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Not everything is an mmorpg

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  • Moxom914Moxom914 Member RarePosts: 731
    btdt said:
    MMORPG - Massive Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game

    That is the definition... how people interpret it is a different story.

    We don't need a tight definition to have fun... hell Marathon was a blast back in the day.  Did I care whether it was a LAN game or whatnot?  No.  It was fun as hell.

    To limit your idea of fun to a succinct definition is to limit your fun.  Why limit the definition of an MMORPG?  I doubt people back in the day ran around saying they played an MMORPG... pretty sure they played EQ or WoW or the like... it just so happened to be an MMORPG.  

    If someone asked you what car you drive... I'm pretty sure you say something like a 2017 Honda Accord... not a 6-cylinder fossil fuel transportation device.

    Apples and Oranges argument.


    Actually, when it comes to consumer products, accurate definitions and labels that everyone understands are very important. For this I'm going to shamelessly quote TotalBiscuit who had a similar rant to mine when it came to separating "rogue-like" and "rogue-lite" games. His analogy was that if he goes to the cinema to watch a film, and all the film says is "sci-fi" is that good enough for him? Answer is no, because although he likes sci-fi films, you have many many different kinds of sci-fi films. He loves sci-fi action films but hates sci-fi horror films. He needs to know what kind of sci-fi film he is going to see and to do that he needs an accurate label to tell him. 

    Similarly, I love games like WoW, Final Fantasy, EQ2, etc that have an open world to explore, but I hate fully instanced games like Skyforge, Kritika, Dragon Nest, etc. If all you say to me going in is that all those games are mmorpgs and nothing else, how am I to know if I will like the game or not? Why should I waste my precious time downloading and installing a game when it hasn't given me an accurate description of what kind of game it is?

    Hell, let's look at your car analogy. Let's say you go to a car sales store to buy a new car, but instead of actually being able to see the car in person before-hand, you are just given a catalogue with a picture of each car, and the only information you are given is the name of it, and nothing else. How are you meant to make an informed decision without knowing what kind of drive it is, how many seats it has, what different functions it has, etc.  

    This isn't about arguing semantics or definitions, it's about informing the consumer so that they can make meaningful decisions on which games to get. 


    its called doing research. durr
    Gdemami
  • btdtbtdt Member RarePosts: 523
    Eldurian said:
    In other words, a lot of pointless unnecessary fights are started because people want to feel like a word can mean whatever they want it to mean, instead of using the established and accepted definitions.



    But you are assuming there are established and accepted definitions... clearly this thread is ample proof that is not the case.

    You want to discuss WoW, you discuss WoW.  You want to discuss Lineage, you discuss Lineage.  Two very specific games.  To say you want to discuss MMOs or MMORPGs you're opening up the discussion to vastly larger selection of titles than just WoW.  

    Your very own topic suggests that you already know this to be the case.

    Break out one of your very old games that you consider to be an MMORPG.  Look at the packaging and documentation very carefully.  See what it actually written.  Tell me that it's so succinct as to define every other MMORPG in existence as well?  Right down to the very nitty gritty.  I think you will find that it is a rather open-ended loose description that could be applied to a whole host of games out there... with the only real absolutes is being online and capable of many concurrent players.
    Gdemami
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    btdt said:
    Eldurian said:
    In other words, a lot of pointless unnecessary fights are started because people want to feel like a word can mean whatever they want it to mean, instead of using the established and accepted definitions.



    But you are assuming there are established and accepted definitions... clearly this thread is ample proof that is not the case.
    Not really. People come up with a crap definition and then others hop on the bandwagon so they have something to argue about.

    There is literally nothing I can say too ridiculous to not get people to back it up on forums.

    I've had arguments on these forums about whether or not MMOs are actually in decline, whether or not games without three distinct roles are the trinity, and now about whether or not LoL is an MMO. Things that should be obvious. Things that don't even really merit a debate and then they turn into a knock down drag out fight because someone decides it actually is a worthwhile topic and others hop on the bandwagon.

