Crowfall's $7,000 Castle

135

Comments

  • mgilbrtsnmgilbrtsn belleville, ILMember RarePosts: 3,068
    I'm against p2w like most people.  However, if you drop 7k... you can have a few benefits.  It's not like it's gonna unbalance things for everyone.  It's only 1 person.
    Arglebargle

    Concentrate on enjoying yourself, and not on why I shouldn't enjoy myself.

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,872
    edited June 9
    Oh look, another p2w post.....how original!
    Oh look, another visitor to the forum that didn't read the thread before posting, how typical
    Post edited by Kyleran on
    KajidourdenxpiherMrMelGibson

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  • RhoklawRhoklaw Ft. Bliss, TXMember EpicPosts: 5,272
    genaknosc said:
    Why is there even a whole page of people discussing P2W here when nobody involved in the debate even knows anything about Crowfall EK's. lol, people complaining about shit they don't even understand
    Then I guess the correct subject we should be discussing is whether or not EK's have any effect on other parts of the game. Since you seem to be the Crowfall expert, why don't you get back to us on that.

  • laxielaxie UK - Leamington SpaMember RarePosts: 904
    edited June 9

    If it were purely cosmetic, I'd agree.  However, this appears to give players the ability to buy an instant, significant PvP advantage over other players who can't afford it.  Without getting into a huge debate about the spirit of fair competition, this appears to be markedly pay to win.  Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so, after reading the item description.
    Crowfall has a really interesting "campaign" design. Every player has access to their own private instance - pretty much a glorified version of housing. These instances only grow the most basic of resources, so they are meant to serve as crafting/socialising hubs.
    All of the houses people buy with real money are for this private instance only.

    Next to that, you have campaign worlds, which is where all the PvE / PvP happens. Joining this world will pretty much make you start fresh - you can only bring so much with you. I believe these PvP worlds will have the same housing system, with the exception that it doesn't allow any microtransaction purchases of any kind. The idea is that people start from scratch and build up their own castles with the resources they collect. This has been a core design element and I don't see them changing this. At the end of the campaign, you take the loot from the campaign world and export it into your home instance.

    I am guessing it will not be trivial to obtain the resources you need to get a house in game, let alone something equivalent to the $7000 castle. With that said, since it's for a private instance only, it should not impact on the gameplay what so ever. If there is any gameplay benefit, it will be easy access to low-tier resources, I assume that is somewhat negligible, as even venturing into the safest campaign world will yield better drops.

    If there is any P2W in Crowfall, it will be in the subscription packages. I'm not sure they fully decided on how those will work. I know at some point, a subscription would allow you to train 3 skills at the same time instead of one. Since it's a subscription though, it will have a clear cap (it's not like someone can spend 7000$ on a subscription and train 700 skills at once).
    Post edited by laxie on
    NyctelioskitaradpantaroMrMelGibson
  • PemminPemmin Member UncommonPosts: 430
    edited June 10
    laxie said:

    If it were purely cosmetic, I'd agree.  However, this appears to give players the ability to buy an instant, significant PvP advantage over other players who can't afford it.  Without getting into a huge debate about the spirit of fair competition, this appears to be markedly pay to win.  Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so, after reading the item description.
    Crowfall has a really interesting "campaign" design. Every player has access to their own private instance - pretty much a glorified version of housing. These instances only grow the most basic of resources, so they are meant to serve as crafting/socialising hubs.
    All of the houses people buy with real money are for this private instance only.

    Next to that, you have campaign worlds, which is where all the PvE / PvP happens. Joining this world will pretty much make you start fresh - you can only bring so much with you. I believe these PvP worlds will have the same housing system, with the exception that it doesn't allow any microtransaction purchases of any kind. The idea is that people start from scratch and build up their own castles with the resources they collect. This has been a core design element and I don't see them changing this. At the end of the campaign, you take the loot from the campaign world and export it into your home instance.

