CoE plans to allow RMT(gold sellers) during the live game

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Comments

  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,840

    Iselin said:



    Distopia said:





    Iselin said:







    Distopia said:









    Iselin said:


















    It seems many folks playing games today just can't stomach the idea that they can't pay their way to the "endgame" and beyond.

    So now, in the very hobby we use to escape reality and unwind, the stratification along real life socioeconomic status is creeping into the hobby.

    Disapointing.












    Exactly. What I find most troubling is the outright denial that the games are lessened by it.

    I mean... I can understand players resigning themselves to the inevitability of it in modern day games and finding ways to cope with it so that they can still get some enjoyment from the games.

    But it's the arguments that there is nothing wrong with it and that the games have just as much integrity as they used to have without it that I have a hard time stomaching.










    What I find more troublesome is folks acting like this wasn't going on back then, when it was a lucrative underground business, many were buying their way to endgame as well as wins in every single MMO. We're talking the height of sites like IGE here. Don't ban me bro... I'm just mentioning it because of the subject matter here. 












    Other than you attributing that to other people I haven't heard anyone say that it hasn't always existed. But there's quite a difference between an underground market that was actively condemned by the companies and considered a cheat by the vast majority of the player base, to throwing your hands up in the air, saying "everyone does it, so whatever" and openly talking about it in forums as something that doesn't bother you. Or for companies to create their own RMT schemes with intermediary currencies. 

    I don't remember that from those old days.

    Maybe it's just part of the conversion of MMOs into casual solo games (except with the background noise of strangers) why people so openly say these days that it's not something that concerns them. It doesn't concern me either what you do in your single player games.






    I just see it as someone dropping the facade, which IMO it's about time. As I said above I have felt this way since my SWG days long before MMOs turned into "my single player games", where ebayed Jedi or RMT'd dot weapons was as normal as just about anything else you came across. 




    Dropping the facade and embracing it are two different things though, aren't they?

    Maybe you and I hung out in different crowds. All the time I spent in Asheron's Call and DAoC I never heard anyone admit to having bought a character or item or gold on Ebay or anywhere else although I'm very aware that those listings were there.

    First time I ever heard someone openly admit buying gold was in WOW and he was kicked out of our guild lol.... although I admit, many of us felt sorry for him and thought that was too harsh: being laughed at was enough punishment.

    Of course once the companies themselves started doing the selling the gamer's attitude toward RMT was bound to change don't you think?

    I can't believe you're actually trying to argue that things are the same today as they were 15 years ago.


    Hell, I play a DAOC freeshard that bans people for having more than one account....or botting, or speed hacking or sometimes for just being extra rude.

    If these guys can keep up the good fight I expect a company I pay money to be able to do likewise.

    You never surrender to the terrorists.....no matter the cost. 

    Moral compasses are so broken these days....
    Asm0deus

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon




  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,524

    Kyleran said:



    Iselin said:





    Distopia said:







    Iselin said:









    Distopia said:











    Iselin said:





















    It seems many folks playing games today just can't stomach the idea that they can't pay their way to the "endgame" and beyond.

    So now, in the very hobby we use to escape reality and unwind, the stratification along real life socioeconomic status is creeping into the hobby.

    Disapointing.














    Exactly. What I find most troubling is the outright denial that the games are lessened by it.

    I mean... I can understand players resigning themselves to the inevitability of it in modern day games and finding ways to cope with it so that they can still get some enjoyment from the games.

    But it's the arguments that there is nothing wrong with it and that the games have just as much integrity as they used to have without it that I have a hard time stomaching.












    What I find more troublesome is folks acting like this wasn't going on back then, when it was a lucrative underground business, many were buying their way to endgame as well as wins in every single MMO. We're talking the height of sites like IGE here. Don't ban me bro... I'm just mentioning it because of the subject matter here. 














    Other than you attributing that to other people I haven't heard anyone say that it hasn't always existed. But there's quite a difference between an underground market that was actively condemned by the companies and considered a cheat by the vast majority of the player base, to throwing your hands up in the air, saying "everyone does it, so whatever" and openly talking about it in forums as something that doesn't bother you. Or for companies to create their own RMT schemes with intermediary currencies. 

