I don't really RP (in the P&P sense). When i play an action RPg like D3, it is all meta, optimization, gear progression, and kill stuff in fun combat.
I think that's the point that's being made. RPG is a hijacked term these days.
If there is no RP in RPG then it's like calling a show about painting a cooking show because some elements that are sometimes present in cooking shows are present in this painting show.
Most people would agknowledge Diablo as an RPG but few would say Diablo is a game about RP. When you've lost the core of your term, it's time to adopt a new term.
We have certainly discussed the double M enough. It seems these discussions are so hot, that a candy manufacturer has named their top product as M&M and also there's another rapper going by the same name... so well done on that part! Although I myself, am a student of Heidegger school, and believe one should keep asking the same fundamental questions over and over. So not closing that debate altogether!
By playing a video game, you are submitting yourself to a role. Hence one can argue, all video games are in fact roleplaying games. So there's an RP in everything. Be that as it may, I believe in time that concept has also evolved, or at least, I believe it should. We can name other features, such as character creation, classes, experience points and levels, crafting, etc.
What differentiates an MMOG from an MMORPG in your book?
So, I've spent a long time looking what actually defines an RPG.
It isn't progression, or story lines or anything like that. The only common, unique thing about an RPG is that you, the player, get to define your own role and for that choice to then have an impact on the way you experience the game.
So, in terms of the definition of a role, this comes about through class selection, skill / trait / build selection and any gear that modifies the way your character behaves. The less choice you have, the less you are able to define your own role so it stops feeling like "you", and more like "them".
A good example from my own gaming history is the Captain from LotRO. A jack-of-all-trades character, you could take them in any direction. Focus on tanking, healing or dps. Front line or backline. Halberds, greatswords, 2h axes, or 1h + shield. Personal buffs or group buffs. You had so many options for how to define your character and all were viable, so the end choice felt like you. I personally preferred frontline DPS focus with group-buffs - leading by example is how I defined my role - so it felt really great to play.
Once a game allows you to define your own role, it is then important that your role changes the way the game plays. At the most basic end, this just means changing your rotations and approach to combat. If the RPG is well coded, it means your actions are reflected in future content - "oh, you killed the robber, we just wanted him driven off". If it has a good combat system, your role can drastically change the tactics you use in fights (as opposed to poorly designed systems that usually just end up with dps races).
Within an MMO setting, your role definition doesn't necessarily need to be reflected by the game, the community itself can notice it. I had a minor reputation of sticking with a DPS build long after most captains had switched to healing. Some tanks were known for their DPS abilities. Some healers became known as being nearly unkillable due to their choices. Some hunters (ranged dps) became known for their awesome CC skills.
What I have found, personally, is that the more viable choices there are, the closer you can get to creating a character that you really love and can thus get immersed in. Whilst I never "roleplay" by speaking in character or anything like that, I do find that I start altering the way I play so that I act more like my character - leading charges in pvp on my captain because I'm supposed to be a leader, or sacrificing myself for others when playing a hardy dwarf tank, hell, even being an annoying idiot by AoEing everything when playing a berzerker type melee dps (never enough to cause a wipe, but enough to piss off the healers!).
TL;DR - an RPG, for me, is about the ability to define your own role (through skills, traits, builds and gear) and to have that role alter your gameplay experience in a significant way.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
We have certainly discussed the double M enough. It seems these discussions are so hot, that a candy manufacturer has named their top product as M&M and also there's another rapper going by the same name... so well done on that part! Although I myself, am a student of Heidegger school, and believe one should keep asking the same fundamental questions over and over. So not closing that debate altogether!
By playing a video game, you are submitting yourself to a role. Hence one can argue, all video games are in fact roleplaying games. So there's an RP in everything. Be that as it may, I believe in time that concept has also evolved, or at least, I believe it should. We can name other features, such as character creation, classes, experience points and levels, crafting, etc.
What differentiates an MMOG from an MMORPG in your book?
To me, I think a game needs to offer a platform of lore and mechanics that enable me to engage my imagination in creating a personalized story. There should be opportunities to explore deep moral questions (what is the price of mercy?) and just experience a bit of frivolous fun. A game should present the player with decisions, choices and repercussions. To date, games have not matched my expectations, as most simply don't present the player with decisions that have consequences, even superficial ones. The MM variety of RP games offer fewer of the moral dilemmas than the single player versions have attempted. The dialog choices are immature, with the player having the ability to select every single dialog option (looking at you, ESO:Morrowind), and frequently NPCs don't react to your dialog selections. There's no way to establish a 'personality' through dialog choices.
Since I'm creating a story, the games don't have any mechanism to share these stories beyond the rudimentary text chat options. I can create a wonderful story, but only to entertain myself. One day, I can hope that players can create and share stories to entertain each other. I don't expect that will happen in my current lifetime.
