Vanilla World of Warcraft, the most Brilliant video game ever made.

delete5230delete5230 Member RarePosts: 4,109
I just found my original soft cover game manual from 2004, the glue rotted away and you have to be careful when handling it.  Anyway I was looking it over and that's when I realized World of Warcraft was a masterpiece.  In fact to this day no other comes close thirteen years later. 

Think about it !..... When this game was being developed it didn't have many ideas to steel from.  Even more, mmo's were in the early stages and were not an extreme big thing.  Yet lots of love was poured into the making anyway, to add even more the game was HUGE....... What would make designers take such a chance in devoting so much time with little competition ?  


Putting aside all this, their is way more.

Developers knew how to reach every type of player, they knew how to reach into the minds and know how people think by giving something to everyone !

-You can be a shy solo player by doing single person quest.  You can pick a zone theme and play their and live a life in your own area and not leave for ten levels, or sit in Ironforge and play the auction "forever". 

-People with online personalities could round up a group and fight Hogger together with friends or make new ones.  Remember the value of a friends list ?..... This feature lost its way.  You needed them if you were this type of player or not, that's the best part. 

-Then you had the take charge people that took on guild ownership " in a game where it counted "..... So many games today have meaningless guilds.

-How about deep coordination in Dungeons or Raids... They nailed it on their first try.  Don't forget this was 2004. Tanks and healers needed to know their roll, even dps could kill a groups day or make it depending on their actions..... Talking about dungeons, wow lots, and so amazing how we had at least two choices at any given time starting at level 15 on the Alliance side, and 12 on the Horde.

-PvP, In 2004 open world PvP is still un-matched.  Nothing EVER CAME CLOSE to this natural feature !  No other game ever had two faction gameplay where it was a secret of what was going on with the other side !!!!!
 

What would be the motivation of a group of people to take such a chance in something so unproven ?   

deniterKyleranGdemamiConstantineMeruskertinkitaradShaighcheyaneIselinXarkoand 6 others.
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Comments

  • LorgarnLorgarn SwedenMember UncommonPosts: 413
    Many of the original devs of World of Warcraft were in leading raiding guilds in Everquest. They wanted to make their own Everquest, something that wasn't as "hardcore" and have it be more accessible to people. That was the motivation and it was not unproven, at all.

    Everquest proved that it worked, and no Blizzard didn't expect to have millions of players. If I recall they were hoping for a couple of hundred thousands? (The figure 500k comes to mind for some reason)
    Hatefull
  • delete5230delete5230 Member RarePosts: 4,109
    Lorgarn said:
    Many of the original devs of World of Warcraft were in leading raiding guilds in Everquest. They wanted to make their own Everquest, something that wasn't as "hardcore" and have it be more accessible to people. That was the motivation and it was not unproven, at all.

    Everquest proved that it worked, and no Blizzard didn't expect to have millions of players. If I recall they were hoping for a couple of hundred thousands? (The figure 500k comes to mind for some reason)

    The history is still in clear to me.  Somehow I knew Blizzard didn't own the original design until completion... or something like that !
    Gdemami
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,275
    I don't often give LOLs, but when I do it's for starting threads like this.

    OP didn't join the genre until WOW so he can be forgiven for so many inaccuracies in one place.

    Will just touch on one, WOW took a bulk of its design from several earlier MMORPGs, and so much from EQ1 people occasionally referred to WOW as an EQ clone.

    They did refine and make more palatable some of the mechanics to broaden its appeal to a larger audience but there was little innovation at launch. 

    Over the years since they did introduce some new ideas, mostly negative ones in my book (i.e. DFers) which first destroyed their own game and then the genre when other games began to copy them.

    I will give the OP props, in his ignorance he has created what will very likely be the most popcorn worthy thread this week.

    Just in time with no new crowdfinding campaigns to "kick" around.
    GdemamiInebriatedSkunkConstantineMerusKellerThomas2006HatefullMrMelGibsonDistopiaFrodoFraginsAlomarand 3 others.

