Looks like ESO is now over the 10 Million units sold mark

24

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,222
    It's good to see MMOs like ESO holding their own in a challenging market where the masses have all marched off to pursue other genres.
    ExcessionMrMelGibson

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,222
    SEANMCAD said:
    Talonsin said:
    I think the game is solid and their pricing model is actually fair.  To sell 10 million copies is a nice achievement.  I remember back in 2012 when EA was hyping SWTOR because it had sold over 2 million copies.  Ark is a solid game and has only sold around 5 million copies.
    1. Ark has been avaible for purchase for less time
    2. Ark is an Early Access title which alone scares a lot of people off
    3. Ark doesnt remotely have in the same universe level of marketing spending and stradegy as Elder Scrolls title has and YES that makes a huge difference
    4. Ark doesnt have name branding like 'elder scrolls'

    its more accurate to compare Ark to Flappy Birds
    It is more accurate to compare MMORPG sales to other MMORPGs.
    ExcessionXodicMrMelGibson

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,082
    Kyleran said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Talonsin said:
    I think the game is solid and their pricing model is actually fair.  To sell 10 million copies is a nice achievement.  I remember back in 2012 when EA was hyping SWTOR because it had sold over 2 million copies.  Ark is a solid game and has only sold around 5 million copies.
    1. Ark has been avaible for purchase for less time
    2. Ark is an Early Access title which alone scares a lot of people off
    3. Ark doesnt remotely have in the same universe level of marketing spending and stradegy as Elder Scrolls title has and YES that makes a huge difference
    4. Ark doesnt have name branding like 'elder scrolls'

    its more accurate to compare Ark to Flappy Birds
    It is more accurate to compare MMORPG sales to other MMORPGs.
    no its not.

    comparing the sales of Wurm to the sales of WoW or ESO is silly. THose games easily have marketing budgets larger then the entire development of a game like Wurm. 

    its delisional to think the two are in the same playing field when it comes to marketing
    ExcessionMrMelGibson

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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,222
    edited June 12
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kyleran said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Talonsin said:
    I think the game is solid and their pricing model is actually fair.  To sell 10 million copies is a nice achievement.  I remember back in 2012 when EA was hyping SWTOR because it had sold over 2 million copies.  Ark is a solid game and has only sold around 5 million copies.
    1. Ark has been avaible for purchase for less time
    2. Ark is an Early Access title which alone scares a lot of people off
    3. Ark doesnt remotely have in the same universe level of marketing spending and stradegy as Elder Scrolls title has and YES that makes a huge difference
    4. Ark doesnt have name branding like 'elder scrolls'

    its more accurate to compare Ark to Flappy Birds
    It is more accurate to compare MMORPG sales to other MMORPGs.
    no its not.

    comparing the sales of Wurm to the sales of WoW or ESO is silly. THose games easily have marketing budgets larger then the entire development of a game like Wurm. 

    its delisional to think the two are in the same playing field when it comes to marketing
    You do go all over the map. You didn't mention WURM, you put forth several non MMORPGs as examples to downplay the ESO figures 

    So lets compare it to all of the indie MMORPGS which have wildly successful sales with no marketing budget.

    Wait, you can't.  Now if you want to compare the success of GTA (all 5 versions) to Minecraft, go for it.
    Post edited by Kyleran on
    ExcessionConstantineMerusMrMelGibsonNyghthowler

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • XodicXodic RealityMember RarePosts: 670
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kyleran said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Talonsin said:
    I think the game is solid and their pricing model is actually fair.  To sell 10 million copies is a nice achievement.  I remember back in 2012 when EA was hyping SWTOR because it had sold over 2 million copies.  Ark is a solid game and has only sold around 5 million copies.
    1. Ark has been avaible for purchase for less time
    2. Ark is an Early Access title which alone scares a lot of people off
    3. Ark doesnt remotely have in the same universe level of marketing spending and stradegy as Elder Scrolls title has and YES that makes a huge difference
    4. Ark doesnt have name branding like 'elder scrolls'

    its more accurate to compare Ark to Flappy Birds
    It is more accurate to compare MMORPG sales to other MMORPGs.
    no its not.

    comparing the sales of Wurm to the sales of WoW or ESO is silly. THose games easily have marketing budgets larger then the entire development of a game like Wurm. 

