Really quiet here, is this game stalled?

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Comments

  • cameltosiscameltosis ipswichMember EpicPosts: 1,557
    Dvora said:
    bentrim said:
    Its not stalled, just ANOTHER PVP game with a VERY limited audience. Keep making games for that 8% demographic you are targeting devs. Smart...since ALL of the same types of these games are doing SOOOO well.
    Soooo many things wrong in just 3 sentences!

    1) It's not just "another pvp" game. CU is doing things extremely differently to other PvP-focused MMORPGs. The only similarity is the fact that PvP is it's focus. 

    2) 8% - where did you get that figure from? Most games I've seen that release stats on player participation in pvp show 10-20% regular participation. But, that's 10-20% participation in games that are poorly designed for PvP. Additionally, literally every single game I've seen that releases these stats show that PvP has a higher participation rate than endgame raiding. 

    3) PvP is huge! PvP is the most popular online activity for gamers across all genres, it is only MMORPGs which suck at delivering a good PvP experience. This means there is a massive opportunity for a developer to do MMORPG PvP "right". Given how different CU is to other MMORPG PvP, it is possible that CU maybe the first to get it right. 

    4) You cannot compare CU to any MMO currently on the market, because it's whole ethos and design is vastly different to anything currently available. 
    I have to at least partially agree with the OP.  Making the game pretty much exclusively pvp is IMO a big mistake.  There are many more pve players who also like good pvp in their games than there are pvp players that want a pvp only mmo.  Honestly if I want straight up pvp and nothing else I'd just go play a shooter or moba.  

    A good MMO, which isnt something thats been seen in ages now, has both, needs both to really be a virtual world.  We've had games that have both but none that have done both well at the same time imo.  

    I am a big PVP fan, but like PVE also.  PVE with PVP spice.  I don't even mind full loot pvp if it is done right.  I think though that people that can handle full loot pvp are few and far between.  IMO a good comprimise would be a good PVE&PVP game with PVP systems like Shadowbane had... Inventory loot only, not equipped gear.  IMO shadowbane could have been one of the most popular games ever (still was for me) if it actually had a decent world, decent graphics, and fewer bugs.  It's too bad the folks at crowfall, some of which came from shadowbane I think, cheaped out with what they have in crowfall.  

    As bad as Shadowbanes graphics, and bugs etc were, the world and politics had a life of their own.  Crowfall just seems stale and one dimensional, and IMO CU is headed that way also without more to do than just straight pvp.  Bit of a meandering off topic post I guess but yeah...

    Whilst I too enjoy both PvE and PvP and I agree that an awesome MMO would have both (this does have both, it's just PvE is limited to one area, The Depths), ultimately this is an indie game with a small budget so it's not possible. 


    But, if you look at the online games market as a whole, and not just MMOs, you can see just how popular pure PvP is. Between shooters and mobas, the market for PvP games is absolutely massive. For a whole variety of reasons, PvP has just never taken off properly within the MMORPG genre. It maybe that there is simply something fundamental that prevents RPG and PvP from coexisting, but I personally think it is just down to the implementation. 

    Mark and CSE are taking that gamble - that by drastically changing the mechanics of their MMORPG, they can finally make PvP an exciting and enjoyable activity for us. From longer time to kill, horizontal progression (no power gaps), unique classes, skill being more important than gear, to all the destructible buildings and sieges, Mark is setting up this game to (hopefully) revolutionise MMORPG PvP. 



    That said, I do concede your point about the potential to become one dimensional. With crafting being done by dedicated classes, for combat players your choice when logging in is to PvP, gather basic materials, or head to The Depths.....assuming your side has access. 

    Now, granted, there will be plenty of options for PvP - do you do organised raiding and attempt some territory control? Do you defend one of your zones? Do you small group roam? Do you solo? My suspicion is that with the focus on skill over gear, combined with the diverse range of classes, you are going to be most effective when playing in a balanced group and that outside of groups, you're probably gonna get your ass kicked. WAR was very much like this at launch - if you couldn't get into a premade for scenarios, or a raid for world pvp, your experience was crap. I do wonder what the game will offer for solo players, or what you'll be able to do if you happen to play outside of peak hours. I'm sure MJ and CSE have already considered these questions, but the answers will likely come out during beta testing when we better understand the gameplay and balance.
    YashaXJamesGoblinGdemami
  • YashaXYashaX Baldurs GateMember RarePosts: 1,941
    edited August 25
    Dvora said:
    bentrim said:
    Its not stalled, just ANOTHER PVP game with a VERY limited audience. Keep making games for that 8% demographic you are targeting devs. Smart...since ALL of the same types of these games are doing SOOOO well.
    Soooo many things wrong in just 3 sentences!

    1) It's not just "another pvp" game. CU is doing things extremely differently to other PvP-focused MMORPGs. The only similarity is the fact that PvP is it's focus. 

    2) 8% - where did you get that figure from? Most games I've seen that release stats on player participation in pvp show 10-20% regular participation. But, that's 10-20% participation in games that are poorly designed for PvP. Additionally, literally every single game I've seen that releases these stats show that PvP has a higher participation rate than endgame raiding. 

    3) PvP is huge! PvP is the most popular online activity for gamers across all genres, it is only MMORPGs which suck at delivering a good PvP experience. This means there is a massive opportunity for a developer to do MMORPG PvP "right". Given how different CU is to other MMORPG PvP, it is possible that CU maybe the first to get it right. 

    4) You cannot compare CU to any MMO currently on the market, because it's whole ethos and design is vastly different to anything currently available. 
    I have to at least partially agree with the OP.  Making the game pretty much exclusively pvp is IMO a big mistake.  There are many more pve players who also like good pvp in their games than there are pvp players that want a pvp only mmo.  Honestly if I want straight up pvp and nothing else I'd just go play a shooter or moba.  

