CoE plans to allow RMT(gold sellers) during the live game

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Comments

  • OrdanskaOrdanska Member CommonPosts: 16




    Ordanska said:


    @craftseeker

    Yes I did because I allowed people to bait me and inthe the tired state I was in at that time (new baby) I responded and some people obviously found my responses insulting.
    That was probably my bad for allowing myself to type when mad.



    Now I came back to ask snapshot that one question.
     I'm not bothered about these forums or the people in them, I was intrigued why snapshot is still following a game after a year that he obviously hates.




    How can you not understand the draw of following something you hate?


    Because my time is important to me, I would rather enjoy life than hunting down dev posts on a game I dispise.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshMember RarePosts: 6,340
    edited May 5


    Ordanska said:



    Because my time is important to me, I would rather enjoy life than hunting down dev posts on a game I dispise.




    Seems to me like you are perfectly fine with spending your valuable time trashing a person. What is it about protecting a game that makes you feel like it's more legitimate?
    Post edited by BeansnBread on
  • OrdanskaOrdanska Member CommonPosts: 16
    I spent a small amount of time asking a question, please note I did not defend coe. I made no comment on what Caspian said, what i came here for is to ask one member why he follows a game he hates.....
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshMember RarePosts: 6,340

    Ordanska said:

    I spent a small amount of time asking a question, please note I did not defend coe. I made no comment on what Caspian said, what i came here for is to ask one member why he follows a game he hates.....


    Whenever he wakes up, I'm sure he'll tell you.

    It still begs the question based on your previous response: why are you spending your own life wondering why he is spending his life attacking a game? After all, you accused him of following a game he hated. Why would you act like he was being ridiculous with his time when you are guilty of spending your time attacking someone that doesn't like a game?
  • OrdanskaOrdanska Member CommonPosts: 16
    I spent 5 mins asking a question he has spent a year....

    So i have spent 524,155 minutes less than him...
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshMember RarePosts: 6,340
    edited May 5


    Ordanska said:


    I spent 5 mins asking a question he has spent a year....

    So i have spent 524,155 minutes less than him...




    Obviously you don't care, while he does.
    Post edited by BeansnBread on
  • OrdanskaOrdanska Member CommonPosts: 16
    Sorry I don't care about what?

    I've spent time following the game that I'm going to enjoy and in fact I'm already enjoying being a part of the community.
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshMember RarePosts: 6,340

    Ordanska said:

    Sorry I don't care about what?

    I've spent time following the game that I'm going to enjoy and in fact I'm already enjoying being a part of the community.


    My verbiage about you caring was sarcasm. Obviously you care deeply:

    "I registered an account to discuss one thing with the haters.
    Around a year ago I came to these forums and defended COE and a year later on the anniversary of the Kickstarter I have had these forums brought to my attention again for yet again all the wrong reasons."

    You literally registered an account to rebut the OP by trying to say he spends too much of his life not liking a game.



  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,187
    edited May 5


    Ordanska said:


    what i came here for is to ask one member why he follows a game he hates.....




    Awesome!

    Another groupie!
    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • OrdanskaOrdanska Member CommonPosts: 16
    You can't label someone a groupie because they ask a legitimate question. I didn't defend the devs or mention the game.


    I asked why you, someone who hates on the game all the time (you have never said anything good about it) follows it so much. In fact you follow it so in depth that you access your friends account to see the "secret forums" and break the NDA....
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,158

    Ordanska said:








    Ordanska said:



    @craftseeker

    Yes I did because I allowed people to bait me and inthe the tired state I was in at that time (new baby) I responded and some people obviously found my responses insulting.
    That was probably my bad for allowing myself to type when mad.



    Now I came back to ask snapshot that one question.
     I'm not bothered about these forums or the people in them, I was intrigued why snapshot is still following a game after a year that he obviously hates.






    How can you not understand the draw of following something you hate?




    Because my time is important to me, I would rather enjoy life than hunting down dev posts on a game I dispise.


    Wait what?
    You are only here to tell someone to stop following a game you like.
    You even admitted that last time you were busy making rant posts that got you banned when you had a new baby in real life.

