Black Desert Online now has over 28K players on STEAM

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  • PhryPhry OxfordshireMember EpicPosts: 8,906
    DMKano said:
    Xigncode3 sucks - but since I play BDO, i have to accept using it sadly.

    What sucks about it is that it interferes with any kind of hypervisor - so if you are running virtualization on your PC - can't run BDO on that PC.

    just like any 3rd party anti-cheat software - it's just sad how easily it's bypassed though - so those who cheat in BDO have zero issues with Xigncode3, as all the cheats bypass it easily- those who don't are the ones that have to deal with crap that Xigncode3 breaks.

    The real issue with BDO (and many Korean developed MMOs in general) - is that they trust the client FAR too much - client side cooldowns for example are still an issue in BDO.

    If BDO was done to where most things were checked on the server side - they wouldn't even need Xigncode to begin with.

    But sadly - the lack of server side checks is attempted to be covered by Xigncode -as we've all seen - it just doesn't do anything to stop the cheaters. 

    Kind of like gun control laws do zero to prevent ciminals from obtaining guns - since they never obtain them legally anyway.

    Same shit with Xigncode - useless

    Unfortunately, even if that were the case and they did handle more of it Server side, rather than Client side, certain types of players would still find some other way to 'cheat'. Xigncode etc. far from being useless, does work to some degree, but no protection is perfect after all which is why its most likely just 'part' of the measures used to help prevent cheating.
    While the game itself doesn't cost that much, it does mean that when cheaters are caught, they do suffer some financial loss by losing their accounts.
    That is probably as much as we can realistically hope for with the state of technology today. :/
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 16,700
    edited June 28
    Phry said:

    I think your misunderstanding something Sean, the Steam numbers, are just the new players who have joined since it went on sale on Steam, the game already had a solid playerbase beforehand, it actually only represents a small percentage of the overall playerbase, it would not surprise me in the least if the overall consecutive user numbers far exceeded 100k. ;)

    The industry term is  CCU - concurrent users - Daum (at the time before Kakao) reported that CCU was around 120K one month after launch (this was NA and EU combined)

    This was the only real CCU figure reported publically.

    All of the below is *my speculation*

    At launch all the servers were "overrun" - like every single one of them - they added more and still were overrun.

    About 3-4 months later - during peak time the servers were down to less than 5 overrun, some crowded and some not showing any status (blank - meaning less than crowded)

    IMO the game went down to probably 40-50K CCU during that low

    Awakenings brought people back and CCU probably went to 60K+ and remained there.

    With steam they are probably around 90K mark - but probably 30-40K shy from launch numbers

    Just my 2c.


    Post edited by DMKano on
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member RarePosts: 2,291
    edited June 28
    MaxBacon said:
    @Renoaku they have one authoritative stand in anti-cheating control. It's not anything uncommon when you consider Korea has legal implications for cheating in online games.

    Now mind, if people push to overthrown XingCode in NA/EU, things are going to get bad , by no means I would see the Korean devs doing a specific anti-cheating implementation for the NA/EU/other regions and maintaining that.

    As they already clarified and stated what it is and what it does, it's up to the people who play the game if they don't want it... well, to not play the game.
    What are the punishments for Cheating in an online game in korea, I am actually curious about this now, and do they actually prove it before taking justice?

    I wish the U.S would adopt laws against cheating in Online Games and be serious about it when it comes to cheating, something including Jail Time, or ban from ever touching a computer for X number of years on a second proven offense, the first time being a warning and a small fine or something.

    When I talk about cheating I don't mean RMT though I think users should still be allowed to sell their own free time the way they wish in games such as Fiverr, people who sell games of Overwatch for $5 for 3 Match-Made games and such I think generally shouldn't qualify under such only Cheating with 3rd party hacks or cheats or cheating programs.

    And yeah I don't mind XingCode, if it would respect privacy, and be fully transparent, (Before) a person buys the game like if Daum would upgrade the Terms OF Service, or put a little checkbox on their stores page that says by purchasing you are aware the game will require XingCode a 3rd party program to be installed you can read about it (Here) with a link, as well as listing on the Steam Sales Page.

