(theory) The MMO community overall is driving more and more people to want a solo only experience

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  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXMember EpicPosts: 5,005
    edited July 25
    MMO's have been soloable since EQ and will continue to have / offer solo content. MMO's have never, nor will they ever force group content on players 24/7. Most MMO's forced group content revolves around dungeons, whether it's 3 man, 5 man, 10 man or more for party requirements. You will never have an MMO that is 100% solo friendly just like you won't find an MMO that is 100% forced grouping.
    Post edited by Rhoklaw on

  • EldurianEldurian Member RarePosts: 1,412
    Vardahoth said:


    @Vardahoth - I see you post a lot of really long rants by YouTube commentators. Lots of them. This is at least the third one.

    Not all of them are bad. Not all of them bring up invalid points. But I'm going to make my own little observation about internet culture.

    One of our friends (Much younger than you and even me) also likes to listen to a lot of long rants complaining about various games, and how gaming has been ruined in various ways. And what we discovered was when we invited him into our guild... he whined about everything constantly on Teamspeak. The rest of the guild hated him and even though this is a guy we hang out with IRL we found him to be pretty damn annoying online too. Pretty much everyone was tired of him griping about everything.

    And that sort of got me noticing. Almost everyone you meet who holds much stock in people who like to get on YouTube to complain seems to develop this complex where they think it's endearing to be a complainer. To constantly find the negative in everything and pick it to pieces to everyone around you.

    I would say you are no exception to the rule. If your signature wasn't enough of a give away then the fact your signature is mimicked in your every post would be. Constantly complaining is not an endearing trait and it doesn't endear you to those around you. Complaining sometimes yes, it can be a good way to bond with people who share your frustrations, but not constantly. There has to be some kind of balance. 

    If I were you, I'd spend a lot less time listening to YouTubers gripe about things you hate, and a lot more time enjoying things you love. Because the path you are on right now seems to be one of a bitter man growing increasingly older while failing to make any real connections with anyone around them.

    Maybe if you can hook into a group based on common likes rather than common dislikes you can  form a tight group of friends who won't kick you out of dungeons.
    holdenfiveTorvalCazrielKalebGraysonKyleranRufusUORusque
  • VardahothVardahoth Temecula, CAMember RarePosts: 1,461
    Eldurian said:
    Vardahoth said:


    @Vardahoth - I see you post a lot of really long rants by YouTube commentators. Lots of them. This is at least the third one.

    Not all of them are bad. Not all of them bring up invalid points. But I'm going to make my own little observation about internet culture.

    One of our friends (Much younger than you and even me) also likes to listen to a lot of long rants complaining about various games, and how gaming has been ruined in various ways. And what we discovered was when we invited him into our guild... he whined about everything constantly on Teamspeak. The rest of the guild hated him and even though this is a guy we hang out with IRL we found him to be pretty damn annoying online too. Pretty much everyone was tired of him griping about everything.

    And that sort of got me noticing. Almost everyone you meet who holds much stock in people who like to get on YouTube to complain seems to develop this complex where they think it's endearing to be a complainer. To constantly find the negative in everything and pick it to pieces to everyone around you.

    I would say you are no exception to the rule. If your signature wasn't enough of a give away then the fact your signature is mimicked in your every post would be. Constantly complaining is not an endearing trait and it doesn't endear you to those around you. Complaining sometimes yes, it can be a good way to bond with people who share your frustrations, but not constantly. There has to be some kind of balance. 

    If I were you, I'd spend a lot less time listening to YouTubers gripe about things you hate, and a lot more time enjoying things you love. Because the path you are on right now seems to be one of a bitter man growing increasingly older while failing to make any real connections with anyone around them.

    Maybe if you can hook into a group based on common likes rather than common dislikes you can  form a tight group of friends who won't kick you out of dungeons.
    yeah... and this is the conversation I just had with a friend (or as you would call them "connection") before checking these forums today...



    So it's not just me who brings up the points on how bad video games have gotten over time. It's many people. And the reason I post "a lot" of video's, is because these video's bring up points to answer the questions of all these threads complaining about how bad things have gotten.