    You are the very definition of a hypocrite.
  • OrdanskaOrdanska Member CommonPosts: 16
    edited May 5
    You obviously don't understand what its like with a new child. There was plenty if nights that when I had settled her and was ensuring she did not wake back up that I had time to browse the forums.

    I'm not here to tell him to stop. Read my post again where did I tell him to stop????

    I asked why he bothered if he hated the game.

    Now I remember why I got annoyed last time, people here don't fully readwhat someone posts and then take what was said out of context.


    *edit*
    And I didn't say I made rant post I got silly when people made accusations and comments like some of you have here.
    What I find hard is that someone can get banned defending themselves to trolls but the trolls dont....
    Post edited by Ordanska on
    Eldurian
  • hatefulpeacehatefulpeace nyMember UncommonPosts: 621

    Ordanska said:

    You obviously don't understand what its like with a new child. There was plenty if nights that when I had settled her and was ensuring she did not wake back up that I had time to browse the forums.

    I'm not here to tell him to stop. Read my post again where did I tell him to stop????

    I asked why he bothered if he hated the game.

    Now I remember why I got annoyed last time, people here don't fully readwhat someone posts and then take what was said out of context.


    *edit*
    And I didn't say I made rant post I got silly when people made accusations and comments like some of you have here.
    What I find hard is that someone can get banned defending themselves to trolls but the trolls dont....


    That happens every where, especially on news sites like this one. Hahaha that is true about getting banned for defending your self, but that kinda calmed down here, at least I haven't been banned in a long time. On my other account one of the forum moderators  use to follow me, and ban me for posting almost anything.  This website definitely isn't the bastion of free speech if you were expecting that one. It is one of the better ones I have been to, though some of the forum moderators if you piss them off might ban you just for fun haaha. You might be less likely to get banned, if you give MMOrpg.com money I would imagine. Guess Mmorpg.com is pay 2 win ;)
    Eldurian
  • QuarterStackQuarterStack Member UncommonPosts: 244
    edited May 5
    DMKano said:

    The more you played the more you progressed, and early games like EQ1 were all about extreme time investment, as the pure subscription model was designed to keep people subbed for as long as possible. The primary mechanic was to make everything take a long time to accomplish.

    Fast forward 15 years, the playerbase grew up have jobs, families and less free time - but more money.

    The entire point of a MMORPG is that it was a long-term, on-going and ever-expanding *hobby*, not a game you finish and walk away from. Yes, it cost money to participate in, but most hobbies do. Saying "they were designed to keep you playing a long time" as though it's a bad thing is missing the point of the genre entirely.

    If someone steps into a MMORPG and doesn't like how it's designed, that's an indication that they simply aren't a fit for that genre. It's not a problem to be solved. It's simply a matter of "nothing is for everyone". People have this strange conceit that if they don't like something, it must mean there's something wrong with it, even when others are enjoying it just fine.

    As for the last statement, "Fast forward 15 years..." this is a fallacious comment that needs to die already. It's always been disingenuous, for a couple reasons, and remains so. It also rings as incredibly ego-centric and short-sighted. "*We've* grown up, and *we" don't have the time *we* used to have... therefor the games have to be designed for *us*". Only, replace 'we' and 'us' with 'I' and 'me', because that's really what is being said.

    It's amazing how many people feel their personal life circumstances, the result of their own life choices, somehow entitles them to special attention and preference, on the level of an entire genre being developed specifically *for them*. I can hardly think of a better example of a self-entitled attitude.

    It's also flawed logic because it implies there weren't people playing EQ1, UO, DAoC, AO, etc. etc.. who were grown up, with jobs, families, careers, and less free time even back then. Except there were. Plenty of them.

    Yet, despite limited time and *far* longer progression arcs... they managed and had a great time along the way. I'd say people back then probably enjoyed their MMO experiences far more than people do now. Not least of all because, by and large, they spent their time actually *experiencing* the game, not trying to rush through it.

    Why is that?

