This has been beat to death. The term massive in MMO is the problem. There is not a finite number attached to it so people can randomly assign whatever number they want to it. Yes all the games are multiplayer and online, all can agree with that. So until they put an actual number for the term massive in the dictionary it will always be subjective and not an objective idea.
For me personally I see the number as any number above a 1000 because I am an older gamer and that was around the number most considered when I started gaming. So if the game has less than that playing at one time on a server to me it is a multiplayer game.
The argument would come up what if the game had 999 people it isn't an MMO? Well if there were a finite number assigned and it was 1000 then no it wouldn't be. So until the time that it has a number assigned who really cares.
people really dont. They just use this as an excuse to tell you how shitty a game is. Bottom line is that the game is shitty.
be careful here .. you have not seen those who argue until their faces are blue that MMO has to be "massively multiplayer"?
They will pull up dictionaries, wiki, age old quotes from has-been developers, and probably gospels from Jesus Christ himself to show you that they have the authority to change how the whole internet use a simple 3 letters "MMO".
Funny though ... not even the OP of this website listens to them ...
HUH?
Your argument is that MMO doesn't mean Massively Multiplayer Online?
Thats just... unique!
Actually his argument as I understand it is since so many use it incorrectly and call games MMOs which clearly aren't (this site being one of the offenders) at what point does it fail to matter?
Sadly he's not unique in being wrong but as with others here I feel precision in terms is important and worth maintaining in this case.
But MMO literally is an acronym meaning Massively Multiplayer Online... it's like claiming ATM doesn't mean automated teller machine...
Thats a bizarre argument.
Wait... whut??!! ATM does not mean All That Money?....
/Cheers, Lahnmir
'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
There's another problem: That first 'M' in MMO used to stand for 'Massively', not 'Massive'.
'Massive Multi-player Online Game' implies the game itself is massive.
'MassiveLY Multi-player Online Game' implies the number of players that you can expect to encounter/players per server is massive.
And before anyone says it, yes, it is the number of players you can expect to encounter/players per server, because no one would ever describe CS:GO as an MMO, yet it is played by massive amounts of people at the same time.
There's another problem: That first 'M' in MMO used to stand for 'Massively', not 'Massive'.
'Massive Multi-player Online Game' implies the game itself is massive.
'MassiveLY Multi-player Online Game' implies the number of players that you can expect to encounter/players per server is massive.
And before anyone says it, yes, it is the number of players you can expect to encounter/players per server, because no one would ever describe CS:GO as an MMO, yet it is played by massive amounts of people at the same time.
The first M in MMO still stands for Massively, not Massive, and while CS:GO could be said to be played by a 'massive' (which isn't even a number) number of people, so is minesweeper, and CS:GO isn't claiming to be, or classed as an MMO, its just an Online Game, a multiplayer one at that, but there is no way you can class it as being an MMO, no matter how you creatively reinterpret the word Massively. Massively Multiplayer is not two seperate concepts, just one, its multiplayer but on a 'massive scale' hence the Massively Multiplayer title, and while you can class games that have a 100 or so players as being multiplayer, it isn't massively multiplayer, which usually involves thousands of players, or at least several hundreds of players that are able to play together in the same game, and while games that are heavily instanced or use megaservers do muddy the waters a bit when it comes to the number of players that can play together, they still enable several hundreds of players to play together, although games such as SW:TOR which has i think a 250 player limit per instance, is a bit borderline, and open to question whether the game is really an MMORPG, or an MORPG. However you call it though, MMO is shortform for Massively Multiplayer Online.
Why are all these new games coming out (many are cloning ARK's sandbox theme, others are unique. But WHY are they being labeled MMO/MMORPGs? If a server can only hold 20-180 people, it is NOT an MMO.
There are some benefits (no gold farmers) but it splits the community up into hundreds of servers, and only if you have friends to play with or find friends in game to group up with then its a 1 vs 19-179 multiplayer game, not an MMO.
Any thoughts
I agree with the fact that when i think MMO i think servers with thousands and thousands of people running around in a world at the same time.
But what have MMO's really turned into ? anymore they are just solo games with a story ark quest chain and you group with a few people here and there for raids that you can just que up for. all in all you probably only interact with a hand full of people that you WANT to interact with, everybody else is just in your way.
I have seen communities of helpful people in these smaller server sandbox games. i have seen people working together to build huge structures and gather resources to survive. to me its what MMO's should of evolved into but on a larger scale.
The game list literally just says game list. It doesnt say MMO game list just game list. I have no problem with classifying them as games.
Apparently you are not very good at reading. You don't see the column "Genre" with the labels MMOTPS, action MMO being used?
You don't see on top, the title of the page is "MMORPG Games - All MMO Games"?
Did you not see the screenshot? That's what is seen. None of those labels are there.
In the non-mobile version of the site it says MMO games. Then again the mouseover says Best Free MMORPGs. We all know they're not all "FREE" which leads me to think that drawing conclusions from a website tab title is, at best, standing on shaky ground.