    I am guessing it will not be trivial to obtain the resources you need to get a house in game, let alone something equivalent to the $7000 castle. With that said, since it's for a private instance only, it should not impact on the gameplay what so ever. If there is any gameplay benefit, it will be easy access to low-tier resources, I assume that is somewhat negligible, as even venturing into the safest campaign world will yield better drops.

    If there is any P2W in Crowfall, it will be in the subscription packages. I'm not sure they fully decided on how those will work. I know at some point, a subscription would allow you to train 3 skills at the same time instead of one. Since it's a subscription though, it will have a clear cap (it's not like someone can spend 7000$ on a subscription and train 700 skills at once).
    even the subscription only applies to class skills. basically allows you to three 3 classes instead of 1, but your still limited to one class at a time while playing(basically your training 3 different characters at once). so non subs will only be able to have 1 character...... basically only being limited in variety. so it shouldn't effect pvp 

    only 1 general/gathering/crafting skill can be trained at a time regardless of subscription status......at least this is how it works on the alpha
    Post edited by Pemmin on
    laxieMrMelGibson
  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,257
    Pemmin said:
    laxie said:

    If it were purely cosmetic, I'd agree.  However, this appears to give players the ability to buy an instant, significant PvP advantage over other players who can't afford it.  Without getting into a huge debate about the spirit of fair competition, this appears to be markedly pay to win.  Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think so, after reading the item description.
    Crowfall has a really interesting "campaign" design. Every player has access to their own private instance - pretty much a glorified version of housing. These instances only grow the most basic of resources, so they are meant to serve as crafting/socialising hubs.
    All of the houses people buy with real money are for this private instance only.

    Next to that, you have campaign worlds, which is where all the PvE / PvP happens. Joining this world will pretty much make you start fresh - you can only bring so much with you. I believe these PvP worlds will have the same housing system, with the exception that it doesn't allow any microtransaction purchases of any kind. The idea is that people start from scratch and build up their own castles with the resources they collect. This has been a core design element and I don't see them changing this. At the end of the campaign, you take the loot from the campaign world and export it into your home instance.

    I am guessing it will not be trivial to obtain the resources you need to get a house in game, let alone something equivalent to the $7000 castle. With that said, since it's for a private instance only, it should not impact on the gameplay what so ever. If there is any gameplay benefit, it will be easy access to low-tier resources, I assume that is somewhat negligible, as even venturing into the safest campaign world will yield better drops.

    If there is any P2W in Crowfall, it will be in the subscription packages. I'm not sure they fully decided on how those will work. I know at some point, a subscription would allow you to train 3 skills at the same time instead of one. Since it's a subscription though, it will have a clear cap (it's not like someone can spend 7000$ on a subscription and train 700 skills at once).
    even the subscription only applies to class skills. basically allows you to three 3 classes instead of 1, but your still limited to one class at a time while playing(basically your training 3 different characters at once). so non subs will only be able to have 1 character...... basically only being limited in variety. so it shouldn't effect pvp 

    only 1 general/gathering/crafting skill can be trained at a time regardless of subscription status......at least this is how it works on the alpha
    Sounds like EvE skill queue system.

    " Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
    —Urza

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  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,867
    So the competitive portion of the game is the campaigns.

    The "Look at my giant trophy room full of golden epeens, aren't they pretty?" portion of the game is the Eternal Kingdoms.

    The properties you can purchase for cash are in the Eternal Kingdoms.

    In other words, nothing that happens in the Eternal Kingdoms is pay to win, because the campaigns are the only portion of the game where serious competition happens.

    @genaknosc got it right when he says you guys are complaining about things you don't even understand. If you can ascribe the word "Pay to Win" to things purchased for the EK you clearly have no concept how this game works.
    natpickkitaradpantaro
  • kitaradkitarad RomeMember EpicPosts: 3,740
    OP I suggest you edit your original post and add what you have learnt here or were your intentions to turn this discussion into a P2W one.
    ConstantineMeruscheyanepantaroMrMelGibson

  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 1,010
    So basically this is the equivalent of a $7,000 costume for your instanced does-not-produce-any-tangible-benefit house.