    People "back then" weren't so different from people now. The only difference is back then people logged in to enjoy the moment to moment experience, with friends, or strangers. They weren't fretting every moment they logged in on whether they were leveling "optimally enough" or were completing the content "efficiently enough". They were hanging out with others, doing dungeons, questing, going off on random adventures, or whatever a given session involved... and enjoying the experience as it came.

    Now? People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!! I need to get to level cap now, but all this damn content is getting in my way!". Their entire experience is spent on worrying about what happens at the end and that they're not getting there fast enough.

    People back in the first and second gen weren't looking to buy xp-boosters, skill-point boosters, level-jump items and such back then. Because they weren't in a hurry. MMORPGs were a long-term hobby, not a race to a finish line, and they were enjoying themselves.

    It has nothing to do with "people being busy with families and jobs and little time". It has everything to do with people being impatient, wanting their reward *now*, and not wanting to have to spend the time obtaining or earning it.
    Post edited by QuarterStack on
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 9,920





    DMKano said:













    The more you played the more you progressed, and early games like EQ1 were all about extreme time investment, as the pure subscription model was designed to keep people subbed for as long as possible. The primary mechanic was to make everything take a long time to accomplish.

    Fast forward 15 years, the playerbase grew up have jobs, families and less free time - but more money.







    The entire point of a MMORPG is that it was a long-term, on-going and ever-expanding *hobby*, not a game you finish and walk away from. Yes, it cost money to participate in, but most hobbies do. Saying "they were designed to keep you playing a long time" as though it's a bad thing is missing the point of the genre entirely. If someone steps into a MMORPG and doesn't like how it's designed, that's an indication that they simply aren't a fit for that genre. It's not a problem to be solved. It's simply a matter of "nothing is for everyone".

    As for the last statement, "Fast forward 15 years..." this is a fallacious comment that needs to die already. It's always been disingenuous, for a couple reasons, and remains so. It also rings as incredibly ego-centric and short-sighted. "We've grown up, and *we" don't have the time *we* used to have... therefor the games have to be designed for *us*". Only, replace 'we' and 'us' with 'I' and 'we', because that's really what is being said.

    It's amazing how many people feel their personal life circumstances, the result of their own life choices, somehow entitles them to special attention and preference, on the level of an entire genre being developed specifically *for them*. I can hardly think of a better example of a self-entitled attitude.

    It's also flawed logic because it implies there weren't people playing EQ1, UO, DAoC, AO, etc. etc.. who were grown up, with jobs, families, careers, and less free time even back then. Except there were. Plenty of them.

    Yet, despite limited time and *far* longer progression arcs... they managed and had a great time along the way. I'd say people back then probably enjoyed their MMO experiences far more than people do now. Not least of all because, by and large, they spent their time actually *experiencing* the game, not trying to rush through it.

    Why is that?

    People "back then" weren't so different from people now. The only difference is back then people logged in to enjoy the moment to moment experience, with friends, or strangers. They weren't fretting every moment they logged in on whether they were leveling "optimally enough" or were completing the content "efficiently enough". They were hanging out with others, doing dungeons, questing, going off on random adventures.. and enjoying the experience as it came.

    Now? People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!! I need to get to level cap now, but all this damn content is getting in my way!".

    People weren't looking to buy xp-boosters, skill-point boosters, level-jump items and such back then. Because they weren't in a hurry.

    It has nothing to do with "people being busy with families and jobs and little time". It has everything to do with people being impatient, wanting their reward *now*, and not wanting to have to spend the time obtaining or earning it.


    Great post.

    Just a couple of things...

    I'm old enough that I never played MMOs until long after university. I have always had a job, children and family obligations while I played my hobby. So the fallacious argument that tries to justify buying accelerated shortcuts on the basis that our time is just too valuable has always rang hollow with me.

    As to "People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!!" that's Kano right there. If you've ever played a new MMO that he also played you'd know this from his posts. That's what he did in Archeage and in BDO. He also takes great pride in hating quests and lore. He could give less of a shit about the world and community since he's 100% focused on leveling faster than you so he can use his gear and level advantage to gank you... it's how he plays. 
    When you come to a fork on the road, take it.
    You can observe a lot by just watching.
    No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded.