    People are easily manipulated. The ability to get people to argue about something doesn't mean it's a subject actually worth arguing about. I could start an argument about whether dinosaur bones were buried in the earth by satan or not and there would be people on both sides.
    ExcessionNildenGdemami
  • ScorchienScorchien Member LegendaryPosts: 8,914
    Eldurian said:
    btdt said:
    Eldurian said:
    In other words, a lot of pointless unnecessary fights are started because people want to feel like a word can mean whatever they want it to mean, instead of using the established and accepted definitions.



    But you are assuming there are established and accepted definitions... clearly this thread is ample proof that is not the case.
    Not really. People come up with a crap definition and then others hop on the bandwagon so they have something to argue about.

    There is literally nothing I can say too ridiculous to not get people to back it up on forums.

    I've had arguments on these forums about whether or not MMOs are actually in decline, whether or not games without three distinct roles are the trinity, and now about whether or not LoL is an MMO. Things that should be obvious. Things that don't even really merit a debate and then they turn into a knock down drag out fight because someone decides it actually is a worthwhile topic and others hop on the bandwagon.

    People are easily manipulated. The ability to get people to argue about something doesn't mean it's a subject actually worth arguing about. I could start an argument about whether dinosaur bones were buried in the earth by satan or not and there would be people on both sides.
    No , no , no ... you got it all wrong most Dinosaurs bones were buried by my Mutha-in-Law
    Excession
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    Btw excession. You are kind of the poster child for my last post. Utterly offended I didn't accept a definition for Open World PvP that you guys never provided any source for because a lot of people were yelling something different on these forums, but now hopping on the bandwagon that if someone says a word means something it means something even if 80% of these forums say it doesn't AND nobody can source a definition that makes LoL work as an MMO.

    The epitome of someone who will flip-flop to logically opposed viewpoints just to be with whatever side of the argument you feel is yelling louder at the time. 
    GdemamiExcession
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,600
    @Eldurian

    Instead of saying mmo is at a decline, you should have said mmorpg is at a decline and no one get confuse.

    A seperate but related topic is does mmo equals mmorpg, which I personally don't believe to be the same thing.

    And another topic is what you call an online multiplayer rpg which isn't massive, MORPG?
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited June 2017
    AAAMEOW said:
    @Eldurian

    Instead of saying mmo is at a decline, you should have said mmorpg is at a decline and no one get confuse.

    A seperate but related topic is does mmo equals mmorpg, which I personally don't believe to be the same thing.

    And another topic is what you call an online multiplayer rpg which isn't massive, MORPG?
    No... MMOs are in decline. MMORPGs are in decline too. But every form of MMO that actually fits the definition of MMO is in decline right now. Not just the RPGs. At least in the west. The Asian market apparently is a bit different.

    An MMORPG is an MMO which is also an RPG. MMO doesn't have to be an RPG. That is the one and only difference between those two phrases.
    Gdemami
  • g0m0rrahg0m0rrah Member UncommonPosts: 325
    When everyone thinks mmorpg is an acronym, the entire argument begins and ends in failure. Mmorpg is not an acronym. Std is not an acronym. Aids is an acronym...
    Gdemamilahnmir
  • cameltosiscameltosis Member LegendaryPosts: 3,703
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:
    SEANMCAD said:


    what Dunbars number is saying is basically unless you are a social misfit running around causing problems with everyone then over time you will settle to a stable number of people all the time.

    Thing is I think you know this, its not like your talking to someone who has never played an MMO...come on lets be honest here, many of us are playing solo for fuck sake and many of us who are not stick to our clan of about 16 people and we interact with others outside that clan/guild to about the same degree as an NPC and in fact we migth even like NPC more, so lets not make up some bullshit reality here ok?

    more over, when talking about a game and social you have to connect the two, otherwise your just talking about a chat room..peroid...end of story....done.

    you have to connect to HOW my sword crafting skills are impacted because of population. Otherwise you might as well just take every game and overlay it with a chat engine and its done.

    When I read stuff like this I just have to roll my eyes ita so silly, I really wish people would be more open minded to the possibility that they are just simply wrong and start to move on.

    I can testify that I have played more than one private server games in which the entire experience from the social parts to the game itself was just like an MMO. the ONLY difference would be the market.
    So, I'll walk you through my main MMOs and explain how a large community makes a material difference:

    1) SWG (pre-cu)

    With 1000s of people on my server, there wouldn't have been lots of player cities and a vibrant pvp atmosphere. There would have been less crafters and thus a crap economy. Leveling groups would have been hard to find, either in general or specifically in the locations I wanted to level in. 