    They did clear some things up, which is why I more don't trust it, because basically Daum if I understand admitted to what the hackers already said on some blog back away's that XingCode didn't scan files or things outside of the game but their steam Q&A says differently if I am understanding it all correctly

    So for now I just keep pushing to make them list it on their store pages properly letting customers know, the sad thing is that when I purchased this they didn't offer refunds to players who couldn't or didn't want to play the game because of this so it was $100 down the drain just for buying the game. I am trying to check within European privacy Laws if there is anything that can be used to make the company have to change their stores page or anything so i've been sending emails to all the contacts I can find with privacy companies, and Legal over there maybe I will get a reply soon, because I tell them how I think my privacy has been violated by XingCode and Daum not letting me know before my purchase.

    DMKano said:
    Xigncode3 sucks - but since I play BDO, i have to accept using it sadly.

    What sucks about it is that it interferes with any kind of hypervisor - so if you are running virtualization on your PC - can't run BDO on that PC.

    just like any 3rd party anti-cheat software - it's just sad how easily it's bypassed though - so those who cheat in BDO have zero issues with Xigncode3, as all the cheats bypass it easily- those who don't are the ones that have to deal with crap that Xigncode3 breaks.

    The real issue with BDO (and many Korean developed MMOs in general) - is that they trust the client FAR too much - client side cooldowns for example are still an issue in BDO.

    If BDO was done to where most things were checked on the server side - they wouldn't even need Xigncode to begin with.

    But sadly - the lack of server side checks is attempted to be covered by Xigncode -as we've all seen - it just doesn't do anything to stop the cheaters. 

    Kind of like gun control laws do zero to prevent ciminals from obtaining guns - since they never obtain them legally anyway.

    Same shit with Xigncode - useless

    Yeah I know how easy XingCode is to bypass so if I were a cheater who wanted to like hack in this game bypassing wouldn't be a problem I have a programmer who does code for me I hire him and he makes me good quality stuff with protections as well as could remove XingCode if I asked him to for me proving it doesn't work. But I would rather pay them to do custom code for me for my own needs (Not making cheats) than to spend $1000 in Black Desert over a year.

    The problem with Korean Games, is they are quickly thrown together, and so they lack server side checks such as why a person could refill HP/MP, as well as spam skills in BDO with no cool down, personally I still liked "Arche Age" more than BDO, and Trion gave up their Anti-Cheat, and that is why I kept playing for as long as I did once I found out about it I would have uninstalled their game too, but I still stopped playing because of Trions Decision to do Fresh Start servers, and over half the population left due to dumb decision making by Trion.

    So why the heck should I pay a company top dollar, spend $100 on costumes and cosmetics in a store, when honestly they can't even offer halfway decent protection against cheaters, and hound me with XingCode as a legitimate player because I use a VPN service, or run Virtualization on my pc, there is no legitimate reason why a company should ever be granted such power over what a user can or can't do outside of their software, Sure there are a lot of blind sheep who want to play the game so they will do this, I used to be one of these, but not anymore, not after seeing XingCode destroy my Android Device, Modify my files, and how it behaves.

    I do hope that Crow Fall, or Ashes of Creation, become good games it will be great to see both Albion, and Black Desert lose a lot of its player base, only way to show a company is with your wallet.

    Post edited by Renoaku on
    ExcessionMrMelGibson
  • MikehaMikeha Member EpicPosts: 7,755
    Black Desert has broke its own record again. 
    Age of Wushu 2 is a sandbox innovative triple A game built with Unreal Engine 4 that will be launched in 2018. It is based on "real martial art" concepts with naturalistic and societal survival elements. With grand scenes of the world, highly appealing picture atmosphere, rich details such as vegetation , architecture, characters and other real delicate texture performance, it is a combination of high-quality visual effects, bringing an user-level sensory experience. Whether it is physical destruction of the scene, or based on the true performance of IK technology in movement and combat, Age of Wushu 2 brings a whole evolution of gaming experience.
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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,165
    edited September 5
    While not at the top as it was, that is to be expected. Every game loses players after a while. However, numbers are still very good on Steam

    Black Desert Online 14,12513,663.4-370.6-2.64%

    So with that, its lost 370 players past 30 days. No matter the reasons, the numbers are still rather good for a game. 

