After trying various MMOs - WoW is still the highest quality

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  • BroccolehBroccoleh Member CommonPosts: 1
    Wow is polished yes, possibly the most polished mmo out there but even that took a big dive with Legion. The latest expansion is the most unpolished version of this game I've ever seen, but that is still not the biggest problem with this game.

    Wow used to be deep, full of flexibility and thoughtful ways to personalize, theorycraft and perfect your character and gameplay. But then we're talking about vanilla and tbc (at some extent wotlk). Since then, mechanics have been dumbed down to the point where you only have one theoretical route for making your character optimized. Not only that, but to truly optimize yourself in the current state of the game it's more about rolling the correct fotmclass at the correct time where constant rerolling of gamebalance puts your class ahead. Counterplay is limited and almost non-existent. Noteable with the latest arenatournaments on twitch, you see players rolling on alts beating specialized comps that some people mained and perfected for 10 years, with little practice, just because counterplay is now replaced with counterclass/comp.

    Being good at this game isn't really a thing anymore, the pruning lowered the skillcap so much you can hardly differ between the good, the bad and the best players anymore. I hit gladrating noskype with randoms from trade when my class was in a good spot balancewise, then the next season I lost alot of games vs sub 2k mmr teams just because my class was now the bottom of the foodchain and literally unplayable. Any clown could win games just by rolling the correct class and comp and there was little to nothing I could do as an individual to counter it. All the while I'm the same player that hit 2k mmr 1vs2'ing people in 2v2 once upon a time when outplaying was a real thing.

    This game needs to die to give room for new and better ideas. I would recommend ESO right now, they're doing alot of things better although there's still alot to improve on in that game as well. At least it's nowhere near as shallow as Legion is.

    My2c from mainly a pvp pov.
    ZenJelly
  • LynxJSALynxJSA Sarasota, FLMember RarePosts: 3,186
    I liked the WOW I played when it first came out. The current incarnation just seems like a mess of things throwing tasks, rewards, and achievements at me. The story arc for each area also seemed more obvious and engaging back when I first played than it does now. The gameplay is def there for people who want progression, but I find games like Elder Scrolls Online and Guild Wars 2 to be much higher quality across the board. 
  • HarikenHariken Brighton, MAMember RarePosts: 1,695
    I agree, if you want a PvE themepark experience, you can't beat WoW.  Nothing else comes even close to Blizzard's level of polish.  People love to hate it, but its success over the years speaks for itself.
    The fact that its still #1 shows just how crap these other games are. 
    deniterZenJelly
  • Loke666Loke666 KalmarMember EpicPosts: 20,811
    Hariken said:
    I agree, if you want a PvE themepark experience, you can't beat WoW.  Nothing else comes even close to Blizzard's level of polish.  People love to hate it, but its success over the years speaks for itself.
    The fact that its still #1 shows just how crap these other games are. 
    Popularity does not equal quality or Justin Bieber would be better then Mozart.

    Yes, Wow was a good game and still is if less so but just because Wow have more subs then another game does not mean the other game is crap.

    Some games target smaller groups like Eve but does it well. Other games use different models but do earn an insane amount of money, comparing games like Blade & soul that is the highest netting game in Korea now (which is bloody impressive since Lineage had about 4 million players the last few years and B&S still earn more according to NC softs report they released today) with Wow is close to impossible.

    So according to the most successful theory the three best MMOs ever would be Wow, Lineage and B&S (ok, the last might be a stretch since it is rather new). Lineage is more then 5 years older then Wow and still have almost as many subscribers so you could argue that it is equally good unless you don't count Koreans for some reason.

    There are other good MMOs out there besides Wow, ESO, GW2 and FF XIV are all good games and so was Everquest which the employees that made Wow played (Kaplan got the job after Morhaime and him became friends since they played in the same raid guild). Without Everquest there would be no Wow so don't tell us it was crap.
    drivendawn
  • RockardRockard AthensMember UncommonPosts: 180
    The thing is that WoW is continuously evolving.
    Take questing for example.
    It started out with the traditional billion quests that you forget about immediately after finishing them,and in the past 2 expansions it got modernized with  clearly defined quest lines in each zone,almost 100% phased both in terms of the environment as well as the NPCs.That is more next gen than any of the newer next gen games that can't even phase out  expired versions of story important characters,and spit out versions of the same NPC all over the place.

