Why Everyone has a Chance to be the Best in CoE

DefenderXDefenderX Member CommonPosts: 1

No Cash Shop

There is no cash shop at launch, it has been stated many times, if there is don’t buy the game its clearly pay to win. The cash shop is there to continue to make money from those who have already donated to the Kickstarter (this has its own issues).

3 Month head start

Forget that the 3 months head start is supposed to be to create a ‘nicer’ world for the people at launch. There are a couple of more important reasons why the head start is not a true advantage:

Souls – Souls are your passed lives (its why the permadeath system is not really permadeath), having more souls means when you train something you previously had experience in your training goes a lot faster. On creation of the first soul there is a chance you get an old soul that has had up to 4 life times which means these characters are far more powerful than the 3 months head start of a single soul. Get lucky with a soul and you will be more powerful than the majority of head starters after a couple of weeks.

Talents – Talents are special abilities affecting ~5% of the population. Again talents are randomly distributed at character creation and these can make you more ‘special’ than other players who had +3 months without a talent.

Death – Most of the player base in the 3 month head start are settlement runners or higher this means they have more influence (at the start), influence directly impacts life span of the character so expect the majority of head starters to die after 9 months, including the +3 months head start. So once you’ve been playing 6 months the head starters are all dying leaving you to be the most skilled people for 3 months while they all start a new life. So the people who paid only for the game get to play for 3 months playing the most powerful characters. I hope its also clear that in 3 months after launch the new player base will be young adults in their prime while the head starters are getting weak and wrinkly (actually a mechanic).

People Paid to King!

As with everything there are already winners and losers, some of the kingdoms are going to be heavily populated and well structured and some are not purely as some kings have been successful in establishing a player base and some have not. This means if you’re coming into the game with a large, organised player base behind you there will be plenty of opportunity to establish yourselves quickly, and for good or ill, take over a low populated kingdom within 6 months – It takes 28 days to take a town, then 28 days for the county, a further 28 days for the duchy and finally 28 days for the kingdom.  A guild of 100+ organised players will easily have the opportunity to dominate some of the current kingdoms on any of the planned servers.

If you can lead a 100+ player guild you deserve to take the spot of someone who paid $10000 and didn’t have the skills and charisma to do the same.

I don’t have 100+ players to dominate this game with but I want to run a town, county, etc...

As above some of the kings are successful and some are not. There will be opportunities to run a town if that’s what you want, there will be so many towns and counties with npc leaders that if you expressed an interest and showed some modicum of intelligence then only a fool is not going to support you. Come with a few friends and the more unsuccessful kings will be lining up to give you a settlement and probably the surrounding county too.

But the rich kids are buying up legendary weapons!

Probably the most difficult to argue against but let’s follow the previous facts and stuff the devs have said. Combat is mainly based on player skill so if you have no skill it doesn’t matter what weapon you use and if you have skills you can win with a stick. Stat gains are extremely low. The people with these items in less populated kingdoms are likely to lose these items quickly. The items in question are tied to quests which will take months to unlock and probably owned by people who probably can’t leave their settlements to go off and complete said quests.

The people in the successful kingdoms are going to have a better chance of keeping hold of these things but let’s look at what that means: A rich king who paid $10000+ to buy their position has collected many sought after items in their kingdom. If you hate the idea that this system is in place rally against that kingdom, take over the kingdom of one of the weaker kings, consolidate your position then crush the stronger kingdom, it’s probably one the most rewarding end games of all time.

In summary, the game is not pay to win and really is pay to build, pay to lose what you paid for when you fail and pay to suck 6 months after launch. You truly can be anything you want to be by buying this game at launch and don’t worry about the 3 months head start, they are just your content.





Asm0deusDistopiaYashaXZultra

Comments

  • gir243gir243 Member UncommonPosts: 45
    DefenderX said:

    No Cash Shop

    There is no cash shop at launch, it has been stated many times, if there is don’t buy the game its clearly pay to win. The cash shop is there to continue to make money from those who have already donated to the Kickstarter (this has its own issues).

    3 Month head start

    Forget that the 3 months head start is supposed to be to create a ‘nicer’ world for the people at launch. There are a couple of more important reasons why the head start is not a true advantage:

    Souls – Souls are your passed lives (its why the permadeath system is not really permadeath), having more souls means when you train something you previously had experience in your training goes a lot faster. On creation of the first soul there is a chance you get an old soul that has had up to 4 life times which means these characters are far more powerful than the 3 months head start of a single soul. Get lucky with a soul and you will be more powerful than the majority of head starters after a couple of weeks.

