MMORPG Playerbase Numbers Anyone Know?

jimmytrouser

Simple question that I can't seem to find an answer to online:

Which are the most popular mmorpgs and how many players are there in each, anyone know?

Please post a link to the website as I am really interested in finding this out.

Luiden

Does it matter?  They all pretty much suck these days. 

jimmytrouser

Well, this is a MMORPG forum after all and I thought it was the best place to ask.  I think if you think MMORPGs suck then perhaps they are not the genre for you.

I don't wish this to be a post about sucking or not thanks for the post.

But please keep on topic.

jimmytrouser

Luiden said:

Does it matter?  They all pretty much suck these days. 

Perhaps this is of interest to you http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/460914/why-mmos-suck#latest

Albatroes

You're honestly never going to know the real answer to this question because in F2P/B2P, they usually state numbers based on registered accounts which can be free to create and sub games dont really mention it anymore because it can impact recurring sub numbers if they are actually honest. Its just like how FFXIV magically creates this number of 6 million "adventurers" without regard in the fact that in JP/NA/EU its p2p but its F2P in KR. So it can result in "real" numbers based on the accounts created in a global market.

Kevyne-Shandris

Robokapp said:

wow's around 10mil.

May have bought the game worldwide at the beginning, but not playing the game now.

OP: This may answer your question about WoW (US and Oceanic realms)...

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/status

Luiden

Vardahoth said:

Hell, if you look at this sites mmorpg game list, you will see most the games aren't even really rpg's or mmo's.

This is what I mean by they suck, the industry is so bad right now that dedicated sites like this list other types of games just to have something to talk about.  I've been playing MMORPGs since the early 2000's and this age that we are in is by far the worst. 

Kyleran

Short of purchasing a SuperData report (who claim to have deep industry insight) you aren't likely to come up with reasonable figures for most any game.

Even in this thread there's a high level of delusion with the numbers being given.

cameltosis

The information you are after isn't publicly available. 

There are sometimes ways to try to estimate player numbers, like using WoWProgress.com and actually logging in to servers and counting, but they're likely to be wrong. I tried to estimate the global MMORPG market size some years back and got to approximately 50 million players worldwide. This was sticking to actual MMORPGs and ignoring virtually all the browser based stuff. However, I fully expect my figure to be wrong. 

Kevyne-Shandris

Robokapp said:

Kevyne-Shandris said:

Robokapp said:

wow's around 10mil.

May have bought the game worldwide at the beginning, but not playing the game now.

OP: This may answer your question about WoW (US and Oceanic realms)...

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/status

here's actual numbers.
https://www.wowprogress.com/realms/rank/us

That's just level 110 characters that checks the site.

Besides Blizzard wouldn't have severely skew A/H ratio realms with 30k of one faction and 600 of the other!

None of the realm population sites are even close to being accurate. Warcraftrealms used to be the most accurate as that census app pulls /who data and counts any player, not just 110.

gervaise1

First question: what do you mean by an mmorpg? Is - Destiny for example - an mmo in your opinion?


Second data is very limited.

The last number Blizzard gave out for WoW - pre-Legion- for example, was 5.5M some time back. They followed with WoW earnings suggesting the number had dropped to c. 4.6M and then Blizzard earnings the following quarter suggested 3.9M on a pro-rata basis. They played up the performance of some other titles though so - maybe - less. Bottom line we don't know.


WoW is a subscription game though. Something like ESO - if you consider that an mmorpg - had, according to the last number Zenimax gave out, 7M sales. That was a while ago now though and pre-Morrowind. It was sales though not players.

So another question. How do you measure engagement? Only those who subscribe? Play once a week? Once a month - which a lot of companies now use so called "MAUs". Maybe every quarter?

Superdata was mentioned but their projections on e.g. VR have been well off and the likes of e.g. Activision don't use them (they bought Omnidata) and I pretty sure I read that EA have their own as well. 

So what do you consider an mmorpg (Minecraft?), how much time must a person spend in game before being counted and no real data. 

Tough question!

Mensur

Luiden said:

Does it matter?  They all pretty much suck these days. 

True! 

jimmytrouser

Some interesting responses here guys, thanks.

The main reason I asked this question was due to watching and reading about Ashes of Creations (which seems too good to be true, but that's a little off-topic).  In the video, the developers said they would never go F2P or P2W as this has ruined the industry and is not successful.