    -- Yogi --
  • QuarterStackQuarterStack Member UncommonPosts: 244
    edited May 5



    Iselin said:


    Great post.

    Just a couple of things...

    I'm old enough that I never played MMOs until long after university. I have always had a job, children and family obligations while I played my hobby. So the fallacious argument that tries to justify buying accelerated shortcuts on the basis that our time is just too valuable has always rang hollow with me.

    As to "People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!!" that's Kano right there. If you've ever played a new MMO that he also played you'd know this from his posts. That's what he did in Archeage and in BDO. He also takes great pride in hating quests and lore. He could give less of a shit about the world and community since he's 100% focused on leveling faster than you so he can use his gear and level advantage to gank you... it's how he plays. 






    Thanks! 

    And about Kano.. well, okay then I guess that explains their point-of-view. I've never had the pleasure of sharing a MMO with them - at least not to my knowledge, so I've never had that experience :p. Though, I'm sure I've gamed with "a Kano" many, many times before - the genre's quite populated with people sharing that point-of-view.

    But yeah, the whole "people have grown up and don't have time they used to" is just incredibly short-sighted and ridiculously off the mark. I eye-roll every time I see someone make that argument. It's one of those things that gets thrown around a lot, and sounds good on its face, until you stop and think about it more deeply, with some historical context... then it falls apart.
    Post edited by QuarterStack on
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 16,682

    Iselin said:









    DMKano said:
















    The more you played the more you progressed, and early games like EQ1 were all about extreme time investment, as the pure subscription model was designed to keep people subbed for as long as possible. The primary mechanic was to make everything take a long time to accomplish.

    Fast forward 15 years, the playerbase grew up have jobs, families and less free time - but more money.









    The entire point of a MMORPG is that it was a long-term, on-going and ever-expanding *hobby*, not a game you finish and walk away from. Yes, it cost money to participate in, but most hobbies do. Saying "they were designed to keep you playing a long time" as though it's a bad thing is missing the point of the genre entirely. If someone steps into a MMORPG and doesn't like how it's designed, that's an indication that they simply aren't a fit for that genre. It's not a problem to be solved. It's simply a matter of "nothing is for everyone".

    As for the last statement, "Fast forward 15 years..." this is a fallacious comment that needs to die already. It's always been disingenuous, for a couple reasons, and remains so. It also rings as incredibly ego-centric and short-sighted. "We've grown up, and *we" don't have the time *we* used to have... therefor the games have to be designed for *us*". Only, replace 'we' and 'us' with 'I' and 'we', because that's really what is being said.

    It's amazing how many people feel their personal life circumstances, the result of their own life choices, somehow entitles them to special attention and preference, on the level of an entire genre being developed specifically *for them*. I can hardly think of a better example of a self-entitled attitude.

    It's also flawed logic because it implies there weren't people playing EQ1, UO, DAoC, AO, etc. etc.. who were grown up, with jobs, families, careers, and less free time even back then. Except there were. Plenty of them.

    Yet, despite limited time and *far* longer progression arcs... they managed and had a great time along the way. I'd say people back then probably enjoyed their MMO experiences far more than people do now. Not least of all because, by and large, they spent their time actually *experiencing* the game, not trying to rush through it.

    Why is that?

    People "back then" weren't so different from people now. The only difference is back then people logged in to enjoy the moment to moment experience, with friends, or strangers. They weren't fretting every moment they logged in on whether they were leveling "optimally enough" or were completing the content "efficiently enough". They were hanging out with others, doing dungeons, questing, going off on random adventures.. and enjoying the experience as it came.

    Now? People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!! I need to get to level cap now, but all this damn content is getting in my way!".

    People weren't looking to buy xp-boosters, skill-point boosters, level-jump items and such back then. Because they weren't in a hurry.

    It has nothing to do with "people being busy with families and jobs and little time". It has everything to do with people being impatient, wanting their reward *now*, and not wanting to have to spend the time obtaining or earning it.




