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Rufus D`Asperdi - since i'm a whale i can derail all i want
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I wasn't STAFF pre-AoS. I didn't say I didn't PLAY before AoS. I actually did, though.
Are you not even capable of understanding you've just changed your argument 180 degrees in two posts? First you questioned a claim I never made; that I was staff pre-AoS. Then you say I never even played pre-AoS, which obviously I must have done if, as you first thought, I was saying I was staff then.
Honestly, do you really not see how tangled up your thought processes are?
That's why I'm not responding to what you said. Because frankly, it's utter bollocks. You've no idea what people are even saying to you, let alone what you think you're arguing for.
The difference between you and I is, you're not addressing anything I say, because you are incapable of doing so. You warp everything back to your own perspective and only argue from within that comfort blanket, because you desperately need to believe in the wider assumptions.
Yet no one sane would EVER have thought Shroud was going to be Full Loot PK like pre-Ren. They might as well have promised you a perpetual motion machine. The blame for encouraging you is still theirs, but believing it just made you the mirror image of the Shroud Cult.
Where as I'm not just far more clued in, I'm also widely educated and recognise a Gish Gallop when I see one. Hilariously, the RationalWiki has an associated image that isn't intentionally, but is accidentally closely related; p v ¬p.
And I don't want to play either game, thank you. The majority of people never do. And no amount of galloping changes that.
I can understand you have a hard time answering my simple question since you dont have any answer that would make any sense.
H1Z1 with today +100000 playing ingame same time also have a minor setback upon death. You have to wait abit and loose the good gear you had found. Pretty much similar to the full loot setting of UO Renaissance.
Tell me why such a MMO game won't work today when other full loot games like H1Z1 work?
Both games have pretty much the similar punish upon death.
Why these H1Z1 players wouldn' want to try out a full loot game in old felucca settings is still unanswered. You avoid answering why and i can understand you have a hard time making up a story for that that make any sense.
Now answer this simple question or we just have to agree having different opinions on how big the full loot community of today really is and that they would love a MMO game with a setting like UO Renaissance if it was offered.
I think +100000 playing ingame same time in H1Z1 say alot about the interest for risk vs reward games with consequences as full loot.
And the 124 (lol) that play SotA online same time isnt what i would call an impressive number, what do you say?
Seems to me Garriott tried to please the wrong type of community. A bad business decision.
What community do you think RG pleased? It's a crappy game that made no one happy your argument is nonsense.
That is what people like you don't understand.
You just need some poor excuse as it isn't a RPG or a MMO and for that reason they would not like the same features in a MMO. A poor attempt to fit your agenda that full loot MMO games won't work.
They would love a MMO with same features as UO Renaissance. Just love it.
h1z1 KotH is a short session battle royal more like CS:GO.
there is no persistence to the loot in that game because after 30-45 minutes its all wiped anyways when the match ends, so using it as an example to support your assertion that there is a huge market for full loot pvp MMOs is dubious at best.
. . .just an fwi
Players that like full loot PvP have been proven again and again to be a niche, if it was other wise the market would respond and there would be more, tilting at windmills and filling multi threads about "Game XXX would be awesome with full loot" , wont make that happen.....EVER.
IF anything spraying yellow liquid into the wind only weakens the argument further as vitriol displayed by a number of the "Full Lootz" crowd only goes to harden the impression of that type by people not interested or would think about having ago to thinking its just for toxic people, which isn't of course true, but 80% people are just happy with PvP in itself.
As a long time Eve player I hear both arguments almost daily, as Eve itself sits in a halfway house between the 2 PvP styles of genre. My opinion is PvP is exciting, if its the full loot making it exciting then the PvP game is more than likely a bit crap, PvP is Pvp the full loot is a thing that should not detract from the thrill of the engagement.
It is risk vs reward even though i agree the game is a shorter one. It is consequences during gameplay. It is full loot during the gameplay session.
Players that like those features would not see same features in a MMO game as a problem. Rather the opposite.
Sure some of the players playing H1Z1 today would not like to invest the time needed in a MMO but many that never played H1Z1 but like these kind of features would love to try it out.
What is important is that such a MMO must be consensual PvP and there have to be harsh penalties to PK:s like it was with statloss in felucca. Without it it will just be like Darkfall - a failure.
Cities also need to be guarded zones.
Albion on the other hand is an RPG and one of the top streamers wanted to play it due to it being PvP and having full loot, he didn't care if it was FPs or not, but he did stop playing due to it being a super grind, but if this wasn't the case, what do you think would happen?
