Alpha 3.0 Production Schedule (updated 21st October)

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  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 7,980
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Babuinix said:
    Kefo said:
    Babuinix said:
    Kefo said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    What happened to the moderate category and how did they reclassify bugs is what I'd like to know. Did they just shove a bunch of bugs Into the moderate category and then delete it off the chart or what?
    Because none of the issues they selected had the Moderate category. The moderate category is back in yesterday's update with 1 issue on it.

    How they did reclassify bugs is also explained in the update where the change happened.

    No they said they reclassified bugs in the post but I don't see any info on how they came to it. Are they overlooking critical bugs because they want to get it in testers hands?
    Why would you care if they are "overlooking critical bugs" to release 3.0 to evocati or normal backers for that matter lol? You are neither how does that affect you in any way? Unless the release of 3.0 makes you restless in some way I don't see how does it matters in what form it's released.
    You only know how to insult don't you?
    I'm not insulting you in any way. I'm asking a simple legitimate question. You don't play Star Citizen now or ever, you don't have access to Evocati. Why would you care about what or how many bugs go into each build? How does that affect you in any negative way lol?
    Why would I be getting restless unless you're implying something like you typically do?

    id like to know where the bugs went since this project is the most open development project ever!
    How about watching a few dozen video episodes of "Bugsmasher" on the SC homepage ?

    Have fun
    The post they made isn't enough? Why do I need to goto several different sources to try and figure out where the 50 bugs disappeared to?
    Because you asked for it. 


    Have fun
  • AlumicardAlumicard wea, ALMember UncommonPosts: 373
    MaxBacon said:

    Alumicard said:
    You forget that for the Javelin it is min. 23 crew and that there also is a hangar. So you have one ship per server, given that the Javelin is a destroyer class ship I assume you would want something to destroy. So add some more ships and double the crew size at least. If they manage to do server to server shots then great but so far we haven't seen that. Given that they can't drive a rover up a ramp (failing their demo mission in probably the best of the best built they have) call me sceptical.

    And if they can handle 24 players currently then why did the game crash so often at the GC floor room? There were less than that, iirc half, per server.
    Is the 24 after the upgrade they plan for 3.1?
    Okay we take this by steps.

    First, the focus of the limitation of players is on ships and not player characters, the ships are what costs most resources to the server so by what was said, set to cap the number of ships and not the number of player characters, tackling in crews without much of a fuss.

    The GC demo restarted every 15 minutes so most of what of the times we saw them restarting was the planned reset of the server every time new visitors played in the booth. And the build was obviously early even if limited so we could notice the instability and breaking bugs as they played.

    As for the 24 players, it still accounts for 24 in 3.0, the netcode is still on dev, from the schedule is put on Alpha 3.2 (the Object Container Streaming). The objective with it is having different servers processing different regions of space, until they achieve that the player pops are to remain low because it's still one single server handling the entire game space.
    First: So you are saying the max is ships? That is great to hear, given my Javelin might have 300+ people on board that won't be a problem for the server given they are all one. Granted no software engineer will agree but hey, I believe you. You can remove the movements of those people from the server load somehow.... Ehm... What if the ship gets attacked and there is a hull break? So all my 300 people on board even if they are in that section are safe right? I mean I wont kill my ship but might kill a few people but they are no part of the netcode so they are safe right?

    2nd, "most of what of the times we saw them restarting was the planned reset of the server"
    great that we agree the GC demo had bugs and had to restart because otherwise it would even go more fubar than it did.

    3rd: 24 players until 3.2: 3.0 is one year late, 3.1 is nowhere to be seen and according to the GC demo will include full foip and 2 player teams not seeing the same NPC/Quest Giver at a time, bummer. Guess if you have double the money of the most expansive game GTA5 you cant get NPC working. THose are hard....
    Excession
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,099
    Alumicard said:
    First: So you are saying the max is ships? That is great to hear, given my Javelin might have 300+ people on board that won't be a problem for the server given they are all one. Granted no software engineer will agree but hey, I believe you. You can remove the movements of those people from the server load somehow.... Ehm... What if the ship gets attacked and there is a hull break? So all my 300 people on board even if they are in that section are safe right? I mean I wont kill my ship but might kill a few people but they are no part of the netcode so they are safe right?