    Great post.

    Just a couple of things...

    I'm old enough that I never played MMOs until long after university. I have always had a job, children and family obligations while I played my hobby. So the fallacious argument that tries to justify buying accelerated shortcuts on the basis that our time is just too valuable has always rang hollow with me.

    As to "People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!!" that's Kano right there. If you've ever played a new MMO that he also played you'd know this from his posts. That's what he did in Archeage and in BDO. He also takes great pride in hating quests and lore. He could give less of a shit about the world and community since he's 100% focused on leveling faster than you so he can use his gear and level advantage to gank you... it's how he plays. 




    What both of you are completely ignoring is that masses today have so many other optons of online entertainment that didnt exist 15 years ago

    Online streaming (Netflix, Youtube, Amazon, Twitch)

    Social media  - twitter, facebook, instagram etc....

    Steam, GoG etc...

    Online Console games

    F2P online game explosion

    Smartphones

    Mobile games


    Go look at market research on how much less focused and dedicated to a single video game masses are today compared to 10+ years ago

    Night and day difference

    People will jump on a new trend and will jump ship in several weeks - -the impact of social media and smartphones has been huge.

    Dont trust me - go pay eedar to show you their player trends over the years.
  • QuarterStackQuarterStack Member UncommonPosts: 244
    edited May 5


    DMKano said:




    What both of you are completely ignoring is that masses today have so many other optons of online entertainment that didnt exist 15 years ago

    Online streaming (Netflix, Youtube, Amazon, Twitch)

    Social media  - twitter, facebook, instagram etc....

    Steam, GoG etc...

    Online Console games

    F2P online game explosion

    Smartphones

    Mobile games


    Go look at market research on how much less focused and dedicated to a single video game masses are today compared to 10+ years ago

    Night and day difference

    People will jump on a new trend and will jump ship in several weeks - -the impact of social media and smartphones has been huge.

    Dont trust me - go pay eedar to show you their player trends over the years.




    Moot.

    There's always been plenty of things vying for people's time and attention. It hasn't suddenly changed because now a lot of it is online/on computers. Playing games, watching a movie, going out with friends, working out, reading a book, etc. etc. etc... it all boils down to what you choose to spend your time doing at any given point. Through our entire lives, there are things vying for our attention, time and money. 

    You seem to assume that one has an interest in any or all of those things in the first place.

    Also, you're forgetting that people can multi-task, and do multiple things at once quite easily these days. For example, you could be playing a MMO, have facebook open in a browser window, Twitter in another, and be checking your smartphone at the same time, while Netflix is streaming in the background.

    You're also arguing completely around the point, and trying to shift the goal-post. You posted about people not having time to play games, MMOs specifically, like they used to because they're grown up, have families and jobs and less time. That's what I was responding to. All the rest of what you just posted has nothing to do with that. Please don't deflect. Thank you.

    The point is how much time you have to dedicate to playing a MMO has no bearing on how you choose to approach that particular activity. The point is many people playing EQ1, DAoC, UO and such were also grown-ups with jobs, families, careers and limited time to play. Yet, they played and enjoyed the game on its terms. They didn't insist the games be moulded specifically for them because they grew up and became an adult.

    The point is... It has nothing to do with "people growing up". It has to do with people growing more impatient and self-entitled.



    Post edited by QuarterStack on
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko JohannesburgMember EpicPosts: 6,540

    DMKano said:








    What both of you are completely ignoring is that masses today have so many other optons of online entertainment that didnt exist 15 years ago

    ...


    Now THAT is a valid comment !

    Not the rubbish about "we've all grown up now and have jobs and families"...

    The tiny population that played the small handful of MMO's back in 2003 is irrelevant today. The online game population has expanded massively, as fast internet access became the norm, and now includes every shade of gamer imaginable.
  • coretex666coretex666 PragueMember RarePosts: 3,208
    edited May 5



    Gdemami said:



    Slapshot1188 said:
    ... he in essence said it was a GOOD THING.
    And it indeed is.

    It is only these boards and posters with awkwardly twisted perception that people spending money on product you sell is a bad thing.