This seems like semantic shuffling anyway. I can think of several hobbies where only the hardcore enthusiasts trip over details like this. The General Public doesn't care. Just an opinion, not stating it as fact.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Any game with more than a 1000 players simultaneous playing on the same server are a MMO, yes playing not in a lobby, are in the same gameworld. Sadly these days a game with 64 player limit with a server lobby are also a MMO, wut?
If this trend continue then the label multiplay wont exist, everything are a MMO.
Is that your personal opinion of massive? Because mine is different.
I am not sure what you are trying to convey with the rest of your post.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
If we're going to look at what people actually accept as MMOs we're looking at a category that supports Wurm Online, Vendetta, Darkfall, World of Warcraft, EVE, Etc.
There is no hard number there but we get three clear parameters every game falls under.
1. An MMO is not defined by how many people are online but by how many people can be online.
2. That cut-off number is somewhere in the high hundreds / low thousands.
3. Those people all need to be in one world / server. Lobbies don't count.
That is the definition of MMOs that "language has evolved" to see commonly accepted. With the exception of trolls and businesses pushing an agenda very few people accept any other definition as is evident by the games that most people accept as being called MMOs.
A tiny minority of trolls misusing a term is not evidence of the evolution of language. It's evidence they don't know what the term means.
Did you not see the screenshot? That's what is seen. None of those labels are there.
In the non-mobile version of the site it says MMO games. Then again the mouseover says Best Free MMORPGs. We all know they're not all "FREE" which leads me to think that drawing conclusions from a website tab title is, at best, standing on shaky ground.
This seems like semantic shuffling anyway. I can think of several hobbies where only the hardcore enthusiasts trip over details like this. The General Public doesn't care. Just an opinion, not stating it as fact.
Lol .. using the crippled mobile version as evidence. Not only the non-mobile version says "MMO games", it has a specific label next to each game.
But to answer your question a rifle is a gun, but a gun isn't necessarily a rifle.
Not everyone cares about the difference, just like few cares about the difference between a MMO and an online game.
Now granted, in the US, probably more people cares about guns than MMOs.
Did you not see the screenshot? That's what is seen. None of those labels are there.
In the non-mobile version of the site it says MMO games. Then again the mouseover says Best Free MMORPGs. We all know they're not all "FREE" which leads me to think that drawing conclusions from a website tab title is, at best, standing on shaky ground.
This seems like semantic shuffling anyway. I can think of several hobbies where only the hardcore enthusiasts trip over details like this. The General Public doesn't care. Just an opinion, not stating it as fact.
Lol .. using the crippled mobile version as evidence. Not only the non-mobile version says "MMO games", it has a specific label next to each game.
You obviously did not look at the screen shot.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Comments
I'm a MUDder. I play MUDs.
Current: Dragonrealms
For me personally I see the number as any number above a 1000 because I am an older gamer and that was around the number most considered when I started gaming. So if the game has less than that playing at one time on a server to me it is a multiplayer game.
The argument would come up what if the game had 999 people it isn't an MMO? Well if there were a finite number assigned and it was 1000 then no it wouldn't be. So until the time that it has a number assigned who really cares.
/Cheers,
Lahnmir
Kyleran on yours sincerely
'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'
Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...
'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless.
It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.
It is just huge resource waste....'
Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer
'Massive Multi-player Online Game' implies the game itself is massive.
'MassiveLY Multi-player Online Game' implies the number of players that you can expect to encounter/players per server is massive.
And before anyone says it, yes, it is the number of players you can expect to encounter/players per server, because no one would ever describe CS:GO as an MMO, yet it is played by massive amounts of people at the same time.
You don't see on top, the title of the page is "MMORPG Games - All MMO Games"?
However you call it though, MMO is shortform for Massively Multiplayer Online.
But what have MMO's really turned into ? anymore they are just solo games with a story ark quest chain and you group with a few people here and there for raids that you can just que up for. all in all you probably only interact with a hand full of people that you WANT to interact with, everybody else is just in your way.
I have seen communities of helpful people in these smaller server sandbox games. i have seen people working together to build huge structures and gather resources to survive. to me its what MMO's should of evolved into but on a larger scale.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I am not sure what you are trying to convey with the rest of your post.
If you want a new idea, go read an old book.
In order to be insulted, I must first value your opinion.
There is no hard number there but we get three clear parameters every game falls under.
1. An MMO is not defined by how many people are online but by how many people can be online.
2. That cut-off number is somewhere in the high hundreds / low thousands.
3. Those people all need to be in one world / server. Lobbies don't count.
That is the definition of MMOs that "language has evolved" to see commonly accepted. With the exception of trolls and businesses pushing an agenda very few people accept any other definition as is evident by the games that most people accept as being called MMOs.
A tiny minority of trolls misusing a term is not evidence of the evolution of language. It's evidence they don't know what the term means.
Lol .. using the crippled mobile version as evidence. Not only the non-mobile version says "MMO games", it has a specific label next to each game.