    2nd, "most of what of the times we saw them restarting was the planned reset of the server"
    great that we agree the GC demo had bugs and had to restart because otherwise it would even go more fubar than it did.

    3rd: 24 players until 3.2: 3.0 is one year late, 3.1 is nowhere to be seen and according to the GC demo will include full foip and 2 player teams not seeing the same NPC/Quest Giver at a time, bummer. Guess if you have double the money of the most expansive game GTA5 you cant get NPC working. THose are hard....
    1) Yes the intention on the caps is on proper vehicles, not players, even in the older design the instances were meant to calculate even the ships docked inside a capital to determine the spots it would take.

    They will be part of the netcode, the matter here is that is much less costly for the game servers to handle player characters than ships, that's where the cap is meant to hit. Now for how many people are inside your ship I think they'll come up with something to prevent filling your ship of players at 0 cost, I heard discussions the life support modules would only generate enough to the ship crew+passagers capacity.

    3) This number won't really face any proper improvement until we start seeing signs of the server mesh. Currently, it's one server handling the entire game space, with the server mesh that same space will be handled by many servers instead, this is stuff we'll see as it develops towards what is meant to be.
    Excession
  • Turrican187Turrican187 WernigerodeMember UncommonPosts: 633
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Babuinix said:
    Kefo said:
    Babuinix said:
    Kefo said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    What happened to the moderate category and how did they reclassify bugs is what I'd like to know. Did they just shove a bunch of bugs Into the moderate category and then delete it off the chart or what?
    Because none of the issues they selected had the Moderate category. The moderate category is back in yesterday's update with 1 issue on it.

    How they did reclassify bugs is also explained in the update where the change happened.

    No they said they reclassified bugs in the post but I don't see any info on how they came to it. Are they overlooking critical bugs because they want to get it in testers hands?
    Why would you care if they are "overlooking critical bugs" to release 3.0 to evocati or normal backers for that matter lol? You are neither how does that affect you in any way? Unless the release of 3.0 makes you restless in some way I don't see how does it matters in what form it's released.
    You only know how to insult don't you?
    I'm not insulting you in any way. I'm asking a simple legitimate question. You don't play Star Citizen now or ever, you don't have access to Evocati. Why would you care about what or how many bugs go into each build? How does that affect you in any negative way lol?
    Why would I be getting restless unless you're implying something like you typically do?

    id like to know where the bugs went since this project is the most open development project ever!
    How about watching a few dozen video episodes of "Bugsmasher" on the SC homepage ?

    Have fun
    The post they made isn't enough? Why do I need to goto several different sources to try and figure out where the 63 bugs disappeared to?
    FTFY

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • KefoKefo London, ONMember EpicPosts: 3,025
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:
    Babuinix said:
    Kefo said:
    Babuinix said:
    Kefo said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    What happened to the moderate category and how did they reclassify bugs is what I'd like to know. Did they just shove a bunch of bugs Into the moderate category and then delete it off the chart or what?
    Because none of the issues they selected had the Moderate category. The moderate category is back in yesterday's update with 1 issue on it.

    How they did reclassify bugs is also explained in the update where the change happened.

    No they said they reclassified bugs in the post but I don't see any info on how they came to it. Are they overlooking critical bugs because they want to get it in testers hands?
    Why would you care if they are "overlooking critical bugs" to release 3.0 to evocati or normal backers for that matter lol? You are neither how does that affect you in any way? Unless the release of 3.0 makes you restless in some way I don't see how does it matters in what form it's released.
    You only know how to insult don't you?
    I'm not insulting you in any way. I'm asking a simple legitimate question. You don't play Star Citizen now or ever, you don't have access to Evocati. Why would you care about what or how many bugs go into each build? How does that affect you in any negative way lol?
    Why would I be getting restless unless you're implying something like you typically do?

    id like to know where the bugs went since this project is the most open development project ever!
    How about watching a few dozen video episodes of "Bugsmasher" on the SC homepage ?

