I hate the word nostalgic. It makes it sound like someone wants the mmo equivalent of Leave it to Beaver. That's not what I want. I want a challenging, community driven game where the investment of my time has value and where rewards are not cheap and easy.
Although, you could have a "Leave it to Beaver" setting to play with and you could call it Nightmare Mode!
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I hate the word nostalgic. It makes it sound like someone wants the mmo equivalent of Leave it to Beaver. That's not what I want. I want a challenging, community driven game where the investment of my time has value and where rewards are not cheap and easy.
Dual Universe
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I haven't been able to really get into an MMO since CIty of Heroes ended. It hasn't been for lack of trying either. I've tried four other games since then and none had the community CoH had. I'm not blind to the game's faults, but it pioneered a lot of mechanics we expect from games these days so I'm more forgiving and understanding about its limitations.
That's what you have to find, the balance point between fondly remembering the past while not overlooking the bad parts too.
I don't want the new games to be like the old ones I used to play. I want them to be better.
Yeah exactly, the problem is that they aren't getting better - From the perspective of some players. It is not that games are not getting better, they just don't get better in the areas that matter to those players. Mmorpgs get better at monetization, animation, simplification, marketing tricks (boobs), instant gratification, efficiency, graphics, personal story telling (you are the hero), weeding out all the things that could cause any discomfort to the player and so on - And in this process, the things these players look for in a mmorpg get neglected or simply die.
Nostalgia is a very narrow minded word used to dismiss the fact that mmorpgs aren't targeting the players who want that kind of depth and longevity in a mmorpg. The players who look through rose tinted glasses are quite few although loud; but it is not about that at all - It is about mmorpgs not targeting this kind of player; it just happens that some past mmorpgs did this and therefore are those you can refer to. The old players know what they are missing, the new players who want the same can't exactly put it into words but you can read it between the lines. Not everyone want this kind of mmorpg experience, but those who do are of all kinds, the kid who plays dota but want something more meaningful, the tabletop player, the casual player who wants to feel a part of the world. And in all these kinds are also old farts some with rose tinted views and some hoping for more progressive mmorpgs.
They (we) are tiered of fluff, and looking for that kind of game that offers feeling of accomplishment, deep quality mechanics, long lasting experience and all those things the superficial mmorpg does not offer. No amount of smooth animations and flashy effects can replace good game mechanics.. for us. On rails stories is not what we want from a mmorpg.
Paragraph one is possibly one of the biggest cop-outs ever. You can't dispute it, but can't support it. You make grand, sweeping generalizations about why MMOs today are popular.
The last paragraph tells the tale of a group of people who is of unknown size, but likely small, and who complain about EVERYTHING, just look at the text wall above. The problem is that for as much as these so-called "purists" LOVE!!!!! the old-school experience, they are consistently the first to complain about graphics, they are the first to complain about animations, they are the first to complain about how a single mechanic is game-breaking for them. Ultimately, these gamers are looking for an experience which is designed specifically for their taste, and don't ever change anything or I'll leave. The proof is in the pudding. There are plenty of old-school games that have/are available. If they were bursting at the seams with users, then there would be no need to develop something new. However, they see some of the lowest populations of any games available right now, so much so that DBG can't even be bothered to spend the money policing EQ1 emus, and instead just open it up and tell people to go wild.
What I was trying to say is that this is not about old school players. Just because some are retrogressive and want an exact copy of an old mmorpg, it does not mean that they represent everyone who are seeking a deep meaningful mmorpg experience - In fact I think they are only a small group. I don't claim the group I am talking about is huge, but probably still a decent percentage of the entire mmo player demography; out of these the old school "complainers" are only a small part. You can say these kind of players are very few, and then I can say they are more than that. But you can't really put any numbers on this because there are no modern mmorpgs with these qualities to measure on. I claim that this kind of mmorpg player is not a type of the past but instead a steady percentage of the total player base, and therefore contain players of all ages.
We all know what type of games we once enjoyed playing and given that we did enjoy the style there is a fairly good chance we will enjoy that style once again.
The problem with nostalgia is when you willfully ignore flaws that annoyed us with those old games and believe that we will accept those flaws in a new release. We had an emotional connection to those old games that we simply won't have with a modern release.