    its delisional to think the two are in the same playing field when it comes to marketing
    If it's delusional to compare Wurm to Wow when it comes to marketing, why would you compare games that are in completely different markets?
    MrMelGibsonExcession
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,082
    Xodic said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kyleran said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Talonsin said:
    I think the game is solid and their pricing model is actually fair.  To sell 10 million copies is a nice achievement.  I remember back in 2012 when EA was hyping SWTOR because it had sold over 2 million copies.  Ark is a solid game and has only sold around 5 million copies.
    1. Ark has been avaible for purchase for less time
    2. Ark is an Early Access title which alone scares a lot of people off
    3. Ark doesnt remotely have in the same universe level of marketing spending and stradegy as Elder Scrolls title has and YES that makes a huge difference
    4. Ark doesnt have name branding like 'elder scrolls'

    its more accurate to compare Ark to Flappy Birds
    It is more accurate to compare MMORPG sales to other MMORPGs.
    no its not.

    comparing the sales of Wurm to the sales of WoW or ESO is silly. THose games easily have marketing budgets larger then the entire development of a game like Wurm. 

    its delisional to think the two are in the same playing field when it comes to marketing
    If it's delusional to compare Wurm to Wow when it comes to marketing, why would you compare games that are in completely different markets?
    oh so we can only compare MMO to MMO and only to a specific market.

    sounds like special snowflakism to me
    CalexNebilimpostlarval

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  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIMember RarePosts: 9,108
    I predicted 10 million before launch... JS feel free to scroll through discussion  ;)
    SlyLoKBislobo
  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXMember EpicPosts: 5,156
    My dad is better than your dad cause he said so. Seriously, are we actually having a fight over games being more successful when the thread is simply stating ESO has sold over 10 million units? Relax people, the gaming industry isn't going to save the human race from anything anytime soon.
    MrMelGibsonJeleenaOctagon7711Nyghthowler

  • XodicXodic RealityMember RarePosts: 670
    SEANMCAD said:
    Xodic said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kyleran said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Talonsin said:
    I think the game is solid and their pricing model is actually fair.  To sell 10 million copies is a nice achievement.  I remember back in 2012 when EA was hyping SWTOR because it had sold over 2 million copies.  Ark is a solid game and has only sold around 5 million copies.
    1. Ark has been avaible for purchase for less time
    2. Ark is an Early Access title which alone scares a lot of people off
    3. Ark doesnt remotely have in the same universe level of marketing spending and stradegy as Elder Scrolls title has and YES that makes a huge difference
    4. Ark doesnt have name branding like 'elder scrolls'

    its more accurate to compare Ark to Flappy Birds
    It is more accurate to compare MMORPG sales to other MMORPGs.
    no its not.

    comparing the sales of Wurm to the sales of WoW or ESO is silly. THose games easily have marketing budgets larger then the entire development of a game like Wurm. 

    its delisional to think the two are in the same playing field when it comes to marketing
    If it's delusional to compare Wurm to Wow when it comes to marketing, why would you compare games that are in completely different markets?
    oh so we can only compare MMO to MMO and only to a specific market.

    sounds like special snowflakism to me
    OK, so in your bout with deductive reasoning, you compare a mobile game, a survival game and an MMORPG in order to quantify marketing - without ever considering that they're completely different markets?

    Carry on then.
    sumdumguy1MrMelGibsonExcessionNyghthowler
  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 A galaxy far far awayMember UncommonPosts: 1,137
    edited June 12
    Ironically a colleague at work purchased this game for him and his son to play about a week ago and he is a pretty casual gamer.  He comes up to me today and says wow, ESO is nothing like skyrim, they sure took a big step backwards.     How do people accept this after skyrim was released?  I told him its a different type of game explaining a MMO and single player experience.  He said well these mmo's have  a way to go.   I just let it go but my point is there are many people out there just like this who don't understand the basic differences.  Remember on here were are the small percentage of a much larger community.
    Post edited by sumdumguy1 on
    Xodic
  • XodicXodic RealityMember RarePosts: 670
    Ironically a colleague at work purchased this game for him and his son to play about a week ago and he is a pretty casual gamer.  He comes up to me today and says wow, ESO is nothing like skyrim, they sure took a big step backwards.     How do people accept this after skyrim was released?  I told him its a different type of game explaining a MMO and single player experience.  He said well these mmo's have  a way to go.   I just let it go but my point is there are many people out there just like this who don't understand the basic differences.  Remember on here were are the small percentage of a much larger community.
    Do you think that because ESO portrays itself as a single player experience from the very beginning has something do with people like him feeling the way they do about playing a modern MMO for their first MMO?

