MMORPG Design Challenge: Combat System

SirAgravaine

In the spirit of a true "armchair" game designers we continue series, focusing in on specific topics and systems. This time around we discuss the Combat System.

Some of you might immediately be turned off by the idea of describing a system that is in large part based on visual design. However, fear not, for I have a method for which we can converse!

I feel that the best way to get most of us started is to describe what we like from games that people have already played, and use them for analogous dialogue throughout our explanations. This gives readers who have played these games a more relatable understanding of your combat system.

As I have done in previous threads, here is a loose outline of what might be worth mentioning in your combat system, but is not a restrictive or all-encompassing list:


1. Camera Angle - While not directly related to a Combat System, as it is a part of the game engine itself, the camera angle has a significant impact on the combat system of any game.

Common Camera Angles: 

-  First Person (FPS)
-  Third Person/Over the Shoulder (World of Warcraft/Most MMORPGs)
-  Isometric (Diablo)
-  Two-Dimensional/Side-scrolling (Mario/Little Big Planet)
-  Top Down (Grand Theft Auto 1 & 2)

2. Combat Style:

-  Turn-based - A system where each player is allowed to take their turn after the other player has finished theirs. (Final Fantasy)
-  Pseudo Turn-based - A system where each player has a specific condition that causes them to end their turn (timer, action points etc.) and turns can sometimes overlap. (Final Fantasy XIII)
-  Pseudo Real-time - A system where each player can make actions in real-time, but is constricted by a limiting factor other than animation such as cooldowns or resource regeneration. (World of Warcraft)
-  Real-Time - A system where each player can make any number of actions at will, with the only limiting factors being animation time and other systems that may be in place for tactical gameplay (ammunition) rather than controlling the pace of combat. (Nearly all FPS and Fighting Games).
-  Other - If you have a system that is a hybrid of one or more of these or is completely unique from them, use this category.

3. Resources - Does your game system have resources, such as Stamina, Health, Mana, Ammunition etc.? How does this influence the gameplay and in what ways do your resources balance against each other?

4. Friendly Player Interaction - Does your combat system require or encourage friendly player interaction? Think buffs, multi character skill combos or chains, debuffs, MMO trinity, etc.


I think that is a fair outline for getting us started. I look forward to reading your responses and will post my own a little later in the thread.

As always, 

Have Fun & Discuss

sunandshadow

What I feel is really lacking in MMOs currently is more tactical turn-based combat games like Dofus.  Dofus is a French grinder which doesn't really have a lot of quests, and has a pretty heavy focus on pvp, guilds, and group dungeon runs, none of which are my favorite things to do in MMOs.  The crafting system and skill system also could be better.  So I think there's definitely room for a more story-based themepark or sandpark MMO with freer choice of skills and fewer/no classes, and targeting older players with a less absurd sense of humor and no need for speed or dexterity, except possibly in minigames.

Camera angle would depend on whether it's a 2D or 3D game - Dofus is isometric, But I prefer the side-on chessboard perspective which is what you get when you rotate an isometric laying field by 45 degrees.

Combat type as mentioned above is turn-based tactical.  It takes place on a square grid which has obstacles that can obstruct movement and/or line of sight.  Some versions of this type of combat include terrain types (Pox Nora for example) and elevation (the Disgaea series).  The unique appeal of this type of combat is that the player can control a small squad of units (e.g. pets/summons or soldiers) rather than a single avatar, as in most MMOs.  Turn-based tactical combat is thus ideal for an MMO with either a monster-capturing theme or a faction-reputation-earning theme.

Resources - Dofus has action points and movement points, in addition to health and typical RPG stats like agility, strength, and intelligence.  It does not use mana, as this is replaced by action points.  On the other hand if units are going to be casting magic under the player's direct control, then it would make sense if each unit had its own mana pool.  Some other tactical games don't have separate movement points, and instead action points must be spent on movement.  I personally like having a base amount of movement points plus an ability where action points can be sacrificed for a little more movement if the player desires.

