What have "MMOs" become? 40 player max per server is not an MMO....

AtheaAthea Niagara Falls, ONMember UncommonPosts: 79
Why are all these new games coming out (many are cloning ARK's sandbox theme, others are unique. But WHY are they being labeled MMO/MMORPGs? If a server can only hold 20-180 people, it is NOT an MMO.

There are some benefits (no gold farmers) but it splits the community up into hundreds of servers, and only if you have friends to play with or find friends in game to group up with then its a 1 vs 19-179 multiplayer game, not an MMO.

Any thoughts
Is a 20-180 server max multiplayer game an MMO?
  1. Is a 20-180 server max multiplayer game an MMO?124 votes
    1. Yes
      16.13%
    2. No
      83.87%
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Comments

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 3,735
    They Havent , those are Not MMOs
    Gdemami
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078
    Scorchien said:
    They Havent , those are Not MMOs
    maybe if he had an exact example of a game title that is 'listed' and where it is listed as such before we claim to know specifically either way?
    ysn888

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 1,806
    I dunno. I tried playing Istaria (that MMO with a playable dragon) and it had far less people on than most of the popular Ark servers. Minecraft MMO server has far more people playing it than Istaria. istaria literally had 35 people in chat, maybe a few off but super low amount.

    How is that even considered massive at that point?
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  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 744
    edited August 3
    Any game with more than a 1000 players simultaneous playing on the same server are a MMO, yes playing not in a lobby, are in the same gameworld.
    Sadly these days a game with 64 player limit with a server lobby are also a MMO, wut?

    If this trend continue then the label multiplay wont exist, everything are a MMO.
    Post edited by Maurgrim on
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078
    can someone give me a game title that has a max of less than 100 that is labeled as an MMO please?

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  • blorpykinsblorpykins Member UncommonPosts: 240



    Shroud of the Avatar calls itself a MMO.

    Parties can't be more than eight players in size; and combat goes all wonky with only a dozen players in a scene, and with twenty players in a scene just standing around, crafting or emoting screens lock up completely; it's a shitshow.

    Here's what Portalarium's Community Manager Berek has to say about it:

    " For marketing, sometimes its best to go with shorter statements... "MMO" of course doesn't entirely describe our game, but sometimes it's the word of choice to use in short advertisements and the like. Don't look into it too much when we use it for these purposes. The design of the game itself and the direction of its development will be your statement of what the game is about, not some word on a piece of paper. "






    Gdemami
  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 744
    SEANMCAD said:
    can someone give me a game title that has a max of less than 100 that is labeled as an MMO please?
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  • WoeToTheVanquishedWoeToTheVanquished USA #1, ILMember UncommonPosts: 147
    I have had a lot of fun on private servers with +/-100 players. Sometimes it's better for a game to have open space with moderate population.
    TorvalTokkenimmodium
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 1,806
    SEANMCAD said:
    can someone give me a game title that has a max of less than 100 that is labeled as an MMO please?
    As said in the above post. Istaria, had 35 people in chat, to be safe 40 at most

    Ryzom also has very few people playing, though a lot more than Istaria but not sure how much. Ryzom far more active, but probably had 100-200 people playing and anything in that number is pretty good.

    I've played many older indie MMOs, and most are pretty active. Istaria is the main example I can think of, its labeled as an MMO but very dead and has far less people playing than any of the survival sandbox games.

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  • SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News Manager The CitadelMMORPG.COM Staff EpicPosts: 24,787
    With the increasing amount of instanced content in MMOs, a lot of what are considered "traditional" MMOs are falling into this trap. I dunno. I figure if there are a lot of people playing so the world feels alive, that's MMO-enough for me. :D I guess I'm not so picky about definitions since the lines are blurring right now. When the next "big thing" comes along, perhaps that will change. Till then, I guess I just don't care. :D
    TorvalHawkaya399Hatefull


  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078
    SEANMCAD said:
    can someone give me a game title that has a max of less than 100 that is labeled as an MMO please?
    As said in the above post. Istaria, had 35 people in chat, to be safe 40 at most

    Ryzom also has very few people playing, though a lot more than Istaria but not sure how much. Ryzom far more active, but probably had 100-200 people playing and anything in that number is pretty good.