    I don't remember that from those old days.

    Maybe it's just part of the conversion of MMOs into casual solo games (except with the background noise of strangers) why people so openly say these days that it's not something that concerns them. It doesn't concern me either what you do in your single player games.








    I just see it as someone dropping the facade, which IMO it's about time. As I said above I have felt this way since my SWG days long before MMOs turned into "my single player games", where ebayed Jedi or RMT'd dot weapons was as normal as just about anything else you came across. 






    Dropping the facade and embracing it are two different things though, aren't they?

    Maybe you and I hung out in different crowds. All the time I spent in Asheron's Call and DAoC I never heard anyone admit to having bought a character or item or gold on Ebay or anywhere else although I'm very aware that those listings were there.

    First time I ever heard someone openly admit buying gold was in WOW and he was kicked out of our guild lol.... although I admit, many of us felt sorry for him and thought that was too harsh: being laughed at was enough punishment.

    Of course once the companies themselves started doing the selling the gamer's attitude toward RMT was bound to change don't you think?

    I can't believe you're actually trying to argue that things are the same today as they were 15 years ago.




    Hell, I play a DAOC freeshard that bans people for having more than one account....or botting, or speed hacking or sometimes for just being extra rude.

    If these guys can keep up the good fight I expect a company I pay money to be able to do likewise.

    You never surrender to the terrorists.....no matter the cost. 

    Moral compasses are so broken these days....


    Could not agree more... on all points.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173
    edited May 4




    Iselin said:











    Dropping the facade and embracing it are two different things though, aren't they?

    Maybe you and I hung out in different crowds. All the time I spent in Asheron's Call and DAoC I never heard anyone admit to having bought a character or item or gold on Ebay or anywhere else although I'm very aware that those listings were there.

    First time I ever heard someone openly admit buying gold was in WOW and he was kicked out of our guild lol.... although I admit, many of us felt sorry for him and thought that was too harsh: being laughed at was enough punishment.

    Of course once the companies themselves started doing the selling the gamer's attitude toward RMT was bound to change don't you think?

    I can't believe you're actually trying to argue that things are the same today as they were 15 years ago.








    I never heard about it in DAOC either, it wasn't until I got heavily involved in SWG's PVP community that I really found out how normal it was there ( I had never even heard of IGE until then(. Most of the people I knew who had Jedi either had the account given to them or bought it. Few frowned on them for that, a lot the popular peeps did it. As long as they played well no one cared. Those who didn't play well was a different story...

    As for things being different, well that depends on what you mean, many games today have binded items so that changes things in itself. As for how many accounts are passed around on the blackmarket, I don't know I'm not as deeply involved in any gaming communities today outside of this forum. As for legal RMT, most of it is cosmetic, at least in the west. In other cases it's problematic sure, like games tying ownership to those who can pay. Yet that kills most of those games in itself. So it's a problem that solves itself.

    As for the blackmarket in general, I don't know how prevalent that is today. I lost my curiosity about that long ago.  

    SO in short in some ways things are more controlled today, not many AAA games have huge PVP crowds either, so that makes it even less likely to be a topic of concern for those games. 

    What is still the same though is the mindset of the overall players IMO. YOu have folks who think cheating makes the whole experience pointless (how I feel about it as well) and play by the book, you have those who only care about a certain aspect and cheat their way there (leveling services, buying toons legally, etc...). Honestly that's a multi-layered question.

    It's also apples to oranges in terms of overall types of games available. We'll see how different it really is when these KS games hit the market, as they're more in line with games of the past. 




    Post edited by Distopia on

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,273

    Distopia said:





    Iselin said:











    Dropping the facade and embracing it are two different things though, aren't they?

    Maybe you and I hung out in different crowds. All the time I spent in Asheron's Call and DAoC I never heard anyone admit to having bought a character or item or gold on Ebay or anywhere else although I'm very aware that those listings were there.

    First time I ever heard someone openly admit buying gold was in WOW and he was kicked out of our guild lol.... although I admit, many of us felt sorry for him and thought that was too harsh: being laughed at was enough punishment.

    Of course once the companies themselves started doing the selling the gamer's attitude toward RMT was bound to change don't you think?