Friendly Player Interaction - If the player is controlling multiple units, it can get quite slow if more than 3 or 4 players participate in the same combat instance.  I would consider making the max group size 3 in a game like this, while the minimum would of course be 1.  But Dofus does have cooperative interactions between players, including the usual heals and buffs as well as more meta things like a nice utility where you can point at a monster or location and other players n your team can see what you pointed at.

Nsmileckey

wonderful sharing

cameltosis

These threads are always a good read, love seeing what ideas people can come up with. I would just say that in your OP, you stated that people might get turned off trying to describe a visual system. I'd personally say that the visuals are probably the least important part of a combat system as they are the most easily changed and have the least effect on enjoyment. 

Goals of my combat system:

1) Depth (not to be confused with complexity)
2) Complete revamp of tanking / aggro
3) Lots more movement


Overview:
My combat system builds off a skill system designed for depth. Each player would have a strong mix of solo abilities, group abilities, then situational abilities. I would want somewhere between 20 and 40 active skills per player. Goal is to make the system easy to pickup, especially solo, but very hard to master as its going to require lots of on-the-spot decision making. 

So, multiple toolbars, like tab-target games, but no tab targetting. I would use free-aiming in a system similar to Wildstar (telegraphs), but have the telegraphs hidden. A GCD would be in effective to control the pace of combat, but various classes would have buffs / debuffs that affect GCD. 

My system would also be based around collision detection, so CC of the root / knockback variety would be very prominent. Resource management is also key - no 10s recharge rate like WAR, SW:TOR, but much bigger pools with slower regen like LotRO.


Tanking / Aggro Revamp:
So, I want collision detection in my game, and I want aggro to be more realistic. So, instead of taunting and the like, tanking will be done via correct positioning and a slowing / rooting aura around characters. 

In real life, you wouldn't run past a swordsman to attack the general because that swordsman will cut you down. It is that principle I want to employee.

So, when an enemy enters your engagement zone, the start get slowed, reducing their movement speed to 25%. This mimics the fact you'd have to slow down to defend yourself or risk getting hurt. Enemies can move away from you quicker than they can towards you (mimicking disengaging as opposed to pushing you out the way). 

As we have collision detection, combined with this slow / root effect, tanking becomes a case of physically getting in the way of enemies and keeping them engaged. There would still be threat behind the scenes, so at the start they enemy might head straight for the healer, but if the tank does a good job of getting in the way then over time, the tank becomes the higher priority, mimicking getting frustrated and wanting to remove the tank. 


Collision Detection:
I really want to see collision detection work well in a game. I enjoyed it in WAR, but it wasn't quite up to scratch. The basic features of my collision detection system:

• Characters cannot walk through one another
• Character weight counts - a heavy toon has the ability to push lighter toons out of the way
• Character size counts - a bigger toon has a bigger hitbox and so has to walk further to go around people. Smaller toons can take advantage of smaller gaps in the line
• CC and movement skills play a big part - specifically thinking knockbacks and shoves for the most part, but might also have skills that allow you to do cool move, like roll around an enemy (ignoring their slowing aura) or grab the enemy and pull him towards you. These types of skills are designed to disrupt unit formations. 

My hope is that in addition to the deep combat system resulting from character skills, the collision detection and tanking changes would result in a system where movement and spacial awareness play a big roll. So, a fight with 6 players and 20 goblins might mean forming a 4 man melee wall to protect the healer and mage. However, a troll that can push you out of the way would mean that style of tanking would fail, so more movement / avoidance needed in the tactics. 


Resource Management:
Essentially, a big pool with a low regen in combat. Goal here is to ensure that it is not possible to have a resource-neutral rotation, but a big enough pool so that resources don't need to be thought about much during short (solo) encounters. 

Why?

Depth! If a boss fight takes 10 minutes, but my standard rotation uses all my resources in 2 minutes, I'm gonna have to think up a new strategy. It means every skill selection is meaningful, because resources are scarce. Combine this with potions, self-buffs and group skills that all help regen resources so that teamplay and careful planning can really extend that time. So, if I was solo and used no buffs etc, I might run out of resources after 2 minutes, but with perfect rotations / buffs / potions / teamwork, I might be able to last indefinitely, or at least nearly indefinitely. In this way, soloing remains easy, you just might need to wait for 20s every 3 or 4 fights for resource to regen after combat, but grouping and challenging content takes the combat to a whole new level. 