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • Quazal.AQuazal.A PrestonMember UncommonPosts: 815
    I would add ccp and their masterpiece, still to this day there is nothing that is even close, wow , whilst a mini clone of EQ1 , has been copied and better copied, its taken until recently (and maybe never) for another space mmo to hit the market (looking at you chris roberts)
    Yes its a niche game, yes, it doesn't fit with most people as fun, but given the 'love' shown for likes DAOC and its open world pvp , then CCP have not just hit nail on head, but hammered it through a floor!.

    Unlike most if not all MMO at time, the fact the market is driven solely by players, you want a ship, someone builds it, you want to fire a weapon you better hope someone built it.. 

    The market has been studied many times , they have used it in economics courses as real life examples etc. The secondary market that players drive, want something done like Comms  / graphics / forums / then you pay people to give up their time with in game cash. - In Eve everything is tradable, your name, sell your toon and so forth

    And you talk about guilds,  any MMO ive played (and there are a few) cannot match the importance of corporations in eve, and how they change the map of the game. Allainces that can have 10,000 players all in, the combat battles that have 5,000 players none of this 10v10 crap.

    The game that whilst recently is on life support, (mainly due to CCP wasting money on othert products from Pod pilots subs), broke ground that no game had done.
    Single server / 1 player name you knew or had chance to now EVERY player thats playing or ever played. 

    You didn't hear stories of what someone did , you lived them stories, you were part of them stories.

    The devs had direct input ffrom players, and in early days often used player ideas to develop their games, that whilst dulled down still do.

    So if your praising a developer for creating something unique and original and masterpiece then CCP need to be considered.
    KyleranKilrane

    This post is all my opinion, but I welcome debate on anything i have put, however, personal slander / name calling belongs in game where of course you're welcome to call me names im often found lounging about in EvE online.
    Use this code for 21days trial in eve online https://secure.eveonline.com/trial/?invc=d385aff2-794a-44a4-96f1-3967ccf6d720&action=buddy

  • delete5230delete5230 Member RarePosts: 4,109
    edited June 10
    Lorgarn said:
    Many of the original devs of World of Warcraft were in leading raiding guilds in Everquest. They wanted to make their own Everquest, something that wasn't as "hardcore" and have it be more accessible to people. That was the motivation and it was not unproven, at all.

    Everquest proved that it worked, and no Blizzard didn't expect to have millions of players. If I recall they were hoping for a couple of hundred thousands? (The figure 500k comes to mind for some reason)

    I created this post not fully understanding who exactly created Vanilla World of Warcraft.  I knew from spotty at best sources that it wasn't Blizzard but a rogue team of programmers.  So I would like to thank Lorgarn in clearing this up.  However, I did know it was a group of people with the resources and knowledge to see what was given and totally expand on basic ideas.

    " Basically a few brilliant people with some clout and influence " to say we can do wayyyy better !!
     

    If this team of brilliant people were to draw large numbers of players some things have to happen:

    - The first would be direction, sorry but people want to know what's going on at least on a basic level. 

    They need a map !...... People can argue all day maps destroy immersion and the unknown.  I agree with a majority of people and say YES TO MAPS. AS LONG AS THE WORLD IS HUGE.  Lets not forget and this is important, 2004 was still early.  Players were not completely sold on the idea of mmos yet !..... Lets not loose the up and coming potential players just because the veterans know the game.


    - Variety, they pegged it on the first try. 

    Two factions Unable to communicate.  3 unique starting areas for each side, for a total of 6.  Yet totally unique balanced themes.  With nothing in common other than balanced in difficulty. This holds true for capitol cities too.... 6 of them. 


    - Dungeons, just take some time and reflect back to 2004.  

    Deadmines, remember the struggle just to get in ?.... That was a fight that put stress on a group before you even start...... Developers thought, lets make it hard, this takes balls !...... I'll not even talk about the pirate ship at the end. 

    Scarlet Monastery, creepy zone on the out skirts that leads to a mausoleum with 4 doors.  Putting aside the dungeon it self. 
      Horde, protect what is ours.
      Alliance, break through it's defenses. 

    What a calculated PvP battle !!!!........Brilliant. 

