We all know what type of games we once enjoyed playing and given that we did enjoy the style there is a fairly good chance we will enjoy that style once again.
The problem with nostalgia is when you willfully ignore flaws that annoyed us with those old games and believe that we will accept those flaws in a new release. We had an emotional connection to those old games that we simply won't have with a modern release.
I know what kind of old game I want to play and I also know the kind of improvements that has to be done for me to play that type of game again.
thing is, I gamed when Kings Quest first came out, my family played board games before the computer came out and I played D&D before we got a computer in about 1980.
I played the computer interpretation of D&D and for me I felt like it was a bunch of horseshit. I didnt like Kings Quest (much later of course) and I felt like the computer gaming industry was starting to miss the point of games.
But I do understand (and knew) people who liked them, but its ridicously over rated
I have gone from the SSI rpg's, played the infinity engine RPG's and I also played the new isometric RPG and its safe to say I like party-based crpg.
I also like newer stuff but its easy to sell me on a style I already enjoy compared to selling me something I have no idea whether I like or not. Once I'm sold on something new I want more of it. However, you can't give me more of it without making a slight improvement on things.
so I felt that Neverwinter Nights 1/2 were the first games that got D&D right (and the only).
But I want to use D&D as an example of what I am talking about. So in an RPG you have attributes, classes and levels. fair enough. Then came along skills instead of classes ok fair enough What D&D never really touched on (at least I am aware of is) Farming. ok now you can farm, oh and now you can cook oh and now you can mine for ore, smelt the ore make a sword make a better sword
All those things didnt really exist in table top D&D. Ok fair enough but they did exist in many games of the past right?....like farming?..... ok well wait a second.
There you are with your farm and your mine and your cool sword, what if you could build your own house? to your own specs? How about a boat? how about a HUGE boat? how about trading with your neighboors? How about making your propertly larger? how about raising some horses? how about breeding horses so they become better after each generation? how about physic? structureal intgrity? how about being able to build anywhere or destroy anything? how about being able to leave a planet and land on another to do the same?
table top D&D didnt come even remotely close to these things, nor did games of the past.
D&D always had hack&slash adventuring focus. It wasn't a game where you lived a life, you went out exploring and killing baddies. I wasn't a fan of NWN because instead of making an adventure group you now made a main character and I felt that the D&D system didn't support that style of playing.
I'm not sure why you would want rpg style progressions in builder games, if you want to build things you are a craftsman that has it as their life profession and not someone that tries all sorts of things.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
We all know what type of games we once enjoyed playing and given that we did enjoy the style there is a fairly good chance we will enjoy that style once again.
The problem with nostalgia is when you willfully ignore flaws that annoyed us with those old games and believe that we will accept those flaws in a new release. We had an emotional connection to those old games that we simply won't have with a modern release.
I know what kind of old game I want to play and I also know the kind of improvements that has to be done for me to play that type of game again.
thing is, I gamed when Kings Quest first came out, my family played board games before the computer came out and I played D&D before we got a computer in about 1980.
I played the computer interpretation of D&D and for me I felt like it was a bunch of horseshit. I didnt like Kings Quest (much later of course) and I felt like the computer gaming industry was starting to miss the point of games.
But I do understand (and knew) people who liked them, but its ridicously over rated
I have gone from the SSI rpg's, played the infinity engine RPG's and I also played the new isometric RPG and its safe to say I like party-based crpg.
I also like newer stuff but its easy to sell me on a style I already enjoy compared to selling me something I have no idea whether I like or not. Once I'm sold on something new I want more of it. However, you can't give me more of it without making a slight improvement on things.
so I felt that Neverwinter Nights 1/2 were the first games that got D&D right (and the only).