Well, as a VIP member of LOTRO which has been active now for 10 years, I disagree as their (LOTROs) model seems to be working.  But I wanted to see the player base numbers to see how successful it actually is.

I think WOW is popular because people can pick it up and play for a short time and 'achieve' something.  What worries me is games like Ashes of Creation as there is so much 'content' envisioned that no one will have time to play and thus, maybe a LOTRO style F2P will work.

Very interesting that so many things are now defined as MMORPGs even though in the past they would not have been.


I certainly does seem games are more casual nowadays than they used to be.  One would think with all the tech advances it would be the other way around.  

Thanks guys.  Please feel free to give your opinion.

cameltosis

jimmytrouser said:

Some interesting responses here guys, thanks.

The main reason I asked this question was due to watching and reading about Ashes of Creations (which seems too good to be true, but that's a little off-topic).  In the video, the developers said they would never go F2P or P2W as this has ruined the industry and is not successful.

Well, as a VIP member of LOTRO which has been active now for 10 years, I disagree as their (LOTROs) model seems to be working.  But I wanted to see the player base numbers to see how successful it actually is.

From the few games I played that converted to F2P (LotRO and SW:TOR), F2P tended to provide a short term boost to player numbers but that boost was unsustainable. Only the increased income seemed to be sustained. 

So, SW:TOR, for example, dropped below 500k subscribers somewhere between 3 and 6 months after launch. EA had said that 500k was their break even point, so the game was on course for a financial failure and closure. Post-conversion, we were told subscribers had gone above 500k again, plus they were generating a lot more money from everyone else too. 

However, without fail, they all seem to quickly stop reporting player numbers, or change the stat they're reporting. My impression is that player numbers don't really go up much due to F2P, they just stabilise the dropoff whilst providing increased income. 


My question when it comes to F2P / P2P is what would happen if the quality of the game was higher? Is the need for a F2P conversion due to low quality of the game (and thus players cant justify the sub), or is player dropoff simply inevitable, regardless of what you do? I also wonder if the industry would be better off killing off more MMOs earlier, rather than leaving them on life support for years on end? For example, if SW:TOR had shut down after 1 year due to poor performance, might we have a good SW MMORPG by now?

jimmytrouser

cameltosis said:

jimmytrouser said:

Some interesting responses here guys, thanks.

The main reason I asked this question was due to watching and reading about Ashes of Creations (which seems too good to be true, but that's a little off-topic).  In the video, the developers said they would never go F2P or P2W as this has ruined the industry and is not successful.

Well, as a VIP member of LOTRO which has been active now for 10 years, I disagree as their (LOTROs) model seems to be working.  But I wanted to see the player base numbers to see how successful it actually is.

From the few games I played that converted to F2P (LotRO and SW:TOR), F2P tended to provide a short term boost to player numbers but that boost was unsustainable. Only the increased income seemed to be sustained. 

So, SW:TOR, for example, dropped below 500k subscribers somewhere between 3 and 6 months after launch. EA had said that 500k was their break even point, so the game was on course for a financial failure and closure. Post-conversion, we were told subscribers had gone above 500k again, plus they were generating a lot more money from everyone else too. 

However, without fail, they all seem to quickly stop reporting player numbers, or change the stat they're reporting. My impression is that player numbers don't really go up much due to F2P, they just stabilise the dropoff whilst providing increased income. 


My question when it comes to F2P / P2P is what would happen if the quality of the game was higher? Is the need for a F2P conversion due to low quality of the game (and thus players cant justify the sub), or is player dropoff simply inevitable, regardless of what you do? I also wonder if the industry would be better off killing off more MMOs earlier, rather than leaving them on life support for years on end? For example, if SW:TOR had shut down after 1 year due to poor performance, might we have a good SW MMORPG by now?

I think you're on to something.  I see far too many MMORPGs now that all look the same and it will get to a point where there will be many on 'life support' when it may be better if most failed to encourage better games.  I think the gaming market doesn't seem to punish bad creativity/development.  

Every MMORPG seems to have survival-hardcore-sandbox aspects; no one seems to be thinking outside the 'sandbox'.  Then again people were crying out for games like this, but that didn't mean every developer should take a shot at making one.

Thanks for the insight.