I know what kind of old game I want to play and I also know the kind of improvements that has to be done for me to play that type of game again.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
I don't want the new games to be like the old ones I used to play. I want them to be better.
Yeah exactly, the problem is that they aren't getting better -...
MMOs might not be but regular games are absolutely getting better. 15 years ago the number of games that had anything similar to crafting was zero (maybe 1) the number of games that had building in it was zero (maybe 1).
In 2002 seven city building games were lauched including Sim City 4 and others.
Let's not forget strategy games, Warcraft 3 came out the same year, along with C&C Renegade.
Alchemy as a craft was present in Elder scrolls III Morrowind though you could not craft your own armor.(at least unitl modders came along.)
Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 launched in 2002 along with Zoo Tycoon: Dinosaur Digs.
Of course multiple MMOs were offering crafting and building throughout this era and likely their pinnacle in terms of crafting came in 2003 with SWGs launch.
What you see as new ideas in 2017 are largely refinements of ideas that existed 15 years ago.
Of course technology has improved what can be offered, but little of it is really new.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't want the new games to be like the old ones I used to play. I want them to be better.
Yeah exactly, the problem is that they aren't getting better -...
MMOs might not be but regular games are absolutely getting better. 15 years ago the number of games that had anything similar to crafting was zero (maybe 1) the number of games that had building in it was zero (maybe 1).
In 2002 seven city building games were lauched including Sim City 4 and others.
Let's not forget strategy games, Warcraft 3 came out the same year, along with C&C Renegade.
Alchemy as a craft was present in Elder scrolls III Morrowind though you could not craft your own armor.(at least unitl modders came along.)
Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 launched in 2002 along with Zoo Tycoon: Dinosaur Digs.
Of course multiple MMOs were offering crafting and building throughout this era and likely their pinnacle in terms of crafting came in 2003 with SWGs launch.
What you see as new ideas in 2017 are largely refinements of ideas that existed 15 years ago.
Of course technology has improved what can be offered, but little of it is really new.
city building games and games like Dual Universe are clearly completely different in respect to what I am talking about.
VERY few games allowed a character to craft. VERY FEW now they are all over the place and with deeper crafting then even those few.
Most of the games you are listing are not even in the same genre I am talking about. I am talking about what The Forest has brought to the table, not fucking rollercoaster tycoon.
please struggle to understand how games like Subnautica, Dual Universe, The Forest, 7 days to die are actually not just a bunch of slight changes on a theme without me having to explain it because its getting exhausting on what should be painfully obvious
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
We all know what type of games we once enjoyed playing and given that we did enjoy the style there is a fairly good chance we will enjoy that style once again.
The problem with nostalgia is when you willfully ignore flaws that annoyed us with those old games and believe that we will accept those flaws in a new release. We had an emotional connection to those old games that we simply won't have with a modern release.
I know what kind of old game I want to play and I also know the kind of improvements that has to be done for me to play that type of game again.
thing is, I gamed when Kings Quest first came out, my family played board games before the computer came out and I played D&D before we got a computer in about 1980.
I played the computer interpretation of D&D and for me I felt like it was a bunch of horseshit. I didnt like Kings Quest (much later of course) and I felt like the computer gaming industry was starting to miss the point of games.
But I do understand (and knew) people who liked them, but its ridicously over rated
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't want the new games to be like the old ones I used to play. I want them to be better.
Yeah exactly, the problem is that they aren't getting better -...
MMOs might not be but regular games are absolutely getting better. 15 years ago the number of games that had anything similar to crafting was zero (maybe 1) the number of games that had building in it was zero (maybe 1).
In 2002 seven city building games were lauched including Sim City 4 and others.
Let's not forget strategy games, Warcraft 3 came out the same year, along with C&C Renegade.
Alchemy as a craft was present in Elder scrolls III Morrowind though you could not craft your own armor.(at least unitl modders came along.)
Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 launched in 2002 along with Zoo Tycoon: Dinosaur Digs.
Of course multiple MMOs were offering crafting and building throughout this era and likely their pinnacle in terms of crafting came in 2003 with SWGs launch.
