MMOs are now Casinos.

11213141618

Comments

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,190
    SEANMCAD said:
    Gdemami said:
    Tuor7 said:
    But to get to your actual point: changing "time" to "money" ignores what was just recently said: everyone has the same amount of time, and everyone *does not* have the same amount of money.
    ...and where do you think those money come from?

    They don't just happen, appear from nowhere, they represent time and effort we spent earning them.
    Our current president had I think it was a 100 million dollar seed money from his daddy
    That would certainly buy a lot of lifetime-insured ships...  A whole armada.  But I guess we're somehow to believe, based on Gdemami's argument, that he earned that over the course of the 9 months in the womb?
    I don't think your argument is wrong... necessarily...

    I mean sure there are people that start with more money when they're born then most of the population would ever see in a lifetime.

    I don't like the time ='s money equation for other reasons.

    Time ='s money at an earnings pace per hour (in many cases) if people want to get technical considering their jobs.  But that is considered time you're working.  Salaried employees would consider that differently, as I'm salaried so, even when I'm not working I make the same amount of money, or.. actually the less I work the more I would technically "make" if you only count time working as an indicator of time equaling money.


    But the premise of time equaling money in games is a different story. Unless you're a youtuber, where streaming a game earns you money, that time you spend doesn't equate to money.  When you consider games that charge 15 dollars a month for game access, and consider a bosses RNG to be the same as loot box gambling, that's an incorrect assessment of my original post, and not correct when depicting your game-time equaling money.

    I agree that time CAN equal money, at an earnings pace in most cases. It doesn't always equal money obviously. When you factor in game-time and entertainment, or just other activities, it makes no sense to see those situations as money-losing scenarios.  If I eat a sandwich for 15 minutes does that mean I have just lost 20 dollars of money-producing time?

    Maybe I'm completely missing the argument here. 

     
    MadFrenchie



  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,190
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    mgilbrtsn said:
    I love me some Casinos.  If an MMO had a blackjack table, I'd never go adventuring, except to get more gold for...you guessed it.  The Blackjack table!
    Back in the old Phantasy Star Universe they had an area that was a roulette table.  I spent many many nights just hanging out at the roulette wheel with my friends.  Granted it didn't use real money, but it was still tons of fun. 
    clearly different people have radically different gaming interests.
    Agreed

    i dunno why that was in italics.

    But the best part was that it didn't cost a thing. They've also had types of gambling in other games too, but that isn't really the type of gambling I meant in the original post.  Most of those cases only utilized in game currencies that couldn't be purchased with real money or traded.
    I think your gaming style is likely the core reason why many of the games I like seem to you to be bad. I have a theory as to why that is but its sensitive 
    I'm pretty sure there are a whole host of reasons the games you like seem bad to me. 



  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    mgilbrtsn said:
    I love me some Casinos.  If an MMO had a blackjack table, I'd never go adventuring, except to get more gold for...you guessed it.  The Blackjack table!
    Back in the old Phantasy Star Universe they had an area that was a roulette table.  I spent many many nights just hanging out at the roulette wheel with my friends.  Granted it didn't use real money, but it was still tons of fun. 
    clearly different people have radically different gaming interests.
    Agreed

    i dunno why that was in italics.

    But the best part was that it didn't cost a thing. They've also had types of gambling in other games too, but that isn't really the type of gambling I meant in the original post.  Most of those cases only utilized in game currencies that couldn't be purchased with real money or traded.
    I think your gaming style is likely the core reason why many of the games I like seem to you to be bad. I have a theory as to why that is but its sensitive 
    I'm pretty sure there are a whole host of reasons the games you like seem bad to me. 
    casual insults aside, I think there is really only 2 but I am not getting into it

    Do NOT respond to this reply if you think the contents of the reply is unwarranted in this discussion. 

    On replying to the content of this reply you are participating in the discussion of its contents

    Current Ignore List: postlarval, cameltosis, VengeSunsoar

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 10,677
    edited August 3
    maskedweasel said:
    If I eat a sandwich for 15 minutes does that mean I have just lost 20 dollars of money-producing time?
    You are getting a hang of it ;-)
    Post edited by Gdemami on
  • Tuor7Tuor7 Bellevue, WAMember UncommonPosts: 756
    Hatefull said:
    He is right however, time does in fact, equal money. At least in my opinion.