    2) LotRO

    Was a very group focused game at launch, so a small population (150) would have made it very hard to even reach max level unless we co-ordinated leveling times. My guild had roughly 100 active players, but we organised server events with other guilds, we competed against other guilds to complete dungeons and raids. Again, it had PvP, so without a large community the pvp community would have been too small to be fun. 

    3) WAR

    A whole game focused on large scale pvp fights. It was very common to have 200+ players in a single pvp lake, so this sort of combat wouldn't have been possible with a small community. I mean, think about it: the server would regularly have 2000+ online during peak times, but that still only resulted in 200+ battles. Taking the same ratios, if I were restricted to 150 people, without co-ordination the pvp would have involved maybe 20 of us. 


    Do these valid examples help explain why a large community is actually important? I get that for some games, they aren't. For example, I played SW:TOR for a year and the leveling process was very solo focused, world pvp wasn't possible due to technical limitations, so it meant at most you'd be doing 16man raids or 8v8 battlegrounds. So, in a poorly designed, barely MMO game like SW:TOR then sure, a private server versus a large server makes no material difference. 



    Also, yes, I recognise that many people play solo, or stick to their tiny clans. I'm not trying to make up bullshit, because YOU also know that many people do like grouping and that this whole genre was designed around large scale socialisation and community. I'm fine with other genres existing that have many of the same features as MMOs, but aren;t actually MMOs (like Destiny), you are welcome to them.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    @Excession ;

    I already gave the example. You were freaking out that I was using a definition that, while backed up by the majority of sources that can be found, isn't backed up by the peanut gallery on these boards. And apparently I should go with the peanut gallery.

    Now you are backing a definition neither backed by my online sources OR the peanut gallery on these boards.

    So which is it? Are we supposed to unquestioningly accept the wisdom of the MMORPG boards or aren't we?
    ExcessionGdemami
  • ExcessionExcession Member RarePosts: 709
    Eldurian said:
    @Excession ;

    I already gave the example. You were freaking out that I was using a definition that, while backed up by the majority of sources that can be found, isn't backed up by the peanut gallery on these boards. And apparently I should go with the peanut gallery.

    Do you actually think before you type? or read what you type before you click the post button?

    You accuse me of being the epitome of someone who will flip-flop.

    I ask if you can provide an example of me doing so, to which you claim you already have, then point out that I disagree with you.

    Since you have made a point of being a stickler with definition's, and you accuse me of flip-flopping, how is me disagreeing with you, and continuing to disagree with you on that point, equal to me changing my stance?

           Eldurian said:
           @Excession ;

           Now you are backing a definition neither backed by my online sources OR the peanut gallery          on these boards.

           So which is it? Are we supposed to unquestioningly accept the wisdom of the MMORPG boards        or aren't we?

    No idea what you are talking about to be honest, I have not agreed or disagreed with any definition of anything in this thread.

    Where are these peanut's you keep talking about? it is making me hungry.





    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    edited June 2017
    Gdemami said:
    Phry said:
    When you start including things that are not part of something, as if they were, then you get false results. Your argument is fatally flawed. :/
    On the contrary.

    You are still trying to argue and base your argument on some arbitrary, rigid rules how people should call things.

    That is not how it works.

    There is only one rule: people use words based on how other people use them.

    If people decide to call LOL an MMO, it will be called MMO. That is an essence of language, how it is works and how it evolves.

    Agreed with by Excession. 
    Gdemami said:

    That is not how it works.

    There is only one rule: people use words based on how other people use them.

    If people decide to call LOL an MMO, it will be called MMO. That is an essence of language, how it is works and how it evolves.

    It's not just "people" who have to decide that LoL is an an MMO. It has to be a sizable enough quantity that when you say "LoL is my favorite MMO" people actually understand and accept what you are saying instead of looking at you like there are lobsters crawling out of your ears.

    While the fact that we are having this debate does seem to prove my theory that there is no bandwagon too ridiculous for people hop on when it comes to these forums, I don't see any strong evidence that there is a commonly accepted usage of the phrase MMO or MMORPG that applies to LoL or any other MOBA currently on the market.
     