But I want to use D&D as an example of what I am talking about. So in an RPG you have attributes, classes and levels. fair enough. Then came along skills instead of classes ok fair enough What D&D never really touched on (at least I am aware of is) Farming. ok now you can farm, oh and now you can cook oh and now you can mine for ore, smelt the ore make a sword make a better sword
All those things didnt really exist in table top D&D. Ok fair enough but they did exist in many games of the past right?....like farming?..... ok well wait a second.
There you are with your farm and your mine and your cool sword, what if you could build your own house? to your own specs? How about a boat? how about a HUGE boat? how about trading with your neighboors? How about making your propertly larger? how about raising some horses? how about breeding horses so they become better after each generation? how about physic? structureal intgrity? how about being able to build anywhere or destroy anything? how about being able to leave a planet and land on another to do the same?
table top D&D didnt come even remotely close to these things, nor did games of the past.
D&D always had hack&slash adventuring focus. It wasn't a game where you lived a life, you went out exploring and killing baddies. I wasn't a fan of NWN because instead of making an adventure group you now made a main character and I felt that the D&D system didn't support that style of playing.
I'm not sure why you would want rpg style progressions in builder games, if you want to build things you are a craftsman that has it as their life profession and not someone that tries all sorts of things.
that is not correct. D&D had some outer corners wanting to expand the platform and they did. The only reason gary gygax didnt do it is because he didnt get around to it frankly
However, that history is beside the point you are making which appears to me this:
You think doing anything other than hack and slash in a game is a bad thing and you miss the days when that is all you did and you have zero interest in expanding game play beyond that.
and to be fair that might not be an unreasonable position. Maybe what I dont see is that you and your friends enjoy pure hack and slash and stay away from crafting and farming etc BUT you felt the combat systems of old were somehow better then they are now.
That is a position I dont 'buy' so to speak but it is something that is logically plausable.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If we are being nostalgic and want the challenge that older games provide, why do those older games (that are still around - EQ, DAOC, etc...) not have larger populations?
Sure some be explained by graphics and mechanics but I still wonder....and I have theories.
And please note - my question is meant to be rhetorical and not critical. I think the idea of nostalgia is great but translating that into a successful and profitable MMO is difficult.
It is graphics and the power creep for me. Raids stopped being epic battles that you would likely lose into just something you did to kill a few hours. EQ released companions and a macro system that allowed you to essentially farm afk with no problem. Gear became so ridiculous that you stomp all over the earlier raids and party sizes began to shrink.
All that said, I still play on an Ultima Online private shard because the challenge, and need for teamwork is still there. There is quite a bit of content that you can't even come close to soloing even if you have the best gear. They also have pretty hard lines drawn for afk botters.
We all know what type of games we once enjoyed playing and given that we did enjoy the style there is a fairly good chance we will enjoy that style once again.
The problem with nostalgia is when you willfully ignore flaws that annoyed us with those old games and believe that we will accept those flaws in a new release. We had an emotional connection to those old games that we simply won't have with a modern release.
I know what kind of old game I want to play and I also know the kind of improvements that has to be done for me to play that type of game again.
thing is, I gamed when Kings Quest first came out, my family played board games before the computer came out and I played D&D before we got a computer in about 1980.
I played the computer interpretation of D&D and for me I felt like it was a bunch of horseshit. I didnt like Kings Quest (much later of course) and I felt like the computer gaming industry was starting to miss the point of games.
But I do understand (and knew) people who liked them, but its ridicously over rated
I have gone from the SSI rpg's, played the infinity engine RPG's and I also played the new isometric RPG and its safe to say I like party-based crpg.
I also like newer stuff but its easy to sell me on a style I already enjoy compared to selling me something I have no idea whether I like or not. Once I'm sold on something new I want more of it. However, you can't give me more of it without making a slight improvement on things.
so I felt that Neverwinter Nights 1/2 were the first games that got D&D right (and the only).