    Well, while I think that's silly, that's really not P2W that I can think of.
    laxie
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,867
    Tiamat64 said:
    So basically this is the equivalent of a $7,000 costume for your instanced does-not-produce-any-tangible-benefit house.

    Well, while I think that's silly, that's really not P2W that I can think of.
    Right. The Eternal Kingdoms are going to be a portion of the game where a lot of socializing, roleplay, etc happens. You'll be able to bring people over to check out your 7000$ pad but you won't be using your 7000$ pad as a base of operations in scenarios that actually matter.

    I think one main thing to impress though is with all crowdfunded things if you are paying 7000$ you aren't really being delivered 7000$ in value usually. It's like when you donate to charity and they give you some kind of thank you gift for your donation.

    The reason you would pay 7000$ into any crowdfunded campaign is because you believe in the product and you really want to see it succeed, to the tune of 7000$. That might seem pretty ridiculous to most people. As a college student there are a lot better things I could do with 7000$ for sure. But some people have that kind of money and really want to see these games made. 
    Gdemami
  • Arkade99Arkade99 Parsippany, NJMember UncommonPosts: 322
    This article should explain the pricing.

    https://crowfall.com/en/news/founders-update-guild-strongholds/
    JamesGoblin
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Panama City, FLMember RarePosts: 1,483
    Kyleran said:
    Oh look, another p2w post.....how original!
    Oh look, another visitor to the forum that didn't read the thread before posting, how typical

    Skimmed it again just to make sure

    Yup I was right.  Next.
  • FrykkaFrykka Spokane, WAMember UncommonPosts: 24
    edited July 11
    Denambren said:
    In a game with player-built villages, towns, cities and castle empires, you can either start the game with an empty world, or with some players who already have starting villages, cities, castles, buildings, etc. If you go with the empty world, it doesn't take very long for the world to get populated with all the villages, cities, castles etc. For a game with limited funding that relies on pledges, I don't find anything wrong with big donations allowing players to be the first of the people to settle in the game world and flesh out the "political" landscape. Just think of these players as the original nobility with a family lineage that traces back to the earliest history of the game. The players' pledges helped create the game world, so it makes sense to me that they should have a historical place in it. It also means that all players (even ones with the lowest pledge value, like myself) have new places to live in and interact with. If you don't like the lord of a castle, then that's great. The place has personality instead of if the castle was just an NPC hub.

    Well, that's one way of looking at it.  Another way is that it gives whales a huge starting advantage over the average player who can't afford to spend that kind of money.  Am I right that these cash shop buildings give an instant PvP advantage to the purchaser?  Is there any indication of how much player time and effort it would take to earn something like an Imperial Palace in-game?  That's important, too.  If it's a week, maybe no big deal.  If it's a year, big deal.  That's assuming that comparable structures can even me earned through in-game activities.  Is that known yet?
    FYI...  NO purchased asset can be used or imported to the competitive game world.  In fact even items made in your Eternal Kingdom, where these "Large Guild level community landmark buildings" are only allowed to be placed, are not able to be imported into the deepest PvP worlds and have import limits to the less harsh outer module campaign worlds.   These buildings have NO direct value as far as PvP power of a player account.  So many ill-informed gamers that give Bad info or speculate wildly without reading a simple FAQ. 

    tl/dr: Imperial Castles are pretty much cosmetic to the high end competitive guilds that will have them.
    Post edited by Frykka on
    pantaro
  • FrykkaFrykka Spokane, WAMember UncommonPosts: 24
    genaknosc said:
    Why is there even a whole page of people discussing P2W here when nobody involved in the debate even knows anything about Crowfall EK's. lol, people complaining about shit they don't even understand

    mmorpg.com is full of carebear rpg types who tend to wildly speculate on how rough they would have it in the PvP sandbox, overrate the difficulty of survival or rather the complexity of social networks required to excel at sandbox PvP.   Eve players will thrive with a slight shift of mindset, WoW players will not.
    Gdemamipaulytheb
  • ste2000ste2000 londonMember EpicPosts: 6,194
    edited July 11
    I think people need to learn more about EKs before they speak.