    I won't get into the greater discussion, but there are several points of view in the real world on this topic. People with money tend to be looking for ways to make more, ergo they consider their time to be valuable. People that want money, generally fall into this category as well.

    Then there are people that do not care about money and are happy to just get by. I won't go any further into specifics, but this generalization is good enough for the argument at hand.

    Trying to translate this as a resource in a game is also an age old discussion. I have been told (on more than one occasion) that giving away resources is giving away money. Since I do not gauge my enjoyment on the accumulation of wealth in a game, I choose to give my resources away to people that want them. I do not, however, do this irl.

    Basically, the above example is to say: it's far too subjective to say definitively that time = money translates into a tangible resource in a game. For some, it is, for others it is not. 

    Essentially you guys have been trying to convince each other that your point of view is the only correct one, and you are both wrong, and right. It all comes down to opinion.


    I will certainly agree that in a business sense, the saying "Time equals money" has a lot of truth to it. That's because most business people/merchants are focused on making money. That's their goal. So, in order to achieve that goal, they valuate their time based on how much money they're making. If they're *not* making any money (or not much) compared to doing some other activity with that time, then they likely consider that time either wasted or poorly utilized. Why watch a football game if they could be closing a deal that'll make them a fat wad of cash? The whole thing is, as I said, based on achieving an overall goal: making money.

    But, what if making money wasn't your main goal? In that case, for that person, time *does not* equal money.

    People value many things, some more than others. Some people pursue the things that matter to them more single-mindedly than others. Generally, the more single-minded you are in pursuing a goal, the more focused you are on spending as much time as possible pursuing it, and the more you resent any barriers to achieving it. And if your goal is to become as powerful as possible in an MMORPG, then any barriers, including time, that get in your way will be a source of annoyance that needs to be overcome. Some people will use money to do that, and some games will provide means to accommodate that method.

    At any rate, I don't know if my way of looking at things is the "only correct way", but it *is* the way I look at it, and it works for me.
    maskedweaselGdemamiMadFrenchie
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,190
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    mgilbrtsn said:
    I love me some Casinos.  If an MMO had a blackjack table, I'd never go adventuring, except to get more gold for...you guessed it.  The Blackjack table!
    Back in the old Phantasy Star Universe they had an area that was a roulette table.  I spent many many nights just hanging out at the roulette wheel with my friends.  Granted it didn't use real money, but it was still tons of fun. 
    clearly different people have radically different gaming interests.
    Agreed

    i dunno why that was in italics.

    But the best part was that it didn't cost a thing. They've also had types of gambling in other games too, but that isn't really the type of gambling I meant in the original post.  Most of those cases only utilized in game currencies that couldn't be purchased with real money or traded.
    I think your gaming style is likely the core reason why many of the games I like seem to you to be bad. I have a theory as to why that is but its sensitive 
    I'm pretty sure there are a whole host of reasons the games you like seem bad to me. 
    casual insults aside, I think there is really only 2 but I am not getting into it
    I didn't mean it to be an insult to you at all, but I'm pretty sure there will be more than 2 reasons.



  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    mgilbrtsn said:
    I love me some Casinos.  If an MMO had a blackjack table, I'd never go adventuring, except to get more gold for...you guessed it.  The Blackjack table!
    Back in the old Phantasy Star Universe they had an area that was a roulette table.  I spent many many nights just hanging out at the roulette wheel with my friends.  Granted it didn't use real money, but it was still tons of fun. 
    clearly different people have radically different gaming interests.
    Agreed

    i dunno why that was in italics.

    But the best part was that it didn't cost a thing. They've also had types of gambling in other games too, but that isn't really the type of gambling I meant in the original post.  Most of those cases only utilized in game currencies that couldn't be purchased with real money or traded.
    I think your gaming style is likely the core reason why many of the games I like seem to you to be bad. I have a theory as to why that is but its sensitive 
    I'm pretty sure there are a whole host of reasons the games you like seem bad to me. 
    casual insults aside, I think there is really only 2 but I am not getting into it
    I didn't mean it to be an insult to you at all, but I'm pretty sure there will be more than 2 reasons.
    lets not go back and forth on this today..for once.