    Even Skyrim lost a HUGE, and ACTIVE player amount on Steam shortly after release. And Skyrim was a well regarded release and highly rated. However Skyrim as of now is very stable player wise, and even (as seen below) gained players.

    However, BDO seems to have found a stable playerbase of 12k-15k on Steam, not counting non-steam version. That is pretty respectable I find. Far from dead.

    However, Skyrim actually DOES have more players, and has lost very little in the past 30 days

    The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim18,68116,198.6-77.1-0.47%

    The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim Special Edition11,72210,011.4+243.5+2.49%

    and in fact Special Edition has GAINED players and hasn't lost any. And regular edition has lost very few, and some of those might have moved to Special Edition.

    So comparing the two, BDO is pretty respectable at about  15k roughly players on Steam. Skyrim has roughly double that though. With that said, I haven't looked at other MMOs on Steam to see how their player base is like. MMOs might not be as big as other genres of games on Steam. So the next post I'll go through the stats of what other MMOs look like.
    Post edited by TheScavenger on
    Azaron_NightbladeRexKushman

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,165
    edited September 6
    For a more fair comparison to BDO than Skyrim (which Skyrim is top dog pretty much at 30k players between the games)...these are other MMOs. Also to add. BDO is on the top selling list in the MMO category on Steam, remove the "MMO" checkbox and its 2nd just below player unknowns battleground (which is labeled under the MMO genre for some reason)

    Again, remember this is Steam only, and like BDO, doesn't account for ALL players

    FINAL FANTASY XIV Online9,5368,153.3-291.3-3.45%

    That shows less than 10k active, and 8k average. Its lost a bit less than BDO however, but a greater percentage. 

    Ryzom1211.1-0.2-1.95%

    You can see here Ryzom isn't even a contestant. However, it is a niche MMO and not that well known or advertised.

    RIFT 454462.0-12.1-2.56%

    You can see RIFT isn't very successful on Steam. Less I'd say than Ryzom, despite Ryzom being such a low player count. Ryzom has the excuse of being a niche, not that well known and not advertised MMO. Though RIFT steam active players haven't gone down much )only -12), though it is by a large percent due to the lower player count. 

    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited10,5698,653.5+556.0+6.87%

    Again, still less than BDO. Which FFXIV and BDO are top regarded MMOs and both have less players than BDO on Steam. However, ESO has seen a huge increase (500+) of active players.

    Elite Dangerous5,2723,971.3+61.8+1.58%

    For a niche MMO, very respectable. That is doing pretty well in its niche. 

    Kudos to Elite for being successful in its niche. Kudos to ESO for seeing such a large increase in active players. FFXIV losing ground on Steam, overtaken by BDO and ESO. At least, as far as STEAM stats go, remember this does NOT account for non-steam versions of the above MMOs.


    Post edited by TheScavenger on
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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILMember EpicPosts: 5,747
    Then there are players like me who give a game a break for about 6 months or so but when I do come back, usually during a sale or expansion, I usually buy stuff in the cash shop and probably end up spending as much as I would have spent if I had played the entire time.

    "Change is the only constant."

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthMember EpicPosts: 4,223
    I suspect FFXIV has more players overall, since it's a lot more casual friendly and has no open world pvp, but yeah, anyone playing BDO can easily see that the game us doing very well for itself. I'm not surprised about the Skyrim thing though. Single player games have always done better than MMO's overall, and Skyrim's one of the most popular titles at that.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    Feel free to send me a message if you want a guest pass to try Black Desert Online as well!