    I would probably feel the same way. " These MMOs have a way to go". I mean, I can't blame him for viewing it as a step back from Skyrim when you have to go out of your way and force the MMO experience.
  • cheyanecheyane EarthMember EpicPosts: 4,784
    This is good news for a great game. I think any good news in this genre is good for the genre as a whole.
    XodicBisloboExcessionJeleenaNyghthowler
    image
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAMember RarePosts: 2,213
    Great.. slowly climbing the sales ladder.
    Bislobo

    image

  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 9,891
    Ironically a colleague at work purchased this game for him and his son to play about a week ago and he is a pretty casual gamer.  He comes up to me today and says wow, ESO is nothing like skyrim, they sure took a big step backwards.     How do people accept this after skyrim was released?  I told him its a different type of game explaining a MMO and single player experience.  He said well these mmo's have  a way to go.   I just let it go but my point is there are many people out there just like this who don't understand the basic differences.  Remember on here were are the small percentage of a much larger community.
    It's like WOW was 10 years ago in the sense that it's bringing many into MMOs for the first time. And not just because it's on consoles.

    I think it's partly because it's Bethesda and many players have played either ES and/or Fallout games so there's some brand name recognition. It's more likely to be at least glanced at my those who don't play MMOs.

    That and the fact that the original release negativity is 3 years in the past and they mostly get good press these days because it has matured pretty well.
    When you come to a fork on the road, take it.
    You can observe a lot by just watching.
    No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded.

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 15,082
    edited June 13
    Xodic said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Xodic said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kyleran said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Talonsin said:
    I think the game is solid and their pricing model is actually fair.  To sell 10 million copies is a nice achievement.  I remember back in 2012 when EA was hyping SWTOR because it had sold over 2 million copies.  Ark is a solid game and has only sold around 5 million copies.
    1. Ark has been avaible for purchase for less time
    2. Ark is an Early Access title which alone scares a lot of people off
    3. Ark doesnt remotely have in the same universe level of marketing spending and stradegy as Elder Scrolls title has and YES that makes a huge difference
    4. Ark doesnt have name branding like 'elder scrolls'

    its more accurate to compare Ark to Flappy Birds
    It is more accurate to compare MMORPG sales to other MMORPGs.
    no its not.

    comparing the sales of Wurm to the sales of WoW or ESO is silly. THose games easily have marketing budgets larger then the entire development of a game like Wurm. 

    its delisional to think the two are in the same playing field when it comes to marketing
    If it's delusional to compare Wurm to Wow when it comes to marketing, why would you compare games that are in completely different markets?
    oh so we can only compare MMO to MMO and only to a specific market.

    sounds like special snowflakism to me
    OK, so in your bout with deductive reasoning, you compare a mobile game, a survival game and an MMORPG in order to quantify marketing - without ever considering that they're completely different markets?

    Carry on then.
    I would try to explain how its reasonable and extreemly common place when talking about sales in games to not restrict the conversation to sub-types within those games but dont think these forums can understand despite how common place it is both proffesionally and unproffesionally.

    now in the meantime I am going to look at some top 10 game sells charts and see how many ways you would suggest those lists need to be parased

    Post edited by SEANMCAD on
    CalexExcession

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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,222
    SEANMCAD said:
    Xodic said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Xodic said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kyleran said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Talonsin said:
    I think the game is solid and their pricing model is actually fair.  To sell 10 million copies is a nice achievement.  I remember back in 2012 when EA was hyping SWTOR because it had sold over 2 million copies.  Ark is a solid game and has only sold around 5 million copies.
    1. Ark has been avaible for purchase for less time
    2. Ark is an Early Access title which alone scares a lot of people off
    3. Ark doesnt remotely have in the same universe level of marketing spending and stradegy as Elder Scrolls title has and YES that makes a huge difference
    4. Ark doesnt have name branding like 'elder scrolls'

    its more accurate to compare Ark to Flappy Birds
    It is more accurate to compare MMORPG sales to other MMORPGs.
    no its not.

    comparing the sales of Wurm to the sales of WoW or ESO is silly. THose games easily have marketing budgets larger then the entire development of a game like Wurm. 

    its delisional to think the two are in the same playing field when it comes to marketing
    If it's delusional to compare Wurm to Wow when it comes to marketing, why would you compare games that are in completely different markets?
    oh so we can only compare MMO to MMO and only to a specific market.

    sounds like special snowflakism to me
    OK, so in your bout with deductive reasoning, you compare a mobile game, a survival game and an MMORPG in order to quantify marketing - without ever considering that they're completely different markets?