    I've played many older indie MMOs, and most are pretty active. Istaria is the main example I can think of, its labeled as an MMO but very dead and has far less people playing than any of the survival sandbox games.
    that is not the same thing.

    we need to look for a game that has a player cap possible of less than 100. Not a game that only has 100 player playing. 

    big difference
    ScorchienMadFrenchieAsch126

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  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 3,735
    I dunno. I tried playing Istaria (that MMO with a playable dragon) and it had far less people on than most of the popular Ark servers. Minecraft MMO server has far more people playing it than Istaria. istaria literally had 35 people in chat, maybe a few off but super low amount.

    How is that even considered massive at that point?
    Silly at best ... picking out a 15 year old MMO for your example is weak ..Fact is tho that Istaria and can support Thousands if the players wanted to play it .. Ark .CANT /... You understand i hope
    GdemamiCaffynated
  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 3,735
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    can someone give me a game title that has a max of less than 100 that is labeled as an MMO please?
    As said in the above post. Istaria, had 35 people in chat, to be safe 40 at most

    Ryzom also has very few people playing, though a lot more than Istaria but not sure how much. Ryzom far more active, but probably had 100-200 people playing and anything in that number is pretty good.

    I've played many older indie MMOs, and most are pretty active. Istaria is the main example I can think of, its labeled as an MMO but very dead and has far less people playing than any of the survival sandbox games.
    that is not the same thing.

    we need to look for a game that has a player cap possible of less than 100. Not a game that only has 100 player playing. 

    big difference
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  • KnightFalzKnightFalz Member UncommonPosts: 77
    What difference does it make... 1,000 concurrent players is just as arbitrary as 64. You gather 64 players together to play a game at your place and it will be plenty massive enough.

    The point being, games vary widely in scope, not only in the terms of the size and layout of the play areas, but in the variety and complexity of the interactions between players and the environment they play within.

    The nature of the game is what will determine the population that makes it effectively massive, not some arbitrary number chosen just because.
    SBFordTorvalTokkenKyleranAsch126
  • Tuor7Tuor7 Bellevue, WAMember UncommonPosts: 756
    Yeah, the OP is talking about games *designed* to handle thousands of people on a single server. That ability is where the MM part originated: massively multiplayer. The MUDs of the previous generation literally couldn't handle that many people on a server. Most couldn't handle more than a couple of hundred. IIRC, EQ's servers could handle a couple of thousand simultaneous connections per server, and WoW's could handle around 3-4K per server, though it's been so long now that I might be a bit off on those numbers.
    Gdemami
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078
    edited August 3
    What difference does it make... 1,000 concurrent players is just as arbitrary as 64. You gather 64 players together to play a game at your place and it will be plenty massive enough.

    The point being, games vary widely in scope, not only in the terms of the size and layout of the play areas, but in the variety and complexity of the interactions between players and the environment they play within.

    The nature of the game is what will determine the population that makes it effectively massive, not some arbitrary number chosen just because.
    and this is also true.

    Dunbar's numbers brings it more home as fact then just opinion.

    You have a set number of people you can realistically maintain a social relationship with. This is basically because of finite time and how much our brains can maintain. This would include ALL social relationships, so at 150 (which is the number they suggest) that would include all your real life realtionships + your in game relationships

    Everyone else outside of that is in effect 'living NPCs'. However, in an MMO filled with thousands of players those 'living NPCs' are jumping around the cities having their own pew pew fights and getting in your face out of boredom. They are NOT doing things that make sense in the context of the city itself like getting laundry done.

    I have currently been playing a game called Kingdoms and it has AI that roam round and 'fill' the world. but they are doing things that make sense that a real life player would likely not do all the time. Like farming, walking to market etc.

    So as a result the world can actually feel MORE alive with less players if done right.

    Post edited by SEANMCAD on
    SBFordVelifax

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  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 3,735
    SEANMCAD said:
    can someone give me a game title that has a max of less than 100 that is labeled as an MMO please?
    Steam Labels Dark and Light MMO ... 70 max per server
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078
    Scorchien said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    can someone give me a game title that has a max of less than 100 that is labeled as an MMO please?
    Steam Labels Dark and Light MMO ... 70 max per server
    GREAT! then you being the first person to reply to the OP replied incorrectly.