    Have fun
    The post they made isn't enough? Why do I need to goto several different sources to try and figure out where the 50 bugs disappeared to?
    Because you asked for it. 


    Have fun
    What?
  • HeraseHerase LondonMember RarePosts: 876
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:

    id like to know where the bugs went since this project is the most open development project ever!
    How about watching a few dozen video episodes of "Bugsmasher" on the SC homepage ?

    Have fun
    The post they made isn't enough? Why do I need to goto several different sources to try and figure out where the 50 bugs disappeared to?
    Are you serious? You literally just said you want to know what happens to those bugs and was told they have an entire series of videos dedicated to showing you this, you're even linked an episode and you say "Why do i need to". Really? You don't need to do anything, but if you really want that info, it's there. 

    For people who label themselves "critics" you guys seem to be very unwilling to read up on the game you talk so passionately about.
  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Member RarePosts: 4,331
    Waiting for the post that says they are spending too much time telling people about the bugs fixed and not enough time fixing the bugs.


  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,099
    edited September 23
    Schedule report updated: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report



    Bug-fixing changelog for the past week in the actual page.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • KefoKefo London, ONMember EpicPosts: 3,025
    edited September 24
    Herase said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:

    id like to know where the bugs went since this project is the most open development project ever!
    How about watching a few dozen video episodes of "Bugsmasher" on the SC homepage ?

    Have fun
    The post they made isn't enough? Why do I need to goto several different sources to try and figure out where the 50 bugs disappeared to?
    Are you serious? You literally just said you want to know what happens to those bugs and was told they have an entire series of videos dedicated to showing you this, you're even linked an episode and you say "Why do i need to". Really? You don't need to do anything, but if you really want that info, it's there. 

    For people who label themselves "critics" you guys seem to be very unwilling to read up on the game you talk so passionately about.

    3 things

    1) I've don't recall saying I am a critic. More of a skeptic and don't believe anything that CR says his team can do until its actually made and playable

    2) I did thank Max for the video link

    3) That's not my point about saying why do I need to when given a video link. My point is why is the information scattered all over the place? Why do I need to get this bit of information from this post, then watch this video, then read up about these forum posts, then watch another series of videos to get the whole picture?

    Tell me you wouldn't be driven insane if you asked a coworker for a report and they do it for you but they took each page of the 20 page report and taped it to a random part of the office and you need to go find each page to get the complete report.

    *edit cause I cant count lol*
    Post edited by Kefo on
  • MinscMinsc Burford, ONMember UncommonPosts: 1,325
    Kefo said:
    Herase said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:

    id like to know where the bugs went since this project is the most open development project ever!
    How about watching a few dozen video episodes of "Bugsmasher" on the SC homepage ?

    Have fun
    The post they made isn't enough? Why do I need to goto several different sources to try and figure out where the 50 bugs disappeared to?
    Are you serious? You literally just said you want to know what happens to those bugs and was told they have an entire series of videos dedicated to showing you this, you're even linked an episode and you say "Why do i need to". Really? You don't need to do anything, but if you really want that info, it's there. 

    For people who label themselves "critics" you guys seem to be very unwilling to read up on the game you talk so passionately about.

    3 things

    1) I've don't recall saying I am a critic. More of a skeptic and don't believe anything that CR says his team can do until its actually made and playable

    2) I did thank Max for the video link

    3) That's not my point about saying why do I need to when given a video link. My point is why is the information scattered all over the place? Why do I need to get this bit of information from this post, then watch this video, then read up about these forum posts, then watch another series of videos to get the whole picture?

    Tell me you wouldn't be driven insane if you asked a coworker for a report and they do it for you but they took each page of the 20 page report and taped it to a random part of the office and you need to go find each page to get the complete report.

    *edit cause I cant count lol*
    So what you're saying is you want someone to go through all the bugsmashers videos, forum posts etc and create a nice little report that will give you all the info in one place. Using their own time, for free.