  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,248
    Kinda misleading to assume that online count is people playing the game. If you played it you would know most activities can be/ are done afk. Most of those numbers are simply people fishing, running in circles with or without a horse.

    I don't take the merit of the game. I'm playing the Brazilian version/server of BDO and I'm in love with it... It is just what it is: Those numbers are not a correct sum of online active players as much EvE numbers are not precise due multi accounts and bots.
    Excession

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,165
    edited September 5
    Nyctelios said:
    Kinda misleading to assume that online count is people playing the game. If you played it you would know most activities can be/ are done afk. Most of those numbers are simply people fishing, running in circles with or without a horse.

    I don't take the merit of the game. I'm playing the Brazilian version/server of BDO and I'm in love with it... It is just what it is: Those numbers are not a correct sum of online active players as much EvE numbers are not precise due multi accounts and bots.
    they aren't supposed to be scientific, but how many players are ON (and using Steam, so its not even ALL the player base of the above games). 

    In Ultima Online, a huge portion of the playerbase is AFK botting (or macroing they call it, same thing). Plus multi accounts are very common.

    In WoW, quite a few people just stand in a city waiting for queues to pop. Plus multi accounts are pretty common, I've met quite a few people who multi account since they don't want to bother with groups for dungeons.

    Your EVE example of course.

    And any number of other MMOs. This isn't a scientific study where posters post numbers and spend 10s of thousands or 100s of thousands of government tax funded money to find statistics of how many people are on and are active and aren't multi accounts and any number of variances.

    No MMO can have scientific numbers, not ESO, not FFXIV not GW2. Even 100s of thousands of dollars worth of research still may not go through ALL the variances of active players and all that stuff.
    Post edited by TheScavenger on
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  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,248
    edited September 5
    Nyctelios said:
    Kinda misleading to assume that online count is people playing the game. If you played it you would know most activities can be/ are done afk. Most of those numbers are simply people fishing, running in circles with or without a horse.

    I don't take the merit of the game. I'm playing the Brazilian version/server of BDO and I'm in love with it... It is just what it is: Those numbers are not a correct sum of online active players as much EvE numbers are not precise due multi accounts and bots.
    they aren't supposed to be scientific, but how many players are ON (and using Steam, so its not even ALL the player base of the above games). 

    In Ultima Online, a huge portion of the playerbase is AFK botting (or macroing they call it, same thing). Plus multi accounts are very common.

    In WoW, quite a few people just stand in a city waiting for queues to pop. Plus multi accounts are pretty common, I've met quite a few people who multi account since they don't want to bother with groups for dungeons.

    Your EVE example of course.

    And any number of other MMOs. This isn't a scientific study where posters post numbers and spend 10s of thousands or 100s of thousands of government tax funded money to find statistics of how many people are on and are active and aren't multi accounts and any number of variances.

    No MMO can have scientific numbers, not ESO, not FFXIV not GW2. Even 100s of thousands of dollars worth of research still may not go through ALL the variances of active players and all that stuff.
    I would argue games with subscription could have more precise numbers due the cost and EvE is the exception which makes the rule. Other factor would be gameplay mechanic: Kinda hard to multibox with games that are not built around it.


    Again, I don't think it hurts the game. I actually like it has these afk activities because they feed the market place and make the game economy spin.

    I'm too "new" to brazilian server to precisely state my opinion on the matter here but players with multiple accounts is a thing already. I don't know about NA, tho.

    Also, that's outside Steam.
    Post edited by Nyctelios on

    " Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
    —Urza

    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson USAMember EpicPosts: 2,239
    Sephiroso said:
    MaxBacon said:
    MaxBacon said:
    DMKano said:
    When the game was down for maintenance - all servers off - it showed 6006 players as "playing"

    How is that possible? Yep AFK players
    Game Launchers.

    It's a well-known thing within MMO's and their launchers that steam counts them as online if you are in the launcher, it's the case in many of them as people could tell. When FF XIV was down they also showed 4-6k players online.
    Any proof to your claim?  I'd like clarification before I take you on your word.  No offense.
    You might check many big existent discussions about this in Steam and all, of course, the developers and Valve are silent about the manipulation of numbers.