    It still lacks a lot in the combat/animations and multiplayer content department,and to me plays more like a single player game with multiplayer options.There's nothing massive about a 40v40 battle ground or a 25 man raid anymore,and there's very little open world content that gets trivialised by gear and overleveling.

    But WoW won't die simply because it keeps reinventing it self,and 99% of it's antagonists are not ambitious or competent enough to advance the genre beyond WoW.
  • strykr619strykr619 San Diego, CAMember UncommonPosts: 193
    WoW better then ESO? Visually uhhh NO, gameplay wise uhhhh NO. Lorewise uhhh NO. 
    ZenJellysubxaero
  • RawynRawyn USAMember UncommonPosts: 182
    I agree, if you want a PvE themepark experience, you can't beat WoW.  Nothing else comes even close to Blizzard's level of polish.  People love to hate it, but its success over the years speaks for itself.
    So true. Its so easy to jump back in and enjoy when you take a few months break or years really. People like to hate on Wow but to me it's the best MMO out there. I try out new MMOs when they come out but nothing keeps me playing past a month or so, I always end up back in Azeroth. Loving Legion 
  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYMember UncommonPosts: 1,200
    strykr619 said:
    WoW better then ESO? Visually uhhh NO, gameplay wise uhhhh NO. Lorewise uhhh NO. 
    Well of course thats subjective.  I play both WoW and ESO and from my perspective WoW is definitely more visually appealing than ESO (which I find to be muted and drab).  ESO gameplay is fun but I get bored of it quickly.  WoW being more diverse gameplay wise is better (for me).  Lore wise I think ESO is too overly dark for my tastes, and WoW lore doesnt make any sense to me at all. So both are a loss for me.
    marganculos

    image
  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYMember UncommonPosts: 1,200
    Loke666 said:
    Hariken said:
    I agree, if you want a PvE themepark experience, you can't beat WoW.  Nothing else comes even close to Blizzard's level of polish.  People love to hate it, but its success over the years speaks for itself.
    The fact that its still #1 shows just how crap these other games are. 
    Popularity does not equal quality or Justin Bieber would be better then Mozart.

    Yes, Wow was a good game and still is if less so but just because Wow have more subs then another game does not mean the other game is crap.

    Some games target smaller groups like Eve but does it well. Other games use different models but do earn an insane amount of money, comparing games like Blade & soul that is the highest netting game in Korea now (which is bloody impressive since Lineage had about 4 million players the last few years and B&S still earn more according to NC softs report they released today) with Wow is close to impossible.

    So according to the most successful theory the three best MMOs ever would be Wow, Lineage and B&S (ok, the last might be a stretch since it is rather new). Lineage is more then 5 years older then Wow and still have almost as many subscribers so you could argue that it is equally good unless you don't count Koreans for some reason.

    There are other good MMOs out there besides Wow, ESO, GW2 and FF XIV are all good games and so was Everquest which the employees that made Wow played (Kaplan got the job after Morhaime and him became friends since they played in the same raid guild). Without Everquest there would be no Wow so don't tell us it was crap.
    100% agree here.  Everquest is the poster child of what an MMO should be in my eyes.  It just needs to be updated and modernized.  WoW is a great evolution and regardless of what people, it just not be for everyone.

    But not only have MMOs changed, society in general has changed as well and that influences game design. Proliferation of online communications, the popularity of video games going mainstream (challenging if not eclipsing movies as the #1 entertainment medium), and culture of share everything evolved the concept of MMOs from role playing online in a digital world to more of a lobby environment when you jump in for quick rewards and progression.

    I feel the reason why a game like Everquest would never be modernized is because not enough people would play it (beyond its niche).  No one wants to work slowly to build something, they want quick action hence we have BDO, Blade and Soul and to a lesser extent GW2 and Wildstar.

    Therfore the closest thing I have that is convenient (being a dad and working family man) is WoW, which even with its old age still manages to be fun to log in from day to day with something always for me to do. 

    image
  • deniterdeniter KouvolaMember UncommonPosts: 1,111
    If you're talking about year 2005 WoW i can agree wholeheartedly, and that's sad really.