But I want to use D&D as an example of what I am talking about. So in an RPG you have attributes, classes and levels. fair enough. Then came along skills instead of classes ok fair enough What D&D never really touched on (at least I am aware of is) Farming. ok now you can farm, oh and now you can cook oh and now you can mine for ore, smelt the ore make a sword make a better sword
All those things didnt really exist in table top D&D. Ok fair enough but they did exist in many games of the past right?....like farming?..... ok well wait a second.
There you are with your farm and your mine and your cool sword, what if you could build your own house? to your own specs? How about a boat? how about a HUGE boat? how about trading with your neighboors? How about making your propertly larger? how about raising some horses? how about breeding horses so they become better after each generation? how about physic? structureal intgrity? how about being able to build anywhere or destroy anything? how about being able to leave a planet and land on another to do the same?
table top D&D didnt come even remotely close to these things, nor did games of the past.
D&D always had hack&slash adventuring focus. It wasn't a game where you lived a life, you went out exploring and killing baddies. I wasn't a fan of NWN because instead of making an adventure group you now made a main character and I felt that the D&D system didn't support that style of playing.
I'm not sure why you would want rpg style progressions in builder games, if you want to build things you are a craftsman that has it as their life profession and not someone that tries all sorts of things.
that is not correct. D&D had some outer corners wanting to expand the platform and they did. The only reason gary gygax didnt do it is because he didnt get around to it frankly
However, that history is beside the point you are making which appears to me this:
You think doing anything other than hack and slash in a game is a bad thing and you miss the days when that is all you did and you have zero interest in expanding game play beyond that.
I prefer games that are great at one thing over games that are mediocre at a lot of things. The splitting of resources is why mmorpg that try to be both themeparks and sandboxes fail me completely.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
We all know what type of games we once enjoyed playing and given that we did enjoy the style there is a fairly good chance we will enjoy that style once again.
The problem with nostalgia is when you willfully ignore flaws that annoyed us with those old games and believe that we will accept those flaws in a new release. We had an emotional connection to those old games that we simply won't have with a modern release.
I know what kind of old game I want to play and I also know the kind of improvements that has to be done for me to play that type of game again.
thing is, I gamed when Kings Quest first came out, my family played board games before the computer came out and I played D&D before we got a computer in about 1980.
I played the computer interpretation of D&D and for me I felt like it was a bunch of horseshit. I didnt like Kings Quest (much later of course) and I felt like the computer gaming industry was starting to miss the point of games.
But I do understand (and knew) people who liked them, but its ridicously over rated
I have gone from the SSI rpg's, played the infinity engine RPG's and I also played the new isometric RPG and its safe to say I like party-based crpg.
I also like newer stuff but its easy to sell me on a style I already enjoy compared to selling me something I have no idea whether I like or not. Once I'm sold on something new I want more of it. However, you can't give me more of it without making a slight improvement on things.
so I felt that Neverwinter Nights 1/2 were the first games that got D&D right (and the only).
But I want to use D&D as an example of what I am talking about. So in an RPG you have attributes, classes and levels. fair enough. Then came along skills instead of classes ok fair enough What D&D never really touched on (at least I am aware of is) Farming. ok now you can farm, oh and now you can cook oh and now you can mine for ore, smelt the ore make a sword make a better sword
All those things didnt really exist in table top D&D. Ok fair enough but they did exist in many games of the past right?....like farming?..... ok well wait a second.
There you are with your farm and your mine and your cool sword, what if you could build your own house? to your own specs? How about a boat? how about a HUGE boat? how about trading with your neighboors? How about making your propertly larger? how about raising some horses? how about breeding horses so they become better after each generation? how about physic? structureal intgrity? how about being able to build anywhere or destroy anything? how about being able to leave a planet and land on another to do the same?
table top D&D didnt come even remotely close to these things, nor did games of the past.
D&D always had hack&slash adventuring focus. It wasn't a game where you lived a life, you went out exploring and killing baddies. I wasn't a fan of NWN because instead of making an adventure group you now made a main character and I felt that the D&D system didn't support that style of playing.