    Does that really sound like a reasonable request to you. If you want that information then educate yourself. People have told you where to find it.
  • KefoKefo London, ONMember EpicPosts: 3,025
    Minsc said:
    Kefo said:
    Herase said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:

    id like to know where the bugs went since this project is the most open development project ever!
    How about watching a few dozen video episodes of "Bugsmasher" on the SC homepage ?

    Have fun
    The post they made isn't enough? Why do I need to goto several different sources to try and figure out where the 50 bugs disappeared to?
    Are you serious? You literally just said you want to know what happens to those bugs and was told they have an entire series of videos dedicated to showing you this, you're even linked an episode and you say "Why do i need to". Really? You don't need to do anything, but if you really want that info, it's there. 

    For people who label themselves "critics" you guys seem to be very unwilling to read up on the game you talk so passionately about.

    3 things

    1) I've don't recall saying I am a critic. More of a skeptic and don't believe anything that CR says his team can do until its actually made and playable

    2) I did thank Max for the video link

    3) That's not my point about saying why do I need to when given a video link. My point is why is the information scattered all over the place? Why do I need to get this bit of information from this post, then watch this video, then read up about these forum posts, then watch another series of videos to get the whole picture?

    Tell me you wouldn't be driven insane if you asked a coworker for a report and they do it for you but they took each page of the 20 page report and taped it to a random part of the office and you need to go find each page to get the complete report.

    *edit cause I cant count lol*
    So what you're saying is you want someone to go through all the bugsmashers videos, forum posts etc and create a nice little report that will give you all the info in one place. Using their own time, for free.

    Does that really sound like a reasonable request to you. If you want that information then educate yourself. People have told you where to find it.
    I'm not sure how you came to that conclusion based on what I said but ok. Do people at CIG not get paid? Why would someone at CIG do it for free? 
  • TalulaRoseTalulaRose Long Island, NYMember RarePosts: 982
    Minsc said:
    Kefo said:
    Herase said:
    Kefo said:
    Erillion said:
    Kefo said:

    id like to know where the bugs went since this project is the most open development project ever!
    How about watching a few dozen video episodes of "Bugsmasher" on the SC homepage ?

    Have fun
    The post they made isn't enough? Why do I need to goto several different sources to try and figure out where the 50 bugs disappeared to?
    Are you serious? You literally just said you want to know what happens to those bugs and was told they have an entire series of videos dedicated to showing you this, you're even linked an episode and you say "Why do i need to". Really? You don't need to do anything, but if you really want that info, it's there. 

    For people who label themselves "critics" you guys seem to be very unwilling to read up on the game you talk so passionately about.

    3 things

    1) I've don't recall saying I am a critic. More of a skeptic and don't believe anything that CR says his team can do until its actually made and playable

    2) I did thank Max for the video link

    3) That's not my point about saying why do I need to when given a video link. My point is why is the information scattered all over the place? Why do I need to get this bit of information from this post, then watch this video, then read up about these forum posts, then watch another series of videos to get the whole picture?

    Tell me you wouldn't be driven insane if you asked a coworker for a report and they do it for you but they took each page of the 20 page report and taped it to a random part of the office and you need to go find each page to get the complete report.

    *edit cause I cant count lol*
    So what you're saying is you want someone to go through all the bugsmashers videos, forum posts etc and create a nice little report that will give you all the info in one place. Using their own time, for free.

    Does that really sound like a reasonable request to you. If you want that information then educate yourself. People have told you where to find it.
    If I understand this correctly, this game is being made up of many modules with many people working on it in many countries and yet we have a schedule that is a central point for all the info.....just saying.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,099
    edited September 30
    The Alpha 3.0 Production Schedule got updated:
    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report

    Diffchecker: https://www.diffchecker.com/yRJon1Ib

    "To say it’s been a tumultuous week would be an understatement. We had our first go / no -gos which is a big step for releasing potential Evocati build candidates. These meetings are where a final determination is made on whether a version of 3.0 is ready for our first round of public testing. In each of these, we had to make the difficult call that newly discovered bugs were critical enough to prevent us from releasing the build to Evocati. Again, while the point of the Evocati is to test an incomplete build, the issues that prevented the release were disruptive enough to prevent basic testing, so it was decided to hold off temporarily. We are still very close to pushing to Evocati and these meetings will be taking place nearly every day as we draw closer to this important milestone. Last week we reported seven must-fix issues remaining in order to publish to the Evocati group. Today we have only 1 left! Like you, we are excited to get this out in the hands of our very loyal fans and backers. We’ll be back next week with the latest on Burndown."

