What have "MMOs" become? 40 player max per server is not an MMO....

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 15,047
    Gdemami said:
    Golelorn said:
    I'm surprised this many people care about the semantics of MMO vs coop vs multiplayer.
    Pissing in the wind is one of the favourites on these boards...
    I noticed you do that a lot.
    Jean-Luc_PicardMadFrenchieKyleranCecropia
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  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarreMember EpicPosts: 6,657
    Gun or rifle, who cares... because at the end...

    I'm going down in a blaze of glory
    Take me now but know the truth
    I'm going down in a blaze of glory
    Lord I never drew first
    But I drew first blood
    I'm no one's son
    Call me young gun

    MadFrenchieTorvalKyleranblueturtle13
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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,879
    Torval said:
    But to answer your question a rifle is a gun, but a gun isn't necessarily a rifle.
    Yep, and while a MMO is a multiplayer game, not all multiplayer games are MMOs.

    CecropiaSlapshot1188Torvalblueturtle13

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 15,047
    laserit said:
    Torval said:
    But to answer your question a rifle is a gun, but a gun isn't necessarily a rifle.
    A rifle, a pistol and a cannon all have something in common ;)
    The Second Amendment? :lol:
    Jean-Luc_Picardblueturtle13laseritAelious
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  • HatefullHatefull Member RarePosts: 1,474
    Maurgrim said:
    Any game with more than a 1000 players simultaneous playing on the same server are a MMO, yes playing not in a lobby, are in the same gameworld.
    Sadly these days a game with 64 player limit with a server lobby are also a MMO, wut?

    If this trend continue then the label multiplay wont exist, everything are a MMO.
    Is that your personal opinion of massive? Because mine is different. 

    I am not sure what you are trying to convey with the rest of your post.

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 15,047
    edited August 12
    Kyleran said:
    Torval said:
    But to answer your question a rifle is a gun, but a gun isn't necessarily a rifle.
    Yep, and while a MMO is a multiplayer game, not all multiplayer games are MMOs.

    When mmos get a concrete definition like rifle has then there may be less confusion. The difference here is that MMO is an ambiguous marketing term. A rifle is a concrete object with clearly definable characteristics.

    From wikipedia
    A rifle is a firearm designed to be fired from the shoulder, with a barrel that has a helical groove or pattern of grooves ("rifling") cut into the barrel walls. The raised areas of the rifling are called "lands," which make contact with the projectile (for small arms usage, called a bullet), imparting spin around an axis corresponding to the orientation of the weapon.

    Those are all clearly defined easily measured characteristics. Gaming, mmos, and multiplayer games have very little concrete to work with and a lot of variables that make clear definitions a challenge.

    Post edited by Torval on
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  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,870
    edited August 13
    If we're going to look at what people actually accept as MMOs we're looking at a category that supports Wurm Online, Vendetta, Darkfall, World of Warcraft, EVE, Etc.

    There is no hard number there but we get three clear parameters every game falls under.

    1. An MMO is not defined by how many people are online but by how many people can be online.

    2. That cut-off number is somewhere in the high hundreds / low thousands.

    3. Those people all need to be in one world / server. Lobbies don't count.

    That is the definition of  MMOs that "language has evolved" to see commonly accepted. With the exception of trolls and businesses pushing an agenda very few people accept any other definition as is evident by the games that most people accept as being called MMOs.

    A tiny minority of trolls misusing a term is not evidence of the evolution of language. It's evidence they don't know what the term means.

    Post edited by Eldurian on
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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,659
    Torval said:

    Did you not see the screenshot? That's what is seen. None of those labels are there.
    In the non-mobile version of the site it says MMO games. Then again the mouseover says Best Free MMORPGs. We all know they're not all "FREE" which leads me to think that drawing conclusions from a website tab title is, at best, standing on shaky ground.

    This seems like semantic shuffling anyway.  I can think of several hobbies where only the hardcore enthusiasts trip over details like this. The General Public doesn't care. Just an opinion, not stating it as fact.

    Lol .. using the crippled mobile version as evidence. Not only the non-mobile version says "MMO games", it has a specific label next to each game.


  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,659
    Torval said:
    But to answer your question a rifle is a gun, but a gun isn't necessarily a rifle.
    Not everyone cares about the difference, just like few cares about the difference between a MMO and an online game. Now granted, in the US, probably more people cares about guns than MMOs.
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,304
    nariusseldon said: it
    Torval said:

    Did you not see the screenshot? That's what is seen. None of those labels are there.
    In the non-mobile version of the site it says MMO games. Then again the mouseover says Best Free MMORPGs. We all know they're not all "FREE" which leads me to think that drawing conclusions from a website tab title is, at best, standing on shaky ground.

    This seems like semantic shuffling anyway.  I can think of several hobbies where only the hardcore enthusiasts trip over details like this. The General Public doesn't care. Just an opinion, not stating it as fact.

    Lol .. using the crippled mobile version as evidence. Not only the non-mobile version says "MMO games", it has a specific label next to each game.


    You obviously did not look at the screen shot.
    Torval
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 15,047
    nariusseldon said: it
    Torval said:

    Did you not see the screenshot? That's what is seen. None of those labels are there.
    In the non-mobile version of the site it says MMO games. Then again the mouseover says Best Free MMORPGs. We all know they're not all "FREE" which leads me to think that drawing conclusions from a website tab title is, at best, standing on shaky ground.