    Do NOT respond to this reply if you think the contents of the reply is unwarranted in this discussion. 

    On replying to the content of this reply you are participating in the discussion of its contents

    Current Ignore List: postlarval, cameltosis, VengeSunsoar

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 10,677
    Tuor7 said:
    But, what if making money wasn't your main goal? 
    Then nothing, it is irrelevant. Your time still has value.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember RarePosts: 1,903
    edited August 3
    Gdemami said:
    Tuor7 said:
    But, what if making money wasn't your main goal? 
    Then nothing, it is irrelevant. Your time still has value.
    Which he absolutely said.

    Why ignore all of his post to withdraw a single sentence, out of context, to attempt to prove an argument?

    When time is spent visiting with relatives, time isn't money, but it does still have intrinsic value.  Nothing about that equates the two resources (time and money).


    The objective reasoning behind the argument has nothing to do with the value of time itself, either as money or as an intrinsic, non-monetary, reward; it has to do with the equitability of the distribution of the resource among the population.  I used real world data to prove the point.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on
    Tuor7GdemamiIselin

    image
  • Hawkaya399Hawkaya399 Member UncommonPosts: 193
    edited August 3
    It's weird. In RL I've never been interested in Keno or casinos or any of the number of cash games they have now locally in bars and stores. I've never bought a lottery ticket. I've had many opportunities but it's not my thing. I've always thought gambling is too stupid and boring. Yet I love gaming. I loved RPGs from the first moment I played Might and Magic and Daggerfall. I--now this is the odd part--loved random elements. From content standpoint, I felt random items and landscapes countered the high costs of content creation, and in some cases at least the quality loss--if any--is unimportant. I also felt moderate random deviations in coin loot and item quality or damage was more realistic and, for me anyway, believable.

    In sum, I think if a game RELIES almost solely on random rewards to keep you playing then it's more like gambling. If however it has some random deviation in rewards on top of what's foremost strongly decision or information driven gameplay, I think it's complimentary. Think about it, would you be happy if every person looked the same? Or if every car had the same max speed? Or if every surprise was equally surprising? Or if the clouds always moved and looked the same way every new day? That gets repetitive fast. Maybe you feel differently. In my opinion, it's just not immersive.

    The more strategy and information is involved in acquiring the reward, the less like gambling it's. I'll add that too.
    Post edited by Hawkaya399 on
    MadFrenchie
  • EldurianEldurian Member RarePosts: 1,412
    edited August 4
    Tuor7 said:

    People value many things, some more than others. Some people pursue the things that matter to them more single-mindedly than others. Generally, the more single-minded you are in pursuing a goal, the more focused you are on spending as much time as possible pursuing it, and the more you resent any barriers to achieving it. And if your goal is to become as powerful as possible in an MMORPG, then any barriers, including time, that get in your way will be a source of annoyance that needs to be overcome. Some people will use money to do that, and some games will provide means to accommodate that method.
    And that's the point. The point of any game, MMORPGs included, should be to have fun.

    The fact people see getting more powerful as an "annoyance" or an obstacle to overcome is an issue. If the content is fun, people will do it. You don't need some kind of carrot on a stick to get them to do it. It won't be seen as an "annoyance" or "obstacle". It's seen as content. 

    So the game is using time and/or money to give artificial stats as a replacement for the effort required to build player skills through processes that actually tend to be enjoyable. They tend to be enjoyable because in order to get good at the activities you want to do, you do the activities you want to do. Want to be a better at dungeons? Run more dungeons. PvP? Do more PvP.

    Sort of like if you enjoy playing an instrument, you play an instrument to get better at playing it. If you love sports, you play sports to get better at sports. If you love to draw and paint then you draw and paint to get better.

    Grinding on the other hand has you running quests and killing the same creature over and over and over to get better at dungeons and PvP. Or in the cases you can do the content you want to do in order to get better it still gives you an artificial disadvantage beyond the appropriate disadvantage your lack of experience gives you. So if you want to actually enjoy your content of preference on a fair level it's as you say "A source of annoyance that needs to be overcome."