I've been around since the beginning of D&D. What we think of as RP should evolve, but I'm not certain that it has. Games fail to innovate and fall back on the same concepts and ideas from the 1972 efforts. We still use HPs and AC and levels and other concepts to represent ourselves into our fantasy worlds. Can these really be the best ways to abstract a human (or non-human) entity, especially considering that we now have amazing computing power at our disposal? Still, computer games are beholden to the simple analog dice.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
We have certainly discussed the double M enough. It seems these discussions are so hot, that a candy manufacturer has named their top product as M&M and also there's another rapper going by the same name... so well done on that part! Although I myself, am a student of Heidegger school, and believe one should keep asking the same fundamental questions over and over. So not closing that debate altogether!
By playing a video game, you are submitting yourself to a role. Hence one can argue, all video games are in fact roleplaying games. So there's an RP in everything. Be that as it may, I believe in time that concept has also evolved, or at least, I believe it should. We can name other features, such as character creation, classes, experience points and levels, crafting, etc.
What differentiates an MMOG from an MMORPG in your book?
So, I've spent a long time looking what actually defines an RPG.
It isn't progression, or story lines or anything like that. The only common, unique thing about an RPG is that you, the player, get to define your own role and for that choice to then have an impact on the way you experience the game.
So, in terms of the definition of a role, this comes about through class selection, skill / trait / build selection and any gear that modifies the way your character behaves. The less choice you have, the less you are able to define your own role so it stops feeling like "you", and more like "them".
A good example from my own gaming history is the Captain from LotRO. A jack-of-all-trades character, you could take them in any direction. Focus on tanking, healing or dps. Front line or backline. Halberds, greatswords, 2h axes, or 1h + shield. Personal buffs or group buffs. You had so many options for how to define your character and all were viable, so the end choice felt like you. I personally preferred frontline DPS focus with group-buffs - leading by example is how I defined my role - so it felt really great to play.
Once a game allows you to define your own role, it is then important that your role changes the way the game plays. At the most basic end, this just means changing your rotations and approach to combat. If the RPG is well coded, it means your actions are reflected in future content - "oh, you killed the robber, we just wanted him driven off". If it has a good combat system, your role can drastically change the tactics you use in fights (as opposed to poorly designed systems that usually just end up with dps races).
Within an MMO setting, your role definition doesn't necessarily need to be reflected by the game, the community itself can notice it. I had a minor reputation of sticking with a DPS build long after most captains had switched to healing. Some tanks were known for their DPS abilities. Some healers became known as being nearly unkillable due to their choices. Some hunters (ranged dps) became known for their awesome CC skills.
What I have found, personally, is that the more viable choices there are, the closer you can get to creating a character that you really love and can thus get immersed in. Whilst I never "roleplay" by speaking in character or anything like that, I do find that I start altering the way I play so that I act more like my character - leading charges in pvp on my captain because I'm supposed to be a leader, or sacrificing myself for others when playing a hardy dwarf tank, hell, even being an annoying idiot by AoEing everything when playing a berzerker type melee dps (never enough to cause a wipe, but enough to piss off the healers!).
TL;DR - an RPG, for me, is about the ability to define your own role (through skills, traits, builds and gear) and to have that role alter your gameplay experience in a significant way.
We have certainly discussed the double M enough. It seems these discussions are so hot, that a candy manufacturer has named their top product as M&M and also there's another rapper going by the same name... so well done on that part! Although I myself, am a student of Heidegger school, and believe one should keep asking the same fundamental questions over and over. So not closing that debate altogether!
By playing a video game, you are submitting yourself to a role. Hence one can argue, all video games are in fact roleplaying games. So there's an RP in everything. Be that as it may, I believe in time that concept has also evolved, or at least, I believe it should. We can name other features, such as character creation, classes, experience points and levels, crafting, etc.
What differentiates an MMOG from an MMORPG in your book?
So, I've spent a long time looking what actually defines an RPG.
It isn't progression, or story lines or anything like that. The only common, unique thing about an RPG is that you, the player, get to define your own role and for that choice to then have an impact on the way you experience the game.
So, in terms of the definition of a role, this comes about through class selection, skill / trait / build selection and any gear that modifies the way your character behaves. The less choice you have, the less you are able to define your own role so it stops feeling like "you", and more like "them".
A good example from my own gaming history is the Captain from LotRO. A jack-of-all-trades character, you could take them in any direction. Focus on tanking, healing or dps. Front line or backline. Halberds, greatswords, 2h axes, or 1h + shield. Personal buffs or group buffs. You had so many options for how to define your character and all were viable, so the end choice felt like you. I personally preferred frontline DPS focus with group-buffs - leading by example is how I defined my role - so it felt really great to play.