    I can't believe you're actually trying to argue that things are the same today as they were 15 years ago.








    I never heard about it in DAOC either, it wasn't until I got heavily involved in SWG's PVP community that I really found out how normal it was there ( I had never even heard of IGE until then(. Most of the people I knew who had Jedi either had the account given to them or bought it. Few frowned on them for that, a lot the popular peeps did it. As long as they played well no one cared. Those who didn't play well was a different story...

    As for things being different, well that depends on what you mean, many games today have binded items so that changes things in itself. As for how many accounts are passed around on the blackmarket, I don't know I'm not as deeply involved in any gaming communities today outside of this forum. As for legal RMT, most of it is cosmetic, at least in the west. In other cases it's problematic sure, like games tying ownership to those who can pay. Yet that kills most of those games in itself. So it's a problem that solves itself.

    As for the blackmarket in general, I don't know how prevalent that is today. I lost my curiosity about that long ago.  

    SO in short in some ways things are more controlled today, not many AAA games have huge PVP crowds either, so that makes it even less likely to be a topic of concern for those games. 

    What is still the same though is the mindset of the overall players IMO. YOu have folks who think cheating makes the whole experience pointless (how I feel about it as well) and play by the book, you have those who only care about a certain aspect and cheat their way there (leveling services, buying toons legally, etc...). Honestly that's a multi-layered question.

    It's also apples to oranges in terms overall types of games available. We'll see how different it really is when these KS games hit the market, as they're more in line with games of the past. 






    When I referred to the companies doing it I wasn't thinking of cash shops and cosmetic items. I was thinking more of the schemes where you can buy items from a cash shop and then sell it in game for gold. I.e. gold sales which has always been the most common RMT practice. It's just a different way of selling gold that some seem to think is somehow sanitized by the two step process.

    Many people also defend that while still bashing the black market gold sellers on the basis that the cash is going to the game so it's a good thing for everyone... totally ignoring the issue that it's not doing the concept of fair play or the game's integrity any good.

    And yes, the more competitive the environment, the worse it is for the game.
    You say you never compromise
    With the mystery tramp, but now you realize
    He's not selling any alibis
    As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
    And say "Do you want to make a deal?"
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173
    edited May 4


    Kyleran said:








    Hell, I play a DAOC freeshard that bans people for having more than one account....or botting, or speed hacking or sometimes for just being extra rude.

    If these guys can keep up the good fight I expect a company I pay money to be able to do likewise.

    You never surrender to the terrorists.....no matter the cost. 

    Moral compasses are so broken these days....




    Freeshards are typically more conformed to the specific group responsible for it. The SWG servers are also that way I visit. Everyone is allowed only 1 account as an example. Yet they're more lax in terms of the grind to get to endgame as they're mostly PVP focused. 

    That said that's an apples and oranges comparison, Freeshards are typically one server with a couple thousand players. A much easier environment to police.

    In terms of black market that's another subject entirely as there usually isn't even enough of an audience or traffic to warrant the practice. WOW servers may be a different story though. 

    I certainly hope your "moral compasses" remark wasn't toward me though, as I never said I condone the practice, as I don't at all. I just accept the reality of it existing.






    Post edited by Distopia on

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173

    Iselin said:








    When I referred to the companies doing it I wasn't thinking of cash shops and cosmetic items. I was thinking more of the schemes where you can buy items from a cash shop and then sell it in game for gold. I.e. gold sales which has always been the most common RMT practice. It's just a different way of selling gold that some seem to think is somehow sanitized by the two step process.

    Many people also defend that while still bashing the black market gold sellers on the basis that the cash is going to the game so it's a good thing for everyone... totally ignoring the issue that it's not doing the concept of fair play or the game's integrity any good.

    And yes, the more competitive the environment, the worse it is for the game.


    I see your point about gold sales, it is the same at least as far as integrity of the economy goes... if a person frowns on one thing they should the other. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 13,184
    I already saw the true face of this developer by about the second week of threads.One can ALWAYS find an EXCUSE to support some kind of agenda,except i don't buy excuses ,i listen to reason and determine if it is best for a game.

