the approach taken, side of world and mechanic design for RP only the first release of the director's mode caused quite the impact as it's perfect for machinima and roleplaying.

    So basically again, fidelity/immersion is all that's needed for an amazing RP game?
    I disagree.


    Post edited by sgel on

    ..Cake..

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 3,639
    Lots of posts lately about SC.  If I didn't know better I'd say the troops received their marching orders to stir up interest for upcoming conventions, demos, and ship/vehicle sales but I'm sure it's just a coincidence.
    Yes the lord and Savior Christ Roberts said so, gg
    The discussion burns again as it was instigated, just like the Olympics!

    sgel said:
    MaxBacon said:


    But SC since its pitch want to drive the game-world out of missions that both the players and AI take, so they take this approach but making it dynamic and ofc integrated within the multiple professions they want to add in.

    I have no idea what you're trying to say. It sounds like a bunch of unspecified ideas.


    The emergency beacons is one of those things for quests, if you get your ship destroyed, either you're floating in space or under one escape pod you will activate missions other players can take to rescue you, same for repairing or refueling, that's the nature of emergent play, the bounty hunting as well handled by it and such, one of the things I most care about this, is to create MP content as I dislike games where we just solo through questing all the way.

    That sounds great for the players around the area. What about the player who died?
    He needs to wait until another player accepts the rescue beacon mission?
    You think this is a good gameplay idea?
    There's bounty hunting done well in other MMOS. 
    I'd really like to see how CIG implement it.


    From what is already known of it I think it is enough to give it enough depth, the fact that the more mechanics there are say mining, scanning, salvaging, boarding, etc... the more is there to generate missions for, both on PvE and PvP.

    All theory, let's just wait and see what they do.
    I bet it will be very generic.


    The innovation is the mix of all working together, remember SC's economy itself is driven by missions, so this will be heavy on simulation and dynamic, hence why it's ruled by subsumption (master AI backend manager thing).

    Again, all theory, let's wait and see how it's implemented.
    Eve has been doing this for more than a decade.


    The immersive game drives the RP; I love that, not because I'm a roleplayer (I'm not) because I love when these details are considered that others never do, that is where you feel immersed in your character while playing, to even creating one UI that is merged with the game-world (it's only your 1st person and the game-world), even the death mechanics and all they announced that's all RP driven, you have perm-death but you don't lose things, it's just the RP approach to allow your character to die and your named successor to take ownership, you'll see through the entire game design this is the approach taken, side of world and mechanic design for RP only the first release of the director's mode caused quite the impact as it's perfect for machinima and roleplaying.

    So basically again, fidelity/immersion is all that's needed for an amazing RP game?
    I disagree.


    1) If your ships gets destroyed and you eject yourself, the game by nature will need to have a system to handle that, they do so by these beacons that will generate a mission that players or AI can take, so if a player does not take it then the AI will spawn in, this is what subsumption also is, it creates the mission to rescue you if you alive, if you are not then no mission, if you'd die after the mission is generated then it gets invalidated or something, the thing they need to consider is to not have pirates taking missions to rescue a non-functional ship just to raid it without enforcing severe consequence.

    2) Immersion is the missing part from me on what I've seen in other MMO's before, it creates the base on what can later be backed up by mechanics to improve the experience.

    While you might find silly little things for me are big on that aspect, say them having the comms hail system to render the player's avatar in the other player's ship and/or UI, that together with voice-chat and more extensible controllable facial animations and classic emotes, is something I would find a great bit for RP.

    And yes, we will see how it goes as get to work on it.
    GdemamiZandog
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 12,696


    I wonder how it would be if every game posted details on their daily workings and features.


     I can see them dropping the Dev videos as everyone will be very busy getting ready for live demos to be shown at the conventions.



    Depends on the devs intent,how the game was funded,nothing in this world is simple cut n paste.

    What SC has been doing or better yet Chris Roberts,since he is in charge has made sure we literally know of every line of code they worked on for the day to try and justify TIME.

    Well here is a hint to Mr.Roberts.EVERY game works on code and ideas every day or at least almost everyday barring holidays or emergencies.This reminds me a lot like when Arena.Net was doing the same thing as every other game but figured if they give that same idea a different terminology it made it somehow NEW..UNIQUE.
    Point being SC is not doing anything at all that warrants excuses or long delays,they should have had a MUCH better product out no matter what,finished is not the debate anymore,it is QUALITY for time and money spent and so far SC fails badly.

    In reality not many post their daily workings,it is not at all needed since the average Joe has a somewhat understanding of what goes on to make a game.