    --------------------------


    And what is superstrange about it is that it occurs on a forum visited by MMORPG enthusiasts.

    Lets stop for a while and investigate and analyse where this awkwardly twisted perception is coming from.

    Why would this particular group of people be concerned with it?


    I have to say, man, I am as puzzled as you. Really, I have no idea why this is happening here. Either we are both really REALLY stupid or this is just extremely tough to figure out. 


    Post edited by coretex666 on
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 1,556

    Ordanska said:
    *edit*
    And I didn't say I made rant post I got silly when people made accusations and comments like some of you have here.
    What I find hard is that someone can get banned defending themselves to trolls but the trolls dont....


    Welcome to MMORPG.com. Just remember to avoid the orange and purple names with fragile egos that use the 'flag' feature as a weapon.
    ~ postlarval ~
    If I knew how I knew everything I knew, then I’d only be able to know half as much because my brain would be all clogged up with where I knew it from. 
  • OrdanskaOrdanska Member CommonPosts: 16




    Ordanska said:
    *edit*
    And I didn't say I made rant post I got silly when people made accusations and comments like some of you have here.
    What I find hard is that someone can get banned defending themselves to trolls but the trolls dont....




    Welcome to MMORPG.com. Just remember to avoid the orange and purple names with fragile egos that use the 'flag' feature as a weapon.


    Now that is good advice
    Eldurian
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 806
    I can only speak for myself, but these days, thanks to all the other social media out there, both free or at least insanely cheap or even not insanely cheap if I so desire, when I play a game, it's constantly in the back of my mind, "I could be doing something else now", so it becomes a question of "Is doing what I'm currently doing more fun?"

    Games that are grindy eventually boil down to doing the same thing over and over again.  In those cases, even if the game was fun at the start, it won't be as fun as other options after a while.

    Hence I can see why player trends would lean towards faster paced less grindy things.  Time that I spend making my character do nothing but run from point A to point B is time I could have spent trying out a new game I never played before where everything is fresh and new.  It might be shallow to always chase after the new honeymoon experience, but keeping yourself in that new honeymoon experience thanks to all the various options you have now is so easy to do that it becomes awfully hard to stick around a game asking me to spend a lot of time doing something I already did (grind) unless that game is really REALLY good.

    The days of me willing to grind for a 1 in 1,000 chance of an item drop or a battle that lasts 10 minutes where nothing really appreciately changes throughout the course of that 10 minute battle  are long gone when even an alternative option as simple was watching a youtube video of clips of an anime or game I've never seen before are available (Yes, I'm old enough to come from a time before Youtube existed, so it's easy for me to see the stark contrast of playing MMOs before it and various other social media became a thing and playing MMOs afterwards)
  • TimEisenTimEisen Columnist Member RarePosts: 2,972

    DMKano said:



    Iselin said:













    DMKano said:



















    The more you played the more you progressed, and early games like EQ1 were all about extreme time investment, as the pure subscription model was designed to keep people subbed for as long as possible. The primary mechanic was to make everything take a long time to accomplish.

    Fast forward 15 years, the playerbase grew up have jobs, families and less free time - but more money.











    The entire point of a MMORPG is that it was a long-term, on-going and ever-expanding *hobby*, not a game you finish and walk away from. Yes, it cost money to participate in, but most hobbies do. Saying "they were designed to keep you playing a long time" as though it's a bad thing is missing the point of the genre entirely. If someone steps into a MMORPG and doesn't like how it's designed, that's an indication that they simply aren't a fit for that genre. It's not a problem to be solved. It's simply a matter of "nothing is for everyone".

    As for the last statement, "Fast forward 15 years..." this is a fallacious comment that needs to die already. It's always been disingenuous, for a couple reasons, and remains so. It also rings as incredibly ego-centric and short-sighted. "We've grown up, and *we" don't have the time *we* used to have... therefor the games have to be designed for *us*". Only, replace 'we' and 'us' with 'I' and 'we', because that's really what is being said.