    So when you consider that and re-ask the question "Why watch a football game if they could be closing a deal that'll make them a fat wad of cash?" The answer is because they enjoy watching football, and that enjoyment has a value to them. But as previously stated, if enjoyment was the reason we grind, then we wouldn't need XP rewards. Which leaves one conclusion. The thing that No-Lifers grind for that have value to them is the XP itself, an idea backed up by the fact they constantly keep asking "If we don't get stronger for playing, what is the point of playing?" 

    As such, time and money are currencies I'm using to buy my way past content I don't want to be doing because an artificial barrier has been placed up to cater to people with an addiction. Of those two currencies, time is actually the more valuable IMO. Maybe not for people who were never taught the value of time by their parents, but I would way rather throw 20-40$ at something I perceive as a waste of my time than "earn" it through monotonous and brainless tasks that demand so much of my time that I wouldn't be able to enjoy the rest of my life if I gave it. 

    Post edited by Eldurian on
  • EldurianEldurian Member RarePosts: 1,412
    Tuor7 said:

    People value many things, some more than others. Some people pursue the things that matter to them more single-mindedly than others. Generally, the more single-minded you are in pursuing a goal, the more focused you are on spending as much time as possible pursuing it, and the more you resent any barriers to achieving it. And if your goal is to become as powerful as possible in an MMORPG, then any barriers, including time, that get in your way will be a source of annoyance that needs to be overcome. Some people will use money to do that, and some games will provide means to accommodate that method.
    And that's the point. The point of any game, MMORPGs included, should be to have fun.

    The fact people see getting more powerful as an "annoyance" or an obstacle to overcome is an issue. If the content is fun, people will do it. You don't need some kind of carrot on a stick to get them to do it. It won't be seen as an "annoyance" or "obstacle". It's seen as content. 

    So the game is using time and/or money to give artificial stats as a replacement for the effort required to build player skills through processes that actually tend to be enjoyable. They tend to be enjoyable because in order to get good at the activities you want to do, you do the activities you want to do. Want to be a better at dungeons? Run more dungeons. PvP? Do more PvP.''

    Sort of like if you enjoy playing an instrument, you play an instrument to get better at playing it. If you love sports, you play sports to get better at sports. If you love to draw and paint then you draw and paint to get better.

    Grinding on the other hand has you running quests and killing the same creature over and over and over to get better at dungeons and PvP. So if the content you want to be doing is dungeons and PvP it's as you say "A source of annoyance that needs to be overcome."

    So when you consider that and re-ask the question "Why watch a football game if they could be closing a deal that'll make them a fat wad of cash?" The answer is because they enjoy watching football, and that enjoyment has a value to them. But as previously stated, if enjoyment was the reason we grind, then we wouldn't need XP rewards. Which leaves one conclusion. The thing that No-Lifers grind for that have value to them is the XP itself, an idea backed up by the fact they constantly keep asking "If we don't get stronger for playing, what is the point of playing?" It's all about the addiction. They play to feed their drug addiction (Literally leveling up activates the same reward centers in the brain as drugs, food, sex etc.) while we play for fun.

    As such, time and money are currencies I'm using to buy my way past content I don't want to be doing because an artificial barrier has been placed up to cater to people with an addiction. Of those two currencies, time is actually the more valuable IMO. Maybe not for people who were never taught the value of time by their parents, but I would way rather throw 20-40$ at something I perceive as a waste of my time than "earn" it through monotonous and brainless tasks that demand so much of my time that I wouldn't be able to enjoy the rest of my life if I gave it. 

    MadFrenchieGdemami
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,037

    And that's the point. The point of any game, MMORPGs included, should be to have fun.

    The fact people see getting more powerful as an "annoyance" or an obstacle to overcome is an issue. If the content is fun, people will do it. You don't need some kind of carrot on a stick to get them to do it. It won't be seen as an "annoyance" or "obstacle". It's seen as content. 


    That is why games like Player Unknown Battleground, Overwatch, Hearthstone and MOBAs are taken over online gaming. Those games focus on fun, moment to moment gameplay, and forget about virtual world building. 
    postlarval
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,190

    And that's the point. The point of any game, MMORPGs included, should be to have fun.

    The fact people see getting more powerful as an "annoyance" or an obstacle to overcome is an issue. If the content is fun, people will do it. You don't need some kind of carrot on a stick to get them to do it. It won't be seen as an "annoyance" or "obstacle". It's seen as content. 