I'm not sure why you would want rpg style progressions in builder games, if you want to build things you are a craftsman that has it as their life profession and not someone that tries all sorts of things.
that is not correct. D&D had some outer corners wanting to expand the platform and they did. The only reason gary gygax didnt do it is because he didnt get around to it frankly
However, that history is beside the point you are making which appears to me this:
You think doing anything other than hack and slash in a game is a bad thing and you miss the days when that is all you did and you have zero interest in expanding game play beyond that.
I prefer games that are great at one thing over games that are mediocre at a lot of things. The splitting of resources is why mmorpg that try to be both themeparks and sandboxes fail me completely.
dang it I was hopping I was actually on to a level of understanding or middle ground with my theory that folks here arent really intrested in anything other than hack and slash BUT they missed how hack and slash was done in the past. So much for that.
I guess I am back to people just wanting to play the victim and go out of their way to see the exciting things happening in the industry instead.
now to your claim, you have zero idea of those features are mediocre or excellent. One would have to at least get a little into game beyond 'this game has farming so it must be implemented mediocre' which of course is horseshit logic. The only way to know that level of detail is to be rather familar with the games i am talking about, which you arent
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I still blame WoW. MMORPGs were always a small nerdy niche market. Then WoW came along at the right time and became a cultural phenomenon which took MMOs out of the basement. The result has been games that were dramatically different than those that came before. Obviously more people like these new games, but that small nerdy niche is still out there... not entirely happy with what our hobby has become.
This is it for me too. The older games are better because the communities in them are older and very helpful. Its the people that make the game not just the graphics. We all are doing the same thing in mmo's weather they are old or new. I think people who's first mmo was either wow or something after wow will never understand why people still love those old mmos.
I think nostalgia is a very powerful force and we can tap into it to build awesome MMOs of the future.
The difficulty is trying to work out exactly what we are nostalgic for. For example, I loved SWG pre-cu and often wish I could still play it. Yet, each time I join an emu, I will play for a month or so, complete my template, collect decent gear, visit some points of interest, usually play through the geonosian caves a few times and then....get bored and quit.
In this specific case, whilst I am nostalgic for some of the mechanics, the mechanics alone aren't what I'm craving, it is the whole package: the gameplay, the graphics, the sounds and the community, the whole feeling that we were all constantly learning and exploring a new world and a competition between guildies as to who could advance quickest / get jedi / solo krayts etc.
It is my personal belief that the majority of nostalgia for past MMOs comes more from the communities at the time than it does for any specific features. The features certainly guided the community and helped it to develop, but we as players have since moved on and those same features are no longer capable to generating the same community feel.
Instead, we need a new approach - we need to identify precisely what we are nostalgic for, then look for new ways to generate that same feeling.
As an example, I used to enjoy the PvP in SWG. For me, it was characterised by fairly large scale, long running battles, usually culminating at a player city base or back at a shuttle / spaceport. Assuming proper templates, it would take ages to kill someone, terrain played a big part and player cities were a big focus.
Simply implementing player cities and long time-to-kill wouldn't recapture this feeling, so you need a new approach. One might well be what camelot unchained are doing: allowing players to design and build their own structures in the world and allowing enemies to destroy them. This captures the core essence (oh look! that guild has a new base, lets go fight them!) but uses much more modern techniques that will hopefully be a lot more engaging that what SWG did.
I think nostalgia is a very powerful force and we can tap into it to build awesome MMOs of the future. ....
I disagree with this premise from the very start.
i think nostalgia at the level we are talking about is unhealthy and repressents more of a time in a persons life when they felt happy and safe for reasons not to do with games but they associate that feeling with games.
I think the game play people want exists today and even MORE game play including game play they wanted back in the day but didnt exist at the time but does exist now.
imo
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I still blame WoW. MMORPGs were always a small nerdy niche market. Then WoW came along at the right time and became a cultural phenomenon which took MMOs out of the basement. The result has been games that were dramatically different than those that came before. Obviously more people like these new games, but that small nerdy niche is still out there... not entirely happy with what our hobby has become.