    It's amazing how many people feel their personal life circumstances, the result of their own life choices, somehow entitles them to special attention and preference, on the level of an entire genre being developed specifically *for them*. I can hardly think of a better example of a self-entitled attitude.

    It's also flawed logic because it implies there weren't people playing EQ1, UO, DAoC, AO, etc. etc.. who were grown up, with jobs, families, careers, and less free time even back then. Except there were. Plenty of them.

    Yet, despite limited time and *far* longer progression arcs... they managed and had a great time along the way. I'd say people back then probably enjoyed their MMO experiences far more than people do now. Not least of all because, by and large, they spent their time actually *experiencing* the game, not trying to rush through it.

    Why is that?

    People "back then" weren't so different from people now. The only difference is back then people logged in to enjoy the moment to moment experience, with friends, or strangers. They weren't fretting every moment they logged in on whether they were leveling "optimally enough" or were completing the content "efficiently enough". They were hanging out with others, doing dungeons, questing, going off on random adventures.. and enjoying the experience as it came.

    Now? People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!! I need to get to level cap now, but all this damn content is getting in my way!".

    People weren't looking to buy xp-boosters, skill-point boosters, level-jump items and such back then. Because they weren't in a hurry.

    It has nothing to do with "people being busy with families and jobs and little time". It has everything to do with people being impatient, wanting their reward *now*, and not wanting to have to spend the time obtaining or earning it.






    Great post.

    Just a couple of things...

    I'm old enough that I never played MMOs until long after university. I have always had a job, children and family obligations while I played my hobby. So the fallacious argument that tries to justify buying accelerated shortcuts on the basis that our time is just too valuable has always rang hollow with me.

    As to "People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!!" that's Kano right there. If you've ever played a new MMO that he also played you'd know this from his posts. That's what he did in Archeage and in BDO. He also takes great pride in hating quests and lore. He could give less of a shit about the world and community since he's 100% focused on leveling faster than you so he can use his gear and level advantage to gank you... it's how he plays. 






    What both of you are completely ignoring is that masses today have so many other optons of online entertainment that didnt exist 15 years ago

    Online streaming (Netflix, Youtube, Amazon, Twitch)

    Social media  - twitter, facebook, instagram etc....

    Steam, GoG etc...

    Online Console games

    F2P online game explosion

    Smartphones

    Mobile games


    Go look at market research on how much less focused and dedicated to a single video game masses are today compared to 10+ years ago

    Night and day difference

    People will jump on a new trend and will jump ship in several weeks - -the impact of social media and smartphones has been huge.

    Dont trust me - go pay eedar to show you their player trends over the years.


    This! I greatly miss those days. Add in steam and you have gamers spread out like never before. Back in the day a big game came out and people lived in it for months of not years, not you have to pre-plan and schedule just to get a group on the same game. Apps like discord are great but they make it even easier to play together, apart. 
    I used to role-play a Warrior Priest now I role-play a writer.
    "Basically if a Ninja Turtle used it, or close to it, I like it."
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 9,920

    TimEisen said:



    DMKano said:





    Iselin said:

















    DMKano said:






















    The more you played the more you progressed, and early games like EQ1 were all about extreme time investment, as the pure subscription model was designed to keep people subbed for as long as possible. The primary mechanic was to make everything take a long time to accomplish.

    Fast forward 15 years, the playerbase grew up have jobs, families and less free time - but more money.













    The entire point of a MMORPG is that it was a long-term, on-going and ever-expanding *hobby*, not a game you finish and walk away from. Yes, it cost money to participate in, but most hobbies do. Saying "they were designed to keep you playing a long time" as though it's a bad thing is missing the point of the genre entirely. If someone steps into a MMORPG and doesn't like how it's designed, that's an indication that they simply aren't a fit for that genre. It's not a problem to be solved. It's simply a matter of "nothing is for everyone".

    As for the last statement, "Fast forward 15 years..." this is a fallacious comment that needs to die already. It's always been disingenuous, for a couple reasons, and remains so. It also rings as incredibly ego-centric and short-sighted. "We've grown up, and *we" don't have the time *we* used to have... therefor the games have to be designed for *us*". Only, replace 'we' and 'us' with 'I' and 'we', because that's really what is being said.