    Burn Down, current status (Weekly Update):


    The number of issues (specific to Evocati release push) is down from 7 to 1.


    Completed this past week:

    • Mission System.

    Resuming last week:
    - 1 Completed Tasks
    - A total of 6 features left: 4 UI, 1 Gameplay and 1 PU Content.


    Bug-fixing changelog for the past week in the full schedule page.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
    Excession
  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INMember RarePosts: 5,366
    Alpha 3.0: SHould be buying another island next week.....We hope to own the entire pacific by the time the plaeyrs realize what is going on......
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,099
    As work days start Monday seems more likely Evocati finally to start next week.

    The PTU after the Evocati will be another row of bugs, while Evocati is the basic functionality and so that starts the testing bases it endures until its features are considered functional and the PTU starts.

    Would still predict this Evocati to not last less than 1 month, so could last until late October / early November.
    Excession
  • VrikaVrika FinlandMember RarePosts: 4,131
    MaxBacon said:
    As work days start Monday seems more likely Evocati finally to start next week.

    The PTU after the Evocati will be another row of bugs, while Evocati is the basic functionality and so that starts the testing bases it endures until its features are considered functional and the PTU starts.

    Would still predict this Evocati to not last less than 1 month, so could last until late October / early November.
    RSI trying to do something around CitizenCon would be a good guess. They'll gain or lose big sales depending on if they can impress their fans during CitizenCon.
     
  • Turrican187Turrican187 WernigerodeMember UncommonPosts: 633
    MaxBacon said:
    The Alpha 3.0 Production Schedule got updated:
    https://robertsspaceindustries.com/schedule-report

    Diffchecker: https://www.diffchecker.com/yRJon1Ib

    "To say it’s been a tumultuous week would be an understatement. We had our first go / no -gos which is a big step for releasing potential Evocati build candidates. These meetings are where a final determination is made on whether a version of 3.0 is ready for our first round of public testing. In each of these, we had to make the difficult call that newly discovered bugs were critical enough to prevent us from releasing the build to Evocati. Again, while the point of the Evocati is to test an incomplete build, the issues that prevented the release were disruptive enough to prevent basic testing, so it was decided to hold off temporarily. We are still very close to pushing to Evocati and these meetings will be taking place nearly every day as we draw closer to this important milestone. Last week we reported seven must-fix issues remaining in order to publish to the Evocati group. Today we have only 1 left! Like you, we are excited to get this out in the hands of our very loyal fans and backers. We’ll be back next week with the latest on Burndown."

    Burn Down, current status (Weekly Update):


    The number of issues (specific to Evocati release push) is down from 7 to 1.


    Completed this past week:

    • Mission System.

    Resuming last week:
    - 1 Completed Tasks
    - A total of 6 features left: 4 UI, 1 Gameplay and 1 PU Content.


    Bug-fixing changelog for the past week in the full schedule page.
    What happened with this graph?

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,099
    Vrika said:
    RSI trying to do something around CitizenCon would be a good guess. They'll gain or lose big sales depending on if they can impress their fans during CitizenCon.
    I would think they want to have 3.0 by Citcon but then being realistic it seems very hard to achieve it, they may be able to say open the PTU, that would allow for people to start recording vids, streaming, etc... But speculating this out I would say Citcon card will be SQ42, 3.0 has been already last month in GC.

    What happened with this graph?
    Wednesday (0) > Thursday (5) > Friday (1), that was Thursday.
    Excession
  • Turrican187Turrican187 WernigerodeMember UncommonPosts: 633
    MaxBacon said:
    Vrika said:
    RSI trying to do something around CitizenCon would be a good guess. They'll gain or lose big sales depending on if they can impress their fans during CitizenCon.
    I would think they want to have 3.0 by Citcon but then being realistic it seems very hard to achieve it, they may be able to say open the PTU, that would allow for people to start recording vids, streaming, etc... But speculating this out I would say Citcon card will be SQ42, 3.0 has been already last month in GC.