    About 3 months ago i posted as video on the RMT king,the MAIN guy.To break it down simply,even he knows RMT is really bad for gaming  but offers a service to make a good living from it.The real truth is that devs also know it does not belong and SHOULD be banned from the games but do NOT want to afford any effort or cost to battle it.Instead they have now turned to seeing MORE profit to be made and could likely even partner up to make money from it as well.For years Eve has been scrutinized on the ISK front.
    Of course it is their game to do as they please but how lawful can it be scrutinized?You think there is any tax money being paid,i doubt it if very little.

    This game like so many did not just magically show up because someone on this site thought ,hmmm great game,it showed up to start advertising it's incoming crowd funding agenda.

    Yeah i was sold until that second week ,then it is like ok forget this game not a game i want to support.I can add Crowfall to that list,SOTA,Blizzard games and even Square Enix games of late,not much we can trust from this site anymore,it is 100% an agenda about making money.

    So much for gaming passion.At least some here still have a passion to see awesome games and not just endorse everything thrown in our face.I will continue to take note if a game looks promising,as i said COE looked promising,and then Ashes also looked promising but the true face  eventually shows and instead of supporting them,i will block those scammy developers right off my list.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 15,012

    Distopia said:



    Iselin said:





    Distopia said:







    Iselin said:















    It seems many folks playing games today just can't stomach the idea that they can't pay their way to the "endgame" and beyond.

    So now, in the very hobby we use to escape reality and unwind, the stratification along real life socioeconomic status is creeping into the hobby.

    Disapointing.










    Exactly. What I find most troubling is the outright denial that the games are lessened by it.

    I mean... I can understand players resigning themselves to the inevitability of it in modern day games and finding ways to cope with it so that they can still get some enjoyment from the games.

    But it's the arguments that there is nothing wrong with it and that the games have just as much integrity as they used to have without it that I have a hard time stomaching.








    What I find more troublesome is folks acting like this wasn't going on back then, when it was a lucrative underground business, many were buying their way to endgame as well as wins in every single MMO. We're talking the height of sites like IGE here. Don't ban me bro... I'm just mentioning it because of the subject matter here. 










    Other than you attributing that to other people I haven't heard anyone say that it hasn't always existed. But there's quite a difference between an underground market that was actively condemned by the companies and considered a cheat by the vast majority of the player base, to throwing your hands up in the air, saying "everyone does it, so whatever" and openly talking about it in forums as something that doesn't bother you. Or for companies to create their own RMT schemes with intermediary currencies. 

    I don't remember that from those old days.

    Maybe it's just part of the conversion of MMOs into casual solo games (except with the background noise of strangers) why people so openly say these days that it's not something that concerns them. It doesn't concern me either what you do in your single player games.




    I just see it as someone dropping the facade, which IMO it's about time. As I said above I have felt this way since my SWG days long before MMOs turned into "my single player games", where ebayed Jedi or RMT'd dot weapons was as normal as just about anything else you came across. 


    The problem is you like truth and transparency. Most people only like or appreciate honesty when it fits the narrative they want to hear.

    If Caspian would have said something to the effect that they hate rmt, and they're going to spend a ton of money and resources combating rmt, then my guess is people would be happy with that answer even though it's not honest or any more effective than not wasting resources on it.

    My guess is then the indignant narrative would shift to what an unrealistic dreamer he is thinking his team could possibly combat the RMT giant with such meager funding. See there's always a way to take the negative track. ;) This project is screwed no matter what choices they make, much like starship jpeg factory, they'll never be given a pass no matter what.
    The artist or album content may be offensive or controversial.
    Avatar Artist: Howard Blake, Peter Auty (vocalist)
    Album: The Snowman
    Featured Tracks: Walking in the Air
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 15,012

    Kyleran said:



    Iselin said:





    Distopia said:







    Iselin said:









    Distopia said:











    Iselin said:





















    It seems many folks playing games today just can't stomach the idea that they can't pay their way to the "endgame" and beyond.

    So now, in the very hobby we use to escape reality and unwind, the stratification along real life socioeconomic status is creeping into the hobby.

    Disapointing.














    Exactly. What I find most troubling is the outright denial that the games are lessened by it.