    It's amazing how many people feel their personal life circumstances, the result of their own life choices, somehow entitles them to special attention and preference, on the level of an entire genre being developed specifically *for them*. I can hardly think of a better example of a self-entitled attitude.

    It's also flawed logic because it implies there weren't people playing EQ1, UO, DAoC, AO, etc. etc.. who were grown up, with jobs, families, careers, and less free time even back then. Except there were. Plenty of them.

    Yet, despite limited time and *far* longer progression arcs... they managed and had a great time along the way. I'd say people back then probably enjoyed their MMO experiences far more than people do now. Not least of all because, by and large, they spent their time actually *experiencing* the game, not trying to rush through it.

    Why is that?

    People "back then" weren't so different from people now. The only difference is back then people logged in to enjoy the moment to moment experience, with friends, or strangers. They weren't fretting every moment they logged in on whether they were leveling "optimally enough" or were completing the content "efficiently enough". They were hanging out with others, doing dungeons, questing, going off on random adventures.. and enjoying the experience as it came.

    Now? People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!! I need to get to level cap now, but all this damn content is getting in my way!".

    People weren't looking to buy xp-boosters, skill-point boosters, level-jump items and such back then. Because they weren't in a hurry.

    It has nothing to do with "people being busy with families and jobs and little time". It has everything to do with people being impatient, wanting their reward *now*, and not wanting to have to spend the time obtaining or earning it.








    Great post.

    Just a couple of things...

    I'm old enough that I never played MMOs until long after university. I have always had a job, children and family obligations while I played my hobby. So the fallacious argument that tries to justify buying accelerated shortcuts on the basis that our time is just too valuable has always rang hollow with me.

    As to "People are so caught up in this idea that "I have to reach end game ASAP!! End game is all that matters!!!" that's Kano right there. If you've ever played a new MMO that he also played you'd know this from his posts. That's what he did in Archeage and in BDO. He also takes great pride in hating quests and lore. He could give less of a shit about the world and community since he's 100% focused on leveling faster than you so he can use his gear and level advantage to gank you... it's how he plays. 








    What both of you are completely ignoring is that masses today have so many other optons of online entertainment that didnt exist 15 years ago

    Online streaming (Netflix, Youtube, Amazon, Twitch)

    Social media  - twitter, facebook, instagram etc....

    Steam, GoG etc...

    Online Console games

    F2P online game explosion

    Smartphones

    Mobile games


    Go look at market research on how much less focused and dedicated to a single video game masses are today compared to 10+ years ago

    Night and day difference

    People will jump on a new trend and will jump ship in several weeks - -the impact of social media and smartphones has been huge.

    Dont trust me - go pay eedar to show you their player trends over the years.




    This! I greatly miss those days. Add in steam and you have gamers spread out like never before. Back in the day a big game came out and people lived in it for months of not years, not you have to pre-plan and schedule just to get a group on the same game. Apps like discord are great but they make it even easier to play together, apart. 


    All true and everything but what does this have to do with justifying RMT and accelerated leveling to end game?

    What this is, is an explanation of the waning popularity of the types of games that demand long term commitment... which is pretty obvious to anyone aware of the popularity of MOBAs and shooters in today's gaming environment.

    But this does nothing to convince me that MMORPGs need to change to cater to the more fickle 2017 gamer. That would only be the case for someone deluded enough to believe that MMORPGs should be in direct competition with MOBAs for player attraction and retention - they're not.

    MMORPGs are once again a niche gaming genre just like they have always been. The anomaly in all this was WOW and all the clones that chased WOW numbers during that bried period of time when MMORPGs were the cool hotness with the mainstream gaming public. THAT, was an aberration. Now we're back to normal.

    They're not the sort of games that should have shortcuts, be they RMT shortcuts or not. That's some other genre you're thinking of.
    When you come to a fork on the road, take it.
    You can observe a lot by just watching.
    No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded.

    -- Yogi --
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