    A good MMO, which isnt something thats been seen in ages now, has both, needs both to really be a virtual world.  We've had games that have both but none that have done both well at the same time imo.  

    I am a big PVP fan, but like PVE also.  PVE with PVP spice.  I don't even mind full loot pvp if it is done right.  I think though that people that can handle full loot pvp are few and far between.  IMO a good comprimise would be a good PVE&PVP game with PVP systems like Shadowbane had... Inventory loot only, not equipped gear.  IMO shadowbane could have been one of the most popular games ever (still was for me) if it actually had a decent world, decent graphics, and fewer bugs.  It's too bad the folks at crowfall, some of which came from shadowbane I think, cheaped out with what they have in crowfall.  

    As bad as Shadowbanes graphics, and bugs etc were, the world and politics had a life of their own.  Crowfall just seems stale and one dimensional, and IMO CU is headed that way also without more to do than just straight pvp.  Bit of a meandering off topic post I guess but yeah...

    Whilst I too enjoy both PvE and PvP and I agree that an awesome MMO would have both (this does have both, it's just PvE is limited to one area, The Depths), ultimately this is an indie game with a small budget so it's not possible. 


    But, if you look at the online games market as a whole, and not just MMOs, you can see just how popular pure PvP is. Between shooters and mobas, the market for PvP games is absolutely massive. For a whole variety of reasons, PvP has just never taken off properly within the MMORPG genre. It maybe that there is simply something fundamental that prevents RPG and PvP from coexisting, but I personally think it is just down to the implementation. 

    Mark and CSE are taking that gamble - that by drastically changing the mechanics of their MMORPG, they can finally make PvP an exciting and enjoyable activity for us. From longer time to kill, horizontal progression (no power gaps), unique classes, skill being more important than gear, to all the destructible buildings and sieges, Mark is setting up this game to (hopefully) revolutionise MMORPG PvP. 



    That said, I do concede your point about the potential to become one dimensional. With crafting being done by dedicated classes, for combat players your choice when logging in is to PvP, gather basic materials, or head to The Depths.....assuming your side has access. 

    Now, granted, there will be plenty of options for PvP - do you do organised raiding and attempt some territory control? Do you defend one of your zones? Do you small group roam? Do you solo? My suspicion is that with the focus on skill over gear, combined with the diverse range of classes, you are going to be most effective when playing in a balanced group and that outside of groups, you're probably gonna get your ass kicked. WAR was very much like this at launch - if you couldn't get into a premade for scenarios, or a raid for world pvp, your experience was crap. I do wonder what the game will offer for solo players, or what you'll be able to do if you happen to play outside of peak hours. I'm sure MJ and CSE have already considered these questions, but the answers will likely come out during beta testing when we better understand the gameplay and balance.
    Its a good point, the single player experience is not stellar in RvR games because they are inherently suited to playing in groups. I don't really see this as a downside though, it just means that making grouping easy /accessible will be key. 
    Post edited by YashaX on
    JamesGoblinGdemami
    ....
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member RarePosts: 1,707
    I misspoke when I said CU is my last hope for games I've pledged to.  CU is my last PvP MMO hope.  I'm still holding out some hope for Legends of Aria for a good PvE sandbox MMO.
    JamesGoblin
  • ScoliozScolioz Member UncommonPosts: 33
    edited September 9
    games junk
    Post edited by Scolioz on
  • GolelornGolelorn Hiding From Social Media Peeping Toms, ALMember UncommonPosts: 1,289
    This game was supposed to be out in 2015/2016. The kickstarter was in 2013. They said Alpha would start in 2014. Put me in the camp that says this game isn't seeing the light of day. You don't miss goals by years. 

    If it comes out - I will try it. My hopes that it ever will come out, and it won't be another horrendous flop are non-existent.


    Source:
    https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/13861848/camelot-unchained
    JamesGoblinlitewolfNightblazed
  • litewolflitewolf las vegas, NVMember UncommonPosts: 18
    edited October 7
    I loved DAOC and it will forever be my favorite mmo experience. With that said, Ive been waiting for this game for a lonnnnnng time now. Years of delays start to get ridiculous. Even with Mark coming on and talking about whats caused said delays, it helps but even it gets stale and there needs to be a level of tangible and obvious advancement. I'm not seeing it at an acceptable level and have begun to have doubts about its release viability. 

    Good luck to a 2018 Beta and 2019 launch. 
    Post edited by litewolf on
  • cheyanecheyane EarthMember EpicPosts: 4,785
    The progress is probably very slow I liked DAoC and wish them the very best and I would really like this game to come out although since it is full PvP I won't play it.
    image
  • OnodrimOnodrim Mesa, AZMember UncommonPosts: 28
    Maybe they aren't trying to get rich off this. Maybe they just want to make an awesome game and are ok with making a little salary and otherwise breaking even?

    Im happy to see something that's not just another corporate pve money making project
    JamesGoblin
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member RarePosts: 1,707
    Onodrim said:
    Maybe they aren't trying to get rich off this. Maybe they just want to make an awesome game and are ok with making a little salary and otherwise breaking even?

    Im happy to see something that's not just another corporate pve money making project

    LOL, no.  They have mouths to feed.  They want to make as much money as possible.  Nothing wrong with that, just so they don't go to far and put in lootboxes and other P2W crap.
    JamesGoblin
  • dreamer05dreamer05 Kansas City, MOMember UncommonPosts: 656
    I'd rather see them spend plenty of time developing a ready and complete game. I agree that the delays are concerning, but I think once it gets closer to beta and release, the hype will pick up majorly.
    JamesGoblin

    image

    "God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."

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