I think technology had a lot to do with it. While MMO's were emerging the tech advanced and became easier. You no longer needed to be computer geeky to play MMO's. Now you buy a console or computer and D/L the game and you're good to go most of the time. Easy access for the masses.
"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
I don't want the new games to be like the old ones I used to play. I want them to be better.
Yeah exactly, the problem is that they aren't getting better -...
MMOs might not be but regular games are absolutely getting better. 15 years ago the number of games that had anything similar to crafting was zero (maybe 1) the number of games that had building in it was zero (maybe 1).
In 2002 seven city building games were lauched including Sim City 4 and others.
Let's not forget strategy games, Warcraft 3 came out the same year, along with C&C Renegade.
Alchemy as a craft was present in Elder scrolls III Morrowind though you could not craft your own armor.(at least unitl modders came along.)
Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 launched in 2002 along with Zoo Tycoon: Dinosaur Digs.
Of course multiple MMOs were offering crafting and building throughout this era and likely their pinnacle in terms of crafting came in 2003 with SWGs launch.
What you see as new ideas in 2017 are largely refinements of ideas that existed 15 years ago.
Of course technology has improved what can be offered, but little of it is really new.
please struggle to understand how games like Subnautica, Dual Universe, The Forest, 7 days to die are actually not just a bunch of slight changes on a theme without me having to explain it because its getting exhausting on what should be painfully obvious
Should it be painfully obvious to people who haven't played those games? How about to people who never heard of those games?
More importantly, just because those games have a given feature doesn't tell us where you thoughts and feelings on the matter. Unless you believe we all think alike on such things which is wrong. So avoiding talking about it doesn't help.
Imagine you and I like feature X of game y. Does that mean we like it for the same reason? Haha, not guaranteed. So your thoughts on it matter...(Well, perhaps not your thoughts. j/k) but it should be if you want to communicate your position.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I don't want the new games to be like the old ones I used to play. I want them to be better.
Yeah exactly, the problem is that they aren't getting better -...
MMOs might not be but regular games are absolutely getting better. 15 years ago the number of games that had anything similar to crafting was zero (maybe 1) the number of games that had building in it was zero (maybe 1).
In 2002 seven city building games were lauched including Sim City 4 and others.
Let's not forget strategy games, Warcraft 3 came out the same year, along with C&C Renegade.
Alchemy as a craft was present in Elder scrolls III Morrowind though you could not craft your own armor.(at least unitl modders came along.)
Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 launched in 2002 along with Zoo Tycoon: Dinosaur Digs.
Of course multiple MMOs were offering crafting and building throughout this era and likely their pinnacle in terms of crafting came in 2003 with SWGs launch.
What you see as new ideas in 2017 are largely refinements of ideas that existed 15 years ago.
Of course technology has improved what can be offered, but little of it is really new.
please struggle to understand how games like Subnautica, Dual Universe, The Forest, 7 days to die are actually not just a bunch of slight changes on a theme without me having to explain it because its getting exhausting on what should be painfully obvious
Should it be painfully obvious to people who haven't played those games? How about to people who never heard of those games?
More importantly, just because those games have a given feature doesn't tell us where you thoughts and feelings on the matter. Unless you believe we all think alike on such things which is wrong. So avoiding talking about it doesn't help.
Imagine you and I like feature X of game y. Does that mean we like it for the same reason? Haha, not guaranteed. So your thoughts on it matter...(Well, perhaps not your thoughts. j/k) but it should be if you want to communicate your position.
well to be fair I DO think it should be painfully obvious even to those who have not played the game but people who have never heard of the games but read my posts and dont give a single solitary fuck to find out what those games are that I am refering to?
and instead of looking into or asking me what those games are spend a great deal of mental engery coming up with logic as to why those games (that they dont know of) are not able to bring them satisfaction?
is that what you are suggesting?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I agree that we don't really get nostalgic about the games we used to play.