    But it's known once this MMO's are in globally down in maintenance, thousands are still playing them, that's when it became clear that steam only sees the executable the library starts (the launcher) and not the executable the launcher starts.
    Are people really disputing what you're saying? Jesus. People it's just like Discord. Discord shows people as playing "World of Warcraft" even if they've been disconnected and they simply have the login screen up.

    It 100% shows people as playing "x game" when they simply have the launcher up. One example is Neverwinter Online.
    I wasn't disputing anything.  I wanted clarification on his statement.   Unless you live in alternate fact reality, that's how it usually works.  Make a claim, be ready to back it up with facts.
  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,248
    Sephiroso said:
    MaxBacon said:
    MaxBacon said:
    DMKano said:
    When the game was down for maintenance - all servers off - it showed 6006 players as "playing"

    How is that possible? Yep AFK players
    Game Launchers.

    It's a well-known thing within MMO's and their launchers that steam counts them as online if you are in the launcher, it's the case in many of them as people could tell. When FF XIV was down they also showed 4-6k players online.
    Any proof to your claim?  I'd like clarification before I take you on your word.  No offense.
    You might check many big existent discussions about this in Steam and all, of course, the developers and Valve are silent about the manipulation of numbers.

    But it's known once this MMO's are in globally down in maintenance, thousands are still playing them, that's when it became clear that steam only sees the executable the library starts (the launcher) and not the executable the launcher starts.
    Are people really disputing what you're saying? Jesus. People it's just like Discord. Discord shows people as playing "World of Warcraft" even if they've been disconnected and they simply have the login screen up.

    It 100% shows people as playing "x game" when they simply have the launcher up. One example is Neverwinter Online.
    I wasn't disputing anything.  I wanted clarification on his statement.   Unless you live in alternate fact reality, that's how it usually works.  Make a claim, be ready to back it up with facts.
    He is right, tho.

    If you open the patcher to download or update and go to sleep with it on, for steam and steam chart / steam spy you played the entire night.

    " Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
    —Urza

    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • MrMelGibsonMrMelGibson USAMember EpicPosts: 2,239
    Nyctelios said:
    Sephiroso said:
    MaxBacon said:
    MaxBacon said:
    DMKano said:
    When the game was down for maintenance - all servers off - it showed 6006 players as "playing"

    How is that possible? Yep AFK players
    Game Launchers.

    It's a well-known thing within MMO's and their launchers that steam counts them as online if you are in the launcher, it's the case in many of them as people could tell. When FF XIV was down they also showed 4-6k players online.
    Any proof to your claim?  I'd like clarification before I take you on your word.  No offense.
    You might check many big existent discussions about this in Steam and all, of course, the developers and Valve are silent about the manipulation of numbers.

    But it's known once this MMO's are in globally down in maintenance, thousands are still playing them, that's when it became clear that steam only sees the executable the library starts (the launcher) and not the executable the launcher starts.
    Are people really disputing what you're saying? Jesus. People it's just like Discord. Discord shows people as playing "World of Warcraft" even if they've been disconnected and they simply have the login screen up.

    It 100% shows people as playing "x game" when they simply have the launcher up. One example is Neverwinter Online.
    I wasn't disputing anything.  I wanted clarification on his statement.   Unless you live in alternate fact reality, that's how it usually works.  Make a claim, be ready to back it up with facts.
    He is right, tho.

    If you open the patcher to download or update and go to sleep with it on, for steam and steam chart / steam spy you played the entire night.
    I agree, and when he replied to my comment I was informed.  Just wanted to know if it was true before I took it as fact.
  • strykr619strykr619 San Diego, CAMember UncommonPosts: 193
    edited September 6
    Why would any person buy an mmo thru steam? They must vote democrat. 
    Post edited by strykr619 on
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,165
    Keep in mind, that is true for most (maybe all? dunno) steam MMOs. I left the Ryzom launcher running over night because forgot to close it and it still showed as online. And I think that was the same with RIFT, I left it running all day (the launcher) and forgot to close it lol.

