Ashes of Creation using Assets from "MMO Starter Kit"?

2

Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,898
    Torval said:
    Torval said:
    Nope. I just see someone who isn't a developer trying to hold a technical conversation about things they no nothing about.

    So why did you delete all those posts. What do you have to hide? You keep avoiding your agenda and moving goal posts. If anyone is suspect here, it's you and your smoke and mirrors comments.
    You just stated " no nothing about. " I believe the word is "know".

    I'm not really sure I'm willing to argue with you anymore now.
    Yes, I type very fast and make spelling and grammar errors all the time.

    You should probably go with that thought because it's the best argument you've had on this site yet. Everything else you've posted is total rubbish.
    Once the best someone has is to criticize another person's grammar, punctuation or spelling they've basically conceded the argument.
    ConstantineMerusblueturtle13PreparedExcession

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  • itsoveritsover Member UncommonPosts: 174
    game look like it made out off RPG maker , that why I never back up any kickstarter, ANY... happy with morrowind now.

    image
  • ManWithNoTanManWithNoTan Member UncommonPosts: 50

    Zenimax uses a proprietary engine for Elder Scrolls Online and had no Kickstarter.
    According to http://http//www.heroengine.com/he-games  Elder Scrolls Online uses HeroEngine - which any team can use.


  • ForgrimmForgrimm Somewhere in TimeMember EpicPosts: 2,747

    Zenimax uses a proprietary engine for Elder Scrolls Online and had no Kickstarter.
    According to http://http//www.heroengine.com/he-games  Elder Scrolls Online uses HeroEngine - which any team can use.


    Hi, folks. When we began development for ESO, we licensed the HeroEngine so that we could hit the ground running. We used it as a tool for things like area prototypes and design concepts so that we could begin honing the art style. HeroEngine was our whiteboard: a great tool to put our ideas in the game and seeing them while the production engine was in development.

  • SovrathSovrath Boston Area, MAMember LegendaryPosts: 23,225

    Here is the MMO Starter Kit. Notice the health bars and inventory. You can purchase it here.



    Here are images of the assets in the Monster Coin System Preview




     I don't think that's really fair.

    How long does it take to quickly use some pre-made assets that are pretty much for function as opposed to having your artists sit down (and I suppose a programmer) and make one.

    Especially as they want to get a working game up and running as soon as possible.

    Players really are their own worst enemy. They want AAA looking titles that operate like Indy Titles, that don't cost them much to anything, they want these games to be put together quickly and they want them great.

    They extol the virtues of tools that allow actual indy developers to put together games but you can't use those tools because that means they are thieves and less than.

    It's become a bit ridiculous.
    Distopiablueturtle13KyleranGaendricYashaXConstantineMerusGdemami



  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,903
    I think this should be an expectation. It's been quoted before on multiple occasions by multiple industry veterans that pre-made assets are commonly used. This is no different. 

    Wasn't it just you last week who stated that you had MASSIVE concerns that they were using Unreal? Lol, now what? Now the engine is ok and you're onto pre-built assets? LOL!!! 

    BTW, if you need citations for the statement that it is COMMON PRACTICE to use pre-built assets when building a game or prototype, let me know and I'll happily link that, although I'm sure I've linked it to you before, just last week, so I don't know if it would help. You can fix ignorance, you can't fix dumb. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • YashaXYashaX Baldurs GateMember RarePosts: 2,014
    To be honest I don't mind what tools devs use as long as the game is good. I don't think your screenshot proves that they are using that particular asset though. 
    ....
  • blorpykinsblorpykins Member RarePosts: 311
    Shroud of the Avatar, probably the biggest disappointment in gaming I've ever experienced ever, is a cookie cutter fest in game from scenes all the way down to deco items and armor.  And almost all of their assets are purchased from asset stores so it isn't even custom work to begin with, it's a hodgepodge of recycle and resize.  That hodgepodge is the biggest turnoff.

    The vision for a game comes from one person, and if that person has people digging through asset stores for everything then who's vision is being realized for the game?  people wonder why Star Citizen is so crazy successful and why people buys ships in concept.  It's because it all comes from Chris Roberts.  He gets influences the entire process and selects what he believes fits into his game and people love it.  For the rest of the crowdfunding industry, he's set an incredibly high bar in that regard... when the scale tips in favor of asset store items over custom work, I see that as a failure in the creative process.

    So long as Intrepid creates enough assets to maintain creative ownership of the world in game, I'll be good with some third party stuff.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,561
    I agree.. SOTA is probably the worst example of how to use pre-made assets.