    Open world dungeons, people talk about open world dungeons and the lack of.  Well, what about Stormgrade, Alterac Valley, Stonewatch Keep and Moonbrook, maybe you forgot ? 

    ALL THIS in 2004.  I can go one forever, this is why World of Warcraft is Brilliant with little help from other games :)





    Post edited by delete5230 on
    Phaserlight
  • kitaradkitarad RomeMember EpicPosts: 3,623
    Blizzard stole the mail and auction house system from FFXI.
     Most of their basic systems from Everquest.

    They refined the game and made it more accessible and there is no denying it was a good game and a lot of fun but your post about

     'When this game was being developed it didn't have many ideas to steel from'

    is not accurate though and it is steal not steel.

    ConstantineMerusAvarixMrMelGibsonKilrane

  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember RarePosts: 1,114
    Before delve into this any deeper, were you playing MMOs before WoW?
    I am a piece of carbon with a soul, wondering where I got it from. 
    - Drunken Mozart in the Desert
  • kitaradkitarad RomeMember EpicPosts: 3,623
    No WoW was op's first game in this genre ...explains a lot.

  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember RarePosts: 1,114
    edited June 10
    kitarad said:
    No WoW was op's first game in this genre ...explains a lot.
    I don't understand. Why people like to guess about stuff when others might possess knowledge of them in-depth? Although this case is rather new if you are right about the OP. We have people discuss games they have never played--I haven't made my peace with that yet--but now he is comparing a game he played to the games he never did and making conclusions? 

    I mean the OP could just state why in his (humble) opinion, WoW vanilla is the most brilliant video game ever made, nothing wrong with that. But why you had wander in the uncharted territory? 
    Post edited by ConstantineMerus on
    KyleranPhaserlight
    I am a piece of carbon with a soul, wondering where I got it from. 
    - Drunken Mozart in the Desert
  • delete5230delete5230 Member RarePosts: 4,109
    edited June 10
    Well, about 3 post up, I went into great detail that touched on an ever so small list of features that world of Warcraft brought to mmos.  

    More important HOW THE GAME WAS DESIGNED in a natural way for players to play, get together and PvP or simply play together.   

    The flow of this game was never matched.  How can people not understand the point of this natural occurrence ? 

    - LOTRO came close.
    - EQ2 was a mess, a coding mess with patched in content like a jig saw puzzle. 




    I'm in no way knocking the basic functions of early mmos.  But World of Warcraft not only took it to new levels but ten levels higher.

    Post edited by delete5230 on
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 16,696
    edited June 10
    The title is clickbait.

    What WoW did is took EQ1 design and made it accessible for masses, both in terms of soloability and low system requirements.

    They replaced "mob grinding" by questing.

    Vanilla was the best iteration of WoW but "the most brilliant video game ever made" - lol, no - note "video game" not MMO, nor MMORPG but *video game*




    Post edited by DMKano on
    ConstantineMerusKyleranDistopiaPhaserlightwaynejr2
  • delete5230delete5230 Member RarePosts: 4,109
    DMKano said:
    The title is clickbait.

    What WoW did is took EQ1 design and made it accessible for masses, both in terms of soloability and low system requirements.

    They replaced "mob grinding" by questing.

    Vanilla was the best iteration of WoW but "the most brilliant video game ever made" - lol, no



    It took a very crude design ( EQ1) and made a Brilliant living breathing world, 10x times over.
    Demogorgon
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 16,696
    DMKano said:
    The title is clickbait.

    What WoW did is took EQ1 design and made it accessible for masses, both in terms of soloability and low system requirements.

    They replaced "mob grinding" by questing.

    Vanilla was the best iteration of WoW but "the most brilliant video game ever made" - lol, no



    It took a very crude design ( EQ1) and made a Brilliant living breathing world, 10x times over.

    EQ1 was not a crude design, it was Dikumud based. 

    EQ1 had way deeper gameplay systems that WoW completely gutted for the sake of mass appeal.

    EQ1s faction system, no instances made it a lot more of a living breathig world than WoW ever was.