    This is taken from the FAQs:
    18. WILL A BIG KINGDOM BENEFIT ME IN THE CAMPAIGN WORLDS?
    No. The Campaign Worlds all have import rules that severely limit the number of items that can be brought into the world. Having a larger, more developed EK will not directly impact the game balance within the campaigns.
    Basically having a tiny Kingdom or a huge one won't make any difference to the real Campaign World.

    Then there is the matter of "what is an Eternal Kingdom"?
    Simply put EKs are Private Servers.
    I personally don't think that anything that can be bought to pimp a Private Server make the game P2W.
    No one is forced to play or even visit those Private Servers, they are purely aesthetics and serve mainly as a community hub for Guilds.
    It's not like in SotA where Buildings occupy actual World space and can be seen and visited by anyone strolling along the city streets.

    If you buy a $7K Palace for your EK, you don't win anything.

    Post edited by ste2000 on
    GdemamiJamesGoblinEldurianpantaroxpiher

  • IncomparableIncomparable KuwaitMember UncommonPosts: 1,043
    edited July 11
    Well, on a positive note, this is more of an indication of a game not being vaporware and they are confident enough in the fun factor of their game that someone would be willing to drop that kind of money.

    From a business point of view, this creates the perception of quality. 

    When you have something that is more costly despite it being similar in quality to other goods,  person assumes that it is of higher quality.

    Hopefully this perception of quality is true for something that looks like could be good fun.
    Post edited by Incomparable on
    JamesGoblin

    “Write bad things that are done to you in sand, but write the good things that happen to you on a piece of marble”

  • Arkade99Arkade99 Parsippany, NJMember UncommonPosts: 322
    People have spent thousands of dollars on ships in Star Citizen, and these are individual players mind you. AFAIK, those can actually be used in a competitive way. Some people claim that isn't P2W because people can earn those same ships in game. I disagree with that definition, but that's an argument for another time.

    In CF, the things you buy in the store don't impact competitive play, AND they can all be created in-game (excluding certain skins/cosmetics that were given as rewards for various stuff, like the fallen colossus parcel). Functionally, there is nothing you can buy that you can't also create in-game. The amount of time and effort some of these things will take to make will be substantial, but as they provide no competitive advantage, that's not a problem. People aren't getting ahead by buying them rather than making them.
    JamesGoblinxpiher
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,867
    edited August 7
    Arkade99 said:
    People have spent thousands of dollars on ships in Star Citizen, and these are individual players mind you. AFAIK, those can actually be used in a competitive way. Some people claim that isn't P2W because people can earn those same ships in game. I disagree with that definition, but that's an argument for another time.

    In CF, the things you buy in the store don't impact competitive play, AND they can all be created in-game (excluding certain skins/cosmetics that were given as rewards for various stuff, like the fallen colossus parcel). Functionally, there is nothing you can buy that you can't also create in-game. The amount of time and effort some of these things will take to make will be substantial, but as they provide no competitive advantage, that's not a problem. People aren't getting ahead by buying them rather than making them.
    Oh yes. LTI ships in Star Citizen are very much a part of the in-game economy and have an impact on the world. I'll list my personal purchases to help give some perspective. Some of these figures are ballpark because I don't really remember exactly what I bought/sold them for at this point.

    1000$ Idriss-M LTI - 50% Ownership for 500$ (Later Sold for 3800) <-100% accurate. I know those prices by heart.
    400$ Anvil Carrack LTI (Still owned)
    125$ Superhornet LTI x 2 (1 sold for 175$)
    150$ Gladiator Bomber (Sold for 200$) <- This is the one I'm guesstimating the hardest on. I really don't remember what it cost me or what I sold it for other than that it was a decent chunk of change and I made a profit on it.
    25$ Aurora LTI (4 sold for 100$ each)
    80$ Hull B LTI <- Total guesswork on that one. I could look it up but I'm lazy.
    40$ Some Cool Ground Speeder LTI

    So using my super accurate guesswork I put 1570$ into Star Citizen buying ships with real in-game benefits. 

