Really quiet here, is this game stalled?

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  • cameltosiscameltosis ipswichMember EpicPosts: 1,742
    Dvora said:
    bentrim said:
    Its not stalled, just ANOTHER PVP game with a VERY limited audience. Keep making games for that 8% demographic you are targeting devs. Smart...since ALL of the same types of these games are doing SOOOO well.
    Soooo many things wrong in just 3 sentences!

    1) It's not just "another pvp" game. CU is doing things extremely differently to other PvP-focused MMORPGs. The only similarity is the fact that PvP is it's focus. 

    2) 8% - where did you get that figure from? Most games I've seen that release stats on player participation in pvp show 10-20% regular participation. But, that's 10-20% participation in games that are poorly designed for PvP. Additionally, literally every single game I've seen that releases these stats show that PvP has a higher participation rate than endgame raiding. 

    3) PvP is huge! PvP is the most popular online activity for gamers across all genres, it is only MMORPGs which suck at delivering a good PvP experience. This means there is a massive opportunity for a developer to do MMORPG PvP "right". Given how different CU is to other MMORPG PvP, it is possible that CU maybe the first to get it right. 

    4) You cannot compare CU to any MMO currently on the market, because it's whole ethos and design is vastly different to anything currently available. 
    I have to at least partially agree with the OP.  Making the game pretty much exclusively pvp is IMO a big mistake.  There are many more pve players who also like good pvp in their games than there are pvp players that want a pvp only mmo.  Honestly if I want straight up pvp and nothing else I'd just go play a shooter or moba.  

    A good MMO, which isnt something thats been seen in ages now, has both, needs both to really be a virtual world.  We've had games that have both but none that have done both well at the same time imo.  

    I am a big PVP fan, but like PVE also.  PVE with PVP spice.  I don't even mind full loot pvp if it is done right.  I think though that people that can handle full loot pvp are few and far between.  IMO a good comprimise would be a good PVE&PVP game with PVP systems like Shadowbane had... Inventory loot only, not equipped gear.  IMO shadowbane could have been one of the most popular games ever (still was for me) if it actually had a decent world, decent graphics, and fewer bugs.  It's too bad the folks at crowfall, some of which came from shadowbane I think, cheaped out with what they have in crowfall.  

    As bad as Shadowbanes graphics, and bugs etc were, the world and politics had a life of their own.  Crowfall just seems stale and one dimensional, and IMO CU is headed that way also without more to do than just straight pvp.  Bit of a meandering off topic post I guess but yeah...

    Whilst I too enjoy both PvE and PvP and I agree that an awesome MMO would have both (this does have both, it's just PvE is limited to one area, The Depths), ultimately this is an indie game with a small budget so it's not possible. 


    But, if you look at the online games market as a whole, and not just MMOs, you can see just how popular pure PvP is. Between shooters and mobas, the market for PvP games is absolutely massive. For a whole variety of reasons, PvP has just never taken off properly within the MMORPG genre. It maybe that there is simply something fundamental that prevents RPG and PvP from coexisting, but I personally think it is just down to the implementation. 

    Mark and CSE are taking that gamble - that by drastically changing the mechanics of their MMORPG, they can finally make PvP an exciting and enjoyable activity for us. From longer time to kill, horizontal progression (no power gaps), unique classes, skill being more important than gear, to all the destructible buildings and sieges, Mark is setting up this game to (hopefully) revolutionise MMORPG PvP. 



    That said, I do concede your point about the potential to become one dimensional. With crafting being done by dedicated classes, for combat players your choice when logging in is to PvP, gather basic materials, or head to The Depths.....assuming your side has access. 

    Now, granted, there will be plenty of options for PvP - do you do organised raiding and attempt some territory control? Do you defend one of your zones? Do you small group roam? Do you solo? My suspicion is that with the focus on skill over gear, combined with the diverse range of classes, you are going to be most effective when playing in a balanced group and that outside of groups, you're probably gonna get your ass kicked. WAR was very much like this at launch - if you couldn't get into a premade for scenarios, or a raid for world pvp, your experience was crap. I do wonder what the game will offer for solo players, or what you'll be able to do if you happen to play outside of peak hours. I'm sure MJ and CSE have already considered these questions, but the answers will likely come out during beta testing when we better understand the gameplay and balance.
    YashaXJamesGoblinGdemami
  • YashaXYashaX Baldurs GateMember RarePosts: 2,003
    edited August 25
    Dvora said:
    bentrim said:
    Its not stalled, just ANOTHER PVP game with a VERY limited audience. Keep making games for that 8% demographic you are targeting devs. Smart...since ALL of the same types of these games are doing SOOOO well.
    Soooo many things wrong in just 3 sentences!

    1) It's not just "another pvp" game. CU is doing things extremely differently to other PvP-focused MMORPGs. The only similarity is the fact that PvP is it's focus. 

    2) 8% - where did you get that figure from? Most games I've seen that release stats on player participation in pvp show 10-20% regular participation. But, that's 10-20% participation in games that are poorly designed for PvP. Additionally, literally every single game I've seen that releases these stats show that PvP has a higher participation rate than endgame raiding. 