    One of the reasons I became a programmer is because I enjoy solving problems. And the first thing you do when solving a problem.......... IS IDENTIFYING WHAT THAT PROBLEM IS.

    So you can feel free to attack me when you don't even know anything about me, but as I have disagreed with you on just about everything you have ever said on these forums (including you thinking "leveling is dumb and a waste of time" on an mmoRPG game), this will be my last response to you.
    GdemamiholdenfiveKyleran

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1 -> http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/436845/what-killed-mmorpgs-for-you/p1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).

  • HatefullHatefull Member RarePosts: 1,426
    Vardahoth said:
    Eldurian said:
    Vardahoth said:


    @Vardahoth - I see you post a lot of really long rants by YouTube commentators. Lots of them. This is at least the third one.

    Not all of them are bad. Not all of them bring up invalid points. But I'm going to make my own little observation about internet culture.

    One of our friends (Much younger than you and even me) also likes to listen to a lot of long rants complaining about various games, and how gaming has been ruined in various ways. And what we discovered was when we invited him into our guild... he whined about everything constantly on Teamspeak. The rest of the guild hated him and even though this is a guy we hang out with IRL we found him to be pretty damn annoying online too. Pretty much everyone was tired of him griping about everything.

    And that sort of got me noticing. Almost everyone you meet who holds much stock in people who like to get on YouTube to complain seems to develop this complex where they think it's endearing to be a complainer. To constantly find the negative in everything and pick it to pieces to everyone around you.

    I would say you are no exception to the rule. If your signature wasn't enough of a give away then the fact your signature is mimicked in your every post would be. Constantly complaining is not an endearing trait and it doesn't endear you to those around you. Complaining sometimes yes, it can be a good way to bond with people who share your frustrations, but not constantly. There has to be some kind of balance. 

    If I were you, I'd spend a lot less time listening to YouTubers gripe about things you hate, and a lot more time enjoying things you love. Because the path you are on right now seems to be one of a bitter man growing increasingly older while failing to make any real connections with anyone around them.

    Maybe if you can hook into a group based on common likes rather than common dislikes you can  form a tight group of friends who won't kick you out of dungeons.
    yeah... and this is the conversation I just had with a friend (or as you would call them "connection") before checking these forums today...



    So it's not just me who brings up the points on how bad video games have gotten over time. It's many people. And the reason I post "a lot" of video's, is because these video's bring up points to answer the questions of all these threads complaining about how bad things have gotten.

    One of the reasons I became a programmer is because I enjoy solving problems. And the first thing you do when solving a problem.......... IS IDENTIFYING WHAT THAT PROBLEM IS.

    So you can feel free to attack me when you don't even know anything about me, but as I have disagreed with you on just about everything you have ever said on these forums (including you thinking "leveling is dumb and a waste of time" on an mmoRPG game), this will be my last response to you.
    It would be cool if you could just write a coherent response without trying to prove you have friends...which is just about all these idiotic screen shots prove. 

    On the point of the thread, I think it is just easier and far less headache to solo. The post I quoted is a perfect example of why it is just easier to solo. Entitled arrogance based on ignorance, yet can't form a complete sentence and has to resort to petty insults to anyone that disagrees with him/her.

    Yeah, there are really good people out there, but for every good person I have run across and developed a friendship with, there are about 100 others I have put on ignore. To be clear I am no snowflake, nor do I offend easy, you have to work to get on m y ignore list.
    TorvalCazrielKyleran

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • holdenhamletholdenhamlet Member EpicPosts: 3,715
    edited July 26
    I disagree.  The games create the atmosphere.  If grouping is encouraged and rewarded, people are naturally going to be nicer to eachother (because they need them, just like in real life). 

    Recent MMOs do not do this.  You can't even trade in BDO and there is no group content.  BnS has nice group content, but it's all instanced and you warp to it, so by the time you could strike up a conversation, assuming you wanted to, the instance is over and you never see the other players again.