In this specific case, whilst I am nostalgic for some of the mechanics, the mechanics alone aren't what I'm craving, it is the whole package: the gameplay, the graphics, the sounds and the community, the whole feeling that we were all constantly learning and exploring a new world and a competition between guildies as to who could advance quickest / get jedi / solo krayts etc.
Instead, we need a new approach - we need to identify precisely what we are nostalgic for, then look for new ways to generate that same feeling.
Simply implementing player cities and long time-to-kill wouldn't recapture this feeling, so you need a new approach. One might well be what camelot unchained are doing: allowing players to design and build their own structures in the world and allowing enemies to destroy them. This captures the core essence (oh look! that guild has a new base, lets go fight them!) but uses much more modern techniques that will hopefully be a lot more engaging that what SWG did.
I think it's more about how easy we got involved and dive into gaming. Luckily we are living in VR/AR era!
I don't want the new games to be like the old ones I used to play. I want them to be better.
Yeah exactly, the problem is that they aren't getting better -...
MMOs might not be but regular games are absolutely getting better. 15 years ago the number of games that had anything similar to crafting was zero (maybe 1) the number of games that had building in it was zero (maybe 1).
In 2002 seven city building games were lauched including Sim City 4 and others.
Let's not forget strategy games, Warcraft 3 came out the same year, along with C&C Renegade.
Alchemy as a craft was present in Elder scrolls III Morrowind though you could not craft your own armor.(at least unitl modders came along.)
Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 launched in 2002 along with Zoo Tycoon: Dinosaur Digs.
Of course multiple MMOs were offering crafting and building throughout this era and likely their pinnacle in terms of crafting came in 2003 with SWGs launch.
What you see as new ideas in 2017 are largely refinements of ideas that existed 15 years ago.
Of course technology has improved what can be offered, but little of it is really new.
please struggle to understand how games like Subnautica, Dual Universe, The Forest, 7 days to die are actually not just a bunch of slight changes on a theme without me having to explain it because its getting exhausting on what should be painfully obvious
Should it be painfully obvious to people who haven't played those games? How about to people who never heard of those games?
More importantly, just because those games have a given feature doesn't tell us where you thoughts and feelings on the matter. Unless you believe we all think alike on such things which is wrong. So avoiding talking about it doesn't help.
Imagine you and I like feature X of game y. Does that mean we like it for the same reason? Haha, not guaranteed. So your thoughts on it matter...(Well, perhaps not your thoughts. j/k) but it should be if you want to communicate your position.
I have given my view on this subject matter countless times but ok
In this current era of gaming which started around 2013 I have more games that I adore then in the entire other 33 years of gaming combined. What used to be a favorite list of games spanning of about 3 or 4 (covering 33 years) is now about 10 all of which have been available only in the last few years. I now have (for the first time in my 37 years of gaming) more games that I am excited to play then I will likely have in a life time to full absorb. It is by a LONG SHOT, the best era of gaming ever, not by a small margin but by a very large huge margin!
So having lived and gamed back in the day I can say..no..gaming was not better back then and those who think it was are likely not paying attention to what is going on now and are looking to the wrong sources of information to inform them.
Does that make it remotely more clear?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
I'm not sure why you would want rpg style progressions in builder games, if you want to build things you are a craftsman that has it as their life profession and not someone that tries all sorts of things.
D&D had some outer corners wanting to expand the platform and they did.
The only reason gary gygax didnt do it is because he didnt get around to it frankly
However, that history is beside the point you are making which appears to me this:
You think doing anything other than hack and slash in a game is a bad thing and you miss the days when that is all you did and you have zero interest in expanding game play beyond that.
and to be fair that might not be an unreasonable position. Maybe what I dont see is that you and your friends enjoy pure hack and slash and stay away from crafting and farming etc BUT you felt the combat systems of old were somehow better then they are now.