    WTFed by Excession.

    You've agreed with most of the people who have been arguing LoL is an MMO, and WTFed half the posts to the contrary. Seems like evidence enough to me where you stand on the issue.
    ExcessionGdemami
  • SovrathSovrath Member LegendaryPosts: 31,937
    g0m0rrah said:
    When everyone thinks mmorpg is an acronym, the entire argument begins and ends in failure. Mmorpg is not an acronym. Std is not an acronym. Aids is an acronym...
    Ok fine an "initialism". And no the entire argument does not begin and end in failure.

    You might as well be that guy who corrects people on their grammar.
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  • ExcessionExcession Member RarePosts: 709
    Eldurian said:
    Gdemami said:
    Phry said:
    When you start including things that are not part of something, as if they were, then you get false results. Your argument is fatally flawed. :/
    On the contrary.

    You are still trying to argue and base your argument on some arbitrary, rigid rules how people should call things.

    That is not how it works.

    There is only one rule: people use words based on how other people use them.

    If people decide to call LOL an MMO, it will be called MMO. That is an essence of language, how it is works and how it evolves.

    Agreed with by Excession. 
    Gdemami said:

    That is not how it works.

    There is only one rule: people use words based on how other people use them.

    If people decide to call LOL an MMO, it will be called MMO. That is an essence of language, how it is works and how it evolves.

    It's not just "people" who have to decide that LoL is an an MMO. It has to be a sizable enough quantity that when you say "LoL is my favorite MMO" people actually understand and accept what you are saying instead of looking at you like there are lobsters crawling out of your ears.

    While the fact that we are having this debate does seem to prove my theory that there is no bandwagon too ridiculous for people hop on when it comes to these forums, I don't see any strong evidence that there is a commonly accepted usage of the phrase MMO or MMORPG that applies to LoL or any other MOBA currently on the market.
     
    WTFed by Excession.

    You've agreed with most of the people who have been arguing LoL is an MMO, and WTFed half the posts to the contrary. Seems like evidence enough to me where you stand on the issue.
    What happened to the genius level intelligence you claimed you had?

    I agreed with someone who said "If people decide to call LOL an MMO, it will be called MMO".

    Nowhere in that statement does it say LOL actually IS an MMO.

    Please, you need to try harder.

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    Excession said:
    Eldurian said:
    Gdemami said:
    Phry said:
    When you start including things that are not part of something, as if they were, then you get false results. Your argument is fatally flawed. :/
    On the contrary.

    You are still trying to argue and base your argument on some arbitrary, rigid rules how people should call things.

    That is not how it works.

    There is only one rule: people use words based on how other people use them.

    If people decide to call LOL an MMO, it will be called MMO. That is an essence of language, how it is works and how it evolves.

    Agreed with by Excession. 
    Gdemami said:

    That is not how it works.

    There is only one rule: people use words based on how other people use them.

    If people decide to call LOL an MMO, it will be called MMO. That is an essence of language, how it is works and how it evolves.

    It's not just "people" who have to decide that LoL is an an MMO. It has to be a sizable enough quantity that when you say "LoL is my favorite MMO" people actually understand and accept what you are saying instead of looking at you like there are lobsters crawling out of your ears.

    While the fact that we are having this debate does seem to prove my theory that there is no bandwagon too ridiculous for people hop on when it comes to these forums, I don't see any strong evidence that there is a commonly accepted usage of the phrase MMO or MMORPG that applies to LoL or any other MOBA currently on the market.
     
    WTFed by Excession.

    You've agreed with most of the people who have been arguing LoL is an MMO, and WTFed half the posts to the contrary. Seems like evidence enough to me where you stand on the issue.
    What happened to the genius level intelligence you claimed you had?

    I agreed with someone who said "If people decide to call LOL an MMO, it will be called MMO".

    Nowhere in that statement does it say LOL actually IS an MMO.