    I mean... I can understand players resigning themselves to the inevitability of it in modern day games and finding ways to cope with it so that they can still get some enjoyment from the games.

    But it's the arguments that there is nothing wrong with it and that the games have just as much integrity as they used to have without it that I have a hard time stomaching.












    What I find more troublesome is folks acting like this wasn't going on back then, when it was a lucrative underground business, many were buying their way to endgame as well as wins in every single MMO. We're talking the height of sites like IGE here. Don't ban me bro... I'm just mentioning it because of the subject matter here. 














    Other than you attributing that to other people I haven't heard anyone say that it hasn't always existed. But there's quite a difference between an underground market that was actively condemned by the companies and considered a cheat by the vast majority of the player base, to throwing your hands up in the air, saying "everyone does it, so whatever" and openly talking about it in forums as something that doesn't bother you. Or for companies to create their own RMT schemes with intermediary currencies. 

    I don't remember that from those old days.

    Maybe it's just part of the conversion of MMOs into casual solo games (except with the background noise of strangers) why people so openly say these days that it's not something that concerns them. It doesn't concern me either what you do in your single player games.








    I just see it as someone dropping the facade, which IMO it's about time. As I said above I have felt this way since my SWG days long before MMOs turned into "my single player games", where ebayed Jedi or RMT'd dot weapons was as normal as just about anything else you came across. 






    Dropping the facade and embracing it are two different things though, aren't they?

    Maybe you and I hung out in different crowds. All the time I spent in Asheron's Call and DAoC I never heard anyone admit to having bought a character or item or gold on Ebay or anywhere else although I'm very aware that those listings were there.

    First time I ever heard someone openly admit buying gold was in WOW and he was kicked out of our guild lol.... although I admit, many of us felt sorry for him and thought that was too harsh: being laughed at was enough punishment.

    Of course once the companies themselves started doing the selling the gamer's attitude toward RMT was bound to change don't you think?

    I can't believe you're actually trying to argue that things are the same today as they were 15 years ago.




    Hell, I play a DAOC freeshard that bans people for having more than one account....or botting, or speed hacking or sometimes for just being extra rude.

    If these guys can keep up the good fight I expect a company I pay money to be able to do likewise.

    You never surrender to the terrorists.....no matter the cost. 

    Moral compasses are so broken these days....


    That must be tough on them to ban revenue streams that endanger future content development. ;)
    The artist or album content may be offensive or controversial.
    Avatar Artist: Howard Blake, Peter Auty (vocalist)
    Album: The Snowman
    Featured Tracks: Walking in the Air
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,840

    Torval said:



    Kyleran said:





    Iselin said:







    Distopia said:









    Iselin said:











    Distopia said:













    Iselin said:
























    It seems many folks playing games today just can't stomach the idea that they can't pay their way to the "endgame" and beyond.

    So now, in the very hobby we use to escape reality and unwind, the stratification along real life socioeconomic status is creeping into the hobby.

    Disapointing.
















    Exactly. What I find most troubling is the outright denial that the games are lessened by it.

    I mean... I can understand players resigning themselves to the inevitability of it in modern day games and finding ways to cope with it so that they can still get some enjoyment from the games.

    But it's the arguments that there is nothing wrong with it and that the games have just as much integrity as they used to have without it that I have a hard time stomaching.














    What I find more troublesome is folks acting like this wasn't going on back then, when it was a lucrative underground business, many were buying their way to endgame as well as wins in every single MMO. We're talking the height of sites like IGE here. Don't ban me bro... I'm just mentioning it because of the subject matter here. 
















    Other than you attributing that to other people I haven't heard anyone say that it hasn't always existed. But there's quite a difference between an underground market that was actively condemned by the companies and considered a cheat by the vast majority of the player base, to throwing your hands up in the air, saying "everyone does it, so whatever" and openly talking about it in forums as something that doesn't bother you. Or for companies to create their own RMT schemes with intermediary currencies. 

    I don't remember that from those old days.

    Maybe it's just part of the conversion of MMOs into casual solo games (except with the background noise of strangers) why people so openly say these days that it's not something that concerns them. It doesn't concern me either what you do in your single player games.










