Ashes of Creation and the Multi-Level Marketing connection

PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 719
edited April 29 in Ashes of Creation
Deep concerns about this whole project after doing some research.

For starters look at who is the about for this game.
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/the-team/

Literally almost no one has any experience in the gaming industry.  I have no idea where they're getting those logos from because they sure aren't acknowledging them in the bios.  The only exception is one artist.

Now lets look at the the Creative Director.  The guy running this whole thing.

He worked with Xango, a multi-level marketing company.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XanGo

The company itself is questionable about it's legality in operations.  Making claims in the past about the product doing more than what it actually can do.  It's a juice and the claims were that it can basically cure you of multiple ailments.  

Here he is doing the ice bucket challenge for the company.


John Oliver did a show on it, explaining how these companies operate.


Now let's look at their referral program.
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/referral-program/

Sound familiar?

Post edited by PottedPlant22 on
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Comments

  • LeiloniLeiloni PhiladelphiaMember RarePosts: 1,072
    edited April 29
    LinkedIn takes about 3 seconds to find these people (spoiler alert: they all have industry experience):

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/eqpaladin/

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffreybard/

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/michael-bacon-a453571/

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/trystansnodgrass/

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidthornfield/

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/jon-arellano-61b181ab/

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/keith-kovach-a1904820/

    https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeff-delierre-58942342/

    Nothing for Peter Pilone or Matthew Reynolds

    The referral thing has been discussed to death. It's not MLM because there are no levels. You refer a friend and if that friend spends money you get a portion back. That's as far as it goes. It doesn't matter who your friend refers because that is not at all connected to you. They don't even track it that far. All they track is the link someone used right before signing up to the website and the credit goes to that one person. That's it. You're also free to not use it. I don't bother using mine.


    Post edited by Leiloni on
  • SeanicusSeanicus Member CommonPosts: 3
    edited May 1










    Deep concerns about this whole project after doing some research.

    For starters look at who is the about for this game.
    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/the-team/

    Literally almost no one has any experience in the gaming industry.










    Are you seriously blind or just willfully ignorant...or just trolling? If you literally look at the EXACT SAME PAGE you linked and scrolled down you'd see these are all veterans from other companies and worked on numerous games.

    Even I knew these people's names because I've played their games before (Everquest and Star Wars Galaxies). Please stop trying to spread false information. 
    Post edited by Seanicus on
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 719

    Seanicus said:













    Deep concerns about this whole project after doing some research.

    For starters look at who is the about for this game.
    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/the-team/

    Literally almost no one has any experience in the gaming industry.












    Are you seriously blind or just willfully ignorant...or just trolling? If you literally look at the EXACT SAME PAGE you linked and scrolled down you'd see these are all veterans from other companies and worked on numerous games.

    Even I knew these people's names because I've played their games before (Everquest and Star Wars Galaxies). Please stop trying to spread false information. 


    Then tell me who worked on what and in what capacity.  Did you bother to actually read their bios that lack specific information or did you just look at the logos that say their 'team' has experience in?
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Valve Corporation Member LegendaryPosts: 9,739




    Seanicus said:
















    Deep concerns about this whole project after doing some research.

    For starters look at who is the about for this game.
    https://www.ashesofcreation.com/the-team/

    Literally almost no one has any experience in the gaming industry.














    Are you seriously blind or just willfully ignorant...or just trolling? If you literally look at the EXACT SAME PAGE you linked and scrolled down you'd see these are all veterans from other companies and worked on numerous games.

    Even I knew these people's names because I've played their games before (Everquest and Star Wars Galaxies). Please stop trying to spread false information. 




    Then tell me who worked on what and in what capacity.  Did you bother to actually read their bios that lack specific information or did you just look at the logos that say their 'team' has experience in?


    Leoloni already linked their bios for you with a detailed break down of their experience. They are all well known hence the hype ;)

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 719



    Leoloni already linked their bios for you with a detailed break down of their experience. They are all well known hence the hype ;)


    LOL okay.
  • blueturtle13blueturtle13 Valve Corporation Member LegendaryPosts: 9,739







    Leoloni already linked their bios for you with a detailed break down of their experience. They are all well known hence the hype ;)




    LOL okay.


    Ok! Glad you are now informed =)

    거북이는 목을 내밀 때 안 움직입니다












  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 13,766
    It's good they have business people doing the business part and game designers doing their part. I've seen nothing wrong so far, or even sketchy.
    Avatar Artist: U2
    Album: War (Remastered)
    Featured Tracks: Seconds, "40"
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,108
    Looks like someone needs to chill out. :)

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,154
    Ok; But none addressed his worries about past ties to MLM.


    " Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
    —Urza

    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • GrakulenGrakulen Staff Writer St. Charles, MOMMORPG.COM Staff RarePosts: 847
    edited May 2
    They guy made his money from MLM. He is now using that money to make a game. I don't think they are using sketch artists though.

    As much as I dislike MLM companies it's hard to say this game is a MLM scheme. Yes they have a referral program. No it's not an MLM scheme.

    Question the veracity of the designers all you want. There past work speaks for itself. Either you like it or you don't. 

    Full disclosuer: I'm not backing the game on KickStarter. But then again most people that know me could have probably guessed that already.
    Post edited by Grakulen on
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 719

    Grakulen said:


    Question the veracity of the designers all you want. There past work speaks for itself. Either you like it or you don't. 


    Like has nothing to do with it.  I question the influence/experience they had at those companies.  They could be quite talented individuals (the artists obviously are from what I've seen.)  I believe there's a certain amount of resume padding going on and they are parsing language a bit.  40 years of MMORPG experience counted as being a gamer, instead of perhaps actually designing MMORPGs?  Or perhaps it is for game design.  The main point (like other things IE- MLM backing) should be information people talk about, even if it's not a deal breaker for many.

    I mean there are people whom swear up and down that there's nothing nefarious about MLM either.  Of course those people usually have a great new investment they'd love to tell you about joining, all for a low entry cost of monthly $100s of dollars investment.

    I will say the Kickstarter offerings are definitely more reasonable than some of the backing crowd forging games I've seen.
  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 719


    Distopia said:

    Looks like someone needs to chill out. :)


    I think it's cute you think I'm worked up about it.  What I find interesting is no gaming journalism site is asking the creative director about his MLM experience, when people getting scammed before on Kickstarters are certainly a thing.  But if people want to pledge, by all means.  I wouldn't dare tell someone or the devs they have to change something or leave something out simply because I don't like it.  I'm not like some other people on this site.
  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,154

    Grakulen said:

    They guy made his money from MLM. He is now using that money to make a game. I don't think they are using sketch artists though.

    As much as I dislike MLM companies it's hard to say this game is a MLM scheme. Yes they have a referral program. No it's not an MLM scheme.

    Question the veracity of the designers all you want. There past work speaks for itself. Either you like it or you don't. 

    Full disclosuer: I'm not backing the game on KickStarter. But then again most people that know me could have probably guessed that already.


    This game is not MLM, they can't risk that or some huge problems would happen in the future.

    This also his reaction to someone asking about animations on stream worries me a little.

    " Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
    —Urza

    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • WellspringWellspring Charlotte, NCMember RarePosts: 440

    Nyctelios said:



    Grakulen said:


    They guy made his money from MLM. He is now using that money to make a game. I don't think they are using sketch artists though.

    As much as I dislike MLM companies it's hard to say this game is a MLM scheme. Yes they have a referral program. No it's not an MLM scheme.

    Question the veracity of the designers all you want. There past work speaks for itself. Either you like it or you don't. 

    Full disclosuer: I'm not backing the game on KickStarter. But then again most people that know me could have probably guessed that already.




    This game is not MLM, they can't risk that or some huge problems would happen in the future.

    This also his reaction to someone asking about animations on stream worries me a little.


    What was his reaction?
    --------------------------------------------
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Boca Raton, FLMember RarePosts: 2,110

    Nyctelios said:

    Ok; But none addressed his worries about past ties to MLM.



    Is being tied to MLM something to be worried about? 

    It seems like everyone on the internet more or less takes it for granted that MLM is evil.  I guess a majority of people work in flat organizations?

    As long as you have an actual product on your hands, I don't get why it's demonized any more than a brick and mortar franchise.  You have levels of executives profiting off of the work of many there also, not to mention additional overhead for retail space. 

    "To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
    Authored 131 missions in Vendetta Online
    Check it out on Steam

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 13,766





    Distopia said:


    Looks like someone needs to chill out. :)




    I think it's cute you think I'm worked up about it.  What I find interesting is no gaming journalism site is asking the creative director about his MLM experience, when people getting scammed before on Kickstarters are certainly a thing.  But if people want to pledge, by all means.  I wouldn't dare tell someone or the devs they have to change something or leave something out simply because I don't like it.  I'm not like some other people on this site.