Once a game allows you to define your own role, it is then important that your role changes the way the game plays. At the most basic end, this just means changing your rotations and approach to combat. If the RPG is well coded, it means your actions are reflected in future content - "oh, you killed the robber, we just wanted him driven off". If it has a good combat system, your role can drastically change the tactics you use in fights (as opposed to poorly designed systems that usually just end up with dps races).
Within an MMO setting, your role definition doesn't necessarily need to be reflected by the game, the community itself can notice it. I had a minor reputation of sticking with a DPS build long after most captains had switched to healing. Some tanks were known for their DPS abilities. Some healers became known as being nearly unkillable due to their choices. Some hunters (ranged dps) became known for their awesome CC skills.
What I have found, personally, is that the more viable choices there are, the closer you can get to creating a character that you really love and can thus get immersed in. Whilst I never "roleplay" by speaking in character or anything like that, I do find that I start altering the way I play so that I act more like my character - leading charges in pvp on my captain because I'm supposed to be a leader, or sacrificing myself for others when playing a hardy dwarf tank, hell, even being an annoying idiot by AoEing everything when playing a berzerker type melee dps (never enough to cause a wipe, but enough to piss off the healers!).
TL;DR - an RPG, for me, is about the ability to define your own role (through skills, traits, builds and gear) and to have that role alter your gameplay experience in a significant way.
What you both talk about is immersion that is already defined and related to RPG.
I wasn't talking about immersion.
I mean, the better the RPG, the more likely you are to become immersed, but defining your own role and having that role alter your gameplay experience is not the same thing as immersion, not by a longshot (one is mechanics, the other is empathy)
Most people would agknowledge Diablo as an RPG but few would say Diablo is a game about RP. When you've lost the core of your term, it's time to adopt a new term.
To me, the rpg component is whether my avatar "feels like" how I imagine a character of that type would be. For example, if I play a ranger, do I excel when i am in the forest and the wilds? Am I good with a bow? Those are traits I associate with rangers, and having those traits helps me feel like I am in that role.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Most people would agknowledge Diablo as an RPG but few would say Diablo is a game about RP. When you've lost the core of your term, it's time to adopt a new term.
and people refuse to see that in MMOs.
Well most of the MMOs I choose to invest much time in do have legitimate elements of RP and a heavier focus on immersion than you're average WoW clone. The again most of the MMOs I play are indie.
I would agree that few themeparks are condusive to roleplay.
When I can make my character my own. When I'm just playing some generic character that is the same across everyone else's computer, the interest is lost. The more options they have to enhance that, the better. Crafting,Clothing,Character creation,weapons, skills, housing, etc. This is probably why I hate every current MMORPG.
I am not very creative and cannot make up stories but when I played City of Heroes/Villains I had all these back stories that I had written and I tried my level best to play out the role I had decided I should have in that game and it made the game vastly more interesting to play. It helped that they allowed you to create the wide variety of costumes that you could play around with to suit the story. When I played City of Heroes/Villains I was very fortunate to find even in random groups when doing missions people who had very interesting stories and were interested in role playing while we played and the other group members did not interfere or played along. The missions were fun too even though it became repetitive as far as the setting i.e. cave, office, sewer and so on the stories were nevertheless well written.
Yes, CoH was the best. The fact that it had a place to write down a character bio showed that it was geared for roleplaying. Plus the wide variety of costumes. Interesting costume parts often drive me to create backgrounds for them. Had that happen to me in EQ2 too, but of course to a much lesser extent.
Most MMORPG games are RPG's in the CRPG sense: character selection, advancement, with hopefully some story and worldbuilding thrown in. It's not that bad, but CoH just sparked the imagination in a way that I didn't see any other game do.
We have certainly discussed the double M enough. It seems these discussions are so hot, that a candy manufacturer has named their top product as M&M and also there's another rapper going by the same name... so well done on that part! Although I myself, am a student of Heidegger school, and believe one should keep asking the same fundamental questions over and over. So not closing that debate altogether!
By playing a video game, you are submitting yourself to a role. Hence one can argue, all video games are in fact roleplaying games. So there's an RP in everything. Be that as it may, I believe in time that concept has also evolved, or at least, I believe it should. We can name other features, such as character creation, classes, experience points and levels, crafting, etc.
What differentiates an MMOG from an MMORPG in your book?
So, I've spent a long time looking what actually defines an RPG.
It isn't progression, or story lines or anything like that. The only common, unique thing about an RPG is that you, the player, get to define your own role and for that choice to then have an impact on the way you experience the game.