    Please, you need to try harder.
    Then you WTFed the post explaining that it has to be an actual notable quantity of people. Doesn't even take a genius to read between the lines there.
    Gdemami
  • ExcessionExcession Member RarePosts: 709
    edited June 2017
    Eldurian said:
    Excession said:
    Eldurian said:
    Gdemami said:
    Phry said:
    When you start including things that are not part of something, as if they were, then you get false results. Your argument is fatally flawed. :/
    On the contrary.

    You are still trying to argue and base your argument on some arbitrary, rigid rules how people should call things.

    That is not how it works.

    There is only one rule: people use words based on how other people use them.

    If people decide to call LOL an MMO, it will be called MMO. That is an essence of language, how it is works and how it evolves.

    Agreed with by Excession. 
    Gdemami said:

    That is not how it works.

    There is only one rule: people use words based on how other people use them.

    If people decide to call LOL an MMO, it will be called MMO. That is an essence of language, how it is works and how it evolves.

    It's not just "people" who have to decide that LoL is an an MMO. It has to be a sizable enough quantity that when you say "LoL is my favorite MMO" people actually understand and accept what you are saying instead of looking at you like there are lobsters crawling out of your ears.

    While the fact that we are having this debate does seem to prove my theory that there is no bandwagon too ridiculous for people hop on when it comes to these forums, I don't see any strong evidence that there is a commonly accepted usage of the phrase MMO or MMORPG that applies to LoL or any other MOBA currently on the market.
     
    WTFed by Excession.

    You've agreed with most of the people who have been arguing LoL is an MMO, and WTFed half the posts to the contrary. Seems like evidence enough to me where you stand on the issue.
    What happened to the genius level intelligence you claimed you had?

    I agreed with someone who said "If people decide to call LOL an MMO, it will be called MMO".

    Nowhere in that statement does it say LOL actually IS an MMO.

    Please, you need to try harder.
    Then you WTFed the post explaining that it has to be an actual notable quantity of people. Doesn't even take a genius to read between the lines there.
    Instead of reading between the lines, try actually reading what is typed in the lines.

    The post I wtf'd is saying a notable quantity of people need to decide that LOL IS an MMO.

    Which is great, but the post it is a reply to does not say LOL was, or is, an MMO.

    See, you, and some poster's, do not really read and understand what other's are typing, you just grab onto one word or two that you can twist, and use to make your stance look stronger.

    It is all good though, gives me something to chuckle over, and reply to while not busy at work.
    Post edited by Excession on

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 2,736
    I find your backtracking rather amusing as well. Now that your contradiction has been pointed out you are trying obscure what you've been doing. Unfortunately when you read the whole exchange in the context of what this topic is about it's pretty obvious what's been going on.
    GdemamiExcession
  • nariusseldonnariusseldon Member EpicPosts: 27,775
    Eldurian said:
    I find your backtracking rather amusing as well. 
    The most amusing thing is that people here are still debating what-is and what-is-not a MMO.

    I suppose there is no new game to talk about, may as well go back to the great, never-ending debate.

    In fact, i will add fuel for fire. By now, almost "everything is a MMO". There are plenty of non-massively, lobby-based, action online games that are classified as MMOs by superdata, newszoo, the game list on THIS website, and other websites.

    So here is the question:

    Why do you think after so many years of crusade by quite some people here, countless online games like WoT are still being called MMOs? Not even the game list on this site got changed (although many claimed it will be "shortly" for years now). 

    a) No one else aside a few here cares.
    b) People do that intentionally to irritate those who are so vested in a definition.
    c) If MMOs are not broadened, the genre will die.
    d) all of the above.




  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,041


    a) No one else aside a few here cares.
    b) People do that intentionally to irritate those who are so vested in a definition.
    c) If MMOs are not broadened, the genre will die.
    d) all of the above.




    Oh no, common sense, shoot it in the head! Shoot it in the head!!!11!!

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • LimnicLimnic Member RarePosts: 1,116
    Contradiction in logic there.

    If you broaden the definition of MMO to become too vague of a concept, then the genre dies any ways because it's existence no longer has meaning. You can not keep something alive by removing it's vital components.
    KyleranGdemami
  • lahnmirlahnmir Member LegendaryPosts: 5,041
    Limnic said:
    Contradiction in logic there.

