CoE plans to allow RMT(gold sellers) during the live game

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Comments

  • MrTugglesMrTuggles bolivar, OHMember UncommonPosts: 134
    edited May 10






    There are 11,000 people that have pledged.  Even if I accept your personal claim at face value, surely you must admit that a chunk of people bought all this stuff to get an edge.  What exactly do you think the Goons plan to do?  








    I have put about 1000$ into the game so far. Bought a count package during kickstarter campaign, and bought a bunch of EP to give myself an edge, but an edge in what?

    You have to take into consideration that this game is on par with the way Eve works, but your character can permanently die. The game is full loot, and everything is player made. If you look at the EP store and see you can buy all that good legendary stuff at 100x the price of a normal item and then realize that you can lose that item that just cost you 200$ you think twice about doing it. Or how about buying some legendary pets at 5k EP each (roughly $333 each). Those pets will quite literally die and disappear. Also, we have absolutely zero information on the power disparity between items. We don't know if a legendary item is 100x better than a normal item or .005% better. In fact, we have almost zero concrete information about the game in its entirety. We know the concept, that they have a few working demos, and that is about it.  
    Post edited by MrTuggles on
    Asm0deusOctagon7711
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 9,927

    MrTuggles said:

     Also, we have absolutely zero information on the power disparity between items. We don't know if a legendary item is 100x better than a normal item or .005% better. In fact, we have almost zero concrete information about the game in its entirety.


    In other words, you don't really know what you're buying, but you guys are buying it anyway... gotta love KS MMO fans.
    NyteWytchAsm0deusRusqueOctagon7711
    When you come to a fork on the road, take it.
    You can observe a lot by just watching.
    No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded.

    -- Yogi --
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,106

    Gdemami said:

    If RMT 3rd parties were not using bots, stolen CC, hacked player accounts, etc. they would likely wouldn't care since there would be no (worthwhile) harm done to the company and the game.


    You're probably right there, as that's what draws the communities attention to it. Especially bots and hacking, there's also spam messages and mail as well. 

    Without those things the general community would be more or less oblivious to it. Hence the devs would feel no need to act. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MrTugglesMrTuggles bolivar, OHMember UncommonPosts: 134

    Iselin said:



    MrTuggles said:


     Also, we have absolutely zero information on the power disparity between items. We don't know if a legendary item is 100x better than a normal item or .005% better. In fact, we have almost zero concrete information about the game in its entirety.




    In other words, you don't really know what you're buying, but you guys are buying it anyway... gotta love KS MMO fans.



    I am buying into the concept of the game because it checks all the boxes of what I've been waiting for in an mmo since vanilla UO. If it releases and meets half of the expectations I have I will be happy.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,197

    MrTuggles said:









    There are 11,000 people that have pledged.  Even if I accept your personal claim at face value, surely you must admit that a chunk of people bought all this stuff to get an edge.  What exactly do you think the Goons plan to do?  










    I have put about 1000$ into the game so far. Bought a count package during kickstarter campaign, and bought a bunch of EP to give myself an edge, but an edge in what?

    You have to take into consideration that this game is on par with the way Eve works, but your character can permanently die. The game is full loot, and everything is player made. If you look at the EP store and see you can buy all that good legendary stuff at 100x the price of a normal item and then realize that you can lose that item that just cost you 200$ you think twice about doing it. Or how about buying some legendary pets at 5k EP each (roughly $333 each). Those pets will quite literally die and disappear. Also, we have absolutely zero information on the power disparity between items. We don't know if a legendary item is 100x better than a normal item or .005% better. In fact, we have almost zero concrete information about the game in its entirety. We know the concept, that they have a few working demos, and that is about it.  


    So you use an edge case to try and create some question about the advantage. OK how about these?

    I buy myself a Legendary castle?
    I buy myself some Legendary technology schools/buildings?
    I buy myself some Legendary mounts and then breed them?

    Your argument is summed up by "Using real money to buy better stuff is not an advantage", which of course.. is silly.

    Also the whole permadeath thing is a red-herring as you simply (of course) buy another soul and transfer all your stuff to them, including inheritance of your title and lands.

    GdemamiOctagon7711Asm0deus

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 603
    I don't think it really matters at this point. The anti-p2w people have long discarded this game from their watchlist, the devs might as well go all in.