    Avatar Artist: U2
    Album: War (Remastered)
    Featured Tracks: Seconds, "40"
  • donger56donger56 cleveland, IAMember RarePosts: 443
    Who wants to bet the water in that bucket came out of the heated pool behind him? Aren't you supposed to use ice for the "ice bucket challenge" ? What a douche.
  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,108





    Distopia said:


    Looks like someone needs to chill out. :)




    I think it's cute you think I'm worked up about it.  What I find interesting is no gaming journalism site is asking the creative director about his MLM experience, when people getting scammed before on Kickstarters are certainly a thing.  But if people want to pledge, by all means.  I wouldn't dare tell someone or the devs they have to change something or leave something out simply because I don't like it.  I'm not like some other people on this site.


    I think you might have taken my post a bit to seriously :)...... WHo was telling anyone they had to change or leave anything?  What is that even pertinent to? 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • PottedPlant22PottedPlant22 Member RarePosts: 719
    More info on their reddit.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/68pbmv/a_friend_did_some_background_checking_on_the_team/#bottom-comments

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I've heard positives about the team but then I was approached with this:

    "ok, just linked in their CEO... no games experience. Their CFO, no WORK experience at all. This is his first job out of college. Lead Game designer was at SOE for 6 years... most of that time in customer service (!!!), Their tech director was at SOE for 10 years in at least an engineering role so there's one. Their lead environment artist is a contractor. but also spent 10 years at SOE. The senior level designer has less than a year of actual games experience (Blind Squirrel) though has had other design roles in non-game companies. The "senior" environment artist has less than a year of employment experience (only 3 months at Daybreak as an intern, then 9 months at some other studio I never heard of). The senior character artist has been a freelancer for 9 years (no in-house team experience anywhere). Their concept artist has only 3 months of in-team games experience (Behavior Interactive). Four years of freelance... never held any position internally longer than 1 year. Their two final "senior" game designers have ZERO linked in profiles or don't exist."

    Take it as you will. The friend just did some searching on linkedin. You should do the same.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here's Steven's response about the team:

    Jason our Technical Director has spent over 15 years in the gaming industry as an engineer, mostly for Sony.

    Jeffrey our Lead Designer spent 6 years at Sony, he is an avid blueprint designer and very passionate about MMORPGs

    Michael Bacon started back on DukeNukem! and has spent over 20 years I believe as an artist.

    David our animator, has been in the industry for several years and worked on gears of war, and call of duty.

    Trystan is a level designer who worked with 2k prior to coming to our team.

    Please dont rely on Linkdin as your "accurate" source of info for the team :) Not everybody uses it really.

    Also, we have no contractors. Everyone on our Team page is full time developers in our studios and for the company.

    Furthermore, As far as myself. You are right. My experience is playing MMOs for 25 years. And judging by the current market of available MMOs, that is the way I'd prefer it. :) Thank you for stopping by our Reddit!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Further down people mention the MLM and that his mother was the one that worked with him on it.  The CFO is apparently his husband and has zero experience other than MLM at the same company and just graduated college (if reddit is right  /shrug.)

  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,154




    Nyctelios said:


    Ok; But none addressed his worries about past ties to MLM.





    Is being tied to MLM something to be worried about? 

    It seems like everyone on the internet more or less takes it for granted that MLM is evil.  I guess a majority of people work in flat organizations?

    As long as you have an actual product on your hands, I don't get why it's demonized any more than a brick and mortar franchise.  You have levels of executives profiting off of the work of many there also, not to mention additional overhead for retail space. 


    I never said a thing about the product itself. I'm talking about the project and it's development. If you don't think MLM schemes are a problem I won't be the one to drawn it out for you - - because I live where I live and I know what I know. This is not the matter of the subject even if I would gladly tell you about it. I also don't think it has any impact whatsoever on the game itself. I never said anything on that regards.

    I actually like a lot the team behind it... Just some actions worries me - - as I pointed it out.

    The same way some actions from Chris Robert worries people following Star Citizen development even if they don't reflect the skills of a 3d modeler to make a ship or animate a character.





    Nyctelios said:





    Grakulen said:



    They guy made his money from MLM. He is now using that money to make a game. I don't think they are using sketch artists though.

    As much as I dislike MLM companies it's hard to say this game is a MLM scheme. Yes they have a referral program. No it's not an MLM scheme.

    Question the veracity of the designers all you want. There past work speaks for itself. Either you like it or you don't. 