    Sorry that you never playes EQ1 to know this.
    ConstantineMerusKyleranwaynejr2
  • XarkoXarko Member RarePosts: 734
    edited June 10
    No, Vanilla was pretty bad if you look at it objectively. These days, nobody would dare to release a AAA MMO with so many flawed and user unfriendly features. It only started getting decent close to BC launch.
    Post edited by Xarko on
    Dekahn
  • CoatedCoated Woodside, CAMember UncommonPosts: 440
    What WOW did better than everyone else (And is still doing better than everyone else) is in the game engine. 
    Dekahn
  • KellerKeller UtrechtMember UncommonPosts: 408
    edited June 10
    Jeez, OP shared his opinion with us. If I understand our Legendary forum posters correctly the most brilliant car must have been created in the 1800s, because it was the first and the rest are just copies?

    WoW Vanilla was brilliant, because they've read the gaming market. They presented us a game that was easily to learn to play, had low hardware requirements (EQ2 didn't), was fun to play and teased us to keep logging in every day. WoW proved to be a stepping stone in online gaming for so many of us, as we evolved and picked up new mmos.

    Ford did the same with the Model T.

     It says enough that millions of people are still playing WoW. Maybe EQ1 was a better game and the inspiration for WoW (and so many other mmos), but WoW got  so many more players hooked than EQ1 ever had.
    Post edited by Keller on
    MightyUnclean
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,106
    It would be one thing if you said MMORPG. Which I'd still disagree with in terms of systems. Profits on the other hand... sure, as far as western devs go. 

    Yet you said video game... That's a WTF statement if I've ever seen one. 
    ConstantineMerus

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Jean-Luc_PicardJean-Luc_Picard La BarreMember EpicPosts: 6,543
    edited June 11
    I've been a WoW player since beta, and of course day one of release in November 2004.

    Vanilla WoW was definitely a welcome and badly needed improvement over mobs grinders like EQ or DAoC. Blizzard realized that is was more fun to kill mobs to level for the sake of a story, no matter how simplistic it was, instead of mindlessly grind the same mob camp for hours to get a small portion of a level you could also lose at the slightest mistake or Internet disconnection.

    Burning crusade helped WoW to mature, removed some mistakes and added a few others too (the keying mechanism was a nightmare).

    WotLK is the best expansion of WoW, and the period where the game was at its best for me, and apparently I'm not alone with that opinion since that's also when the game hit its highest player count. The talent trees were perfect, the story centered on the Lich King amazing, quests were varied and fun, hybrid builds were still possible and fun to play, and you had the best raids WoW has ever known, notably Ulduar.

    Vanilla was an unfinished prototype. A nice one, granted.
    WotLK was the "most brilliant" era of WoW though. By far.

    PS: I won't comment much about the "clickbait" title. It's sadly an habit of that poster. Welcome to the Internet, where everyone can post bullshit and get away with it.
    Post edited by Jean-Luc_Picard on
    MrMelGibsonKilrane
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  • LeviNaseyLeviNasey Member CommonPosts: 6
    can you play it in low graphicks?


  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INMember RarePosts: 5,366
    I liked WoW vanilla, thought it was a fresh new experience after several years of EQ and AO, but for me I found it too easy.....WoW was built too much for a solo experience, and while questing was fun at first, it did get old after a few months of it.
    Dekahn
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 12,987
    edited June 11
    I will use a very simple argument to prove this title statement is WRONG.

    My fave game of FFXI changed by leaps and bounds ,way more so than any form of Wow and guess what ,players began to leave very quickly.

    With Wow every time a new expansion,millions come back,game still sailed along even after change.
    So if vanilla so good,why did everyone not leave and force Blizzard to fix the game?

    I seriously laugh at the notion of pushing movement keys to simply move "while doing NOTHING" from quest to quest and npc to npc is more fun over killing mobs.
    pretty simple FACT,Wow survived on raiding>>>>FOR LOOT,NOBODY wants loot for the purpose of moving from npc to npc to get a quest,they want it to KILL MOBS...go figure so obvious.