What you see as new ideas in 2017 are largely refinements of ideas that existed 15 years ago.
Of course technology has improved what can be offered, but little of it is really new.
city building games and games like Dual Universe are clearly completely different in respect to what I am talking about.
VERY few games allowed a character to craft. VERY FEW now they are all over the place and with deeper crafting then even those few.
Most of the games you are listing are not even in the same genre I am talking about. I am talking about what The Forest has brought to the table, not fucking rollercoaster tycoon.
please struggle to understand how games like Subnautica, Dual Universe, The Forest, 7 days to die are actually not just a bunch of slight changes on a theme without me having to explain it because its getting exhausting on what should be painfully obvious
No need to be rude.
I re-read my post 3 times I do not see any evidence of rudeness.
however, when responding to someone who clearly feels very passionate about something specific he is very clear on its kind nice to have a reply related to that specific subject
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
We all know what type of games we once enjoyed playing and given that we did enjoy the style there is a fairly good chance we will enjoy that style once again.
The problem with nostalgia is when you willfully ignore flaws that annoyed us with those old games and believe that we will accept those flaws in a new release. We had an emotional connection to those old games that we simply won't have with a modern release.
I know what kind of old game I want to play and I also know the kind of improvements that has to be done for me to play that type of game again.
thing is, I gamed when Kings Quest first came out, my family played board games before the computer came out and I played D&D before we got a computer in about 1980.
I played the computer interpretation of D&D and for me I felt like it was a bunch of horseshit. I didnt like Kings Quest (much later of course) and I felt like the computer gaming industry was starting to miss the point of games.
But I do understand (and knew) people who liked them, but its ridicously over rated
I have gone from the SSI rpg's, played the infinity engine RPG's and I also played the new isometric RPG and its safe to say I like party-based crpg.
I also like newer stuff but its easy to sell me on a style I already enjoy compared to selling me something I have no idea whether I like or not. Once I'm sold on something new I want more of it. However, you can't give me more of it without making a slight improvement on things.
Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
We all know what type of games we once enjoyed playing and given that we did enjoy the style there is a fairly good chance we will enjoy that style once again.
The problem with nostalgia is when you willfully ignore flaws that annoyed us with those old games and believe that we will accept those flaws in a new release. We had an emotional connection to those old games that we simply won't have with a modern release.
I know what kind of old game I want to play and I also know the kind of improvements that has to be done for me to play that type of game again.
thing is, I gamed when Kings Quest first came out, my family played board games before the computer came out and I played D&D before we got a computer in about 1980.
I played the computer interpretation of D&D and for me I felt like it was a bunch of horseshit. I didnt like Kings Quest (much later of course) and I felt like the computer gaming industry was starting to miss the point of games.
But I do understand (and knew) people who liked them, but its ridicously over rated
I have gone from the SSI rpg's, played the infinity engine RPG's and I also played the new isometric RPG and its safe to say I like party-based crpg.
I also like newer stuff but its easy to sell me on a style I already enjoy compared to selling me something I have no idea whether I like or not. Once I'm sold on something new I want more of it. However, you can't give me more of it without making a slight improvement on things.
so I felt that Neverwinter Nights 1/2 were the first games that got D&D right (and the only).
But I want to use D&D as an example of what I am talking about. So in an RPG you have attributes, classes and levels. fair enough. Then came along skills instead of classes ok fair enough What D&D never really touched on (at least I am aware of is) Farming. ok now you can farm, oh and now you can cook oh and now you can mine for ore, smelt the ore make a sword make a better sword
All those things didnt really exist in table top D&D. Ok fair enough but they did exist in many games of the past right?....like farming?..... ok well wait a second.
There you are with your farm and your mine and your cool sword, what if you could build your own house? to your own specs? How about a boat? how about a HUGE boat? how about trading with your neighboors? How about making your propertly larger? how about raising some horses? how about breeding horses so they become better after each generation? how about physic? structureal intgrity? how about being able to build anywhere or destroy anything? how about being able to leave a planet and land on another to do the same?
table top D&D didnt come even remotely close to these things, nor did games of the past.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I don't want the new games to be like the old ones I used to play. I want them to be better.