    I don't mind if a game uses some, as long as the bulk of the game is their own work.  No need to continually re-create some of the basics.

    What really puts me off is if a company starts to simply upload pre-made assets into their store and sell them for $50.  That's just lame.

    CrazKanukblorpykinsYashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,903
    I agree.. SOTA is probably the worst example of how to use pre-made assets.

    I don't mind if a game uses some, as long as the bulk of the game is their own work.  No need to continually re-create some of the basics.

    What really puts me off is if a company starts to simply upload pre-made assets into their store and sell them for $50.  That's just lame.


    Plus, unity has UMA which allows for easy customization of avatars, which means that PG of NPCs is even more accessible than any other engine, based on what I know. So the use of store assets is cool, but once you're in release, there shouldn't be any reason that you can't have varied NPCs. 

    Also, I'm on the fence about the whole selling store assets thing. I mean they're trying to fund their ongoing development, I get that, but I don't know that I'm a fan of reselling free store assets in-game. If you can't afford to hire someone to dedicate to creating assets for resale, then that pretty much sums up the state of the game. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • AkulasAkulas GoldcoastMember UncommonPosts: 2,108
    If it still offers the same gameplay it doesn't matter if it's ascii graphics or not.

    This isn't a signature, you just think it is.

  • blorpykinsblorpykins Member RarePosts: 311
    Akulas said:
    If it still offers the same gameplay it doesn't matter if it's ascii graphics or not.
    Depends on the game entirely.  I remember days when it was all about books and graph paper and some of those game sessions I still use in the scale for grading a new game experience.  Some of the newer games though, if the graphics aren't there I just as soon pass.  I like games that tax my rig as well - for me, keeping up with current tech is fun too.
  • psiicpsiic Tampa, FLMember RarePosts: 1,537
    Not surprised considering the designers of the Unreal engine themselves have stated from the beginning the engine is not designed for nor has the capacity to be used for massive multiplayer game design. The net code will NEVER work 200 players and this will become totally unplayable but hey I've learned over the years you can't tell anyone anything here. Try and save people money and disappointment and they just get hostile at you. 
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Valve Corporation Member LegendaryPosts: 9,758
    psiic said:
    Not surprised considering the designers of the Unreal engine themselves have stated from the beginning the engine is not designed for nor has the capacity to be used for massive multiplayer game design. The net code will NEVER work 200 players and this will become totally unplayable but hey I've learned over the years you can't tell anyone anything here. Try and save people money and disappointment and they just get hostile at you. 
    They have stated about 30 times now they are using Unreal 4 for graphics not for netcode. More than one MMO has already been made using the UE. smh can't tell anyone here anything indeed.
    DistopiaConstantineMerus

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,435
    psiic said:
    Not surprised considering the designers of the Unreal engine themselves have stated from the beginning the engine is not designed for nor has the capacity to be used for massive multiplayer game design. The net code will NEVER work 200 players and this will become totally unplayable but hey I've learned over the years you can't tell anyone anything here. Try and save people money and disappointment and they just get hostile at you. 
    as a developer if they told me this my first question would be this 'what about some kind of linked  system? most players never interact with more than 200 people anyway and the server size saying thousands is usually just something to beat off too so maybe link the worlds in separate dedicated servers that are not easy to get back and forth from, but the player statics and economy is shared? I have seen 3 man teams do this'

    head explody
    GdemamiExcession

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  • barasawabarasawa Eugene, ORMember UncommonPosts: 531
    Placeholders are very common until late in development. 

    I saw a game and could tell it would be a hit that only had ascii characters for it's graphics at that time. It had real graphics, won awards, inspired a bunch of clones, and it sold great when it was eventually released. 

    Things these days are easily a thousand times more complicated. (That whole game fit on a single side of one floppy disk.) Using placeholders for things, even engine code, is pretty standard. After all, there are plenty of things you can't test unless other parts are there in some form, even if it's not the final one.  So judging someone poorly for using available assets for placeholders is like judging a cake by tasting the flour before the ingredients are mixed and cooked.

    Besides, it's not like they are Digital Homicide. (Now there's a horror story to read about.)

    Lost my mind, now trying to lose yours...