    Full disclosuer: I'm not backing the game on KickStarter. But then again most people that know me could have probably guessed that already.






    This game is not MLM, they can't risk that or some huge problems would happen in the future.

    This also his reaction to someone asking about animations on stream worries me a little.




    What was his reaction?


    He went really passive-aggressive towards the question. That kind of behavior is a red flag for me. For me. This is my opinion and my impression about him - not the game. Since there is little to discuss about the game at this time (besides concepts).

    " Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
    —Urza

    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Boca Raton, FLMember RarePosts: 2,110

    Nyctelios said:








    Nyctelios said:



    Ok; But none addressed his worries about past ties to MLM.







    Is being tied to MLM something to be worried about? 

    It seems like everyone on the internet more or less takes it for granted that MLM is evil.  I guess a majority of people work in flat organizations?

    As long as you have an actual product on your hands, I don't get why it's demonized any more than a brick and mortar franchise.  You have levels of executives profiting off of the work of many there also, not to mention additional overhead for retail space. 




    I never said a thing about the product itself. I'm talking about the project and it's development. If you don't think MLM schemes are a problem I won't be the one to drawn it out for you - - because I live where I live and I know what I know. This is not the matter of the subject even if I would gladly tell you about it. I also don't think it has any impact whatsoever on the game itself. I never said anything on that regards.

    I actually like a lot the team behind it... Just some actions worries me - - as I pointed it out.

    The same way some actions from Chris Robert worries people following Star Citizen development even if they don't reflect the skills of a 3d modeler to make a ship or animate a character.








    Nyctelios said:







    Grakulen said:




    They guy made his money from MLM. He is now using that money to make a game. I don't think they are using sketch artists though.

    As much as I dislike MLM companies it's hard to say this game is a MLM scheme. Yes they have a referral program. No it's not an MLM scheme.

    Question the veracity of the designers all you want. There past work speaks for itself. Either you like it or you don't. 

    Full disclosuer: I'm not backing the game on KickStarter. But then again most people that know me could have probably guessed that already.








    This game is not MLM, they can't risk that or some huge problems would happen in the future.

    This also his reaction to someone asking about animations on stream worries me a little.






    What was his reaction?




    He went really passive-aggressive towards the question. That kind of behavior is a red flag for me. For me. This is my opinion and my impression about him - not the game. Since there is little to discuss about the game at this time (besides concepts).


    I have a master's in international business; I don't need it drawn out for me. As I intimated in my above post I can think of plenty of legitimate reasons one might go for a MLM approach over traditional brick and mortar (overhead being a big one).

    The guy in an office building is profiting from the actions of someone two levels beneath him.  MLM is no more guilty than this provided there is an actual product or service being disseminated. 

    "To be what you are not, experience what you are not." -Saint John of the Cross
    Authored 131 missions in Vendetta Online
    Check it out on Steam

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,108
    edited May 2




    More info on their reddit.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/68pbmv/a_friend_did_some_background_checking_on_the_team/#bottom-comments

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I've heard positives about the team but then I was approached with this:

    "ok, just linked in their CEO... no games experience. Their CFO, no WORK experience at all. This is his first job out of college. Lead Game designer was at SOE for 6 years... most of that time in customer service (!!!), Their tech director was at SOE for 10 years in at least an engineering role so there's one. Their lead environment artist is a contractor. but also spent 10 years at SOE. The senior level designer has less than a year of actual games experience (Blind Squirrel) though has had other design roles in non-game companies. The "senior" environment artist has less than a year of employment experience (only 3 months at Daybreak as an intern, then 9 months at some other studio I never heard of). The senior character artist has been a freelancer for 9 years (no in-house team experience anywhere). Their concept artist has only 3 months of in-team games experience (Behavior Interactive). Four years of freelance... never held any position internally longer than 1 year. Their two final "senior" game designers have ZERO linked in profiles or don't exist."

    Take it as you will. The friend just did some searching on linkedin. You should do the same.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here's Steven's response about the team:

    Jason our Technical Director has spent over 15 years in the gaming industry as an engineer, mostly for Sony.

    Jeffrey our Lead Designer spent 6 years at Sony, he is an avid blueprint designer and very passionate about MMORPGs

    Michael Bacon started back on DukeNukem! and has spent over 20 years I believe as an artist.

    David our animator, has been in the industry for several years and worked on gears of war, and call of duty.

    Trystan is a level designer who worked with 2k prior to coming to our team.

    Please dont rely on Linkdin as your "accurate" source of info for the team :) Not everybody uses it really.