    This seems like semantic shuffling anyway.  I can think of several hobbies where only the hardcore enthusiasts trip over details like this. The General Public doesn't care. Just an opinion, not stating it as fact.

    Lol .. using the crippled mobile version as evidence. Not only the non-mobile version says "MMO games", it has a specific label next to each game.


    You obviously did not look at the screen shot.
    Or visited the mobile site and selected game list. I just checked in case it changed. It says "Game List" and then there are buttons for andoid, ios, browser, and free.
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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 15,047
    Torval said:

    Did you not see the screenshot? That's what is seen. None of those labels are there.
    In the non-mobile version of the site it says MMO games. Then again the mouseover says Best Free MMORPGs. We all know they're not all "FREE" which leads me to think that drawing conclusions from a website tab title is, at best, standing on shaky ground.

    This seems like semantic shuffling anyway.  I can think of several hobbies where only the hardcore enthusiasts trip over details like this. The General Public doesn't care. Just an opinion, not stating it as fact.

    Lol .. using the crippled mobile version as evidence. Not only the non-mobile version says "MMO games", it has a specific label next to each game.


    lol... you using it in the first place as some sort of argument is a joke. I was only pointing out the discrepancy in the two sites and why someone wouldn't understand why you would say such a ridiculous thing in the first place.
    CecropiaVengeSunsoar
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  • alivenaliven SzczytnoMember UncommonPosts: 299
    It is not for you to decide what is and what is not MMO. 
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member EpicPosts: 18,213
    The title of this thread is correct.  To be an MMO requires at least 41 players per server.  </sarcasm>
    TorvalJean-Luc_Picard
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,304
    I just say it requires more then than multiplayer and let them argue that one.
    Torval
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 13,190
    Right now a mmo is nothing more than end game,so less than 1% of a game and that is what people are supporting,the rest is a race or if possible ,completely ignore levels 1-90 and just buy an end game character.

    Just having players in a login screen and listing the number of players logged in does not a MO make if you can't actually see the players.The common trend in this end game era is instancing,so you might see 1% of the server,good job on the MMO feel ,lol crappy developers out there right now.
    The sad reality is most games could not handle non instancing and players would likely quit if they can't have it easy mode,instant gratification,so i can't fully blame Blizzard?wow using one example because it is the superficial gamer's who want this instancing end game treadmill,Blizzard is just selling what sells.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,659
    Torval said:
    .

    Lol .. using the crippled mobile version as evidence. Not only the non-mobile version says "MMO games", it has a specific label next to each game.


    lol... you using it in the first place as some sort of argument is a joke. I was only pointing out the discrepancy in the two sites and why someone wouldn't understand why you would say such a ridiculous thing in the first place.

    nah .. the joke is on those who think MMO has to be "massively MP". Isn't it poetic that the sites they discuss MMOs will classify world of tanks as one?
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,659
    I just say it requires more then than multiplayer and let them argue that one.
    I just say people can classify MMOs as whatever they like, and there is little you can do about it. Heck, they just do it without any argument, and they are not likely to listen to people arguing on forums. 
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member RarePosts: 6,304
    edited August 13
    Your right there is very little I can do about anyone's lack of intelligence or critical thinking.
    Post edited by VengeSunsoar on
    TorvalJean-Luc_PicardCecropia
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,659
    Your right there is very little I can do about anyone's lack of intelligence or critical thinking.
    Nah .. those can be taught.

    But apathy? I think the lack of critical thinking here is to assume if you yell loud enough, people will care enough to listen. 

  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INMember RarePosts: 5,437
    I wouldnt say MMOs have become 40 player lobby games, but have been replaced by 40 player lobby games.
    Tuor7
  • HeyYouVideoGameHeyYouVideoGame Member UncommonPosts: 22
    techinally, it is a MMO just not a HUGE MMO
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthMember EpicPosts: 4,286
    techinally, it is a MMO just not a HUGE MMO
    They're kind of hybrids. Bigger than standard mp games, but smaller in scale than classic mmo's. Still, even on an mmo you generally aren't doing content with more players than that anyway. Dungeon groups are much smaller. Raid groups are smaller. Pvp instances are smaller. You've basically got all the players you need to have a good time in an environment that's much more interactive than the average mmo's. This obsession with numbers is a bit silly imo.

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  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,659

    They're kind of hybrids. Bigger than standard mp games, but smaller in scale than classic mmo's. Still, even on an mmo you generally aren't doing content with more players than that anyway. Dungeon groups are much smaller. Raid groups are smaller. Pvp instances are smaller. You've basically got all the players you need to have a good time in an environment that's much more interactive than the average mmo's. This obsession with numbers is a bit silly imo.
    In fact, it is not a coincidence that most gameplay in MMOs, even WoW, does not involve "massively multiplayer". As you have pointed out raid & dungeons are pretty much small group gameplay.

    In fact, the "world" is pretty much just a 3D lobby at end game. You may as well be playing a diablo-like game. 
  • LuftwaffenLuftwaffen Davenport, IAMember UncommonPosts: 74
     they are simply multiplayer games that self identify as an MMO!
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