    That is why games like Player Unknown Battleground, Overwatch, Hearthstone and MOBAs are taken over online gaming. Those games focus on fun, moment to moment gameplay, and forget about virtual world building. 
    I wouldn't necessarily say they are "taking over".  Games like those are more prevalent than before, but there are a lot of games that appear to have been "taking over" gaming for a while.  Survival games have increased exponentially in the past 5 years and just about every single one is specifically related to virtual world building. 
    MadFrenchie



  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,078

    And that's the point. The point of any game, MMORPGs included, should be to have fun.

    The fact people see getting more powerful as an "annoyance" or an obstacle to overcome is an issue. If the content is fun, people will do it. You don't need some kind of carrot on a stick to get them to do it. It won't be seen as an "annoyance" or "obstacle". It's seen as content. 


    That is why games like Player Unknown Battleground, Overwatch, Hearthstone and MOBAs are taken over online gaming. Those games focus on fun, moment to moment gameplay, and forget about virtual world building. 
    I wouldn't necessarily say they are "taking over".  Games like those are more prevalent than before, but there are a lot of games that appear to have been "taking over" gaming for a while.  Survival games have increased exponentially in the past 5 years and just about every single one is specifically related to virtual world building. 
    the upward curve of adoption of survial games is indeed much steeper than in other genres of the past. This is directly related to the 'indie revolution' era we are currently in which started about 3 years ago which is nearly completely related to bringing the costs of entry into publication to zero as well as all the entry into tools required for development to zero.

    This has cause a HUGE spike in games, so whatever is the trend of the day will have a great deal of that type of game for a full game development lifecycle (about 4 years). Thus, the trend could change and there could then be a huge spike in a different kind of 'genre' but only after the one genre has been exhausted and the pipeline then responds which has a 4 year lag.

    Now I just threw a great deal of information on the table lets see if people can digest it properly.

    Do NOT respond to this reply if you think the contents of the reply is unwarranted in this discussion. 

    On replying to the content of this reply you are participating in the discussion of its contents

    Current Ignore List: postlarval, cameltosis, VengeSunsoar

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 13,729

    And that's the point. The point of any game, MMORPGs included, should be to have fun.

    The fact people see getting more powerful as an "annoyance" or an obstacle to overcome is an issue. If the content is fun, people will do it. You don't need some kind of carrot on a stick to get them to do it. It won't be seen as an "annoyance" or "obstacle". It's seen as content. 


    That is why games like Player Unknown Battleground, Overwatch, Hearthstone and MOBAs are taken over online gaming. Those games focus on fun, moment to moment gameplay, and forget about virtual world building. 
    I wouldn't necessarily say they are "taking over".  Games like those are more prevalent than before, but there are a lot of games that appear to have been "taking over" gaming for a while.  Survival games have increased exponentially in the past 5 years and just about every single one is specifically related to virtual world building. 
    I change that from "taking over" to "have already taken over". The various multiplayer battle arenas, which include FPS and MOBAS, already dominated online play. They've just taken more of the spotlight now with the rising of esports and twitch.
    maskedweasel
    Centuries ago, in primitive times, before the dawn of civilization, there were things that would be inconceivable to us today; such things as poverty, disease, violence, senility, and love.
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon santa clara, CAMember RarePosts: 27,037
    Torval said:

    I change that from "taking over" to "have already taken over". The various multiplayer battle arenas, which include FPS and MOBAS, already dominated online play. They've just taken more of the spotlight now with the rising of esports and twitch.
    activision blizz just announced their quarter result yesterday (or was it day before?).

    If you look at the blizz portion, it is all about Overwatch. Wow is only mentioned passingly. Hearthstone gets some spot-light too. It is clear which way the wind is blowing as far as Activision Blizz is concerned.

    I am a bit miffed that D3 does not get much highlight either .. but D3 does not have a killer ongoing monetarization model like OW and HS. 
  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel houston, TXMember RarePosts: 9,190
    Torval said:

    I change that from "taking over" to "have already taken over". The various multiplayer battle arenas, which include FPS and MOBAS, already dominated online play. They've just taken more of the spotlight now with the rising of esports and twitch.
    activision blizz just announced their quarter result yesterday (or was it day before?).