    In related news, bringing a bazooka to a knife fight is not an unfair advantage. Because theoretically you could step on a banana peel, lose your footing and blow yourself up while doing a summersault.

    Asm0deusGdemamiOctagon7711
  • GdemamiGdemami Member EpicPosts: 10,778

    Distopia said:
    You're probably right there, as that's what draws the communities attention to it.


    'Community attention' would rather fall under 'not  worthwhile' category.

    I am talking about real, tangible damage that most players won't ever notice - increased server and infrastructure load caused by botting, dealing with legal and CS matters related to account and billing issues, etc.
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,197

    Gaendric said:

    I don't think it really matters at this point. The anti-p2w people have long discarded this game from their watchlist, the devs might as well go all in.

    In related news, bringing a bazooka to a knife fight is not an unfair advantage. Because theoretically you could step on a banana peel, lose your footing and blow yourself up while doing a summersault.



    Another false analogy.  You don't have to choose between a knife or a bazooka.  Here, the equivalent is being able to buy a knife, sword, gun, machine gun, bazooka, tank, and hire a team of body guards.

    Gdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • RhimeRhime Kelowna, BCMember UncommonPosts: 245

    MrTuggles said:



    Iselin said:





    MrTuggles said:



     Also, we have absolutely zero information on the power disparity between items. We don't know if a legendary item is 100x better than a normal item or .005% better. In fact, we have almost zero concrete information about the game in its entirety.






    In other words, you don't really know what you're buying, but you guys are buying it anyway... gotta love KS MMO fans.





    I am buying into the concept of the game because it checks all the boxes of what I've been waiting for in an mmo since vanilla UO. If it releases and meets half of the expectations I have I will be happy.


    So has Ashes of Creation without the RMT bullshit. That's where I put my money.
  • MrTugglesMrTuggles bolivar, OHMember UncommonPosts: 134

    Rhime said:



    MrTuggles said:





    Iselin said:







    MrTuggles said:




     Also, we have absolutely zero information on the power disparity between items. We don't know if a legendary item is 100x better than a normal item or .005% better. In fact, we have almost zero concrete information about the game in its entirety.








    In other words, you don't really know what you're buying, but you guys are buying it anyway... gotta love KS MMO fans.







    I am buying into the concept of the game because it checks all the boxes of what I've been waiting for in an mmo since vanilla UO. If it releases and meets half of the expectations I have I will be happy.




    So has Ashes of Creation without the RMT bullshit. That's where I put my money.




    I backed that game as well at the life time sub level until I thought long and hard about another themepark game. Canceled my pledge and put it back into CoE. Ashes of creation does look great, the node system seems interesting, but in the end I fear it will just be another one of those endless gear grinds where everyone plays a meta build with the same skills, so on and so forth.
     
    CoE is attempting to make a living world that is molded by the player base. Anything other than basic items are going to be crafted by players. Items/pets will decay and break/die. Your character can die, lose their title, etc, etc, etc. Have a manor that you got when you took over a mayor/baron city? Guess what, you can lose it just like the last guy did.

    Even with all the hate you guys are spewing out about the game I am still pretty excited for how the game appears to be shaping up.
  • MaggonMaggon CopenhagenMember UncommonPosts: 324
    Couldnt whoever makes the laws of a city, or land or whatever just come up with a law that states that one is not allowed to advertise for RMT or some shit, and then have it punishable by drowning, or whatever - that would effectively just kill the account outright no ? lol...
  • RhimeRhime Kelowna, BCMember UncommonPosts: 245




    Rhime said:





    MrTuggles said:







    Iselin said:









    MrTuggles said:





     Also, we have absolutely zero information on the power disparity between items. We don't know if a legendary item is 100x better than a normal item or .005% better. In fact, we have almost zero concrete information about the game in its entirety.










    In other words, you don't really know what you're buying, but you guys are buying it anyway... gotta love KS MMO fans.









    I am buying into the concept of the game because it checks all the boxes of what I've been waiting for in an mmo since vanilla UO. If it releases and meets half of the expectations I have I will be happy.






    So has Ashes of Creation without the RMT bullshit. That's where I put my money.




    Must say that game looks interesting and whilst similar not the same.

    I will probably try it though 


    Here's a Google Doc to everything about Ashes of Creation so far... https://docs.google.com/document/d/14luppZ3Ub8jmcw_aK65QWxYY4xa8qAo9zRfpYWBxOXE/edit#

  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,779
    Almost every game allows you to convert real world currency into in-game currency these days.