    This new Legion-WoW, however, is nothing more that Dragon Age Origins in steroids.
  • Quizar1973Quizar1973 Harold, KYMember UncommonPosts: 107
    I think Legion Is the best Expantion yet with WoD comin in a close second....
  • MaurgrimMaurgrim Member RarePosts: 792
    Yes WoW and EQ has the most "content", but they are all the same, copy paste generic quests then you go raiding for pixles that really don't mean shit when the next x-pack goes live and you have to do it all over again, sure if you enjoy that, kuddos to you, me I don't want to waste time for pointless pixles.
  • PhaineinPhainein Ewa Beach, HIMember UncommonPosts: 22
    "Hey gaiz, I tried 3 other games and none of them are as good as WoW so WoW is still the best."

    Tera combat still beats WoW. I just wish I had more friends that play it. At the end of the day that matters to me more than anything. Tera (and games with combat systems like it) combat is engaging. I went back to WoW after playing it and simply couldn't be arsed to auto target. I also like the gothy art style and the way costumes and the store works, since it's not P2W. But even Tera is aging and I doubt we'll see any more major content updates due to the Korean developer selling it.

    WoW has a lot of different stuff that appeals to different people (WoW Pokemon for instance). But there's really a huge vacuum of MMOs that are coming out. The problem with too many small time MMOs, while many argue is good because of choice, is that it splits the gaming population and makes them all less successful. All of the MMOs on the development table right now have gimmicks I am leery of. I will probably end up picking up Destiny 2 for PC simply because there's nothing else I'm confident will give me a solid gameplay experience on. I'd love to be wrong about that.
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,165
    As a heads up, since this thread is active again. I actually moved to Elite Dangerous and Ultima Online.

    Both games allow you to 100% solo the entire game without relying on groups (UO does need the right character template though). However, despite that, in UO I've done so many social events and have made more friends in a week or two than I made in all of my time in WoW. 

    And Elite Dangerous is fun, though in truth haven't fully gotten into it. Even with an xbox one controller, there are so many controls to remember that if I don't play every day, I forget what to do and have to start over to do the tutorial again lol. Eventually I'll actually remember what does what though :P

    My adult gaming and mods website (various games, adult mods, screenshots, stories and other games I play(ed) 

    http://nsfwgaming.wixsite.com/adultgamingandmods

    And my Youtube channel (for nature/relaxation/meditation videos)

    https://www.youtube.com/user/Vendayn


  • ChildoftheShadowsChildoftheShadows Member UncommonPosts: 81
    But two friends joined me from WoW stopped playing and both went back to WoW, and I kinda lost any motivation to play.
    When you've played with friends in one game, it's nearly impossible to move by yourself if you're not a self motivated player. It was inevitable that you would go back to WoW.
  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 3,441
    edited September 2
    But two friends joined me from WoW stopped playing and both went back to WoW, and I kinda lost any motivation to play.
    When you've played with friends in one game, it's nearly impossible to move by yourself if you're not a self motivated player. It was inevitable that you would go back to WoW.
    For the most part I find it true but honestly it really does depend. Most people I've played with through other games like FFXI and briefly in other f2p titles (Rift probably being the longest f2p title I've played consistently out of the rest) just tend to quit it on their own. It also doesn't help that the game's direction keeps shifting in this placebo way, where they keep raising the floor and lowering the ceiling to make everyone feel of in range of each other.

    On a more positive note, WoW does display a lot more polish and degree of forethought compared to its competition (FFXIV included). That's honestly be a driving factor of why I used to go back to the game, even though I might not anymore, due to the lazy type of content I feel they are going to continue to produce. My reference to lazy content being pretty much making a set amount of content and just adding modes to it vs just making different types of content for different skill levels.
    Post edited by Albatroes on
  • ShinamiShinami Sacramento, CAMember UncommonPosts: 770
    I am not a fan of WoW, but I recognize what its existence has done. 

    We like to tell people "Put up or Shut up" after being challenged. Blizzard did that and themsome. Not only did they throw a large budget into their game, they kept working on it throughout the years. 