    If you look at the blizz portion, it is all about Overwatch. Wow is only mentioned passingly. Hearthstone gets some spot-light too. It is clear which way the wind is blowing as far as Activision Blizz is concerned.

    I am a bit miffed that D3 does not get much highlight either .. but D3 does not have a killer ongoing monetarization model like OW and HS. 
    Well, yes and no.  I mean sure we're talking about blizzard.  But Virtual World type games, where you're building large worlds, still have tremendous followings too,  and we're talking about on scales that rival MOBAs and FPS games,  like the rise of Minecraft, and virtual open world games like GTA5.   Both of which it would be tough finding gamers that haven't heard of either of them.

    Monetization of those two.. well..  I'm sure the GTA series will change to a different monetization as time progresses... it's inevitable unfortunately.  How could a game about stealing, cheating and making money end up not having some type of loot box/cash shop?



  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCMember EpicPosts: 4,757
    edited August 4
    Lol at the progression debate. This thread is about the money game, and for the publishers and developers it's a total win. They're bringing in more money per hour played than they've ever dreamed of.

    It's the modern day arcade, keep popping in them quarters, except your doing it from home and on your own machine.

    What a gig 
    Post edited by laserit on
    RufusUOTheScavenger

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 13,729
    laserit said:
    Lol at the progression debate. This thread is about the money game, and for the publishers and developers it's a total win. They're bringing in more money per hour played than they've ever dreamed of.

    It's the modern day arcade, keep popping in them quarters, except your doing it from home and on your own machine.

    What a gig 
    What has the flight sim niche got you to spend on your environment, gear and software? Most hobbies are about companies trying to cash in on the money game - hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, sport, martial arts, marital arts, :lol:
    maskedweasel
    Centuries ago, in primitive times, before the dawn of civilization, there were things that would be inconceivable to us today; such things as poverty, disease, violence, senility, and love.
  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCMember EpicPosts: 4,757
    Torval said:
    laserit said:
    Lol at the progression debate. This thread is about the money game, and for the publishers and developers it's a total win. They're bringing in more money per hour played than they've ever dreamed of.

    It's the modern day arcade, keep popping in them quarters, except your doing it from home and on your own machine.

    What a gig 
    What has the flight sim niche got you to spend on your environment, gear and software? Most hobbies are about companies trying to cash in on the money game - hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, sport, martial arts, marital arts, :lol:

    I've spent $140 on a single airplane. But that is not what this is about.

    It's all about returns.

    I'd love to see the numbers. If anyone is netting 30% or better.... your being fleeced my friend.

    TheScavenger

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • Superman0XSuperman0X San Jose, CAMember UncommonPosts: 1,932
    laserit said:
    Lol at the progression debate. This thread is about the money game, and for the publishers and developers it's a total win. They're bringing in more money per hour played than they've ever dreamed of.

    It's the modern day arcade, keep popping in them quarters, except your doing it from home and on your own machine.

    What a gig 
    Gross Revenue and Net Revenue are extremely different things. I agree that the gross revenue for games is much higher now than it was in the past... However, the net has not changed drastically, and in fact has caused many companies to either scale back, or go under. The margins on todays games are not as good as they used to be, and companies need to be much more efficient to compete in todays markets.
    TorvalMadFrenchie
  • EldurianEldurian Member RarePosts: 1,412
    edited August 4
    And that's the point. The point of any game, MMORPGs included, should be to have fun.

    The fact people see getting more powerful as an "annoyance" or an obstacle to overcome is an issue. If the content is fun, people will do it. You don't need some kind of carrot on a stick to get them to do it. It won't be seen as an "annoyance" or "obstacle". It's seen as content. 


    That is why games like Player Unknown Battleground, Overwatch, Hearthstone and MOBAs are taken over online gaming. Those games focus on fun, moment to moment gameplay, and forget about virtual world building. 
    If virtual world building was the problem then Minecraft wouldn't be one of the most popular games of all time, and certainly one of the biggest in the past few years. We wouldn't be going through the huge survival game craze we right now.

    Virtual world building is fine. Building and immersion are content many people find fun, and that is mostly ignored by those who don't. Artificially gating content behind a grinding or pay to win barrier for everyone is what separates successful games from an entire MMO market in decline. It forces people to do content they don't want to, and that's the issue. That's why on most populated servers in survival games, if there is even a grind in the game it's been reduced to almost nothing by the people who run the server.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
    MadFrenchieGdemami
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember RarePosts: 1,903
    Eldurian said:
    And that's the point. The point of any game, MMORPGs included, should be to have fun.