    The EVE PLEX system has spread World of Warcraft, Runescape, and ArcheAge just to name a few.

    Very few games allow you to convert in-game currency into real world money. Wurm Online, Entropia are the main ones. There are also grey markets that are tolerated in Star Citizen and Shroud of the Avatar though you can't advertise it in-game or on the official forums I hear.

    The thing I would impress is that this system is only as good or bad as it's implementation. In Wurm it is implemented well and the anti-botting is effective. It has no negative effect on the community. In fact it's presence makes the game more enjoyable.

    In Entropia it is the overbearing focus of the game and they use the promise you can make money from the game to make people willing to pay for absolutely everything they do in the game. I found it stifling and overbearing.

    In Diablo 3 the game was easily botted and accumulating gold and gear was the whole darn point of it even you weren't looking to sell it later on. It devalued all your ingame effort and made things that were not trivial to obtain for a legit player worth mere pennies.

    _____________________________

    Overall I would say good decision. CoE seems most comparable to Wurm so if the anti-botting measures are solid it should actually enhance the game.
    Slapshot1188
  • skelexxskelexx AgrinioMember CommonPosts: 4
    well at least the game tries to bring people together
    gold sellers will unite conquer a kingdom and sell the King position for 9999$
  • Hero001Hero001 MartmeesterstraatMember UncommonPosts: 17
    Love this, everyone knows that when your character logs off it continues "as a bot" running scripted tasks, living it's life without you right ?

    image
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member RarePosts: 2,289
    edited August 1
    I have like no faith in this game because of the whole Life and Death thing as well as other reasons that turn me away.

    But that aside talking about RMT specifically, I have nothing against games that fully allow "RMT" or Real Money Trading between players I hope its a concept that is adopted by newer games, or selling your time through services such as Fiverr, there are people who sell their time for playing games of Over Watch, or League / DOTA with players I think its perfectly fine. (Its a persons private matter, and Real Money, they are free to do what they want with it.)

    The exception to this is when a game using Albion as an example again because its one of the worst at this has people from foreign countries who can hop into a game "Commit Fraud" very easy and quickly exchange currency between players / sell it, and repeat all day long, as well as things like Bots, Cheaters, and Hackers which run rampant like in Lineage 2 which are generally used to illegally obtain resources.

    In this case I have a problem with RMT, but in General a player who spends 1 hour gathering flowers for example and decides to sell 1000 flowers for $10 I have no problem with just saying, as long as they obtained it 100% Legally no RMT, bots, auto clickers, or cheats of any kind.
    Post edited by Renoaku on
    Gdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,197
    Renoaku said:
    I have like no faith in this game because of the whole Life and Death thing as well as other reasons that turn me away.

    But that aside talking about RMT specifically, I have nothing against games that fully allow "RMT" or Real Money Trading between players I hope its a concept that is adopted by newer games, or selling your time through services such as Fiverr, there are people who sell their time for playing games of Over Watch, or League / DOTA with players I think its perfectly fine. (Its a persons private matter, and Real Money, they are free to do what they want with it.)

    The exception to this is when a game using Albion as an example again because its one of the worst at this has people from foreign countries who can hop into a game "Commit Fraud" very easy and quickly exchange currency between players / sell it, and repeat all day long, as well as things like Bots, Cheaters, and Hackers which run rampant like in Lineage 2 which are generally used to illegally obtain resources.

    In this case I have a problem with RMT, but in General a player who spends 1 hour gathering flowers for example and decides to sell 1000 flowers for $10 I have no problem with just saying, as long as they obtained it 100% Legally no RMT, bots, auto clickers, or cheats of any kind.
    You are only looking at it from the seller's side.  What about a game such as this which is based on territory control and wars?Is it OK for one person to buy resources or some other advantage that is far more than they could ever have gotten in game by playing it?  So he buys the work of 100 people with out of game cash.  

    Not a game I want to play...


    Asm0deusNycteliosGdemami

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • skelexxskelexx AgrinioMember CommonPosts: 4
    You are only looking at it from the seller's side.  What about a game such as this which is based on territory control and wars?Is it OK for one person to buy resources or some other advantage that is far more than they could ever have gotten in game by playing it?  So he buys the work of 100 people with out of game cash.  