So, in terms of the definition of a role, this comes about through class selection, skill / trait / build selection and any gear that modifies the way your character behaves. The less choice you have, the less you are able to define your own role so it stops feeling like "you", and more like "them".
A good example from my own gaming history is the Captain from LotRO. A jack-of-all-trades character, you could take them in any direction. Focus on tanking, healing or dps. Front line or backline. Halberds, greatswords, 2h axes, or 1h + shield. Personal buffs or group buffs. You had so many options for how to define your character and all were viable, so the end choice felt like you. I personally preferred frontline DPS focus with group-buffs - leading by example is how I defined my role - so it felt really great to play.
Once a game allows you to define your own role, it is then important that your role changes the way the game plays. At the most basic end, this just means changing your rotations and approach to combat. If the RPG is well coded, it means your actions are reflected in future content - "oh, you killed the robber, we just wanted him driven off". If it has a good combat system, your role can drastically change the tactics you use in fights (as opposed to poorly designed systems that usually just end up with dps races).
Within an MMO setting, your role definition doesn't necessarily need to be reflected by the game, the community itself can notice it. I had a minor reputation of sticking with a DPS build long after most captains had switched to healing. Some tanks were known for their DPS abilities. Some healers became known as being nearly unkillable due to their choices. Some hunters (ranged dps) became known for their awesome CC skills.
What I have found, personally, is that the more viable choices there are, the closer you can get to creating a character that you really love and can thus get immersed in. Whilst I never "roleplay" by speaking in character or anything like that, I do find that I start altering the way I play so that I act more like my character - leading charges in pvp on my captain because I'm supposed to be a leader, or sacrificing myself for others when playing a hardy dwarf tank, hell, even being an annoying idiot by AoEing everything when playing a berzerker type melee dps (never enough to cause a wipe, but enough to piss off the healers!).
TL;DR - an RPG, for me, is about the ability to define your own role (through skills, traits, builds and gear) and to have that role alter your gameplay experience in a significant way.
What you both talk about is immersion that is already defined and related to RPG.
Role play is clearly separate from immersion, however for me some of the main things that facilitate immersion happen to be the same things that facilitate role play.
I suppose I look at role-playing more from a dramatic standpoint, whereas others might take a more mechanical approach. A good role-playing game invites me in to playing a role without making me feel as though I were "role playing". In short, in situations where I am reacting as my character would inside a game, I am role playing.
Counterstrike is not a role playing game since there is this endless cycle of violence, and I am more concerned with winning matches than, say... sparing a hostile unit's life or walking away alive. I can easily be immersed in said game, however.
The Stanley Parable is a good role playing game, because of the setting and the "fun" factor, which is really an invitation to suspend disbelief. I can easily react as a somewhat clueless office worker under the scrutiny of a Machiavellian corporation would.
Many MMORPGs do a terrible job with the "RP" part; to see this one need look no further than the quest givers standing motionless all day giving out quests to dozens of players walking past in WoW. This draws lots of attention to the fact that one is playing a game and undermines the willing suspension of disbelief.
Post edited by Phaserlight on
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
We have certainly discussed the double M enough. It seems these discussions are so hot, that a candy manufacturer has named their top product as M&M and also there's another rapper going by the same name... so well done on that part! Although I myself, am a student of Heidegger school, and believe one should keep asking the same fundamental questions over and over. So not closing that debate altogether!
By playing a video game, you are submitting yourself to a role. Hence one can argue, all video games are in fact roleplaying games. So there's an RP in everything. Be that as it may, I believe in time that concept has also evolved, or at least, I believe it should. We can name other features, such as character creation, classes, experience points and levels, crafting, etc.
What differentiates an MMOG from an MMORPG in your book?
TL;DR - an RPG, for me, is about the ability to define your own role (through skills, traits, builds and gear) and to have that role alter your gameplay experience in a significant way.
What you both talk about is immersion that is already defined and related to RPG.
Role play is clearly separate from immersion, however for me some of the main things that facilitate immersion happen to be the same things that facilitate role play.
If we define being immersed in a video game the point at which you stop thinking in terms of controlling your character, and start thinking in terms of being that character (this seems to be the academic consensus on what immersion is), then you are absolutely correct.
The ability to define your role allows you to connect to that character in a much stronger way, and the ability to express that defined role within the game allows you to start thinking as that character more easily.
For example, playing the latest Zelda, I didn't feel immersed, I always felt like I was controlling Link - a clear disconnect. But, Zelda is not an RPG. Conversely, playing SWG, I fully defined my character, both aesthetically and skill/build wise, so I quite quickly stopped thinking "I'm gonna take my character to Dath and farm rancors" and started with "I'm gonna go to Dath..".