    In any case, I call total BS on any idea that "this new generation" is a bunch of good-for-nothings.  That's a theme that's persisted through history and has never been true.
    Post edited by holdenhamlet on
    MadFrenchieGdemamiHawkaya399
  • EldurianEldurian Member RarePosts: 1,412
    edited July 26
    Vardahoth said:


    Nope I don't. All I know is one of the first Vardahoth threads I ever saw was about how you just can't fit into these modern guilds and they all suck. And that one of your last rants was about how you got kicked from a dungeon but the entire rest of your party (They seemed pretty hostile when the screenshots started, sure there isn't anything you are leaving out?), and that your signature contains the words "I Quit" and attempts to blame the downfall of MMOs on Pokemon... (Did someone get "triggered" by all them damn yunguns playing their stupid phone games last year?)

    Everyone has social problems. You seem to have more than your fair share. Ever considered it isn't the fault of everyone else?

    Like I said. Complaining sometimes is fine, even good in the right situation. All the time destroys most social connections and makes you flat out annoying to be around, and getting too much your entertainment from people who make a living on complaining doesn't help break away from that kind of mindset.

    Whatever. Just my advise. Take it or leave it.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
    holdenfiveCazrielKyleranRufusUO
  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIMember UncommonPosts: 2,852
    I disagree.  The games create the atmosphere.  If grouping is encouraged and rewarded, people are naturally going to be nicer to eachother (because they need them, just like in real life).
    LOL

    Sorry, but you can't be serious.

    Forced grouping has absolutely nothing to do with it.

    I saw toxic and elitist people everywhere in EQ1 in 2001 and FF11 in 2002
    GdemamiKyleranHatefull
  • holdenfiveholdenfive Member UncommonPosts: 120
    I think this thread has quickly become a microcosm of why MMO communities appear to be mainly trash now. The same people going on idealistic rants here are the same people who likely flood your local mmo gen chat with useless shite. 
    GdemamiKyleranHatefull
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,660
    I think this thread has quickly become a microcosm of why MMO communities appear to be mainly trash now. The same people going on idealistic rants here are the same people who likely flood your local mmo gen chat with useless shite. 

    Totally untrue! There hasn't been a single mention of anal here. 
    KalebGraysonholdenfiveKyleran

    Crazkanuk

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078
    jesus fucking christ this guy

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  • CazrielCazriel San Francisco, CAMember UncommonPosts: 175
    Computer use to be pretty rare, not everyone had one.  So it was a different type of people playing computer games.  Now they are for the masses and everyone has them.  So it follows certain types of people would find them more easily available for the types of things they like to do.  Our focus determines our reality.   Quote

    And not everyone who had a computer had an internet connection.  And game subscriptions kept a lot of people out of games.  Ultima Online was a very hefty $65 to buy originally, with a $10 monthly subscription.   That was 20 years ago.  I just couldn't justify the expense.  It wasn't until WoW's release that I could afford a monthly game subscription. 

    Subscriptions by no means kept the toxic element out of games, but it did limit the number of people coming into games with little or no sustained interest in it.  Plunking down $75 to lark around with your mates and piss people off is still a lot of money, but in 1997 is was really a lot of money. 

    KyleranHatefull
  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 22,530
    I disagree.  The games create the atmosphere.  If grouping is encouraged and rewarded, people are naturally going to be nicer to eachother (because they need them, just like in real life). 

    Recent MMOs do not do this.  You can't even trade in BDO and there is no group content.  BnS has nice group content, but it's all instanced and you warp to it, so by the time you could strike up a conversation, assuming you wanted to, the instance is over and you never see the other players again.

    In any case, I call total BS on any idea that "this new generation" is a bunch of good-for-nothings.  That's a theme that's persisted through history and has never been true.
    I'm of the believe that "nice" people are nice. I treat people well whether I need them or not. If the only reason people are treating each other well is because they need them then that right there is an issue.
    TorvalEothasCrazKanukGdemamiKyleranHatefull



  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,037
    so people can have fun in toxic communities by treating each other as NPCs. That is nothing new. 
    KyleranTheScavenger
  • Tuor7Tuor7 Bellevue, WAMember UncommonPosts: 756
    edited July 28
    One of the main reasons I prefer to solo most of the time is that I tend go off on tangents... a lot. I like being able to do what I want to do when I want to do it. When I join a group, I tend to do whatever the group wants to do. I almost never even put  forward things I want to get done, because I'm too passive for that, and I feel it's my responsibility as a group member to support the group's needs.