Nilden

Kyleran said:

Short of purchasing a SuperData report (who claim to have deep industry insight) you aren't likely to come up with reasonable figures for most any game.

Even in this thread there's a high level of delusion with the numbers being given.

Yea but they list Hearthstone and Dota as MMO's.

Really there is no number and anyone giving a number is making an estimate pulled out of their ass.

Kyleran

Nilden said:

Kyleran said:

Short of purchasing a SuperData report (who claim to have deep industry insight) you aren't likely to come up with reasonable figures for most any game.

Even in this thread there's a high level of delusion with the numbers being given.

Yea but they list Hearthstone and Dota as MMO's.

Really there is no number and anyone giving a number is making an estimate pulled out of their ass.

Can't disagree, no good way to measure anymore really, except perhaps by how much money a company is raking in. 

Kevyne-Shandris

gervaise1 said:

WoW is a subscription game though.

Hybrid subscription or token pay model.

Their strat now isn't the numbers game, but how long players are playing now (like the AP grind+RNG to keep people on those rat wheels and paying).

Hariken

The big game companies have given up on making mmo's now. That's why we have so many crowd funded games and most of them are making promises they can't keep. So that should tell you how the state of the genre really is.

MaxBacon

If you go financials, MMO's earn 60% the ENTIRE PC Gaming revenue. That is one market of 20 Billion $$$.

The playerbase is very unknown but you can speculate around 20-50 Million people playing MMO's world-wide.

If you count on the MMO sphere, games like LoL, then that number will skyrocket to hundreds of millions.

mgilbrtsn

Luiden said:

Does it matter?  They all pretty much suck these days. 

Well, that ends this thread.  Next thread to ruin (or attempt to ruin).  

Kevyne-Shandris

MaxBacon said:

If you go financials, MMO's earn 60% the ENTIRE PC Gaming revenue. That is one market of 20 Billion $$$.

The playerbase is very unknown but you can speculate around 20-50 Million people playing MMO's world-wide.

If you count on the MMO sphere, games like LoL, then that number will skyrocket to hundreds of millions.

MMOs numbers don't equal people, because multi-boxing is common in them (I died a little inside when I saw in EvE multi-boxers at a gate, even).

So the publishers can say they sold 10,000,000 copies, that never translates to 10,000,000 humans playing.

The lack of actual humans playing is dead worlds. People just love new games because so many people are playing. But give it 6 months the multi-boxers come, and the world is dull except for a mob run by one toon.

13thBen

jimmytrouser said:

Simple question that I can't seem to find an answer to online:

Which are the most popular mmorpgs and how many players are there in each, anyone know?

Please post a link to the website as I am really interested in finding this out.

Maybe this will help
http://www.mmorpg.com/play-now

MaxBacon

Kevyne-Shandris said:

MMOs numbers don't equal people, because multi-boxing is common in them (I died a little inside when I saw in EvE multi-boxers at a gate, even).

So the publishers can say they sold 10,000,000 copies, that never translates to 10,000,000 humans playing.

The lack of actual humans playing is dead worlds. People just love new games because so many people are playing. But give it 6 months the multi-boxers come, and the world is dull except for a mob run by one toon.

These numbers are not copies sold, are active players. While WoW keeps numbers hidden, in a month it's speculated it gets 10 million active players. While LoL alone claims to have 100 million monthly active players.

World of Tanks reaches 1.1 million concurrent users, the number of active ones likely falls on +10 million.

So when we talk the MMO player base we need to look at the number of people that actively plays them, that would be how many of 10M copies sold will play in a week or in a month.

Eldurian

MaxBacon said:

If you go financials, MMO's earn 60% the ENTIRE PC Gaming revenue. That is one market of 20 Billion $$$.

The playerbase is very unknown but you can speculate around 20-50 Million people playing MMO's world-wide.

If you count on the MMO sphere, games like LoL, then that number will skyrocket to hundreds of millions.

I believe if you're quoting the study I think you are that the statistic does include MOBAs like LoL into MMORPG revenue. MMOs have been a market in decline for a long time in the west. They are not doing so hot right now and are doing less hot by the day.

For instance, name the last MMO released in the west and all the major western MMOs in development right now.

Last major one I can think of is ESO over three years ago and the only big ones (I'm defining big as 100 million or more for budget) on the horizon are the Amazon MMO I've been hearing rumors of and Star Citizen.