    We have seen other inklings of similar on this site,example Crowfall.That team seemed to figure we needed to see every last model/character/spell/ability idea in the game.Yes some in depth discussion is nice but not if your going to post what should be 1-2 threads and turn them into 20 for marketing purposes.
    That is why i said "purpose..agenda..intent ,WHY are they posting this stuff.I actually got a headache watching the one video Roberts posted because all they did every sentence was name a number 2.6...3.1....2.75 but we are working on fixing 2.82 and will be releasing the fix in 3.23 etc etc,it was total nonsense.

    Octagon7711

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • ElderknightElderknight Slc, UTMember UncommonPosts: 210
    IMO, release of 2014 date, and the game is still not out, and they have hired so many ppl to make a game that still isn't even out in 2017 just seems so fishy its like the players gave money for some dude to open 4 companies and is milking them for money, would find it funny if they bring out other games before they release the game that gave them all the cash to even get started, feels bad man for all those gamers that gave up so much $ for nothing.
    Zandog
  • ElderknightElderknight Slc, UTMember UncommonPosts: 210
    One more thing, i was looking for to this game back when it first was announced, now just see it as a joke of a game.
    Zandog
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILMember EpicPosts: 5,326
    Wizardry said:


    I wonder how it would be if every game posted details on their daily workings and features.


     I can see them dropping the Dev videos as everyone will be very busy getting ready for live demos to be shown at the conventions.



    Depends on the devs intent,how the game was funded,nothing in this world is simple cut n paste.

    What SC has been doing or better yet Chris Roberts,since he is in charge has made sure we literally know of every line of code they worked on for the day to try and justify TIME.

    Well here is a hint to Mr.Roberts.EVERY game works on code and ideas every day or at least almost everyday barring holidays or emergencies.This reminds me a lot like when Arena.Net was doing the same thing as every other game but figured if they give that same idea a different terminology it made it somehow NEW..UNIQUE.
    Point being SC is not doing anything at all that warrants excuses or long delays,they should have had a MUCH better product out no matter what,finished is not the debate anymore,it is QUALITY for time and money spent and so far SC fails badly.

    In reality not many post their daily workings,it is not at all needed since the average Joe has a somewhat understanding of what goes on to make a game.

    We have seen other inklings of similar on this site,example Crowfall.That team seemed to figure we needed to see every last model/character/spell/ability idea in the game.Yes some in depth discussion is nice but not if your going to post what should be 1-2 threads and turn them into 20 for marketing purposes.
    That is why i said "purpose..agenda..intent ,WHY are they posting this stuff.I actually got a headache watching the one video Roberts posted because all they did every sentence was name a number 2.6...3.1....2.75 but we are working on fixing 2.82 and will be releasing the fix in 3.23 etc etc,it was total nonsense.

    I was thinking of last time when they had to drop the verticle slice of S42.  The video showed the team told CR they couldn't work on two demos at once as key people were being pulled back and forth and couldn't do both projects at the same time, plus S42 would need a lot more work.  So it seems likely they are working on the live demos and don't want key people to have to stop to make weekly videos.  So they are substituting them with others.  My take on it anyways.

    "Change is the only constant."

  • AethaerynAethaeryn Woodstock, ONMember UncommonPosts: 2,542
    JoeBlober said:

    You are the one who claimed it.
    Where's your proof?
    You aren't lying again are you?
    >




    I think when you make an initial claim it is your job to provide a source.

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • Brown_RecluseBrown_Recluse KetteringMember UncommonPosts: 852

    JoeBlober said:





    People pay a monthly subscription .



    The ARENA you are flying in is nowhere NEAR what C.Roberts promised. He cannot complete games unless someone reigns him in. He has a history of this.









    - About subscription: LIE. There is no subscription. Starter package is 45$ and nobody have to spend one extra cents...


    - About Arena: This is exactly what was sold to backers. Arena Commander, a module to play/test ships combat while others modules are delivered: Star Marine and PU Persistent Universe


    - Chrirs Roberts ALWAYS delivered all his games :) You can try to rewrite history but the guy did not received such pledges support based on "average result". 2M$ pledges every single month and numbers of New backers increasing as well.... Good luck trolling.



    Actually there sub options for the game (although not mandatory). I was reading them last night.
    Both sub options give x number of rec per month and the higher cost sub gives you the ability to fly some of latest ships for a limited time among other perks.

    If I was at home right now I'd log in and screenshot it.
    I'm sure someone else will oblige though.
  • Brown_RecluseBrown_Recluse KetteringMember UncommonPosts: 852

    gir243 said:

    I backed this for $60 when you could still get both SC and SQ42, primarily for SQ42.  I am really trying to get into SC but I have to be honest.....each new white knight that shows up turns me off a little more with each post they make.



    Ditto so did I. There's promise but I can't see any light at the end of the release tunnel yet.

    Feature creep is very real !!
Sign In or Register to comment.