Yeah exactly, the problem is that they aren't getting better - From the perspective of some players. It is not that games are not getting better, they just don't get better in the areas that matter to those players. Mmorpgs get better at monetization, animation, simplification, marketing tricks (boobs), instant gratification, efficiency, graphics, personal story telling (you are the hero), weeding out all the things that could cause any discomfort to the player and so on - And in this process, the things these players look for in a mmorpg get neglected or simply die.
Nostalgia is a very narrow minded word used to dismiss the fact that mmorpgs aren't targeting the players who want that kind of depth and longevity in a mmorpg. The players who look through rose tinted glasses are quite few although loud; but it is not about that at all - It is about mmorpgs not targeting this kind of player; it just happens that some past mmorpgs did this and therefore are those you can refer to. The old players know what they are missing, the new players who want the same can't exactly put it into words but you can read it between the lines. Not everyone want this kind of mmorpg experience, but those who do are of all kinds, the kid who plays dota but want something more meaningful, the tabletop player, the casual player who wants to feel a part of the world. And in all these kinds are also old farts some with rose tinted views and some hoping for more progressive mmorpgs.
They (we) are tiered of fluff, and looking for that kind of game that offers feeling of accomplishment, deep quality mechanics, long lasting experience and all those things the superficial mmorpg does not offer. No amount of smooth animations and flashy effects can replace good game mechanics.. for us. On rails stories is not what we want from a mmorpg.
Paragraph one is possibly one of the biggest cop-outs ever. You can't dispute it, but can't support it. You make grand, sweeping generalizations about why MMOs today are popular.
The last paragraph tells the tale of a group of people who is of unknown size, but likely small, and who complain about EVERYTHING, just look at the text wall above. The problem is that for as much as these so-called "purists" LOVE!!!!! the old-school experience, they are consistently the first to complain about graphics, they are the first to complain about animations, they are the first to complain about how a single mechanic is game-breaking for them. Ultimately, these gamers are looking for an experience which is designed specifically for their taste, and don't ever change anything or I'll leave. The proof is in the pudding. There are plenty of old-school games that have/are available. If they were bursting at the seams with users, then there would be no need to develop something new. However, they see some of the lowest populations of any games available right now, so much so that DBG can't even be bothered to spend the money policing EQ1 emus, and instead just open it up and tell people to go wild.
What I was trying to say is that this is not about old school players. Just because some are retrogressive and want an exact copy of an old mmorpg, it does not mean that they represent everyone who are seeking a deep meaningful mmorpg experience - In fact I think they are only a small group. I don't claim the group I am talking about is huge, but probably still a decent percentage of the entire mmo player demography; out of these the old school "complainers" are only a small part. You can say these kind of players are very few, and then I can say they are more than that. But you can't really put any numbers on this because there are no modern mmorpgs with these qualities to measure on. I claim that this kind of mmorpg player is not a type of the past but instead a steady percentage of the total player base, and therefore contain players of all ages.
Cool, yeah, I think I can agree with you on this response.
On a positive note, I don't think that this group is being ignored anymore. We've got a number of titles in the pipe which are being designed specifically with them in mind. Pantheon is one. CU is another. CF is yet another. AO is another, as is LoA. All these are approaching testing stages. Pantheon will be out this year, because it was voted most anticipated title of 2017 last year, so you know it's definitely coming out
These are all titles aimed at this nostalgia factor. Should they fail miserably then I think that it will effectively close the books on anything "old-schoolish". So I'd encourage anyone who DOES want to see more of these types of games to actually play and support them because, make no mistake, this is the time to shine.
MMOs Life is Feudal - features that never been able to exist before, deep game play, building, complex crafting.
Non-MMO (very short list) 7 Days to Die - speed crafting, huge open world, complex crafting, basebuilding where clever design actually helps, scary, thrilling, structural integrity
Space Engineers - build factories in first person, fly to other planets, HUGE planets to walk on with 100% of it destructible and buildable.
I mean seriously? the past was better? no it wasnt. its like everyone is living under a rock
Uhm, what exactly are you trying to point out? Sandbox games have always been desired. SWG is probably the closest you will see to a sandbox MMO. Name one MMO now that is a sandbox and I'm sorry man, but LiF is NOT an MMO. It will be lucky to qualify as an MO.