    Also, we have no contractors. Everyone on our Team page is full time developers in our studios and for the company.

    Furthermore, As far as myself. You are right. My experience is playing MMOs for 25 years. And judging by the current market of available MMOs, that is the way I'd prefer it. :) Thank you for stopping by our Reddit!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Further down people mention the MLM and that his mother was the one that worked with him on it.  The CFO is apparently his husband and has zero experience other than MLM at the same company and just graduated college (if reddit is right  /shrug.)





    TBH There seems to be as much or more experience on this team than on a lot of these kickstarters/indies. 

    If I remember correctly even Brad's team right now is made up of mostly amateurs in game development. His employment/success record wouldn't look much better post EQ either. The real question comes down to how skilled these folks will be at running a business. Which if news about their overall funding is true, they seem to be doing okay on that front thus far. 

    Still it's always safer to just wait and see what becomes of these projects. IF they get made, great, you can always just buy in then. 
    Post edited by Distopia on

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,154




    Nyctelios said:












    Nyctelios said:




    Ok; But none addressed his worries about past ties to MLM.









    Is being tied to MLM something to be worried about? 

    It seems like everyone on the internet more or less takes it for granted that MLM is evil.  I guess a majority of people work in flat organizations?

    As long as you have an actual product on your hands, I don't get why it's demonized any more than a brick and mortar franchise.  You have levels of executives profiting off of the work of many there also, not to mention additional overhead for retail space. 






    I never said a thing about the product itself. I'm talking about the project and it's development. If you don't think MLM schemes are a problem I won't be the one to drawn it out for you - - because I live where I live and I know what I know. This is not the matter of the subject even if I would gladly tell you about it. I also don't think it has any impact whatsoever on the game itself. I never said anything on that regards.

    I actually like a lot the team behind it... Just some actions worries me - - as I pointed it out.

    The same way some actions from Chris Robert worries people following Star Citizen development even if they don't reflect the skills of a 3d modeler to make a ship or animate a character.











    Nyctelios said:









    Grakulen said:





    They guy made his money from MLM. He is now using that money to make a game. I don't think they are using sketch artists though.

    As much as I dislike MLM companies it's hard to say this game is a MLM scheme. Yes they have a referral program. No it's not an MLM scheme.

    Question the veracity of the designers all you want. There past work speaks for itself. Either you like it or you don't. 

    Full disclosuer: I'm not backing the game on KickStarter. But then again most people that know me could have probably guessed that already.










    This game is not MLM, they can't risk that or some huge problems would happen in the future.

    This also his reaction to someone asking about animations on stream worries me a little.








    What was his reaction?






    He went really passive-aggressive towards the question. That kind of behavior is a red flag for me. For me. This is my opinion and my impression about him - not the game. Since there is little to discuss about the game at this time (besides concepts).




    I have a master's in international business; I don't need it drawn out for me. As I intimated in my above post I can think of plenty of legitimate reasons one might go for a MLM approach over traditional brick and mortar (overhead being a big one).

    The guy in an office building is profiting from the actions of someone two levels beneath him.  MLM is no more guilty than this provided there is an actual product or service being disseminated. 


    I don't see what your life choices have to do with anything. Or are you pulling some appeal to authority? I chose to believe you are wiser than that.

    I think violates the terms of this site to proceed with conversations about pyramid schemes and your life choices. So I'll stop talking about it now.

    " Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
    —Urza

    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • NycteliosNyctelios Novo Hamburgo - RS - BrazilMember EpicPosts: 2,154

    Distopia said:







    More info on their reddit.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/AshesofCreation/comments/68pbmv/a_friend_did_some_background_checking_on_the_team/#bottom-comments

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I've heard positives about the team but then I was approached with this:

    "ok, just linked in their CEO... no games experience. Their CFO, no WORK experience at all. This is his first job out of college. Lead Game designer was at SOE for 6 years... most of that time in customer service (!!!), Their tech director was at SOE for 10 years in at least an engineering role so there's one. Their lead environment artist is a contractor. but also spent 10 years at SOE. The senior level designer has less than a year of actual games experience (Blind Squirrel) though has had other design roles in non-game companies. The "senior" environment artist has less than a year of employment experience (only 3 months at Daybreak as an intern, then 9 months at some other studio I never heard of). The senior character artist has been a freelancer for 9 years (no in-house team experience anywhere). Their concept artist has only 3 months of in-team games experience (Behavior Interactive). Four years of freelance... never held any position internally longer than 1 year. Their two final "senior" game designers have ZERO linked in profiles or don't exist."