    I just see it as someone dropping the facade, which IMO it's about time. As I said above I have felt this way since my SWG days long before MMOs turned into "my single player games", where ebayed Jedi or RMT'd dot weapons was as normal as just about anything else you came across. 








    Dropping the facade and embracing it are two different things though, aren't they?

    Maybe you and I hung out in different crowds. All the time I spent in Asheron's Call and DAoC I never heard anyone admit to having bought a character or item or gold on Ebay or anywhere else although I'm very aware that those listings were there.

    First time I ever heard someone openly admit buying gold was in WOW and he was kicked out of our guild lol.... although I admit, many of us felt sorry for him and thought that was too harsh: being laughed at was enough punishment.

    Of course once the companies themselves started doing the selling the gamer's attitude toward RMT was bound to change don't you think?

    I can't believe you're actually trying to argue that things are the same today as they were 15 years ago.






    Hell, I play a DAOC freeshard that bans people for having more than one account....or botting, or speed hacking or sometimes for just being extra rude.

    If these guys can keep up the good fight I expect a company I pay money to be able to do likewise.

    You never surrender to the terrorists.....no matter the cost. 

    Moral compasses are so broken these days....




    That must be tough on them to ban revenue streams that endanger future content development. ;)


    That would be the point, perhaps it isn't a case of not being able to stop rmt'ers but more because of concern over the bottom line.


    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon




  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,273

    Torval said:

     This project is screwed no matter what choices they make, much like starship jpeg factory, they'll never be given a pass no matter what.


    Thing is when there's no game to play, all we have is Caspian's verbal farts to go by... usually couched in "depending on what my lawyer says" disclaimers.

    Contrast that with the things that the CU, Crowfall or Ashes developers say and that should tell you all you need to know about why COE gets very few passes. 
    You say you never compromise
    With the mystery tramp, but now you realize
    He's not selling any alibis
    As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
    And say "Do you want to make a deal?"
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,524

    Torval said:



    The problem is you like truth and transparency. Most people only like or appreciate honesty when it fits the narrative they want to hear.

    If Caspian would have said something to the effect that they hate rmt, and they're going to spend a ton of money and resources combating rmt, then my guess is people would be happy with that answer even though it's not honest or any more effective than not wasting resources on it.

    My guess is then the indignant narrative would shift to what an unrealistic dreamer he is thinking his team could possibly combat the RMT giant with such meager funding. See there's always a way to take the negative track. ;) This project is screwed no matter what choices they make, much like starship jpeg factory, they'll never be given a pass no matter what.


    Except of course what he actually called RMT was a WIN-WIN.  He didn't just say it was something they'd have to live it... he in essence said it was a GOOD THING. There is no ambiguity here.  There is no straw-man about not having resources to combat it.  He literally called it a WIN-WIN situation.
     
    Which of course makes sense because it allows his whales to continue to use their real cash to stay atop their insurmountable mountain of privilege. 


    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 10,938
    edited May 5
    Slapshot1188 said:
    ... he in essence said it was a GOOD THING.
    And it indeed is.

    It is only these boards and posters with awkwardly twisted perception that people spending money on product you sell is a bad thing.
    Post edited by Gdemami on
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,173




    Torval said:





    The problem is you like truth and transparency. Most people only like or appreciate honesty when it fits the narrative they want to hear.

    If Caspian would have said something to the effect that they hate rmt, and they're going to spend a ton of money and resources combating rmt, then my guess is people would be happy with that answer even though it's not honest or any more effective than not wasting resources on it.

    My guess is then the indignant narrative would shift to what an unrealistic dreamer he is thinking his team could possibly combat the RMT giant with such meager funding. See there's always a way to take the negative track. ;) This project is screwed no matter what choices they make, much like starship jpeg factory, they'll never be given a pass no matter what.




    Except of course what he actually called RMT was a WIN-WIN.  He didn't just say it was something they'd have to live it... he in essence said it was a GOOD THING. There is no ambiguity here.  There is no straw-man about not having resources to combat it.  He literally called it a WIN-WIN situation.
     
    Which of course makes sense because it allows his whales to continue to use their real cash to stay atop their insurmountable mountain of privilege. 