Overall point being, people are a lot more willing to play and try full loot pvp games regardless if it's FPS or an RPG. I think if done correctly, we could potential see a full loot PvP Rpg do well and no longer be seen as niche, imho it's already past being niche.
In this day and age it's a possibility.
they do care if their loot that they've worked for days/weeks/months is taken by a ganking butthole. . .
so no, the thrill is not the same.
there is a reason why H1Z1 just survive has 100's of players currently and H1Z1 KotH has over 100,000.
if you refuse to see that you have some serious blinders on. . .
Also I think a lot of you approaching this from a themepark style of gearing where you spend weeks obtaining one set of gear, but in fact you would probably spend those weeks in a full loot game creating and having serval sets of gear/materials stored up in your bank, think rust, so if you do get ganked you can gear up straight away and get back in the action. Tbh this is how most persistent full loot games work.
I've never played rust, but I have spent a lot of hours in ark and conan exiles, and in those games it is very easy to get "base wiped" by a mega clan that is leagues above you. it's a lot harder to rebuild. . .
In Renaissance you reequipped under 2 minutes and were back in action fast.
Reason was that players had backup gear in their bank and crafters were the one's that provided it. A player could easily afford 5-6 sets of GM made armor and often 50-100 GM or magic weapons in bank or house. Kegs of potions were created by alchemists and all PvP players had usually a couple of each in bank or house. Each keg had 100 potions in them.
Premade paraboxes were also something that made restocking alot faster.
Regs was also kept in bank or house.
The main difference i see btw a game like H1Z1 and the MMO version of it is that it take more time to train your character but when he or she is fully trained the PvP game is pretty much the same.
Loosing easily replacable gear is not something that make you rage quit.
Don't see games like old UO Renaissance as a game that force you to collect gear for weeks and then loose it all in 5 seconds. You bought new gear from NPC vendors that crafters provided outside their houses. And it was cheap.
Same with getting gold, kill a couple of dragons and you had money for several sets of armor. Same time you could be lucky to find some magic gear and also meet a PK that were out hunting.=)
Lets say the PK killed you, then restock in under 2 minutes and go back for revenge, maybe even communicate with a friend to make you have the advantage.
Such scenarios happened all the time in that old UO game and it was usually small scale PvP fights where the most skilled player won, it was not as it is in many games today that the player with the best gear usually wins.
It was also huge factions fights with +50 players on each faction fighting it out.
You avoided my statement that noone got a good game and it had nothing to do with it being a Full loot or not.
Add all other UO features at that time and it was far from boring.
I didn't like UO...it's story sucked....it didn't feel like ultima to me at all. That it was good for you is great, but don't assume the majority loves what you do. That's a horrible argument to use.
EDIT: Once again ignoring the real problem...it's hard to discuss things with you guys as you tend to get tunnel vision and ignore things that you don't want to answer as it destroys the whole basis of your argument.
If this game had been kickstarted as a full loot leet game I would not have backed. Hell if it was kickstarted as it turned out I also would not have backed.
They never mentioned full loot or not during kickstarter, it was not a no or a yes. Same with anything about PvP system, combat system or death system. That was to be settled later on.
I respect your point of view Rune but i think you need to see it from the other side also.
Garriott made a teaser for the old UO PvP players when he called SotA a "spiritual successor to Ultima Online". That was the reason why i invested i think it was 45$.
Why many old PvP players thought full loot was possible was cause developers told funders during kickstarter and after they would have a bar players could raise or lower that would make the game less or more PvP hardcore.
If you turned that bar all the way towards hardcore PvP no developers informed that it was not going to be full loot, they just hadnt decided yet what the most hardcore version of PvP should be.
Garriott tricked alot of old UO PvP players to invest in something that they would never have invested in if he had been more truthful about his intentions.
His made up name on a forum is the target not his real life name.
The point of the thread was to show how different people get treated differently depending on how much real life money they invested.
Hopefully most people learned their lesson, but clearly there are still a few whales there who haven't. Unless the "old school UO" those remaining whales wanted to fund was the one that allowed mass RMT and Markee Dragon (...which almost every version of Old School UO did, actually).
You used the guys (forum) name in the title. You're "attacking" someone on a forum, he might never ever visit. Lets assume you're right, how is he going to receive the message you're sending? Go after him on the SOTA forums and leave his name away on this forum. When people follow your link, they will pick up the name. Now it's just naming & shaming.
Also it would mean we could never link post or info on here as it exposes their forum name. I agree, maybe not include he's name in the title, but there's nothing wrong with sharing a forum post. Tbh It's more in-game names people don't like being shared, but if you post on a public forum it's fair game imho