    Not a game I want to play...
    the person that would buy the resources would have bought them regardless if RMT was allowed or not

    the only difference is this:
    if RMT is allowed the gold seller will sell you 100 iron bars for 10$
    if RMT is banned the gold seller will sell you 100 iron bars for 12$

    those 2 extra dollars the gold seller will put at the side in order to buy the game again if he gets ban

    as someone that has dabbled in gold selling trust me on this : a gold seller doesn't care if RMT is allowed on not what he cares is if the game is good or it sucks

    if its good a lot of people play it so there will always be demand for what he is farming
    if it sucks very few people play it so he wont be able to find people to sell what he farms

    so even if they say we wont allow RMT this will only give you some peace of mind and you will see the occasional we banned 1000 gold sellers
    but in reality nothing has changed the are still here just selling at a bit more expensive prices to compensate for the accounts they lost
    KyleranGdemami
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,197
    skelexx said:
    You are only looking at it from the seller's side.  What about a game such as this which is based on territory control and wars?Is it OK for one person to buy resources or some other advantage that is far more than they could ever have gotten in game by playing it?  So he buys the work of 100 people with out of game cash.  

    Not a game I want to play...
    the person that would buy the resources would have bought them regardless if RMT was allowed or not

    the only difference is this:
    if RMT is allowed the gold seller will sell you 100 iron bars for 10$
    if RMT is banned the gold seller will sell you 100 iron bars for 12$

    those 2 extra dollars the gold seller will put at the side in order to buy the game again if he gets ban

    as someone that has dabbled in gold selling trust me on this : a gold seller doesn't care if RMT is allowed on not what he cares is if the game is good or it sucks

    if its good a lot of people play it so there will always be demand for what he is farming
    if it sucks very few people play it so he wont be able to find people to sell what he farms

    so even if they say we wont allow RMT this will only give you some peace of mind and you will see the occasional we banned 1000 gold sellers
    but in reality nothing has changed the are still here just selling at a bit more expensive prices to compensate for the accounts they lost
    An admitted gold seller trying to explain why RMT is good in a game...OK

    Asm0deusGdemamiYashaX

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Beaumont, CAMember UncommonPosts: 1,994
    this game will never be released I received this email this week

    TAKING STOCK

    That's a peek at the stuff we've done over the last six months. I hope your takeaway is that things are moving along great, and we're extremely happy with the progress. That said, I think many of you want a clearer picture of where we are in the overall timeline, and by how much we've been off on our estimates.

    The truth is, our estimates were pretty accurate. However, as you'll soon see, there's a difference between timelines and schedules, it's possible to be accurate with one, while the other drifts apart.

    In project management, the key difference between a timeline and a schedule is the presence of dates. When talking about a timeline we're generally focused on the order in which events will occur, and the relative work involved, in man-hours, man-weeks, etc., of completing some set of tasks.

    We always predicted about 6-9 months of early, pre-alpha development, and about 12 months of active development focused on the various game-mechanics. For the most part, we're right in line with our timeline. We started focusing on core server work about 7 months ago, and are now moving into gameplay mechanics. Unfortunately, while our timeline has been fairly accurate, our schedule has slipped.

    You see, when we first launched our Kickstarter last May and gave our estimates of an 18-month development cycle, we made two invalid assumptions.

    First, we assumed that we'd be able to lock ourselves away and quietly go about development while the community patiently waited.

    Second, we wrongly assumed that having a kick-ass game design, a rock-solid team of core employees, and a successful Kickstarter under our belt would immediately draw in world-renowned talent.

    In effect, we began a relay race with no runners on the track. Then, at some point after the race started, people slowly began to step onto the track with our pennant on and immediately hauled ass to where the next person should be. At first, there was nobody there and so our engineers were forced to do a second lap, but as time has gone on and we've gained in credibility, more runners have joined our team and now we're starting to catch up. We have a team of rockstars, but no matter how fast they are, they simply won't be able to close the gap in the time we've lost.