  • rastapastorrastapastor KnurMember UncommonPosts: 178
    Usually when You prototype a game You dont use the models that are made by super artists
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,903
    psiic said:
    Not surprised considering the designers of the Unreal engine themselves have stated from the beginning the engine is not designed for nor has the capacity to be used for massive multiplayer game design. The net code will NEVER work 200 players and this will become totally unplayable but hey I've learned over the years you can't tell anyone anything here. Try and save people money and disappointment and they just get hostile at you. 

    They likely wouldn't use the Unreal netcode. They would probably use some sort of network framework in order to facilitate this. I've actually seen this done in Unity using Photon. I THINK that Photon can also be used in Unreal. It's more of a network layer and should be engine agnostic, I THINK! 

    Either way, the whole concurrent player and persistence issue would likely be handled by some sort of add-on or pre-existing networking layer that just does a better job of managing network stuffs. 
    Distopia

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173
    CrazKanuk said:
    psiic said:
    Not surprised considering the designers of the Unreal engine themselves have stated from the beginning the engine is not designed for nor has the capacity to be used for massive multiplayer game design. The net code will NEVER work 200 players and this will become totally unplayable but hey I've learned over the years you can't tell anyone anything here. Try and save people money and disappointment and they just get hostile at you. 

    They likely wouldn't use the Unreal netcode. They would probably use some sort of network framework in order to facilitate this. I've actually seen this done in Unity using Photon. I THINK that Photon can also be used in Unreal. It's more of a network layer and should be engine agnostic, I THINK! 

    Either way, the whole concurrent player and persistence issue would likely be handled by some sort of add-on or pre-existing networking layer that just does a better job of managing network stuffs. 
    You guys should stop getting hostile. :)

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • ElminzterElminzter MelbourneMember UncommonPosts: 273
    for a mmorpg and no net code really?? isnt net code the most important part for gameplay i.e. raiding/pvp/gvg???

    imo, if they are going the route to develop their own net code this is gonna take at least 5yrs or its gonna be another buggy mess ofc unless they only cater to 20-30 players in zone, not forgetting if world is seamless and net code is crap = game over lmao.

    my 2 cents
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,903
    Elminzter said:
    for a mmorpg and no net code really?? isnt net code the most important part for gameplay i.e. raiding/pvp/gvg???

    imo, if they are going the route to develop their own net code this is gonna take at least 5yrs or its gonna be another buggy mess ofc unless they only cater to 20-30 players in zone, not forgetting if world is seamless and net code is crap = game over lmao.

    my 2 cents

    No need it's already done

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,435
    edited May 29
    Elminzter said:
    for a mmorpg and no net code really?? isnt net code the most important part for gameplay i.e. raiding/pvp/gvg???

    imo, if they are going the route to develop their own net code this is gonna take at least 5yrs or its gonna be another buggy mess ofc unless they only cater to 20-30 players in zone, not forgetting if world is seamless and net code is crap = game over lmao.

    my 2 cents
    you read it wrong.

    its not 'no net code' its 'not netcode' the product. which also doesnt mean they are creating it from scratch.


    I dont even know what this game 
    Post edited by SEANMCAD on
    Excession

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  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Houston, TXMember EpicPosts: 16,435
    Sovrath said:

    Here is the MMO Starter Kit. Notice the health bars and inventory. You can purchase it here.



    Here are images of the assets in the Monster Coin System Preview




     I don't think that's really fair.

    How long does it take to quickly use some pre-made assets that are pretty much for function as opposed to having your artists sit down (and I suppose a programmer) and make one.

    Especially as they want to get a working game up and running as soon as possible.

    Players really are their own worst enemy. They want AAA looking titles that operate like Indy Titles, that don't cost them much to anything, they want these games to be put together quickly and they want them great.

    They extol the virtues of tools that allow actual indy developers to put together games but you can't use those tools because that means they are thieves and less than.

    It's become a bit ridiculous.
    what I find ridiculous is a community that insits each time a game is made the developers have to re-invent the wheel.
    Lets please stop wasting time doing UI for each game, creating toliet models for every bathroom. There is likely millions of years of new innovative ground breaking things developers could do if they didnt have to spend so much time dicking around with what they have already done in the past
    Excession

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

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  • donger56donger56 cleveland, IAMember RarePosts: 443
    Of all the obvious things to be critical of you went with this nonsense? I am disappoint. I expected better trolling from a community as seasoned and cynical as this one. 
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173
    donger56 said:
    Of all the obvious things to be critical of you went with this nonsense? I am disappoint. I expected better trolling from a community as seasoned and cynical as this one. 
    New member... :)
    ConstantineMerusKyleran

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


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