I wouldn't say that the not needing to feel like you are "Roleplaying" is part of a successful RPG. For instance in D&D it is very obvious you are roleplaying. You are talking in-character, thinking from your character's perspective. The thing is when you are all gathered around a D&D table, RP comes naturally and feels natural.
When you are standing around a tavern in your average themepark RP feels forced. Many RP communities dream up additional RP rules to prevent "god mode" and generally you're using the limited mechanics available in the game that promote RP, and fighting the many mechanics in the game they are counter to RP.
A good RPG should be one in which additional mechanics are not needed to RP, nor do you need to sweep the majority of mechanics in the game under the rug to RP. If you choose to go to a tavern and start talking in-character then it should feel natural. The lore of the world. The story your character has developed as they progressed, the gap of power between players, it should all be realistic enough that if you guys decide to go running out into the world to do dungeons or PvP (essentially play the game instead of just talking in a tavern) the entire experience can be done in-character and feel right.
No need to explain why every single one of you is the chosen one born with the special mark your village leader has never seen before despite the fact you all were born in the same 20 man village. No need to explain why your lower level buddies attacks bounce of you harmlessly. No need to explain why that guy you just killed respawned in the same location ten seconds later.
And yeah I agree that immersion and RP do go hand-in-hand in most cases. Because when you create a world like that, then even people who would sooner die than talk in-character will feel a sense of immersion as they play the game.
lol .. do you morph into an alien when you play a video game?
i can create my own character. i can be male or female or a kitten
That is your character .. a virtual entity controlled by you .. a human.
Don't tell me you are confused between your character and you. Can *you* switch between male and female at will?
im a straight male. so i act manly in real life because that is me. however in mmorpg i gain different body, so i can act whatever i want. even if i play a girl character, im attracted to girl. so yeah
im a straight male. so i act manly in real life because that is me. however in mmorpg i gain different body, so i can act whatever i want. even if i play a girl character, im attracted to girl. so yeah
I would suggest a counselor first, and may be a psychologist later. You probably need some help separating reality and fantasy.
We have certainly discussed the double M enough. It seems these discussions are so hot, that a candy manufacturer has named their top product as M&M and also there's another rapper going by the same name... so well done on that part! Although I myself, am a student of Heidegger school, and believe one should keep asking the same fundamental questions over and over. So not closing that debate altogether!
By playing a video game, you are submitting yourself to a role. Hence one can argue, all video games are in fact roleplaying games. So there's an RP in everything. Be that as it may, I believe in time that concept has also evolved, or at least, I believe it should. We can name other features, such as character creation, classes, experience points and levels, crafting, etc.
What differentiates an MMOG from an MMORPG in your book?
So, I've spent a long time looking what actually defines an RPG.
It isn't progression, or story lines or anything like that. The only common, unique thing about an RPG is that you, the player, get to define your own role and for that choice to then have an impact on the way you experience the game.
So, in terms of the definition of a role, this comes about through class selection, skill / trait / build selection and any gear that modifies the way your character behaves. The less choice you have, the less you are able to define your own role so it stops feeling like "you", and more like "them".
A good example from my own gaming history is the Captain from LotRO. A jack-of-all-trades character, you could take them in any direction. Focus on tanking, healing or dps. Front line or backline. Halberds, greatswords, 2h axes, or 1h + shield. Personal buffs or group buffs. You had so many options for how to define your character and all were viable, so the end choice felt like you. I personally preferred frontline DPS focus with group-buffs - leading by example is how I defined my role - so it felt really great to play.
Once a game allows you to define your own role, it is then important that your role changes the way the game plays. At the most basic end, this just means changing your rotations and approach to combat. If the RPG is well coded, it means your actions are reflected in future content - "oh, you killed the robber, we just wanted him driven off". If it has a good combat system, your role can drastically change the tactics you use in fights (as opposed to poorly designed systems that usually just end up with dps races).
Within an MMO setting, your role definition doesn't necessarily need to be reflected by the game, the community itself can notice it. I had a minor reputation of sticking with a DPS build long after most captains had switched to healing. Some tanks were known for their DPS abilities. Some healers became known as being nearly unkillable due to their choices. Some hunters (ranged dps) became known for their awesome CC skills.
What I have found, personally, is that the more viable choices there are, the closer you can get to creating a character that you really love and can thus get immersed in. Whilst I never "roleplay" by speaking in character or anything like that, I do find that I start altering the way I play so that I act more like my character - leading charges in pvp on my captain because I'm supposed to be a leader, or sacrificing myself for others when playing a hardy dwarf tank, hell, even being an annoying idiot by AoEing everything when playing a berzerker type melee dps (never enough to cause a wipe, but enough to piss off the healers!).
TL;DR - an RPG, for me, is about the ability to define your own role (through skills, traits, builds and gear) and to have that role alter your gameplay experience in a significant way.