    The fact people see getting more powerful as an "annoyance" or an obstacle to overcome is an issue. If the content is fun, people will do it. You don't need some kind of carrot on a stick to get them to do it. It won't be seen as an "annoyance" or "obstacle". It's seen as content. 


    That is why games like Player Unknown Battleground, Overwatch, Hearthstone and MOBAs are taken over online gaming. Those games focus on fun, moment to moment gameplay, and forget about virtual world building. 
    If virtual world building was the problem then Minecraft wouldn't be one of the most popular games of all time, and certainly one of the biggest in the past few years. We wouldn't be going through the huge survival game craze we right now.

    Virtual world building is fine. Building and immersion are content many people find fun, and that is mostly ignored by those who don't. Artificially gating content behind a grinding or pay to win barrier for everyone is what separates successful games from an entire MMO market in decline. It forces people to do content they don't want to, and that's the issue. That's why on most populated servers in survival games, if there is even a grind in the game it's been reduced to almost nothing by the people who run the server.
    Strange how we could disagree so vehemently over a closely related topic, but my initial thought after reading this post was to hit "Agree".

    The fact that we even have the term "gating content" shows how hard MMORPGs have fallen into the trap of "the real fun doesn't start til endgame."  That's one of the worst tropes of the genre, along with the idea that MMORPGs can somehow attempt to compete with, say, the action combat of a game much smaller in scope. 

    Better to focus on emphasizing what MMORPGs can offer that other genres cannot.
    Iselin

    image
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 9,686
    Eldurian said:
    And that's the point. The point of any game, MMORPGs included, should be to have fun.

    The fact people see getting more powerful as an "annoyance" or an obstacle to overcome is an issue. If the content is fun, people will do it. You don't need some kind of carrot on a stick to get them to do it. It won't be seen as an "annoyance" or "obstacle". It's seen as content. 


    That is why games like Player Unknown Battleground, Overwatch, Hearthstone and MOBAs are taken over online gaming. Those games focus on fun, moment to moment gameplay, and forget about virtual world building. 
    If virtual world building was the problem then Minecraft wouldn't be one of the most popular games of all time, and certainly one of the biggest in the past few years. We wouldn't be going through the huge survival game craze we right now.

    Virtual world building is fine. Building and immersion are content many people find fun, and that is mostly ignored by those who don't. Artificially gating content behind a grinding or pay to win barrier for everyone is what separates successful games from an entire MMO market in decline. It forces people to do content they don't want to, and that's the issue. That's why on most populated servers in survival games, if there is even a grind in the game it's been reduced to almost nothing by the people who run the server.
    Strange how we could disagree so vehemently over a closely related topic, but my initial thought after reading this post was to hit "Agree".

    The fact that we even have the term "gating content" shows how hard MMORPGs have fallen into the trap of "the real fun doesn't start til endgame."  That's one of the worst tropes of the genre, along with the idea that MMORPGs can somehow attempt to compete with, say, the action combat of a game much smaller in scope. 

    Better to focus on emphasizing what MMORPGs can offer that other genres cannot.
    I don't really play any MMORPGs unless the leveling is enjoyable since I know that I will level alts to compare different classes/skill sets with each other. I have always thought that rushing to end game was a weird motivation for playing them since that is the part of them that least appeals to me.

    On the subject of playing to their strengths... this has been one of my constant criticisms of the genre for a long time. Shoehorning single player quests as the main leveling mechanic just seems like such a waste of resources to me when their focus should really be on creating new reasons to group casually or formally - not in a retro "let's make all content hard for soloers" way but more like building on the zone or game-wide threats that can't be ignored like Rift, GW2 and others have flirted with.

    We need that group/community activity with consequences development focus to really make them stand out as something fun and unique instead of being perceived by some as an annoyance that needs to be endured in order to get to the good stuff.
    GdemamiMadFrenchie
    When you come to a fork on the road, take it.
    You can observe a lot by just watching.
    No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded.

    -- Yogi --
Sign In or Register to comment.