    Other developers tried to match up and while some came close, most of them ultimately failed. So it went from "WoW is amazing and new" to "WoW is the reason why the MMO Genre failed" attitude. 

    Kind of reminds me of the five tiers of hatred. 
    Of course there is a jealousy everywhere too..

    Blizzard has this Subscription Based MMO that still makes money and sells expansions and everyone is angry that they can't duplicate WoW's success. 

    A shining example that when push comes to shove, Americans are capable of getting their act together and releasing a product that can challenge the rest of the world's offerings to the point that now the rest of the world takes stabs at it while simultaneously trying to clone the success of the game, with utter failure..

    I in particular do not like the game. 
    However, I respect its success and how it forced every other loser of a game out there to go F2P, which was the equivalent to waving a giant white flag that sent the message of "We surrender, but please play our games anyway!" 

    Its up to everyone to beat out Blizzard, 
    and what Blizzard has proven is that in its existence...

    Instead of coming up with original ideas,
    other developers just try making their generic games rather than make anything meaningful. 

    For every one decent to good game that comes out, we have like what... 5 - 10 games that are absolute and utter nonsense! :P This coming from a company that developed a game with a poor launch, but cleaned up its act... proof that some mistakes are forgiven and its not just merciless crap. 
  • TillerTiller Member RarePosts: 6,154
    Funny thing is I started playing SWG while I waiting for WoW back in 2003. Guess I fell in love with the wrong game. After WoW helped kill SWG I had nothing better to do so I bought it, played it, leveled a few characters. It felt restrictive like I was in a smaller box and it just seemed wrong, like I was like sleeping with the enemy, so I uninstalled and never went back.  These days I play themepark MMOs like GW2, ESO ect, but never again will I touch that dirty game called World of Warcraft. xD




    pantaro





  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member RarePosts: 1,726
    Tiller said:
    Funny thing is I started playing SWG while I waiting for WoW back in 2003. Guess I fell in love with the wrong game. After WoW helped kill SWG I had nothing better to do so I bought it, played it, leveled a few characters. It felt restrictive like I was in a smaller box and it just seemed wrong, like I was like sleeping with the enemy, so I uninstalled and never went back.  These days I play themepark MMOs like GW2, ESO ect, but never again will I touch that dirty game called World of Warcraft. xD





    You know what killed SWG?  SWG killed SWG.  People love to wax nostalgic about it, but all in all, other than the social aspect, it was a pretty buggy, laggy, poor game.  I know, I was there for a lot of it.  If it was as great as people like to remember, it might still be around today.
  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,248
    Tiller said:
    Funny thing is I started playing SWG while I waiting for WoW back in 2003. Guess I fell in love with the wrong game. After WoW helped kill SWG I had nothing better to do so I bought it, played it, leveled a few characters. It felt restrictive like I was in a smaller box and it just seemed wrong, like I was like sleeping with the enemy, so I uninstalled and never went back.  These days I play themepark MMOs like GW2, ESO ect, but never again will I touch that dirty game called World of Warcraft. xD





    You know what killed SWG?  SWG killed SWG.  People love to wax nostalgic about it, but all in all, other than the social aspect, it was a pretty buggy, laggy, poor game.  I know, I was there for a lot of it.  If it was as great as people like to remember, it might still be around today.
    New players are less forgiving, I must admit. I went back to play the emulator and invited a friend. Now he is mad at me for buying the games because he couldn't understand he had to pay attention to do anything. The game wouldn't "think" for you - Something most modern mmo's do: Like if you do something you shouldn't the game wouldn't let you do it, but if you spam attack your attack log on SWG would fuck you in the ass if you try to do anything else. 

    I was trying to teach him how to play and he was literally freaking out on discord. It is one example, but the more I play different games and dive in different communities the more I see his behavior echoing through gaming fanbases: People want things now with little no effort and are really not forgiving if something is not polished to the point of basically playing it out for you.

    FFS, ppl use add-on on WoW for things that pop up on screen that anyone with functional eyes can read - yet they feel the need for more visual and audio aid.

    " Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
    —Urza

    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • Loke666Loke666 KalmarMember EpicPosts: 20,811
    100% agree here.  Everquest is the poster child of what an MMO should be in my eyes.  It just needs to be updated and modernized.  WoW is a great evolution and regardless of what people, it just not be for everyone.

    But not only have MMOs changed, society in general has changed as well and that influences game design. Proliferation of online communications, the popularity of video games going mainstream (challenging if not eclipsing movies as the #1 entertainment medium), and culture of share everything evolved the concept of MMOs from role playing online in a digital world to more of a lobby environment when you jump in for quick rewards and progression.

    I feel the reason why a game like Everquest would never be modernized is because not enough people would play it (beyond its niche).  No one wants to work slowly to build something, they want quick action hence we have BDO, Blade and Soul and to a lesser extent GW2 and Wildstar.

    Therfore the closest thing I have that is convenient (being a dad and working family man) is WoW, which even with its old age still manages to be fun to log in from day to day with something always for me to do. 
    Well, I think you are a bit too nostalgic there. EQ was an amazing game and there are certainly parts of it that would still work today but not all things were that great.

    Now, remove the boring quests (while EQ had some brilliant ones it certainly had more then it's share of tedious crap quests), add in some DEs. Total makeover of the crafting (it was rather boring) and we might be getting somewhere.

    My point is that when you facelift the game you might as well improve the things less brilliant. Keep the difficulty and leveling speed though, frankly if you put the same difficulty and leveling speed in any of the quick action games you mentioned they would be rather oldschool.

    Personally do I think Wow feel far quicker then any game you mentioned but I guess that is just a personal preference, I plan to get my oldschool feeling in Pantheon when it goes live.
  • luclinraiderluclinraider Oakdale, CAMember UncommonPosts: 71
    The problem with WoW is how easy it is.

    If you have like 2 hours a week to play games...such as working parents, then it's ok. But even in that situation I think other MMO's are better like GW2 because you dont have to pay a monthly fee to play 8 hours a month.

    For dedicated players, you finish all of WoW's content in 2 weeks max.

    I came back for this last expansion, hit max level in 2 days, had full epics with weapons mostly unlocked by the 1 week mark, and had cleared the raids by the 2 week mark........guess I'm done.

    I remember in Vanilla WoW and BC....it took a long time to finish off the PvE content...now it's just too easy.

    GW2 has plenty of long term goals such as legendary gear, and I found their raids to be more mechanical than WoW which was more about the gear treadmill. 

    Also, if you're feeling old school, EQ1 and EQ2 have really strong PvE content with tons of Lore behind it.

    Sorry, but WoW's PvE leaves a lot to be desired.
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros USMember EpicPosts: 1,812
    edited September 2
    World of Warcraft at one point was the best themepark MMO ever created.  Now?  Not so much.  It's degraded into a loot pinata that a mentally-challenged child could excel at while one hand was tied behind their back.  There's no challenge left if you're not at the highest levels of play.  But at one time, it was the best.
    Post edited by SedrynTyros on
    borghive49
  • borghive49borghive49 Pittsburgh, PAMember RarePosts: 325
    I guess people who played MMOs in 2005 didn't have jobs, school or a social life lol. I never understood why Blizzard had this mindset of streamlining their game into the dull piece of crap it is today in order to cater to people who really don't like MMOs. 
    SedrynTyrosmarganculos
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 12,987
    Wow was the little sister to EQ2.Wow=no housing
    EQ2 great housing and lots of crafting for housing
    Eq2 first had the AA's and item discoveries,all ideas Blizzard wanted or tried to COPY.
    Wow had way bigger numbers at all times,both games started basically the same time.This means with so many in Wow the majority never even tried EQ2 to know better,so no an opinion but FACT,Wow was simply a bigger success based on NON gaming factors like luck,marketing perhaps even their selfish gaming platform that to this day is just there to advertise even more games.
    While people were supporting that selfish Battle.net myself and others more fortunate were gaming on Heat.net a versatile platform that allowed us to play various games and even host our own private server as well giving away daily prizes.

    So yeah,i was actually there unlike most others,Blizzard and Wow were highly over rated by their own massive marketing and buying up positive reviews before the FTC started clamping down on illegal marketing tactics.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

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