    Take it as you will. The friend just did some searching on linkedin. You should do the same.

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Here's Steven's response about the team:

    Jason our Technical Director has spent over 15 years in the gaming industry as an engineer, mostly for Sony.

    Jeffrey our Lead Designer spent 6 years at Sony, he is an avid blueprint designer and very passionate about MMORPGs

    Michael Bacon started back on DukeNukem! and has spent over 20 years I believe as an artist.

    David our animator, has been in the industry for several years and worked on gears of war, and call of duty.

    Trystan is a level designer who worked with 2k prior to coming to our team.

    Please dont rely on Linkdin as your "accurate" source of info for the team :) Not everybody uses it really.

    Also, we have no contractors. Everyone on our Team page is full time developers in our studios and for the company.

    Furthermore, As far as myself. You are right. My experience is playing MMOs for 25 years. And judging by the current market of available MMOs, that is the way I'd prefer it. :) Thank you for stopping by our Reddit!

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Further down people mention the MLM and that his mother was the one that worked with him on it.  The CFO is apparently his husband and has zero experience other than MLM at the same company and just graduated college (if reddit is right  /shrug.)







    TBH There seems to be as much or more experience on this team than on a lot of these kickstarters/indies. 

    If I remember correctly even Brad's team right now is made up of mostly amateurs in game development. His employment/success record wouldn't look much better post EQ either. The real question comes down to how skilled these folks will be at running a business. Which if news about their overall funding is true, they seem to be doing okay on that front thus far. 

    Still it's always safer to just wait and see what becomes of these projects. IF they get made, great, you can always just buy in then. 


    They structure is pretty solid. They are improving (getting new) forums.

    It seems, unlike most KS projects, they mean serious business and are not a bunch of dudes trying to zip their pants live on stream.

    " Tawnos's blueprints were critical to the creation of my armor. As he once sealed himself in steel, I sealed myself in a walking crypt. "
    —Urza

    - Steam ID Discord ID: Night # 6102
  • craftseekercraftseeker kynetonMember RarePosts: 1,547




    Nyctelios said:












    Nyctelios said:




    Ok; But none addressed his worries about past ties to MLM.









    Is being tied to MLM something to be worried about? 

    It seems like everyone on the internet more or less takes it for granted that MLM is evil.  I guess a majority of people work in flat organizations?

    As long as you have an actual product on your hands, I don't get why it's demonized any more than a brick and mortar franchise.  You have levels of executives profiting off of the work of many there also, not to mention additional overhead for retail space. 






    I never said a thing about the product itself. I'm talking about the project and it's development. If you don't think MLM schemes are a problem I won't be the one to drawn it out for you - - because I live where I live and I know what I know. This is not the matter of the subject even if I would gladly tell you about it. I also don't think it has any impact whatsoever on the game itself. I never said anything on that regards.

    I actually like a lot the team behind it... Just some actions worries me - - as I pointed it out.

    The same way some actions from Chris Robert worries people following Star Citizen development even if they don't reflect the skills of a 3d modeler to make a ship or animate a character.











    Nyctelios said:









    Grakulen said:





    They guy made his money from MLM. He is now using that money to make a game. I don't think they are using sketch artists though.

    As much as I dislike MLM companies it's hard to say this game is a MLM scheme. Yes they have a referral program. No it's not an MLM scheme.

    Question the veracity of the designers all you want. There past work speaks for itself. Either you like it or you don't. 

    Full disclosuer: I'm not backing the game on KickStarter. But then again most people that know me could have probably guessed that already.










    This game is not MLM, they can't risk that or some huge problems would happen in the future.

    This also his reaction to someone asking about animations on stream worries me a little.








    What was his reaction?






    He went really passive-aggressive towards the question. That kind of behavior is a red flag for me. For me. This is my opinion and my impression about him - not the game. Since there is little to discuss about the game at this time (besides concepts).




    I have a master's in international business; I don't need it drawn out for me. As I intimated in my above post I can think of plenty of legitimate reasons one might go for a MLM approach over traditional brick and mortar (overhead being a big one).

    The guy in an office building is profiting from the actions of someone two levels beneath him.  MLM is no more guilty than this provided there is an actual product or service being disseminated. 


    If in fact you do have a master's in international business you should be well aware that in many jurisdictions MLMs are illegal and even where not are regarded as being shady practice verging on pyramid marketing schemes that are illegal.
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