    To be fair that statement was in regard to people who put as much value in money as time. In simpler terms those who don't have the time to play yet the money to spend. Sure that leaves an entire spectrum of players saying what they're saying here, yet it saves the company funds in trying and failing to please those people from the get go. If they want that environment, they want it, so what is there to do for those opposed but skip it?

    In a way it's not unlike Pantheon's approach to cater to groupers, leaving soloers to fend on the little they can. It's just a less popular approach than that. AT least in this type of community. 


    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,273


    You say you never compromise
    With the mystery tramp, but now you realize
    He's not selling any alibis
    As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
    And say "Do you want to make a deal?"
  • KonfessKonfess Dallas, TXMember RarePosts: 1,614
    The developers said the could either spend more money trying to find and stop the people selling in game items on ebay or where ever.  Or they could support it, the easiest alternative.  Stopping RMT is like playing hide and seek with five people over the entire United States.  Yeah, it can't be done.  The Joke is on anyone that thinks RMT can be prevented by any developer, especially one that doesn't have the budget of Blizzard.  Blizzard only comes close to preventing RMT, and they know it.  So I'll end by quoting @Torval, "If players didn't buy gold devs wouldn't have to fight it"

    Pardon any spelling errors
    Konfess your cyns and some maybe forgiven
    Boy: Why can't I talk to Him?
    Mom: We don't talk to Priests.
    As if it could exist, without being payed for.
    F2P means you get what you paid for. Pay nothing, get nothing.
    Even telemarketers wouldn't think that.

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILMember EpicPosts: 6,197
    [Caspian - Today at 9:35 PM @Rahl Draikskorn Ⓥ Unless my attorney says otherwise, we're not going to stop you.]

    Interesting.  Not a done deal, just an option being looked into at this point.  So it may not happen anyways...

    "Change is the only constant."


  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 10,273


    [Caspian - Today at 9:35 PM @Rahl Draikskorn Ⓥ Unless my attorney says otherwise, we're not going to stop you.]

    Interesting.  Not a done deal, just an option being looked into at this point.  So it may not happen anyways...


    For his sake, I hope Gdemami is not his attorney.
    You say you never compromise
    With the mystery tramp, but now you realize
    He's not selling any alibis
    As you stare into the vacuum of his eyes
    And say "Do you want to make a deal?"
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,524
    edited May 5


    Kyleran said:








    WoW IP Permabans gold sellers and everyone realm has thousands of them spamming....... if a multi-billion dollar title cannot stop them what can a single million dollar company do? It's a waste of resources.

    They can't even spam in CoE.....everything is proximity. So your gonna spam to about 5 people then probably get dropped because OPEN PVP.

    Slapshot's constant slander is unreal. Do you not have a life.






    You sure you know what the word slander means?

    Slapshot posted something that was true, they are not going to fight RMT. 

    He also said it was a game about resource and territory control. Again true.

    So where was the slander?




    Whats funny is that one of the highly Tiered players (Tier 11 King) actually had to explain that... TWICE to the guy (because he referenced this thread there to continue the rant).   It was actually fairly amusing:


    For it to be defamation the statement in question has to be false and presented as fact rather than opinion. The important points here is that the commenters MMORPG.com, especially in the linked thread, have stated a true fact - that SbS isn't gonna hunt down RMTs and have stated their opinions - that this is a bad thing to do. Nowhere have they written anything defamatory, which even if they had would be libellous, not slanderous.
    People who get shit wrong like this and then spout off about it make the community look dumb. If you're going to accuse someone of a rather serious crime please at least know what you're trying to accuse them of.
    -----
    Actually, I read the thread quite carefully before posting, the only defamatory statement in that thread is the one accusing the OP of slander, everything else is covered under the opinion defence. Their opinions may be misinformed, and you and I may disagree with them but the statements they make are valid and non-defamatory.
    -----

    Kudos to the guy, who while obviously a big supporter (with I assume at least $10,000 invested) was able to provide some much needed sanity over there.



    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • OrdanskaOrdanska Member CommonPosts: 16
    I registered an account to discuss one thing with the haters.