    Talents – Talents are special abilities affecting ~5% of the population. Again talents are randomly distributed at character creation and these can make you more ‘special’ than other players who had +3 months without a talent.

    Death – Most of the player base in the 3 month head start are settlement runners or higher this means they have more influence (at the start), influence directly impacts life span of the character so expect the majority of head starters to die after 9 months, including the +3 months head start. So once you’ve been playing 6 months the head starters are all dying leaving you to be the most skilled people for 3 months while they all start a new life. So the people who paid only for the game get to play for 3 months playing the most powerful characters. I hope its also clear that in 3 months after launch the new player base will be young adults in their prime while the head starters are getting weak and wrinkly (actually a mechanic).

    People Paid to King!

    As with everything there are already winners and losers, some of the kingdoms are going to be heavily populated and well structured and some are not purely as some kings have been successful in establishing a player base and some have not. This means if you’re coming into the game with a large, organised player base behind you there will be plenty of opportunity to establish yourselves quickly, and for good or ill, take over a low populated kingdom within 6 months – It takes 28 days to take a town, then 28 days for the county, a further 28 days for the duchy and finally 28 days for the kingdom.  A guild of 100+ organised players will easily have the opportunity to dominate some of the current kingdoms on any of the planned servers.

    If you can lead a 100+ player guild you deserve to take the spot of someone who paid $10000 and didn’t have the skills and charisma to do the same.

    I don’t have 100+ players to dominate this game with but I want to run a town, county, etc...

    As above some of the kings are successful and some are not. There will be opportunities to run a town if that’s what you want, there will be so many towns and counties with npc leaders that if you expressed an interest and showed some modicum of intelligence then only a fool is not going to support you. Come with a few friends and the more unsuccessful kings will be lining up to give you a settlement and probably the surrounding county too.

    But the rich kids are buying up legendary weapons!

    Probably the most difficult to argue against but let’s follow the previous facts and stuff the devs have said. Combat is mainly based on player skill so if you have no skill it doesn’t matter what weapon you use and if you have skills you can win with a stick. Stat gains are extremely low. The people with these items in less populated kingdoms are likely to lose these items quickly. The items in question are tied to quests which will take months to unlock and probably owned by people who probably can’t leave their settlements to go off and complete said quests.

    The people in the successful kingdoms are going to have a better chance of keeping hold of these things but let’s look at what that means: A rich king who paid $10000+ to buy their position has collected many sought after items in their kingdom. If you hate the idea that this system is in place rally against that kingdom, take over the kingdom of one of the weaker kings, consolidate your position then crush the stronger kingdom, it’s probably one the most rewarding end games of all time.

    In summary, the game is not pay to win and really is pay to build, pay to lose what you paid for when you fail and pay to suck 6 months after launch. You truly can be anything you want to be by buying this game at launch and don’t worry about the 3 months head start, they are just your content.





    So....How much are you in for?
    Asm0deusSlapshot1188MaxBacon
  • KavorkaKavorka GothenburgMember UncommonPosts: 8
    im in for 0 dollars/euro/yuan and i agree with every word
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,162
    I see what you did there OP.
    Well played.
  • WellspringWellspring Charlotte, NCMember RarePosts: 455
    When all the dev journals ever talk about is the building and the dance of dynasties side of the game, pay to build/king seems the same as winning to me. 
    Slapshot1188
    --------------------------------------------
  • NildenNilden Canada, NBMember RarePosts: 2,165
    Only there is a cash shop and people are literally paying $10,000 dollars to be king.
    Slapshot1188Gdemami

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer


  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,203
    "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"- Animal Farm
    YashaXConstantineMerusforcelimaDullahanOctagon7711Hatefull

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • AntelinoAntelino Member CommonPosts: 2
    Nilden said:
    Only there is a cash shop and people are literally paying $10,000 dollars to be king.
    It's like you didn't read a single word of his post. Weird.
  • NildenNilden Canada, NBMember RarePosts: 2,165
    Antelino said:
    Nilden said:
    Only there is a cash shop and people are literally paying $10,000 dollars to be king.
    It's like you didn't read a single word of his post. Weird.
    Funny I though a single factual sentence was enough to debunk his entire post.
    GdemamiYashaXSlapshot1188Hatefull

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
    Love Minecraft. And check out my Youtube channel OhCanadaGamer


  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember RarePosts: 1,117
    "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"- Animal Farm
    As awesome as that quote is, in real world there are people who do prefer that. Why else would someone who is flipping burgers would vote for someone with a literal plan to help the rich get richer? 