    He was not arguing that they are in fact MMOs he was asking why are they labeled as such. your reply was:

    'They Havent , those are Not MMOs '
    Read more at http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/467246/what-have-mmos-become-40-player-max-per-server-is-not-an-mmo#sEp2A4ZpbbkcmAws.99

    do you want to re-consider that reply?
    Gdemami

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 13,739
    SBFord said:
    With the increasing amount of instanced content in MMOs, a lot of what are considered "traditional" MMOs are falling into this trap. I dunno. I figure if there are a lot of people playing so the world feels alive, that's MMO-enough for me. :D I guess I'm not so picky about definitions since the lines are blurring right now. When the next "big thing" comes along, perhaps that will change. Till then, I guess I just don't care. :D
    You nailed it. It's also not a one sized fits all question and answer. It depends on the game and how player interaction works.

    For me Secret World Legends still feels like an MMO. I only see a few people ever (10) in a game zone. I can group with more people in dungeons and raids. I was in a 40 person public raid last night. Chat has tons of people in it, too many sometimes. They stopped calling it an mmorpg though and call it a shared world action RPG. Does it matter?

    Albion went the other direction. We're all jammed in the same small area at once. It sucks and reminds me why I hated when some servers and cities got overcrowded. It's not immersive or cool. It's lame. And what did that team do? They instanced the bank and auction hall separately to pull down focused server load.

    There's a right population density for any game. There needs to be enough people to add that energy but not so many that it's ridiculous. The marketing labels are mostly irrelevant to me.
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  • BitterClingerBitterClinger Newark, DEMember UncommonPosts: 401
    I voted that these games are not MMOs, but I don't care about them being called MMOs. The industry vernacular has not caught up with this trend of instanced multiplayer online games and lobby-based multiplayer online games. Back in the day, we used to specifically designate these games MORPGs; but that trend never caught on. Games that supported just about any kind of multiplayer content were categorized as MMOs or MMORPGs more specifically.
  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 3,735
    SEANMCAD said:
    Scorchien said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    can someone give me a game title that has a max of less than 100 that is labeled as an MMO please?
    Steam Labels Dark and Light MMO ... 70 max per server
    GREAT! then you being the first person to reply to the OP replied incorrectly.

    He was not arguing that they are in fact MMOs he was asking why are they labeled as such. your reply was:

    'They Havent , those are Not MMOs '
    Read more at http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/467246/what-have-mmos-become-40-player-max-per-server-is-not-an-mmo#sEp2A4ZpbbkcmAws.99

    do you want to re-consider that reply?
    umm No .. like i said they are not MMOs imo, which part dont you get
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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078
    here is where I differ and yet agree as well

    Purely from a game play experience stand point I experience nearly zero difference between an MMO an a large private server game.

    HOWEVER, private server games have existed for as long as MMOs have and over the course of that 20 years or so they have never been refered to as an MMO. but now we want to, I dont like that. That sounds like marketing manipulation to me
    GdemamiKyleranAthea

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  • AmatheAmathe Miami, FLMember RarePosts: 2,846
    180 is not "massively" unless it is a tabulation of prior love interests. Think Clerks

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  • KellerKeller UtrechtMember UncommonPosts: 391
    has there ever been activities for 100+ players in a mmo? Players spend most of their time with 4 others in dungeons or 9 others in raid instances? Rift tried to do the zone events, but switched to dungeons as their core entertainment. GW2 had the world raid bosses, but your instance would be full. Organized groups would jump all together at the last minute to the server of the day. Pvp in GW2 or ESO, when encountering a group over 10, omg they are zerging us. 40 players per server, I still would call it a mmo, as any of that 40 can be replaced by a 1000 others. I can't play with them all at same time any way, so cause extra lag for players who are just there to give me the impression the game is "crowded".
    SBFord
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078
    edited August 3
    Scorchien said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Scorchien said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    can someone give me a game title that has a max of less than 100 that is labeled as an MMO please?
    Steam Labels Dark and Light MMO ... 70 max per server
    GREAT! then you being the first person to reply to the OP replied incorrectly.

    He was not arguing that they are in fact MMOs he was asking why are they labeled as such. your reply was:

    'They Havent , those are Not MMOs '
    Read more at http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/467246/what-have-mmos-become-40-player-max-per-server-is-not-an-mmo#sEp2A4ZpbbkcmAws.99

    do you want to re-consider that reply?
    umm No .. like i said they are not MMOs imo, which part dont you get
    but he never said they were and in effect he agrees with you.

    he said: 'why are these games being called MMOs'

    you said: 'they are not'

    reality is they are being called that

    see?

    read every word he said in your OP, then read your first response, then think about it
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on
    Gdemami

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