    Carry on then.
    I would try to explain how its reasonable and extreemly common place when talking about sales in games to not restrict the conversation to sub-types within those games but dont think these forums can understand despite how common place it is both proffesionally and unproffesionally.

    now in the meantime I am going to look at some top 10 game sells charts and see how many ways you would suggest those lists need to be parased

    You are correct on one point for sure, there is nothing professional about this conversation.


    CalexMrMelGibsonExcessionJeleenaNyghthowlerConstantineMeruspostlarval

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • XodicXodic RealityMember RarePosts: 670
    SEANMCAD said:
    Xodic said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Xodic said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kyleran said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Talonsin said:
    I think the game is solid and their pricing model is actually fair.  To sell 10 million copies is a nice achievement.  I remember back in 2012 when EA was hyping SWTOR because it had sold over 2 million copies.  Ark is a solid game and has only sold around 5 million copies.
    1. Ark has been avaible for purchase for less time
    2. Ark is an Early Access title which alone scares a lot of people off
    3. Ark doesnt remotely have in the same universe level of marketing spending and stradegy as Elder Scrolls title has and YES that makes a huge difference
    4. Ark doesnt have name branding like 'elder scrolls'

    its more accurate to compare Ark to Flappy Birds
    It is more accurate to compare MMORPG sales to other MMORPGs.
    no its not.

    comparing the sales of Wurm to the sales of WoW or ESO is silly. THose games easily have marketing budgets larger then the entire development of a game like Wurm. 

    its delisional to think the two are in the same playing field when it comes to marketing
    If it's delusional to compare Wurm to Wow when it comes to marketing, why would you compare games that are in completely different markets?
    oh so we can only compare MMO to MMO and only to a specific market.

    sounds like special snowflakism to me
    OK, so in your bout with deductive reasoning, you compare a mobile game, a survival game and an MMORPG in order to quantify marketing - without ever considering that they're completely different markets?

    Carry on then.
    I would try to explain how its reasonable and extreemly common place when talking about sales in games to not restrict the conversation to sub-types within those games but dont think these forums can understand despite how common place it is both proffesionally and unproffesionally.

    now in the meantime I am going to look at some top 10 game sells charts and see how many ways you would suggest those lists need to be parased

    I know, you must be tired of dealing with simple folk.

    I'm not saying you can't paint a picture with the color you're using. I'm saying that your "delusional" comment about what @Kyleran suggested was in the window of a Ford Taurus adjacent to left field. If you truly believe that you can't compare Wurm to Wow when it comes to marketing, then surely you must concede that comparing completely different markets is just as faulty.

    I assume you would have a strong argument, if every single person who played a mobile game or survival game were also interested in MMOs. If the MMO market wasn't as saturated as it is with what feels like more games than there are people willing to play them, then I wouldn't have a problem with your reasoning.
    Excession
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson USAMember EpicPosts: 2,234
    Xodic said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Xodic said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Xodic said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Kyleran said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    Talonsin said:
    I think the game is solid and their pricing model is actually fair.  To sell 10 million copies is a nice achievement.  I remember back in 2012 when EA was hyping SWTOR because it had sold over 2 million copies.  Ark is a solid game and has only sold around 5 million copies.
    1. Ark has been avaible for purchase for less time
    2. Ark is an Early Access title which alone scares a lot of people off
    3. Ark doesnt remotely have in the same universe level of marketing spending and stradegy as Elder Scrolls title has and YES that makes a huge difference
    4. Ark doesnt have name branding like 'elder scrolls'

    its more accurate to compare Ark to Flappy Birds
    It is more accurate to compare MMORPG sales to other MMORPGs.
    no its not.

    comparing the sales of Wurm to the sales of WoW or ESO is silly. THose games easily have marketing budgets larger then the entire development of a game like Wurm. 

    its delisional to think the two are in the same playing field when it comes to marketing
    If it's delusional to compare Wurm to Wow when it comes to marketing, why would you compare games that are in completely different markets?
    oh so we can only compare MMO to MMO and only to a specific market.

    sounds like special snowflakism to me
    OK, so in your bout with deductive reasoning, you compare a mobile game, a survival game and an MMORPG in order to quantify marketing - without ever considering that they're completely different markets?

    Carry on then.
    I would try to explain how its reasonable and extreemly common place when talking about sales in games to not restrict the conversation to sub-types within those games but dont think these forums can understand despite how common place it is both proffesionally and unproffesionally.

    now in the meantime I am going to look at some top 10 game sells charts and see how many ways you would suggest those lists need to be parased

    I know, you must be tired of dealing with simple folk.

    I'm not saying you can't paint a picture with the color you're using. I'm saying that your "delusional" comment about what @Kyleran suggested was in the window of a Ford Taurus adjacent to left field. If you truly believe that you can't compare Wurm to Wow when it comes to marketing, then surely you must concede that comparing completely different markets is just as faulty.