    So Wow accomplished nothing except make getting xp EASIER but making gameplay even more boring,well unless you want to argue that just running around is pretty darn exciting.
    I can only imagine how many hours/days are wasted simply moving from npc to npc to get a quest and turn it in,i cringe to even think about it.
    Post edited by Wizardry on

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • HatefullHatefull Member RarePosts: 1,467
    I just found my original soft cover game manual from 2004, the glue rotted away and you have to be careful when handling it.  Anyway I was looking it over and that's when I realized World of Warcraft was a masterpiece.  In fact to this day no other comes close thirteen years later. 

    Think about it !..... When this game was being developed it didn't have many ideas to steel from.  Even more, mmo's were in the early stages and were not an extreme big thing.  Yet lots of love was poured into the making anyway, to add even more the game was HUGE....... What would make designers take such a chance in devoting so much time with little competition ?  


    Putting aside all this, their is way more.

    Developers knew how to reach every type of player, they knew how to reach into the minds and know how people think by giving something to everyone !

    -You can be a shy solo player by doing single person quest.  You can pick a zone theme and play their and live a life in your own area and not leave for ten levels, or sit in Ironforge and play the auction "forever". 

    -People with online personalities could round up a group and fight Hogger together with friends or make new ones.  Remember the value of a friends list ?..... This feature lost its way.  You needed them if you were this type of player or not, that's the best part. 

    -Then you had the take charge people that took on guild ownership " in a game where it counted "..... So many games today have meaningless guilds.

    -How about deep coordination in Dungeons or Raids... They nailed it on their first try.  Don't forget this was 2004. Tanks and healers needed to know their roll, even dps could kill a groups day or make it depending on their actions..... Talking about dungeons, wow lots, and so amazing how we had at least two choices at any given time starting at level 15 on the Alliance side, and 12 on the Horde.

    -PvP, In 2004 open world PvP is still un-matched.  Nothing EVER CAME CLOSE to this natural feature !  No other game ever had two faction gameplay where it was a secret of what was going on with the other side !!!!!
     

    What would be the motivation of a group of people to take such a chance in something so unproven ?   

    Uhh yeah...their whole design philosophy was; look at what is working in other games, mimic that, wrap it in a bright colored package and make it accessible to anyone. That is not exactly verbatim, but it is really close to a document that was released by blizzard early on.

    The only real masterful thing they did was make it really easy for anyone to pick up the hobby, and just difficult to master to keep people coming back. Arguably that is not the case since Blizzard started adding expansions to WoW, but in the beginning that was pretty much it.

    Not much risk involved, just the potential to generate massive income, and a very masterful use of advertising imo. 

    As to the rest of your opinion, I will chalk that up to just not know what you are talking about as you joined the hobby really late.

    @Kyleran Popcorn worthy indeed!

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • HatefullHatefull Member RarePosts: 1,467
    Distopia said:
    It would be one thing if you said MMORPG. Which I'd still disagree with in terms of systems. Profits on the other hand... sure, as far as western devs go. 

    Yet you said video game... That's a WTF statement if I've ever seen one. 
    lol please point to a game anywhere that at its peak had 14M unique accounts. I really hope you say Lineage 1 which at its peak, it had about 3M players. I just looked that up the other day for a different thread. Also, Korean Game Developers report their earnings in WON, not Dollars, so before you go quoting me income VS stats, ensure you do the conversion.

    While there are emerging game markets all over the world and I suspect, based solely on amount of people alone the Western developers will be toppled some day. Korea and the U.S. are at this point the big players, and the U.S. mainly due to Blizzard. Which if you are interested Overwatch is posting some very impressive numbers for Blizzard as well. Worldwide, but the revenue is still coming to a Western company. 
    Dekahn

    If you want a new idea, go read an old book.

  • CallsignVegaCallsignVega Chicago, ILMember UncommonPosts: 272
    WoW was/is crap compare to EQ1. 
    DekahnthunderC
  • CallsignVegaCallsignVega Chicago, ILMember UncommonPosts: 272
    WoW was/is crap compare to EQ1. Having a huge number of mouth breathing followers does not a great game make. 

    turinmacleodthunderC
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