That is a position I dont 'buy' so to speak but it is something that is logically plausable.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
All that said, I still play on an Ultima Online private shard because the challenge, and need for teamwork is still there. There is quite a bit of content that you can't even come close to soloing even if you have the best gear. They also have pretty hard lines drawn for afk botters.
I guess I am back to people just wanting to play the victim and go out of their way to see the exciting things happening in the industry instead.
now to your claim, you have zero idea of those features are mediocre or excellent. One would have to at least get a little into game beyond 'this game has farming so it must be implemented mediocre' which of course is horseshit logic. The only way to know that level of detail is to be rather familar with the games i am talking about, which you arent
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
I do believe there are some who are interested, but most have moved beyond it.
The difficulty is trying to work out exactly what we are nostalgic for. For example, I loved SWG pre-cu and often wish I could still play it. Yet, each time I join an emu, I will play for a month or so, complete my template, collect decent gear, visit some points of interest, usually play through the geonosian caves a few times and then....get bored and quit.
In this specific case, whilst I am nostalgic for some of the mechanics, the mechanics alone aren't what I'm craving, it is the whole package: the gameplay, the graphics, the sounds and the community, the whole feeling that we were all constantly learning and exploring a new world and a competition between guildies as to who could advance quickest / get jedi / solo krayts etc.
It is my personal belief that the majority of nostalgia for past MMOs comes more from the communities at the time than it does for any specific features. The features certainly guided the community and helped it to develop, but we as players have since moved on and those same features are no longer capable to generating the same community feel.
Instead, we need a new approach - we need to identify precisely what we are nostalgic for, then look for new ways to generate that same feeling.
As an example, I used to enjoy the PvP in SWG. For me, it was characterised by fairly large scale, long running battles, usually culminating at a player city base or back at a shuttle / spaceport. Assuming proper templates, it would take ages to kill someone, terrain played a big part and player cities were a big focus.
Simply implementing player cities and long time-to-kill wouldn't recapture this feeling, so you need a new approach. One might well be what camelot unchained are doing: allowing players to design and build their own structures in the world and allowing enemies to destroy them. This captures the core essence (oh look! that guild has a new base, lets go fight them!) but uses much more modern techniques that will hopefully be a lot more engaging that what SWG did.
I think the game play people want exists today and even MORE game play including game play they wanted back in the day but didnt exist at the time but does exist now.
imo
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"We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are." SR Covey
More importantly, just because those games have a given feature doesn't tell us where you thoughts and feelings on the matter. Unless you believe we all think alike on such things which is wrong. So avoiding talking about it doesn't help.
Imagine you and I like feature X of game y. Does that mean we like it for the same reason? Haha, not guaranteed. So your thoughts on it matter...(Well, perhaps not your thoughts. j/k) but it should be if you want to communicate your position.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
and instead of looking into or asking me what those games are spend a great deal of mental engery coming up with logic as to why those games (that they dont know of) are not able to bring them satisfaction?
is that what you are suggesting?
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I think it's more about how easy we got involved and dive into gaming.
Luckily we are living in VR/AR era!
In this current era of gaming which started around 2013 I have more games that I adore then in the entire other 33 years of gaming combined. What used to be a favorite list of games spanning of about 3 or 4 (covering 33 years) is now about 10 all of which have been available only in the last few years.
I now have (for the first time in my 37 years of gaming) more games that I am excited to play then I will likely have in a life time to full absorb. It is by a LONG SHOT, the best era of gaming ever, not by a small margin but by a very large huge margin!
So having lived and gamed back in the day I can say..no..gaming was not better back then and those who think it was are likely not paying attention to what is going on now and are looking to the wrong sources of information to inform them.
Does that make it remotely more clear?
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me