No one is full of shit but the fact you believe this means you should probably just avoid these discussions. I mean, look at your argument? I still don't even know what you are trying to prove.
I dont know why so many people have a hard time conceptualizing outside of offical MMO title. Never the less LIF DOES have an official card carry approved by the industry officallly called MMO.
but maybe I can work with Dual Universe.
A game like Dual Universe isnt a slight alteration on a theme from 10 years ago. Very literally a game like Dual Universe is what I am talking about here.
I ask again...please do me a favor and try to understand where I am coming from, you dont have to agree but please try to understand the intent of what I am saying
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Wow! Cool. I just wanted to hear what others have to say. In addition, I admit, I had difficulty putting in words what went on in my tiny, basically non-existent brain. Nevertheless I stand by the thought that we shoud out loud what we might want, but in the end when we do get it, don't really like it, for whatever reason.
What I am suggesting is that in games overall (perhaps not MMOs specifically but games overall). the level of depth and innovation in the gaming industry is better then it has ever been before.
and point 2, yes people at least on gaming forums are ridiculously nostalgic to the point of being unhealthy.
that is my summation
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I hear what you're saying and to a degree, I agree with you. but not on all things. For me, my preferred MMO is the Everquest style holy trinity" pull, tank, spank. I hate questing, and hate playing errand boy for a few gold pieces even more. Just give me a zone and let me go blow sh%t up. I also strongly prefer class based MMOs compared to skill tree based mmos. Lastly, I love an MMOs with an insane variety of classes. If you think Everquest 1 and 2, Shadowbane, and Dark Ages of Camelot with an updated look and feel, that is what I prefer. I am also very aware that I am in the minority here.
I hear what you're saying and to a degree, I agree with you. but not on all things. For me, my preferred MMO is the Everquest style holy trinity" pull, tank, spank. I hate questing, and hate playing errand boy for a few gold pieces even more. Just give me a zone and let me go blow sh%t up. I also strongly prefer class based MMOs compared to skill tree based mmos. Lastly, I love an MMOs with an insane variety of classes. If you think Everquest 1 and 2, Shadowbane, and Dark Ages of Camelot with an updated look and feel, that is what I prefer. I am also very aware that I am in the minority here.
not sure if you are replying to me because I see a contradiction in not liking something like Dual Universe (for example) but also not liking questing which is what that style of game is all about (not questing). Never the less, what you say in this paragraph to me sounds like nostalgia. be it for good reason or not, rational or not, it is nostalgia.
for the records
so at least for me as someone who has gamed in ever era there has been I perfer this era, i think its the best.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I think this kind of hits the nail on the head for me. Without loss, one cannot know victory. In today's market there's no losers, just wait and see.
A lot of people aren't motivated to invest time into something they know will just be made easier in the future anyway or companies just disregarding their content just 2 patches later.
Great video. It really gets to the heart of what's wrong with the World of Warcraft we have today.
'loss' at least in the single player parts of the industry has come back with avengence.
When was the last time you played a single player game that didnt allow you to save when you wanted to and multiple file names?
I have I think about 3 games in which you cant do that and its that way by design. so if you screw up your base, your file is screwed.
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I will agree. Most of my ventures into nostalgia have ended poorly. I still hate myself for trying FF1 again. Childhood officially ruined!!
FF1 isn't too bad if you get the remake on android or PSP. The original version is hard to play though.
I bought it for $15 on Apple. Is it worth $15? Probably not. SE probably giggles every time they sell a copy for $15, lol.
I'd probably wait for a sale for FF1. But imo $15 is fair for legendary games like FF4, FF6, FF7, FF9, Final Fantasy Tactics and Chrono Trigger. These games are just as amazing as they were when I bought them at launch. If you missed any of these, I highly recommend them.
MMOs Life is Feudal - features that never been able to exist before, deep game play, building, complex crafting.
Non-MMO (very short list) 7 Days to Die - speed crafting, huge open world, complex crafting, basebuilding where clever design actually helps, scary, thrilling, structural integrity
Space Engineers - build factories in first person, fly to other planets, HUGE planets to walk on with 100% of it destructible and buildable.