    Around a year ago I came to these forums and defended COE and a year later on the anniversary of the Kickstarter I have had these forums brought to my attention again for yet again all the wrong reasons.

    @Slapshot1188

    Why are you still following the game?
    A year ago you were moaning about it, yet you follow the forums more than me a baron pledged fan does. (By the way I'm giving my barony away before anyone moans I am ptw)
    Why? Why are you still watching it indepth

    If you hate the game and developers as much as your posts make it sound like you why do you follow it so indepth.

    Is it more your a fan of the game but you want to try and force a small developer to make a game of your wishes rather than the game they are planning to make?

    Because I can tell you it won't work.

    Instead why don't you either watch, wait and see or stop calling on a game you obviously don't like and move on to find a game you want to play.
    Or
    If there is no game that's your ideal do what the creators of soulbound did, form your own game company and make the game of your dreams???
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshMember RarePosts: 6,413
    Sounds legit.
  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonMember RarePosts: 1,547
    @Ordanska so presumably you got banned last  time, hence the new account?

    "brought to my attention ..... for all the wrong reasons"

    So are you some sort of official hall monitor or prefect charge by someone to ensure the good behavior of all us plebes who have the audacity to talk about CoE without permission and in a derogatory way?

    Apologies for my sarcasm, but you are coming across, to me at least, as a complete and utter joke. 
  • Azrael_AntaryonAzrael_Antaryon Member UncommonPosts: 40
    @Slapshot1188 If you are quoting from the official site at least quote the relevant part instead of a semantical side argument.

    https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/18980/a-quick-heads-up-about-mmorpgcom-forum?page=8#post202514

    Caspian: Hey Folks,
    Let me go ahead and put this topic to bed. The forum post on MMORPG was a copy/paste from a forum post here on our forums from back in December (6 months ago). It was cleverly posted to look like a recent discussion when in fact it was not.
    As to the original post here on our forums, that was a quote from a conversation happening in Discord that was taken out of context, and probably shouldn't have been posted to the forums in the first place - at least not without more context.
    That said, I think the community members that have responded to this thread have done a fantastic job putting the the thread into the original context, which is this:
    Gold/Item sellers exist because they can. You can address the problem one of two ways:
    1) Accept that the design of your game allows/encourages gold farmers, and then spend countless resources trying to track them down and enforce a ToS.
    or
    2) Address the problem of gold farming via the design and mechanics of your game.
    The problem with #1 is that for a game to encourage item/gold farming it must both provide an opportunity cost for choosing to achieve your goals the "right" way, vs. purchasing through third party sellers, and it must prevent the in-game players from dealing with gold farmers.
    Our goal has always been to address the problem of gold/item selling by by giving players a way to deal with gold-sellers in-game, and by structuring the economy and system of progression such that gold-farming in its usual sense holds little value in CoE.
    If you're not convinced, think about the activities most gold-farmers would perform in order to "farm gold" and ask yourself whether those activities make any sense in this game.
    At the point where farming becomes the most effective way to "farm," it's no longer an issue and is just part of the economy.
  • OrdanskaOrdanska Member CommonPosts: 16
    edited May 5
    @craftseeker

    Yes I did because I allowed people to bait me and inthe the tired state I was in at that time (new baby) I responded and some people obviously found my responses insulting.
    That was probably my bad for allowing myself to type when mad.



    Now I came back to ask snapshot that one question.
     I'm not bothered about these forums or the people in them, I was intrigued why snapshot is still following a game after a year that he obviously hates.

    *Edit*
    If you want to hate COE that's your choice, that doesn't bother me. But following a game for a year whilst hating seems strange. 
    That's like eating sprouts for a year whilst saying you don't like them...
    Post edited by Ordanska on
  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshMember RarePosts: 6,413

    Ordanska said:

    @craftseeker

    Yes I did because I allowed people to bait me and inthe the tired state I was in at that time (new baby) I responded and some people obviously found my responses insulting.
    That was probably my bad for allowing myself to type when mad.



    Now I came back to ask snapshot that one question.
     I'm not bothered about these forums or the people in them, I was intrigued why snapshot is still following a game after a year that he obviously hates.


    How can you not understand the draw of following something you hate?
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