What you both talk about is immersion that is already defined and related to RPG.
Role play is clearly separate from immersion, however for me some of the main things that facilitate immersion happen to be the same things that facilitate role play.
I suppose I look at role-playing more from a dramatic standpoint, whereas others might take a more mechanical approach. A good role-playing game invites me in to playing a role without making me feel as though I were "role playing". In short, in situations where I am reacting as my character would inside a game, I am role playing.
Counterstrike is not a role playing game since there is this endless cycle of violence, and I am more concerned with winning matches than, say... sparing a hostile unit's life or walking away alive. I can easily be immersed in said game, however.
The Stanley Parable is a good role playing game, because of the setting and the "fun" factor, which is really an invitation to suspend disbelief. I can easily react as a somewhat clueless office worker under the scrutiny of a Machiavellian corporation would.
Many MMORPGs do a terrible job with the "RP" part; to see this one need look no further than the quest givers standing motionless all day giving out quests to dozens of players walking past in WoW. This draws lots of attention to the fact that one is playing a game and undermines the willing suspension of disbelief.
Fucking hell!
Involving yourself deep into your character relates to role playing and being immersed into character.
MMORPG gives you the tools to RP, it's up to you whether or not you choose to participate. How you and I choose to play ANY MMORPG you decide how much time or involvement you want to make even if it motionless you still are imagining yourself as Battle Mage, a Bad Ass Berserker with big tits, or stealthy rogue taking them from behind. Or you can also ignore it all together.
The youtube video is horeshit, again taking the side of realism in fucking video game. I do not play video games for realism.
im a straight male. so i act manly in real life because that is me. however in mmorpg i gain different body, so i can act whatever i want. even if i play a girl character, im attracted to girl. so yeah
I would suggest a counselor first, and may be a psychologist later. You probably need some help separating reality and fantasy.
how is that? im straight male and act male so whats the problem? i can RP as a female when i play female character.. but lesbo hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
We have certainly discussed the double M enough. It seems these discussions are so hot, that a candy manufacturer has named their top product as M&M and also there's another rapper going by the same name... so well done on that part! Although I myself, am a student of Heidegger school, and believe one should keep asking the same fundamental questions over and over. So not closing that debate altogether!
By playing a video game, you are submitting yourself to a role. Hence one can argue, all video games are in fact roleplaying games. So there's an RP in everything. Be that as it may, I believe in time that concept has also evolved, or at least, I believe it should. We can name other features, such as character creation, classes, experience points and levels, crafting, etc.
What differentiates an MMOG from an MMORPG in your book?
So, I've spent a long time looking what actually defines an RPG.
It isn't progression, or story lines or anything like that. The only common, unique thing about an RPG is that you, the player, get to define your own role and for that choice to then have an impact on the way you experience the game.
So, in terms of the definition of a role, this comes about through class selection, skill / trait / build selection and any gear that modifies the way your character behaves. The less choice you have, the less you are able to define your own role so it stops feeling like "you", and more like "them".
A good example from my own gaming history is the Captain from LotRO. A jack-of-all-trades character, you could take them in any direction. Focus on tanking, healing or dps. Front line or backline. Halberds, greatswords, 2h axes, or 1h + shield. Personal buffs or group buffs. You had so many options for how to define your character and all were viable, so the end choice felt like you. I personally preferred frontline DPS focus with group-buffs - leading by example is how I defined my role - so it felt really great to play.
Once a game allows you to define your own role, it is then important that your role changes the way the game plays. At the most basic end, this just means changing your rotations and approach to combat. If the RPG is well coded, it means your actions are reflected in future content - "oh, you killed the robber, we just wanted him driven off". If it has a good combat system, your role can drastically change the tactics you use in fights (as opposed to poorly designed systems that usually just end up with dps races).
Within an MMO setting, your role definition doesn't necessarily need to be reflected by the game, the community itself can notice it. I had a minor reputation of sticking with a DPS build long after most captains had switched to healing. Some tanks were known for their DPS abilities. Some healers became known as being nearly unkillable due to their choices. Some hunters (ranged dps) became known for their awesome CC skills.
What I have found, personally, is that the more viable choices there are, the closer you can get to creating a character that you really love and can thus get immersed in. Whilst I never "roleplay" by speaking in character or anything like that, I do find that I start altering the way I play so that I act more like my character - leading charges in pvp on my captain because I'm supposed to be a leader, or sacrificing myself for others when playing a hardy dwarf tank, hell, even being an annoying idiot by AoEing everything when playing a berzerker type melee dps (never enough to cause a wipe, but enough to piss off the healers!).