    In short, while we're actually right where we should be, we're obviously not when we'd like to be. Here is our estimated timeline: 

    1. V3 of the Website (Q3 2017)
    2. ElyriaMUD (Q4 2017)
    3. Alpha 1 (T1 2018)
    4. Server Selection (T1 2018)
    5. Settlement / Domain Selection (T2 2018)
    6. KoE (T2 2018)
    7. Design Experiences (T3 2018)
    8. Alpha 2 (T3 2018)
    9. Beta 1 (S1 2019)
    10. Prologue & CoE Adventure Toolkit (S1 2019)
    11. Exposition (S1 2019)
    12. Beta 2 (S1/S2 2019)
    13. Stress Test (Any paid account)(S2 2019)
    14. Launch (S2 2019)
    Asm0deusNycteliosYashaX
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,162
    An admitted gold seller trying to explain why RMT is good in a game...OK

    Almost my thought..
    My thought exactly was:

    So the community will consist of RMT - just the kind of people I want to hang with.

    He makes it clear that the reason for him to play the game is whether there is a "demand" he can cash in on.
    ForgrimmGdemami
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 9,927
    Dakeru said:
    An admitted gold seller trying to explain why RMT is good in a game...OK

    Almost my thought..
    My thought exactly was:

    So the community will consist of RMT - just the kind of people I want to hang with.

    He makes it clear that the reason for him to play the game is whether there is a "demand" he can cash in on.
    Just like SOtA, SC and many other current projects. It's attracting a weird bunch of speculator-"gamers" with $ in their eyes. And these devs are at the very least, tolerating the re-sale of future digital goods if not outright encouraging it.

    Not really people I want to play games with.
    NycteliosForgrimmGdemami
    When you come to a fork on the road, take it.
    You can observe a lot by just watching.
    No one goes there nowadays, it's too crowded.

    -- Yogi --
  • skelexxskelexx AgrinioMember CommonPosts: 4
    edited August 2
    skelexx said:
    You are only looking at it from the seller's side.  What about a game such as this which is based on territory control and wars?Is it OK for one person to buy resources or some other advantage that is far more than they could ever have gotten in game by playing it?  So he buys the work of 100 people with out of game cash.  

    Not a game I want to play...
    the person that would buy the resources would have bought them regardless if RMT was allowed or not

    the only difference is this:
    if RMT is allowed the gold seller will sell you 100 iron bars for 10$
    if RMT is banned the gold seller will sell you 100 iron bars for 12$

    those 2 extra dollars the gold seller will put at the side in order to buy the game again if he gets ban

    as someone that has dabbled in gold selling trust me on this : a gold seller doesn't care if RMT is allowed on not what he cares is if the game is good or it sucks

    if its good a lot of people play it so there will always be demand for what he is farming
    if it sucks very few people play it so he wont be able to find people to sell what he farms

    so even if they say we wont allow RMT this will only give you some peace of mind and you will see the occasional we banned 1000 gold sellers
    but in reality nothing has changed the are still here just selling at a bit more expensive prices to compensate for the accounts they lost
    An admitted gold seller trying to explain why RMT is good in a game...OK

    never said that it was good i simply explained how it works

    you can chose to ignore it if you don't believe me everyone is entitled to their opinion

    edit:

    what matters is if you want a constructive discussion or just a pat in the back
    telling you yes yes you are right
    Post edited by skelexx on
    Slapshot1188Gdemami
  • Tiamat64Tiamat64 Member RarePosts: 806
    edited August 2
    Myrdynn relaying an e-mail which said:


    Second, we wrongly assumed that having a kick-ass game design, a rock-solid team of core employees, and a successful Kickstarter under our belt would immediately draw in world-renowned talent.

    It's funny how people are willing to trust a project run by people with logic like this.  It's probably a case of birds of a feather flocking together.
    Post edited by Tiamat64 on
    Slapshot1188MyrdynnGdemami
  • StaalBurgherStaalBurgher LondonMember UncommonPosts: 88
    edited August 7
    Not followed the game for a while so I don't know anything about this latest RMT thing but I still do not understand how people confuse buying items pre-launch meant to flesh out the world with other mmos where you can buy advantage post-launch. The two are fundamentally not the same. 

    Personally I prefer the world being built from scratch post-launch but that is a personal preference not meant to indicate whether it is better or worse. Someone has to be king and the vast majority of players of an mmo would never be one anyway. So what does it matter if people get that as reward for helping fund the game?

    Yes join the existing kingdoms after launch if they are 'insurmountable'. Seems to me the only people losing out are the handful of would-be-kings that are miffed they might not be able to establish their own empires. And that is only a MAYBE.

    The conversation should really be about what SBS is doing to ensure that bought advantages are not permanent, not whether pre-launch world building funds are right or not.
    Post edited by StaalBurgher on
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