    When that happens in real world, can't expect all people to hate it in a virtual world. 
    YashaXKyleran
    I am a piece of carbon with a soul, wondering where I got it from. 
    - Drunken Mozart in the Desert
  • HeretiqueHeretique Member UncommonPosts: 1,390
    Nilden said:
    Only there is a cash shop and people are literally paying $10,000 dollars to be king.
    OP's brick wall defeated by one swift sentence.

    YashaXKyleranSlapshot1188Hatefull

    Originally posted by salsa41
    are you have problem ?

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,162
    edited May 24
    I still believe the OP is actually mocking the "it's not p2w" people.
    It's full of contradictions.
    Just check out the first sentence already:
    DefenderX said:

    No Cash Shop

    There is no cash shop at launch, it has been stated many times, if there is don’t buy the game its clearly pay to win. 






    There is no cash shop.. it's been said often there will be no cash shop!
    But yeah if they keep the cash shop then nvm..
    Post edited by Dakeru on
    GdemamiDullahanHatefull
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,291
    Dakeru said:
    I still believe the OP is actually mocking the "it's not p2w" people.
    It's full of contradictions.
    Just check out the first sentence already:
    DefenderX said:

    No Cash Shop

    There is no cash shop at launch, it has been stated many times, if there is don’t buy the game its clearly pay to win. 






    There is no cash shop.. it's been said often there will be no cash shop!
    But yeah if they keep the cash shop then nvm..
    Strange as it may seem I think the OP was serious.

    Most of his points can easily be shot down so no real reason to address, particularly when one of the "kings" in the game has expressed concerns that the current design gives his "team" an insurmountable advantage.

    I suspect he will one day regret his remark as he basically painted a target on his kingdom which several groups will feel compelled to prove him wrong.

    In some ways I feel it is a mistake to take down the P2A items at launch.  If they were still there at least others would have an opportunity to buy similar advantages as the early starters did.

    They really should go full monty on this and cater to those accepting of the model and stop trying to convince people its not P2W, they are never going to believe it.

    Now if a year or so after launch their design actually proves to not provide any real advantage they may actually start to convince people like me to join, but I'm going to wait and see.


    YashaXSlapshot1188GdemamiHatefull

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • holdenfiveholdenfive Member UncommonPosts: 120
    "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"- Animal Farm
    As awesome as that quote is, in real world there are people who do prefer that. Why else would someone who is flipping burgers would vote for someone with a literal plan to help the rich get richer? 

    When that happens in real world, can't expect all people to hate it in a virtual world. 
    People in the real world often aren't single issue voters. Most seem to accept the rich are going to get richer regardless of what any politician does, so economic policy should come down to an individual's wider ideological view of reform regardless of their profession.

    I think it comes down to does the plan make sense? I don't think it does in CoE. But that's more of a view of how players will respond to it than the merit of the mechanics. People, for some reason, are far more inclined to reject any perceived inequity in play than they are in their everyday lives. You're far more likely to have a negative view of a friend who cheated at a game of golf than you are if he told you he cheated on his taxes. I thought Caspian had a psychology degree, and yet he doesn't even seem to display common knowledge about human social behaviour.
    GdemamiDullahanSlapshot1188ConstantineMeruskadajvolaju
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,347
    "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others"- Animal Farm
    As awesome as that quote is, in real world there are people who do prefer that. Why else would someone who is flipping burgers would vote for someone with a literal plan to help the rich get richer? 

    When that happens in real world, can't expect all people to hate it in a virtual world. 
    People in the real world often aren't single issue voters. Most seem to accept the rich are going to get richer regardless of what any politician does, so economic policy should come down to an individual's wider ideological view of reform regardless of their profession.

    I think it comes down to does the plan make sense? I don't think it does in CoE. But that's more of a view of how players will respond to it than the merit of the mechanics. People, for some reason, are far more inclined to reject any perceived inequity in play than they are in their everyday lives. You're far more likely to have a negative view of a friend who cheated at a game of golf than you are if he told you he cheated on his taxes. I thought Caspian had a psychology degree, and yet he doesn't even seem to display common knowledge about human social behaviour.
    It's as if we play role playing games, in part,  to escape from the inequities of reality.
    Gdemamiholdenfive


  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko JohannesburgMember EpicPosts: 6,542
    CoE is most definitely NOT a game I would consider playing until about 6 months after it's launched.

    Apparently, that won't be a problem, because everyone assures me there's no advantages in starting early... :wink:
    Slapshot1188Octagon7711Kyleran
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,203
    CoE is most definitely NOT a game I would consider playing until about 6 months after it's launched.