    3) PvP is huge! PvP is the most popular online activity for gamers across all genres, it is only MMORPGs which suck at delivering a good PvP experience. This means there is a massive opportunity for a developer to do MMORPG PvP "right". Given how different CU is to other MMORPG PvP, it is possible that CU maybe the first to get it right. 

    4) You cannot compare CU to any MMO currently on the market, because it's whole ethos and design is vastly different to anything currently available. 
    I have to at least partially agree with the OP.  Making the game pretty much exclusively pvp is IMO a big mistake.  There are many more pve players who also like good pvp in their games than there are pvp players that want a pvp only mmo.  Honestly if I want straight up pvp and nothing else I'd just go play a shooter or moba.  

    A good MMO, which isnt something thats been seen in ages now, has both, needs both to really be a virtual world.  We've had games that have both but none that have done both well at the same time imo.  

    I am a big PVP fan, but like PVE also.  PVE with PVP spice.  I don't even mind full loot pvp if it is done right.  I think though that people that can handle full loot pvp are few and far between.  IMO a good comprimise would be a good PVE&PVP game with PVP systems like Shadowbane had... Inventory loot only, not equipped gear.  IMO shadowbane could have been one of the most popular games ever (still was for me) if it actually had a decent world, decent graphics, and fewer bugs.  It's too bad the folks at crowfall, some of which came from shadowbane I think, cheaped out with what they have in crowfall.  

    As bad as Shadowbanes graphics, and bugs etc were, the world and politics had a life of their own.  Crowfall just seems stale and one dimensional, and IMO CU is headed that way also without more to do than just straight pvp.  Bit of a meandering off topic post I guess but yeah...

    Whilst I too enjoy both PvE and PvP and I agree that an awesome MMO would have both (this does have both, it's just PvE is limited to one area, The Depths), ultimately this is an indie game with a small budget so it's not possible. 


    But, if you look at the online games market as a whole, and not just MMOs, you can see just how popular pure PvP is. Between shooters and mobas, the market for PvP games is absolutely massive. For a whole variety of reasons, PvP has just never taken off properly within the MMORPG genre. It maybe that there is simply something fundamental that prevents RPG and PvP from coexisting, but I personally think it is just down to the implementation. 

    Mark and CSE are taking that gamble - that by drastically changing the mechanics of their MMORPG, they can finally make PvP an exciting and enjoyable activity for us. From longer time to kill, horizontal progression (no power gaps), unique classes, skill being more important than gear, to all the destructible buildings and sieges, Mark is setting up this game to (hopefully) revolutionise MMORPG PvP. 



    That said, I do concede your point about the potential to become one dimensional. With crafting being done by dedicated classes, for combat players your choice when logging in is to PvP, gather basic materials, or head to The Depths.....assuming your side has access. 

    Now, granted, there will be plenty of options for PvP - do you do organised raiding and attempt some territory control? Do you defend one of your zones? Do you small group roam? Do you solo? My suspicion is that with the focus on skill over gear, combined with the diverse range of classes, you are going to be most effective when playing in a balanced group and that outside of groups, you're probably gonna get your ass kicked. WAR was very much like this at launch - if you couldn't get into a premade for scenarios, or a raid for world pvp, your experience was crap. I do wonder what the game will offer for solo players, or what you'll be able to do if you happen to play outside of peak hours. I'm sure MJ and CSE have already considered these questions, but the answers will likely come out during beta testing when we better understand the gameplay and balance.
    Its a good point, the single player experience is not stellar in RvR games because they are inherently suited to playing in groups. I don't really see this as a downside though, it just means that making grouping easy /accessible will be key. 
    Post edited by YashaX on
    JamesGoblinGdemami
    ....
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member RarePosts: 1,811
    I misspoke when I said CU is my last hope for games I've pledged to.  CU is my last PvP MMO hope.  I'm still holding out some hope for Legends of Aria for a good PvE sandbox MMO.
    JamesGoblin
  • ScoliozScolioz Member UncommonPosts: 60
    edited September 9
    games junk
    Post edited by Scolioz on
  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALMember UncommonPosts: 1,315
    This game was supposed to be out in 2015/2016. The kickstarter was in 2013. They said Alpha would start in 2014. Put me in the camp that says this game isn't seeing the light of day. You don't miss goals by years. 

    If it comes out - I will try it. My hopes that it ever will come out, and it won't be another horrendous flop are non-existent.


    Source:
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained
    JamesGoblinlitewolfNightblazedjimmywolf
  • litewolflitewolf las vegas, NVMember UncommonPosts: 18
    edited October 7
    I loved DAOC and it will forever be my favorite mmo experience. With that said, Ive been waiting for this game for a lonnnnnng time now. Years of delays start to get ridiculous. Even with Mark coming on and talking about whats caused said delays, it helps but even it gets stale and there needs to be a level of tangible and obvious advancement. I'm not seeing it at an acceptable level and have begun to have doubts about its release viability. 