    If you broaden the definition of MMO to become too vague of a concept, then the genre dies any ways because it's existence no longer has meaning. You can not keep something alive by removing it's vital components.
    Ohh, but it will die, soon enough you won't have to specify online or multiplayer at all anymore because every game will have these components, or at least the vast majority.
    Soon being 10-15 years btw, which is very fast for a language.

    Right now it is in transition, meanings and importance is shifting and will find a new place or go extinct, that is why there is so much confusion atm.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 


    'But there are many. You can play them entirely solo, and even offline. Also, you are wrong by default.'

    Ikcin in response to yours sincerely debating whether or not single-player offline MMOs exist...



    'This does not apply just to ED but SC or any other game. What they will get is Rebirth/X4, likely prettier but equally underwhelming and pointless. 

    It is incredibly difficult to design some meaningfull leg content that would fit a space ship game - simply because it is not a leg game.

    It is just huge resource waste....'

    Gdemami absolutely not being an armchair developer

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 43,435
    lahnmir said:
    Limnic said:
    Contradiction in logic there.

    If you broaden the definition of MMO to become too vague of a concept, then the genre dies any ways because it's existence no longer has meaning. You can not keep something alive by removing it's vital components.
    Ohh, but it will die, soon enough you won't have to specify online or multiplayer at all anymore because every game will have these components, or at least the vast majority.
    Soon being 10-15 years btw, which is very fast for a language.

    Right now it is in transition, meanings and importance is shifting and will find a new place or go extinct, that is why there is so much confusion atm.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    Looking at when this site recently shared the top online games from E3 and they were all small number of player co-ops I'd say it was pretty good evidence of the genre's demise.

    Looking for a rebirth now, Ashes of Creation's recent KSee success shows people are looking for new MMOs which are more in the "traditional" defintion.
    GdemamiAAAMEOW

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  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,600
    I personally only see superdata and 2 more gaming sites calling online multiplayer games mmo.  Too few to care.

    And I think this site only lists non mmorpg because to increase traffic and many mmorpg players like other genre of games too.

    So this to me is a non topic because most people don't call moba or rts mmo anyway.
  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,600
    Eldurian said:
    I find your backtracking rather amusing as well. 
    The most amusing thing is that people here are still debating what-is and what-is-not a MMO.

    I suppose there is no new game to talk about, may as well go back to the great, never-ending debate.

    In fact, i will add fuel for fire. By now, almost "everything is a MMO". There are plenty of non-massively, lobby-based, action online games that are classified as MMOs by superdata, newszoo, the game list on THIS website, and other websites.

    So here is the question:

    Why do you think after so many years of crusade by quite some people here, countless online games like WoT are still being called MMOs? Not even the game list on this site got changed (although many claimed it will be "shortly" for years now). 

    a) No one else aside a few here cares.
    b) People do that intentionally to irritate those who are so vested in a definition.
    c) If MMOs are not broadened, the genre will die.
    d) all of the above.




    I don't think this site lists other genre of games because they think they are mmorpg but because they think people are interested.

    And really I don't think there are even that many sites calling online multiplayer games mmo.  Infact quite the opposite, there are only like three sites I seen people calling them mmo.

    And almost no one on this sites are calling general online multiplayer games mmo(besides you).  So I don't know why we are even discussing about something which is nothing.
  • ExcessionExcession Member RarePosts: 709
    Eldurian said:
    I find your backtracking rather amusing as well. Now that your contradiction has been pointed out you are trying obscure what you've been doing. Unfortunately when you read the whole exchange in the context of what this topic is about it's pretty obvious what's been going on.
    Honestly mate, you really are cracking me up.

    Backtracking? contradiction? that is almost as stupid as saying I am the epitome of someone who flip-flop's, then not showing any evidence at all of me flip-flopping, but claiming you did.

    Not in the same league as you thinking the Etten's is open world pvp, but still stupid.

    Check back a few post's, read the definition(s) of flip-flop, decide which one you believe applies to me / my post's, then show evidence of it.

    Where have I backtracked? I agreed, and still agree, that if people decide to call LOL an MMO, it will be called MMO.

    Notice I still am not saying LOL actually is an MMO, no backtracking there either.

    You really are a joke ;) 

    A creative person is motivated by the desire to achieve, not the desire to beat others.

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