I mean seriously? the past was better? no it wasnt. its like everyone is living under a rock
@SEANMCAD - Life is Feudal isn't out yet. The same is true for most other titles that show the possibility of being new and interesting (And may or may not live up to expectations.)
Yes there are some very interesting looking games on the horizon that may or may not pan out. But as to MMOs currently on the market they are more stale and uninteresting right now then I think they have been at any point before.
This is largely because some of them are very old and designs that were originally interesting no longer are, but I would say we are at rock bottom atm in terms of what is currently available on the MMO market.
There is a light at the end of the tunnel, but we're still in the tunnel.
As far as non-MMO I do agree that the market isn't too bad at all. There is a ton of variety out there right now and while many of the titles out there are rehashing titles that are decades old at this point there are still so many variations of game models within non-MMO games that it's not a big deal.
MMOs Life is Feudal - features that never been able to exist before, deep game play, building, complex crafting.
Non-MMO (very short list) 7 Days to Die - speed crafting, huge open world, complex crafting, basebuilding where clever design actually helps, scary, thrilling, structural integrity
Space Engineers - build factories in first person, fly to other planets, HUGE planets to walk on with 100% of it destructible and buildable.
I mean seriously? the past was better? no it wasnt. its like everyone is living under a rock
@SEANMCAD - Life is Feudal isn't out yet. The same is true for most other titles that show the possibility of being new and interesting (And may or may not live up to expectations.)
Yes there are some very interesting looking games on the horizon that may or may not pan out. But as to MMOs currently on the market they are more stale and uninteresting right now then I think they have been at any point before.
This is largely because some of them are very old and designs that were originally interesting no longer are, but I would say we are at rock bottom atm in terms of what is currently available on the MMO market.
There is a light at the end of the tunnel, but we're still in the tunnel.
As far as non-MMO I do agree that the market isn't too bad at all. There is a ton of variety out there right now and while many of the titles out there are rehashing titles that are decades old at this point there are still so many variations of game models within non-MMO games that it's not a big deal.
yeah but I am trying to communicate a concept to people who think its literally impossible to conceptualize what happens in a multiplayer game to an MMO (so I cant use those games as an example) as well as a community that absolutely refuses under any conditions to acknowledge what I am talking about exists and is very different then the world they are used to and instead hyper inspect what I said in attempts to avoid the obvious. Because they want to live in a world of victim nostaglia and literally go to great lengths and go out of their way to NOT look at the exciting things that are happening in the industry. They dont want games of the past, they think they do but they dont, what they really want is to be the victim.
So that would be my fault
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Comments
Although, you could have a "Leave it to Beaver" setting to play with and you could call it Nightmare Mode!
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
Dual
Universe
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
That's what you have to find, the balance point between fondly remembering the past while not overlooking the bad parts too.
You can say these kind of players are very few, and then I can say they are more than that. But you can't really put any numbers on this because there are no modern mmorpgs with these qualities to measure on. I claim that this kind of mmorpg player is not a type of the past but instead a steady percentage of the total player base, and therefore contain players of all ages.
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
The problem with nostalgia is when you willfully ignore flaws that annoyed us with those old games and believe that we will accept those flaws in a new release. We had an emotional connection to those old games that we simply won't have with a modern release.
I know what kind of old game I want to play and I also know the kind of improvements that has to be done for me to play that type of game again.
Let's not forget strategy games, Warcraft 3 came out the same year, along with C&C Renegade.
Alchemy as a craft was present in Elder scrolls III Morrowind though you could not craft your own armor.(at least unitl modders came along.)
Rollercoaster Tycoon 2 launched in 2002 along with Zoo Tycoon: Dinosaur Digs.
Of course multiple MMOs were offering crafting and building throughout this era and likely their pinnacle in terms of crafting came in 2003 with SWGs launch.
What you see as new ideas in 2017 are largely refinements of ideas that existed 15 years ago.
Of course technology has improved what can be offered, but little of it is really new.
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VERY few games allowed a character to craft. VERY FEW now they are all over the place and with deeper crafting then even those few.