    Good luck to a 2018 Beta and 2019 launch. 
    Post edited by litewolf on
  • cheyanecheyane EarthMember EpicPosts: 4,907
    The progress is probably very slow I liked DAoC and wish them the very best and I would really like this game to come out although since it is full PvP I won't play it.
    image
  • OnodrimOnodrim Mesa, AZMember UncommonPosts: 31
    Maybe they aren't trying to get rich off this. Maybe they just want to make an awesome game and are ok with making a little salary and otherwise breaking even?

    Im happy to see something that's not just another corporate pve money making project
    JamesGoblin
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member RarePosts: 1,811
    Onodrim said:
    Maybe they aren't trying to get rich off this. Maybe they just want to make an awesome game and are ok with making a little salary and otherwise breaking even?

    Im happy to see something that's not just another corporate pve money making project

    LOL, no.  They have mouths to feed.  They want to make as much money as possible.  Nothing wrong with that, just so they don't go to far and put in lootboxes and other P2W crap.
    JamesGoblin
  • dreamer05dreamer05 Kansas City, MOMember UncommonPosts: 659
    I'd rather see them spend plenty of time developing a ready and complete game. I agree that the delays are concerning, but I think once it gets closer to beta and release, the hype will pick up majorly.
    JamesGoblin

    image

    "God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."

  • shenfreyshenfrey LeicesterMember UncommonPosts: 111
    Let them take as long as they want, theres plenty of other games that are out now or coming out in the coming months and forever more that are fighting for our attention. 
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,838
    shenfrey said:
    Let them take as long as they want, theres plenty of other games that are out now or coming out in the coming months and forever more that are fighting for our attention. 
    Actually the MMO market is pretty Spartan right now and through much of 2018.

    ConstantineMerusJamesGoblinYashaX

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,435
    Kyleran said:
    shenfrey said:
    Let them take as long as they want, theres plenty of other games that are out now or coming out in the coming months and forever more that are fighting for our attention. 
    Actually the MMO market is pretty Spartan right now and through much of 2018.

    in fact, I would not expect to not see that change for at least 3 more years. 
    The industry right now is still absorbing where the consumer community  is going to go now with this now huge explosion of games on the PC covering many ideas that previously where never touched.

    maybe a better way to say it is...the industry wants to see what people are going with all these subnautica, ark, 7 days to die, space engineers type games before making a mega investment in a specific direction.

    Kyleran

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • GynthaziGynthazi Coronado, CAMember UncommonPosts: 41
    The game has far from stalled. They give weekly updates, stream almost daily, and are implementing new features constantly. It was a tough decision for MJ to make the decision that things were going the way he wanted on some of the core functionality of the code, but instead of brushing it off and moving on, they  scrapped their entire ability system and other items his engineers were working on and started over. They let one of their lead programmers go, and hired a slew of other programmers. He's invested a ton of his own money as well to make sure this happens.

    Have no fear, Mark Jacobs is the real deal, and this game will happen. Will it live up to everything people are hoping for? i'm not sure, but I know Mark has passion, experience, and a true drive to want to make this great.

    Take a few hours (or days) to look through the site, all the detail they are putting into this game.. his weekly blasts are crazy detailed.. there's nothing to be scared about here. I'm glad he made the decision to scrap the garbage and do it right even if it put them a year+ behind. The end result will make it all worth it.

    Lot of younger people here that may not know MJ or even DAoC for that matter, but know if anyone can make this game amazing, its him.

    I'm a beta1 player like a lot, and i've been waiting a long time. I have high expectations so lets see if he delivers.
    JamesGoblin

    >>> Gynthazi <<<
    "Every man is a divinity in disguise, a God playing the fool." -- Ralph Waldo Emerson

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,435
    what if the game has staled?

    what would then ones next step be exactly?

    just something to ponder

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,525
    SEANMCAD said:
    what if the game has staled?

    what would then ones next step be exactly?

    just something to ponder
    Well.. as it's Camelot Unchained.. you either decide to stay longer and wait or you simply ask for a refund which they honor.  That's the main reason they get a pass on the delays.  Unlike other "companies" they actually allow you to refund your money if you change your mind. 

    So yeah they get beat up for the delays (rightfully so) but their refund policy is the differentiator. Try and get CoE to give money back after they announce a 2 year delay...

     
    JamesGoblin

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,525
    edited November 10
    SEANMCAD said:
    what if the game has staled?

    what would then ones next step be exactly?

    just something to ponder
    You could also play Return of Reckoning to get a taste of what may be coming our way :)

    It's actually a lot more fun than I remember.

    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    JamesGoblin

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,435
    edited November 10
    SEANMCAD said:
    what if the game has staled?

    what would then ones next step be exactly?

    just something to ponder
    You could also play Return of Reckoning to get a taste of what may be coming out way :)

    It's actually a lot more fun than I remember.

    True..

    I just find it intresting how some people ask questions (not you) where they really dont want an answer and dont have a course of action if its one way or the other.

    but yeah....play a different game I guess is a good answer....kinda obvious but good. In fact, stalled or not stalled the answer is the same. play something else.
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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