    Is this my problem? Yep. It sure is. And my solution is to simply avoid groups unless I'm in the mood to help out other people's needs with the possible bonus that what they want to do and what I want to do coincide. Obviously, if you're running a dungeon, then that's likely to work out. But, for example, back when I was playing EQ 1, you needed to group (I was a warrior) in order to do any serious levelling -- there was really no such thing as solo content for a warrior -- so that meant being in a group at all times if you wanted to do something of significance.

    At any rate, the fact that group chat has... diminished over the years doesn't really bother me much (thought it still does a little). I'm not looking for people to become long-term friends with, especially when I don't know if I'll still be playing a week or a month from then. If I'm not feeling particularly committed, or if non-game issues might come up, then I feel like it'd be selfish to attach myself to people or groups when I'm not going to be around much, or will want to spend most of my time doing my own things on my own. So I avoid groups and guilds alike, as much as I can. Maybe that's not the optimal way of handling things, but it works well enough for me.
    Post edited by Tuor7 on
  • LynxJSALynxJSA Sarasota, FLMember RarePosts: 3,173
    I think the inability to separate into like-minded or culturally-similar groups is the culprit. Few MMOs support that, as things like hub-city design and global chat work against it.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078
    LynxJSA said:
    I think the inability to separate into like-minded or culturally-similar groups is the culprit. Few MMOs support that, as things like hub-city design and global chat work against it.
    I dont think that is the case.

    I think people who want social groups already have a social group and they play together regardless of the need to.

    its not like people (anymore) randomly jump into an MMO with zero real life or 'virtual friends' looking for others to play with who all like cross-stitching (as an example). The MMO as a social network is the days of 1993 at best. Now you form your groups now with other social network systems like meetup (only one random example).

    So...if you dont have a social network already you jump on an MMO to find some people who are looking for the same I gotta ask, what are the chances that pool of socially disconnected but looking group of people and doing it in an MMO are going to be emotionally stable?


    Kylerancameltosis

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  • RavingRabbidRavingRabbid Virginia beach, VAMember UncommonPosts: 1,168
    edited July 31
    List of reasons but no limited to---Drunk Players (affecting gameplay or raids), Players High on Drugs (affecting Gameplay or raids), Anti-religous bigotry, religious discussions, political discussions, discussions of rape, racist rants, cursing, putting other players down, unsolicited advice, know-it-all players, homophobic rants or slurs, sexual discussions, do nothing guilds, silly guild drama, pvp arena quitters.... etc etc

    There comes a point where people get tired of this garbage. All of us have seen or at least been a victim of the above some point in the current or past. IMO this why more people desire to be solo far more so than crappy gameplay (players ive talked to). Sadly I rarely enter chats anymore. I wish this was different.

    *** Double Plunger Salute to Glow on Netflix! ***
    Post edited by RavingRabbid on
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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078
    List of reasons but no limited to---Drunk Players (affecting gameplay or raids), Players High on Drugs (affecting Gameplay or raids), Anti-religous bigotry, religious discussions, political discussions, discussions of rape, racist rants, cursing, putting other players down, unsolicited advice, know-it-all players, homophobic rants or slurs, sexual discussions, do nothing guilds, silly guild drama, pvp arena quitters.... etc etc

    There comes a point where people get tired of this garbage. All of us have seen or at least been a victim of the above some point in the current or past. IMO this why more people desire to be solo far more so than crappy gameplay (players ive talked to). Sadly I rarely enter chats anymore. I wish this was different.

    *** Double Plunger Salute to Glow on Netflix! ***
    basically there is a reason some people do not already have already established social groups.
    most are for bad reasons, some are more reasonable reasons.