Most of the games you are listing are not even in the same genre I am talking about. I am talking about what The Forest has brought to the table, not fucking rollercoaster tycoon.
please struggle to understand how games like Subnautica, Dual Universe, The Forest, 7 days to die are actually not just a bunch of slight changes on a theme without me having to explain it because its getting exhausting on what should be painfully obvious
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거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I played the computer interpretation of D&D and for me I felt like it was a bunch of horseshit. I didnt like Kings Quest (much later of course) and I felt like the computer gaming industry was starting to miss the point of games.
But I do understand (and knew) people who liked them, but its ridicously over rated
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however, when responding to someone who clearly feels very passionate about something specific he is very clear on its kind nice to have a reply related to that specific subject
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거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다
I also like newer stuff but its easy to sell me on a style I already enjoy compared to selling me something I have no idea whether I like or not. Once I'm sold on something new I want more of it. However, you can't give me more of it without making a slight improvement on things.
But I want to use D&D as an example of what I am talking about. So in an RPG you have attributes, classes and levels. fair enough.
Then came along skills instead of classes
ok fair enough
What D&D never really touched on (at least I am aware of is)
Farming.
ok now you can farm,
oh and now you can cook
oh and now you can mine for ore,
smelt the ore
make a sword
make a better sword
All those things didnt really exist in table top D&D. Ok fair enough but they did exist in many games of the past right?....like farming?..... ok well wait a second.
There you are with your farm and your mine and your cool sword, what if you could build your own house? to your own specs? How about a boat? how about a HUGE boat? how about trading with your neighboors? How about making your propertly larger?
how about raising some horses? how about breeding horses so they become better after each generation?
how about physic? structureal intgrity?
how about being able to build anywhere or destroy anything?
how about being able to leave a planet and land on another to do the same?
table top D&D didnt come even remotely close to these things, nor did games of the past.
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Cool, yeah, I think I can agree with you on this response.
On a positive note, I don't think that this group is being ignored anymore. We've got a number of titles in the pipe which are being designed specifically with them in mind. Pantheon is one. CU is another. CF is yet another. AO is another, as is LoA. All these are approaching testing stages. Pantheon will be out this year, because it was voted most anticipated title of 2017 last year, so you know it's definitely coming out
These are all titles aimed at this nostalgia factor. Should they fail miserably then I think that it will effectively close the books on anything "old-schoolish". So I'd encourage anyone who DOES want to see more of these types of games to actually play and support them because, make no mistake, this is the time to shine.
Crazkanuk
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Never the less LIF DOES have an official card carry approved by the industry officallly called MMO.
but maybe I can work with Dual Universe. A game like Dual Universe isnt a slight alteration on a theme from 10 years ago. Very literally a game like Dual Universe is what I am talking about here. I ask again...please do me a favor and try to understand where I am coming from, you dont have to agree but please try to understand the intent of what I am saying
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Nevertheless I stand by the thought that we shoud out loud what we might want, but in the end when we do get it, don't really like it, for whatever reason.
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and point 2, yes people at least on gaming forums are ridiculously nostalgic to the point of being unhealthy.
that is my summation
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Never the less, what you say in this paragraph to me sounds like nostalgia. be it for good reason or not, rational or not, it is nostalgia.
for the records
so at least for me as someone who has gamed in ever era there has been I perfer this era, i think its the best.
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When was the last time you played a single player game that didnt allow you to save when you wanted to and multiple file names?
I have I think about 3 games in which you cant do that and its that way by design. so if you screw up your base, your file is screwed.
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Yes there are some very interesting looking games on the horizon that may or may not pan out. But as to MMOs currently on the market they are more stale and uninteresting right now then I think they have been at any point before.
This is largely because some of them are very old and designs that were originally interesting no longer are, but I would say we are at rock bottom atm in terms of what is currently available on the MMO market.
There is a light at the end of the tunnel, but we're still in the tunnel.
As far as non-MMO I do agree that the market isn't too bad at all. There is a ton of variety out there right now and while many of the titles out there are rehashing titles that are decades old at this point there are still so many variations of game models within non-MMO games that it's not a big deal.
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They dont want games of the past, they think they do but they dont, what they really want is to be the victim.
So that would be my fault
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