    Apparently, that won't be a problem, because everyone assures me there's no advantages in starting early... :wink:
    Well.. not EVERYONE :)
    And I don;t think Caspien is saying that anymore.  I think he is now saying that the people who start at launch won't notice the advantages that the P2W crew got because the P2W crew will only be 5% of the population.


    Yup... here is his quote:
    Consider this: If we're able to reach our minimum goal of 200,000 players, then the couple thousand gentry, aristocracy, and nobility that exists across all our servers is as little as 5% of our total player-base. That means those people at launch who care about exposition or our EP store is extremely small!
    -snip-
    To 190,000 people, the fact that Exposition even existed is irrelevant. They're never going to know, and never going to care. 

    Octagon7711holdenfiveGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • KaosReaperCOBKaosReaperCOB Member CommonPosts: 2
    It actually seems that many people changed their view of "Pay to Win" just to criticize a MMORPG that is going to be different from the others... so if pay to win gives you a REAL advantage how can it be loss to simple players that paid $40 for the standard game... because this is how the game works nevermind what you think... if everyone will hate the one that paid $10.000 his realm could easily rebel and annhilate the king in a matter of weeks... you consider this "win"? You may say that the players probably won't do that and so this will put in evidence that the players want things to work like this and so its fine to them, and (for how this game is designed) if its fine to them it just works well in the game... the guy that spent 10k could be put down by his royal guard throwing away his money... they clearly say that when you pay for the game you are contributing to create the game story, starting with a title and stop... but after the launch the 40 yearly dollars will greatly suffice to make the developers live... so why people is spreading disinformation? and if you want to check what i just said go on the official site and read... the players that throw money on the game perfectly know what they will get and that they won't be sure about their future. 
    Ozmodan
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,203
    It actually seems that many people changed their view of "Pay to Win" just to criticize a MMORPG that is going to be different from the others... so if pay to win gives you a REAL advantage how can it be loss to simple players that paid $40 for the standard game... because this is how the game works nevermind what you think... if everyone will hate the one that paid $10.000 his realm could easily rebel and annhilate the king in a matter of weeks... you consider this "win"? You may say that the players probably won't do that and so this will put in evidence that the players want things to work like this and so its fine to them, and (for how this game is designed) if its fine to them it just works well in the game... the guy that spent 10k could be put down by his royal guard throwing away his money... they clearly say that when you pay for the game you are contributing to create the game story, starting with a title and stop... but after the launch the 40 yearly dollars will greatly suffice to make the developers live... so why people is spreading disinformation? and if you want to check what i just said go on the official site and read... the players that throw money on the game perfectly know what they will get and that they won't be sure about their future. 
    You clearly do not understand how the game works if you believe that someone that pays $40 will be able to "annhilate the king in a matter of weeks"  This is by far the biggest P2W setup I have ever seen.

    ScorchienOzmodanDakeruYashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 3,973
    It actually seems that many people changed their view of "Pay to Win" just to criticize a MMORPG that is going to be different from the others... so if pay to win gives you a REAL advantage how can it be loss to simple players that paid $40 for the standard game... because this is how the game works nevermind what you think... if everyone will hate the one that paid $10.000 his realm could easily rebel and annhilate the king in a matter of weeks... you consider this "win"? You may say that the players probably won't do that and so this will put in evidence that the players want things to work like this and so its fine to them, and (for how this game is designed) if its fine to them it just works well in the game... the guy that spent 10k could be put down by his royal guard throwing away his money... they clearly say that when you pay for the game you are contributing to create the game story, starting with a title and stop... but after the launch the 40 yearly dollars will greatly suffice to make the developers live... so why people is spreading disinformation? and if you want to check what i just said go on the official site and read... the players that throw money on the game perfectly know what they will get and that they won't be sure about their future. 
    ohh ohh   , and with 2 posts .................this comes in handy again .....







    Slapshot1188
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHMember RarePosts: 8,676
    For a game that is not even playable yet, you seem to have quite a lot of knowledge about it.

    Anyone who has ever developed games knows that what has been talked about the game and what is actually delivered is going to be quite different, that is of course if the game does release.

    So post all the nonsense you want about this game, most of us will wait until it is released to see what they actually deliver.
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 806
    edited June 18
    Aren't Souls a cash shop item (even if possibly the only post-launch one)?  Or has that changed?  I haven't been keeping up with that but IIRC originally they were planned to be buyable with cash.
    Post edited by Tiamat64 on
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