    I assume you would have a strong argument, if every single person who played a mobile game or survival game were also interested in MMOs. If the MMO market wasn't as saturated as it is with what feels like more games than there are people willing to play them, then I wouldn't have a problem with your reasoning.
    There was reasoning in his replies?  Lol, color me surprised.  I try to imagine him as a pretentious teenager.  That way I can at least understand why he acts the way he does.  
    ExcessionKyleranRexKushmanNyghthowlerConstantineMerus
  • SaunZSaunZ Las Vegas, NVMember UncommonPosts: 384
    didn't the Federal Gaming Commission rule that ESO is like the best mmorpg EVER!
  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABMember RarePosts: 2,577
    edited June 16
    Every single person I know who bought ESO no longer plays it ... from me and friends on pc through the wife's kid and friends on console.

    Great metric? Think not.

    The game's f2p model earns vastly higher amounts through the cash shop. F'ing mounts cost more than the game sells for.
    Post edited by Tamanous on
    MrMelGibsonNebilim

    You stay sassy!

  • SaunZSaunZ Las Vegas, NVMember UncommonPosts: 384
    this metric showing you only know like 3 people shouldn't get you down... I am sure you are a nice person.
    Octagon7711KyleranMrMelGibsonConstantineMerus
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILMember EpicPosts: 5,693
    All I know is the game is far from empty and I've played it back when you would seldom see another player.  

    I don't even have a Steam copy.
    http://steamcharts.com/app/306130#All
    MrMelGibson

    "Change is the only constant."

  • ste2000ste2000 londonMember EpicPosts: 6,194
    edited June 16
    Nyctelios said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    ESO is 100000000% the baby child of everything Zenimax in house
    I meant the battle in court for the rights over a FO mmo where the 3 companies fought themselves over it.
    Nyctelios said:

    Isn't ESO existence itself a result of BethesdaGS fighting against Bethesda and Zenimax against the latter making a FOmmo?
    Mhhhh.... that's not what happened.

    Zenimax Media owns Zenimax Online, Bethesda Game Studios, Bethesda SoftWorks and ID Software.
    The legal battle you mention was between Zenimax (Bethesda Softworks) and Interplay who was the original owner of the Fallout IP.
    Basically Interplay sold the rights to Bethesda but retained the MMO rights with the condition that they would make a MMO within 2 years or else they would lose the license.

    Interplay failed to produce a MMO within this time frame, being able to show only a tech demo.
    Bethesda argued that the tech demo wasn't enough to justify an extension of the license beyond the 2 years initially agreed and sued Interplay who lost the case and the IP.


    Post edited by ste2000 on
    IselinMrMelGibson

  • IceAgeIceAge SomeWhere In .. RomaniaMember RarePosts: 1,666
    edited June 16
    Iselin said:
    My question is, are they counting PC-to-console account transfer as a new purchase as well?
    If those of us are not included then good job on selling 10 million copies.
    There were never any "transfers" as such. There were just account copies made for those who qualified ata certain point in time. If you did that, then you have a PC copy and a console copy and you can play either or both so yeah, you would count as 2 units bought.
    The account copy was $20 bucks, that was like paying for a server transfer on other mmos and those IMO shouldn't count as copies sold since thats just an account service.

    I just find it weird. They would count me as 2 buyers when i just bought and play one copy of the game and paid to "transfer/copy" my account to another platform without buying the game again.

    But the game is successful and that's what matters.
    Wow! 2 people talking each other about who theory is better and presents them as 100% real, yet ... none knows exactly if any are right, lol. 

    If any of you could point out any links that you count as 2 accounts , then do so. Else just shut up and stop debating conspiracy theories.

    About ESO .. I had my doubts that it will succeed in the long run, yet .. here we are . ESO seems one of the few remaining MMO's with a very active playerbase and with good updates . Keep it up!
    Post edited by IceAge on
    Iselin

    Reporter: What's behind Blizzard success, and how do you make your gamers happy?
    Blizzard Boss: Making gamers happy is not my concern, making money.. yes!

  • NyghthowlerNyghthowler Member UncommonPosts: 234
    Enough! Stop this bickering or I'm gonna turn this web site around and go home... ;)
    SaunZDistopia

    1. You have the right to shut the hell up.
    2. You have the right to a opinion just as soon as I tell you what it is.
    3. You have the right to die quietly or kicking and screaming. It doesn't really make a difference because you're dead either way.

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