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INMember RarePosts: 5,309
    Beyorn said:
    The community back in Eq1 and DAoC was very mature.  I pugged often and played with friends.  You saw very little of what we see today.  I just dont understand why it has gotten so bad.

    We hardly ever kicked someone.  They had to ninja loot or but a complete ass.  I remember grouping with bad players and that never even crossed our minds.  I helped out newbies, I raised people, summoned corpses.

    I think those times are sadly gone forever ;(.
    I had the same experiences...Both excellent communities (AO too).....Really I didnt see a bad community (other than UO which was PVP) until WoW, then it really got bad.
    KyleranHatefull
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 25,815
    Beyorn said:
    The community back in Eq1 and DAoC was very mature.  I pugged often and played with friends.  You saw very little of what we see today.  I just dont understand why it has gotten so bad.

    We hardly ever kicked someone.  They had to ninja loot or but a complete ass.  I remember grouping with bad players and that never even crossed our minds.  I helped out newbies, I raised people, summoned corpses.

    I think those times are sadly gone forever ;(.
    I had the same experiences...Both excellent communities (AO too).....Really I didnt see a bad community (other than UO which was PVP) until WoW, then it really got bad.
    Showing how naive I was, I recall leveling in some upper level, pre raiding dungeon and ran into a player who immediately dropped group once we completed the interim boss and he didn't get the drop he wanted.

    Someone explained to me this player was well known for doing this and I still recall being amazed and appalled anyone would care so little for their in game reputation, never mind how selfish they must be.

    Just the tip of the iceberg, and the start of a very long spiral downwards. 


    Hatefull

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    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 25,815
    SEANMCAD said:
    List of reasons but no limited to---Drunk Players (affecting gameplay or raids), Players High on Drugs (affecting Gameplay or raids), Anti-religous bigotry, religious discussions, political discussions, discussions of rape, racist rants, cursing, putting other players down, unsolicited advice, know-it-all players, homophobic rants or slurs, sexual discussions, do nothing guilds, silly guild drama, pvp arena quitters.... etc etc

    There comes a point where people get tired of this garbage. All of us have seen or at least been a victim of the above some point in the current or past. IMO this why more people desire to be solo far more so than crappy gameplay (players ive talked to). Sadly I rarely enter chats anymore. I wish this was different.

    *** Double Plunger Salute to Glow on Netflix! ***
    basically there is a reason some people do not already have already established social groups.
    most are for bad reasons, some are more reasonable reasons.

    Well some of us are just too good to socialize with the "riff-raff" out there. 

    B)

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • RidelynnRidelynn Fresno, CAMember EpicPosts: 5,970
    It's not that I want a solo experience - that isn't true at all. In fact I prefer a highly social game and game play, even though I'm not an outgoing extrovert.

    I just don't want the inconvenience of having to wait for other people, put up with stupid people/trolls, or have to endure caustic or rude communities.

    There's no perfect system that addresses all of that, I know. I don't even think it's possible, too many of those things are at odds with each other.
  • MoiraeMoirae New Orleans, LAMember RarePosts: 3,213
    edited August 1
    Thats part of it but it isn't the whole part. The fact is that most rpg solo games are much much better than anything mmo's currently offer because they are willing to expand what they offer and try new things while MMO's are busy whining how it's getting harder to wow people with graphics instead. 
    Post edited by Moirae on
  • AmatheAmathe Miami, FLMember RarePosts: 2,846
    "L'enfer, ces't les autres." 

    True when Sartre said it. Still true now. 
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  • RusqueRusque Las Vegas, NVMember RarePosts: 2,739
    Vardahoth said:


    #2 In general, I have noticed more and more people becoming over sensitive and soft. SJW's have pretty much made most developers listen to their cries, and developers have decided to let SJW's dictate how their game is going to be created. Which is why you have stuff like this happening...

    If you think MMO's have been overrun by SJW's, you should turn general chat back on, that should dissolve that notion promptly.
    KyleranMadFrenchieHatefull
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