TL;DR - an RPG, for me, is about the ability to define your own role (through skills, traits, builds and gear) and to have that role alter your gameplay experience in a significant way.
What you both talk about is immersion that is already defined and related to RPG.
Role play is clearly separate from immersion, however for me some of the main things that facilitate immersion happen to be the same things that facilitate role play.
I suppose I look at role-playing more from a dramatic standpoint, whereas others might take a more mechanical approach. A good role-playing game invites me in to playing a role without making me feel as though I were "role playing". In short, in situations where I am reacting as my character would inside a game, I am role playing.
Counterstrike is not a role playing game since there is this endless cycle of violence, and I am more concerned with winning matches than, say... sparing a hostile unit's life or walking away alive. I can easily be immersed in said game, however.
The Stanley Parable is a good role playing game, because of the setting and the "fun" factor, which is really an invitation to suspend disbelief. I can easily react as a somewhat clueless office worker under the scrutiny of a Machiavellian corporation would.
Many MMORPGs do a terrible job with the "RP" part; to see this one need look no further than the quest givers standing motionless all day giving out quests to dozens of players walking past in WoW. This draws lots of attention to the fact that one is playing a game and undermines the willing suspension of disbelief.
Fucking hell!
Involving yourself deep into your character relates to role playing and being immersed into character.
MMORPG gives you the tools to RP, it's up to you whether or not you choose to participate. How you and I choose to play ANY MMORPG you decide how much time or involvement you want to make even if it motionless you still are imagining yourself as Battle Mage, a Bad Ass Berserker with big tits, or stealthy rogue taking them from behind. Or you can also ignore it all together.
The youtube video is horeshit, again taking the side of realism in fucking video game. I do not play video games for realism.
It's pure fantasy, fun, and entertainment.
I agree, and I think you're taking me (or the video) too seriously.
I mean RP as fun thing that exists in some video games, not that I literally think I am the video game character.
Out of curiosity, how would you define role playing?
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar Authored 139 missions in VendettaOnline and 6 tracks in Distance
I agree, and I think you're taking me (or the video) too seriously.
I mean RP as fun thing that exists in some video games, not that I literally think I am the video game character.
Out of curiosity, how would you define role playing?
Serious, no.
Sparkling wine, cocktail, and delicious wines with a keyboard.
How would I define a cat? And you are expecting an answer like with feathers, wings, and can talk, because that's how it feels to me. I don't like guesstimates or adaptations of things when it's already clearly defined.
Comments
If there is no RP in RPG then it's like calling a show about painting a cooking show because some elements that are sometimes present in cooking shows are present in this painting show.
Most people would agknowledge Diablo as an RPG but few would say Diablo is a game about RP. When you've lost the core of your term, it's time to adopt a new term.
It isn't progression, or story lines or anything like that. The only common, unique thing about an RPG is that you, the player, get to define your own role and for that choice to then have an impact on the way you experience the game.
So, in terms of the definition of a role, this comes about through class selection, skill / trait / build selection and any gear that modifies the way your character behaves. The less choice you have, the less you are able to define your own role so it stops feeling like "you", and more like "them".
A good example from my own gaming history is the Captain from LotRO. A jack-of-all-trades character, you could take them in any direction. Focus on tanking, healing or dps. Front line or backline. Halberds, greatswords, 2h axes, or 1h + shield. Personal buffs or group buffs. You had so many options for how to define your character and all were viable, so the end choice felt like you. I personally preferred frontline DPS focus with group-buffs - leading by example is how I defined my role - so it felt really great to play.
Once a game allows you to define your own role, it is then important that your role changes the way the game plays. At the most basic end, this just means changing your rotations and approach to combat. If the RPG is well coded, it means your actions are reflected in future content - "oh, you killed the robber, we just wanted him driven off". If it has a good combat system, your role can drastically change the tactics you use in fights (as opposed to poorly designed systems that usually just end up with dps races).
Within an MMO setting, your role definition doesn't necessarily need to be reflected by the game, the community itself can notice it. I had a minor reputation of sticking with a DPS build long after most captains had switched to healing. Some tanks were known for their DPS abilities. Some healers became known as being nearly unkillable due to their choices. Some hunters (ranged dps) became known for their awesome CC skills.
What I have found, personally, is that the more viable choices there are, the closer you can get to creating a character that you really love and can thus get immersed in. Whilst I never "roleplay" by speaking in character or anything like that, I do find that I start altering the way I play so that I act more like my character - leading charges in pvp on my captain because I'm supposed to be a leader, or sacrificing myself for others when playing a hardy dwarf tank, hell, even being an annoying idiot by AoEing everything when playing a berzerker type melee dps (never enough to cause a wipe, but enough to piss off the healers!).