    Not saying it means that one should ignore that. That is true for any steam charts is anyone can leave it running, so that dilutes(?)/takes away the actual players playing the game since many steam players may leave their game or launcher running. That is true with Skyrim as well, you can leave the launcher running. So while skyrim in total has 30k "active" players, not everyone will be in the game and a portion of those will be in the launcher. Same with most other games.

    Also have to take fact that every steam game, someone can be in the menu and not actually playing or in the game. But like I said, it isn't a scientific observation but what is reported by steam charts.

    Which btw, I added RIFT to the comparison I made above with various MMOs. I forgot about that one.

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  • HunctucavetoHunctucaveto CambridgeMember UncommonPosts: 14
    Came late to the party here, but a couple of thoughts,
    1. Wow the fanboys are out in force here.
    2. "Black Desert Online now has over 28K players on STEAM" and...we care why?

  • RenoakuRenoaku Member RarePosts: 2,291
    edited September 6
    Oh no its like the stock market its crashing !

    http://steamcharts.com/app/582660#All

    All I see is a slow decline in the graph :3.

    Meanwhile I had $3 in bitcoin from a few years ago it increased to $80 I cashed out before it started to decline man if only I had known it would have went up 5000%

    Post edited by Renoaku on
  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,165
    Came late to the party here, but a couple of thoughts,
    1. Wow the fanboys are out in force here.
    2. "Black Desert Online now has over 28K players on STEAM" and...we care why?

    Care enough to spend time posting.

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,165
    edited September 6
    Renoaku said:
    Oh no its like the stock market its crashing !

    http://steamcharts.com/app/582660#All

    All I see is a slow decline in the graph :3.

    Meanwhile I had $3 in bitcoin from a few years ago it increased to $80 I cashed out before it started to decline man if only I had known it would have went up 5000%

    yeah, looking at that gives a good view of the steam graph of people playing the game. It did go down quite a bit over time

    If you look the past month

    http://steamcharts.com/app/582660#1m

    The results are pretty stable, always above 10k

    If you do past 3 months

    http://steamcharts.com/app/582660#3m

    The population definitely went down, was going above 20k playing on steam or having launcher open or afk or whatever. Though maybe during that peak in mid/late June and July they released a new content patch or released something. Especially since most people just hop on when something new is added. Cause early June pop went down a bit, and was up in late May.

    http://steamcharts.com/app/582660#6m

    Though looking at that, population (on Steam) has dropped by about half going from May to now, content patch or not. Seems to be stable at 10k for now, and it'll probably peak up again when they release a new class. Other than that, has lost (steam) players over the past months 


    Post edited by TheScavenger on

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  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,448
    That gun control bit always confuses me when people use it- are you asserting that the criminals manufacture their own guns?  Because if not, then gun control laws will decrease the number of guns that reach the general public, thereby reducing the number of those that fall into the hands of criminals.  /offtopic

    image
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthMember EpicPosts: 4,223
    It'll spike again when Kama drops. Provided it ever does of course. ;)

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  • TheScavengerTheScavenger Matrix, NYMember RarePosts: 2,165
    It'll spike again when Kama drops. Provided it ever does of course. ;)
    well the next class is the Mystic I think or something. There might be a spike when that drops, though I know more people are waiting for Kama than Mystic.
    Azaron_Nightblade

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  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthMember EpicPosts: 4,223
    It'll spike again when Kama drops. Provided it ever does of course. ;)
    well the next class is the Mystic I think or something. There might be a spike when that drops, though I know more people are waiting for Kama than Mystic.
    Yeah. They said NA/EU will get Kama before we get Mystic though... so now it's a matter of waiting to see whether we actually do :P
    TheScavenger

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  • time007time007 Member UncommonPosts: 921
    i think this calls for a yippee doo
    holdenhamlet

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