    Of course of that, I only have $645 worth of ships left and my total investment stands at -1150$ AKA 1150 profits but... well yeah. Big money gets thrown around in the Star Citizen arena.

    Unfortunately the ability to make thousands on it has kind of come and gone. I was an early adopter and bought some very limited editions ships (The Idriss M and original LTI Aurora game packages) that account for the majority of my profits.

    ________________

    Relating back to the subject at hand, some multi-thousand dollar palaces for your epeen kingdom are nothing compared to the multi-thousand dollar palaces strapped with guns you can fly around the Star Citizen universe. No comparison on the Pay-To-Win scale.



    Post edited by Eldurian on
    JamesGoblinxpiher
  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INMember UncommonPosts: 3,301
    These only go in the Eternal Kingdom, which is essentially a private server ala minecraft. It doesn't affect the real game.
    JamesGoblin

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    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
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  • KajidourdenKajidourden Panama City, FLMember RarePosts: 1,483
    edited August 9

    .

    Post edited by Kajidourden on
    JamesGoblin
  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INMember UncommonPosts: 3,301
    edited August 9
    Rhoklaw said:
    genaknosc said:
    Why is there even a whole page of people discussing P2W here when nobody involved in the debate even knows anything about Crowfall EK's. lol, people complaining about shit they don't even understand
    Then I guess the correct subject we should be discussing is whether or not EK's have any effect on other parts of the game. Since you seem to be the Crowfall expert, why don't you get back to us on that.

    Keep wise, no, not really. The keeps just look fancy that people are buying. Eternal Kingdoms in terms of land mass and keep size (which everyone can unlock and designed for guild pulling money) do allow you to make statues to the gods that give a MINOR bonus to campaign worlds. Large EKs do offer more land to farm in to make basic gear to take with you to Worlds that allow you to take stuff. However, not every world allows you to import things. Some will be completely clean slate other than character. So no, they don't affect the real game. 

    Edit: To be clear about EK land size, it doesn't really matter all that much as regeneration for materials is supposedly to be fairly quick
    Post edited by xpiher on
    JamesGoblin

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INMember UncommonPosts: 3,301
    Well, on a positive note, this is more of an indication of a game not being vaporware and they are confident enough in the fun factor of their game that someone would be willing to drop that kind of money.

    From a business point of view, this creates the perception of quality. 

    When you have something that is more costly despite it being similar in quality to other goods,  person assumes that it is of higher quality.

    Hopefully this perception of quality is true for something that looks like could be good fun.

    I fully believe that ArtCraft studios found the right mixture of Guild spending, player spending, and cosmetic shop stuff to be a multi-million dollar profit company. 
    JamesGoblin

    image
    Games:
    Currently playing:Nothing
    Will play: Darkfall: Unholy Wars
    Past games:
    Guild Wars 2 - Xpiher Duminous
    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,872
    edited August 9

    .

    You seem lost yourself...

    Now really lost
    Post edited by Kyleran on
    JamesGoblin

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
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  • Saddom321Saddom321 Lappa, GAMember UncommonPosts: 3
    That's some serious greed.. usually leads to p2w cash shop stuff later on.
    Gdemami
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Panama City, FLMember RarePosts: 1,483
    Kyleran said:

    .

    You seem lost yourself...

    Now really lost
    I have no idea what you're even trying to accomplish by responding to everything I type but um....good job I guess?  

    Saddom321 said:
    That's some serious greed.. usually leads to p2w cash shop stuff later on.
    How the fuck is that greed? They have a company to run and if someone is so compelled by this that they want a cosmetic item worth 7 grand then by all means let them spend the money.  After all it's the rest of us who benefit from it.

    Some people have that kind of money and don't mind spending it, sounds more like you're broke and jealous.
    Gdemami
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