    What happened with this graph?
    Wednesday (0) > Thursday (5) > Friday (1), that was Thursday.
    But The Graph goes something like (7) > (3) > (1) it does not render the other Graph which goes (7) > (0) > (5) *confused*

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,099
    But The Graph goes something like (7) > (3) > (1) it does not render the other Graph which goes (7) > (0) > (5) *confused*
    I think it ties to when the ATV is recorded before workday ends, then things are updated again the next day on the schedule, the 27/28 were not in properly in sync
    Excession
  • VrikaVrika FinlandMember RarePosts: 4,131
    MaxBacon said:
    Vrika said:
    RSI trying to do something around CitizenCon would be a good guess. They'll gain or lose big sales depending on if they can impress their fans during CitizenCon.
    I would think they want to have 3.0 by Citcon but then being realistic it seems very hard to achieve it, they may be able to say open the PTU, that would allow for people to start recording vids, streaming, etc... But speculating this out I would say Citcon card will be SQ42, 3.0 has been already last month in GC.

    What happened with this graph?
    Wednesday (0) > Thursday (5) > Friday (1), that was Thursday.
    But The Graph goes something like (7) > (3) > (1) it does not render the other Graph which goes (7) > (0) > (5) *confused*
    Maybe the graphs were updated at different times? Depending on timezones and when the graphs get updated, the time difference between 1 and 5 bugs could be up to 48 hours.
     
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILMember EpicPosts: 5,733
    Vrika said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Vrika said:
    RSI trying to do something around CitizenCon would be a good guess. They'll gain or lose big sales depending on if they can impress their fans during CitizenCon.
    I would think they want to have 3.0 by Citcon but then being realistic it seems very hard to achieve it, they may be able to say open the PTU, that would allow for people to start recording vids, streaming, etc... But speculating this out I would say Citcon card will be SQ42, 3.0 has been already last month in GC.

    What happened with this graph?
    Wednesday (0) > Thursday (5) > Friday (1), that was Thursday.
    But The Graph goes something like (7) > (3) > (1) it does not render the other Graph which goes (7) > (0) > (5) *confused*
    Maybe the graphs were updated at different times? Depending on timezones and when the graphs get updated, the time difference between 1 and 5 bugs could be up to 48 hours.
    So officially is it one or five remaining?

    "Change is the only constant."

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,099
    So officially is it one or five remaining?
    1, as the last update on the schedule.
  • hfztthfztt GlostrupMember RarePosts: 1,243
    MaxBacon said:

    But speculating this out I would say Citcon card will be SQ42, 3.0 has been already last month in GC.
    SQ42? That thing they JUST missed being able to show off last year by DAYS. And then was a no show for 12 months. That SQ42?

    Would be about f'ing bloody time if they did...
  • rodarinrodarin camarillo, CAMember RarePosts: 1,813
    hfztt said:
    MaxBacon said:

    But speculating this out I would say Citcon card will be SQ42, 3.0 has been already last month in GC.
    SQ42? That thing they JUST missed being able to show off last year by DAYS. And then was a no show for 12 months. That SQ42?

    Would be about f'ing bloody time if they did...
    youll NEVER see ANYTHING that is PLAYABLE at any of these conventions. At least not playable on any server other than their own.

    But SQ 42 should tell everyone something.

    They WILL make a MAJOR announcement about SOMETHING and then next year THAT WONT be delivered either.

    The fact that people fall for the same shell game year in and year out is amazing.

    You can go back over the past 3 or 4 conventions (pick any of them) there isnt a single thing that highlighted any of them that is actually in the PTU, that includes stuff from 3 and 4 years ago.

    Coincidence? Not hardly. But the bait and switch has gone on for so long people cant even remember what has been showcased and hyped and what hasnt.
    Babuinix
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