TL;DR - an RPG, for me, is about the ability to define your own role (through skills, traits, builds and gear) and to have that role alter your gameplay experience in a significant way.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Since I'm creating a story, the games don't have any mechanism to share these stories beyond the rudimentary text chat options. I can create a wonderful story, but only to entertain myself. One day, I can hope that players can create and share stories to entertain each other. I don't expect that will happen in my current lifetime.
I've been around since the beginning of D&D. What we think of as RP should evolve, but I'm not certain that it has. Games fail to innovate and fall back on the same concepts and ideas from the 1972 efforts. We still use HPs and AC and levels and other concepts to represent ourselves into our fantasy worlds. Can these really be the best ways to abstract a human (or non-human) entity, especially considering that we now have amazing computing power at our disposal? Still, computer games are beholden to the simple analog dice.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
I mean, the better the RPG, the more likely you are to become immersed, but defining your own role and having that role alter your gameplay experience is not the same thing as immersion, not by a longshot (one is mechanics, the other is empathy)
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
I would agree that few themeparks are condusive to roleplay.
Most MMORPG games are RPG's in the CRPG sense: character selection, advancement, with hopefully some story and worldbuilding thrown in. It's not that bad, but CoH just sparked the imagination in a way that I didn't see any other game do.
I suppose I look at role-playing more from a dramatic standpoint, whereas others might take a more mechanical approach. A good role-playing game invites me in to playing a role without making me feel as though I were "role playing". In short, in situations where I am reacting as my character would inside a game, I am role playing.
Counterstrike is not a role playing game since there is this endless cycle of violence, and I am more concerned with winning matches than, say... sparing a hostile unit's life or walking away alive. I can easily be immersed in said game, however.
The Stanley Parable is a good role playing game, because of the setting and the "fun" factor, which is really an invitation to suspend disbelief. I can easily react as a somewhat clueless office worker under the scrutiny of a Machiavellian corporation would.
Many MMORPGs do a terrible job with the "RP" part; to see this one need look no further than the quest givers standing motionless all day giving out quests to dozens of players walking past in WoW. This draws lots of attention to the fact that one is playing a game and undermines the willing suspension of disbelief.
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
The ability to define your role allows you to connect to that character in a much stronger way, and the ability to express that defined role within the game allows you to start thinking as that character more easily.
For example, playing the latest Zelda, I didn't feel immersed, I always felt like I was controlling Link - a clear disconnect. But, Zelda is not an RPG. Conversely, playing SWG, I fully defined my character, both aesthetically and skill/build wise, so I quite quickly stopped thinking "I'm gonna take my character to Dath and farm rancors" and started with "I'm gonna go to Dath..".
When you are standing around a tavern in your average themepark RP feels forced. Many RP communities dream up additional RP rules to prevent "god mode" and generally you're using the limited mechanics available in the game that promote RP, and fighting the many mechanics in the game they are counter to RP.
A good RPG should be one in which additional mechanics are not needed to RP, nor do you need to sweep the majority of mechanics in the game under the rug to RP. If you choose to go to a tavern and start talking in-character then it should feel natural. The lore of the world. The story your character has developed as they progressed, the gap of power between players, it should all be realistic enough that if you guys decide to go running out into the world to do dungeons or PvP (essentially play the game instead of just talking in a tavern) the entire experience can be done in-character and feel right.
No need to explain why every single one of you is the chosen one born with the special mark your village leader has never seen before despite the fact you all were born in the same 20 man village. No need to explain why your lower level buddies attacks bounce of you harmlessly. No need to explain why that guy you just killed respawned in the same location ten seconds later.
And yeah I agree that immersion and RP do go hand-in-hand in most cases. Because when you create a world like that, then even people who would sooner die than talk in-character will feel a sense of immersion as they play the game.
Don't tell me you are confused between your character and you. Can *you* switch between male and female at will?
Involving yourself deep into your character relates to role playing and being immersed into character.
MMORPG gives you the tools to RP, it's up to you whether or not you choose to participate.
How you and I choose to play ANY MMORPG you decide how much time or involvement you want to make even if it motionless you still are imagining yourself as Battle Mage, a Bad Ass Berserker with big tits, or stealthy rogue taking them from behind. Or you can also ignore it all together.
The youtube video is horeshit, again taking the side of realism in fucking video game. I do not play video games for realism.
It's pure fantasy, fun, and entertainment.
I mean RP as fun thing that exists in some video games, not that I literally think I am the video game character.
Out of curiosity, how would you define role playing?
"The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance
Sparkling wine, cocktail, and delicious wines with a keyboard.
How would I define a cat? And you are expecting an answer like with feathers, wings, and can talk, because that's how it feels to me. I don't like guesstimates or adaptations of things when it's already clearly defined.