Special Group Stuff:
To backup the aggro and collision detection mechanics, I would want special skills that can only be executed by a group, together. I am mainly thinking of formations. Lets say you had 6 heavy armoured melee standing in a row. Individually, they're forming a line and attempting to hold back the tide, but the potential exists for them to slip apart. 

I want those 6 melee to be able to hit a button and "form up" into a proper line. What I envisage this doing is locking them in formation, so gaps can't appear. They would have a special buff that reduced CC effectiveness and prevented them being pushed back too far. The downside is they lose the ability to move around much - all movement needs to be coordinated. So, if you're on the end of the line and an enemy tries to run around you, you either have to let them go, or drop formation to try and grab them. 

I'm imagining lines, wedges and squares as basic formations, but perhaps we could let people design and share their own. This sort of thing becomes more and more important in large scale combat, but as I'm designing a combat system for an MMO and not just a standard multiplayer game, I think this could work. 

I also love the conjunction system from LotRO, so anyway to get that sort of thing in would be cool too. 




Think that's probably all I need to say about my desired combat system. As per usual, combat system is not standalone, it needs to mesh extremely closely with the skill system, then with world and dungeon building, along with general ethos of the game. Would also need a shit ton of testing and iterations given the unique features of this system (I don't want every fight to just end up being hiding in a corner, or running around like mad men). 

Bestinna

skill v skill, the better player wins. zergers aren't rewarded.

Eldurian

1. The camera angle would either be a close in 3rd person or locked to 1st person. It really kind of depends on what feels best. Immersion is one of the major focuses of the game though, so a locked 1st person seems most likely.

2. The combat style would be an FPS style built on a system called "Smart targeting." Smart targeting is when you aim at your target but there is a fairly high degree of aim assistance. The point is that it gives the sense of realism you get from actually having to pay attention to what you are aiming at, but it prevents aiming and dodging from being the primary factors involved in player skill as they would in a regular FPS game.

Examples of games with smart targeting include Mass Effect, Elder Scrolls Online, Tera, and Fable. As you can tell reading that list, how games handle smart targeting depends a lot on the game in question. 

This game would be developed in that the primary focus of combat would be in intelligent usage of abilities. Builds would be highly customizable and adjustable with a high amount of skills that can be swapped around. While all characters start with a very solid build they can just stick with if customization is something they are afraid of, creating and learning a more advance build or having many builds you can swap between based on the circumstances at hand will be a great way for highly skilled players to gain a leg up on their competition.

3. Health and Stamina would be your primary stats. Magic is not controlled by mana but instead by other factors such as cooldowns, charge times, channeling costs etc. Pure physical abilities are always insta-cast with no cooldown. But pretty much every build will have magically enhanced abilities that have the kind of limitations a regular spell would. For instance a power attack would be a magically enhanced physical attack and as such may have a charge time and/or cooldown. Your pure physical abilities are intended to be pretty spammable and take the place of auto-attacks though there is much more variety in what a build with a high emphasis on those kind of abilities can do with them.

Stamina really comes into play if your build is super active. For instance dual wielding ranged weapons with a lot of dodge and mobility focused abilities. Characters that play such builds will want to swap out other bonuses for a high rate of stamina regeneration so their highly animated playstyle can be sustained. Generally stamina bonuses will fill the spot of bonuses that would have allowed them to be more tanky or a more powerful spellcaster. Otherwise stamina does not come into play much unless there is a stamina drain based build on the field. 

4. Characters will face many kinds of challenges, and many abilities will allow them to overcome these challenges more easily. You can fight your way in through the front door, or pick the lock and sneak pass, or scale a nearby cliff with climbing etc. The more well rounded your party is, the more of these challenges you can overcome with approaches other than "Kick the door in and kill everyone!" which will rarely be the optimal solution. Characters that choose to be a jack of all trade though will find themselves burdened with penalties (Generally from carrying too much gear) or just not very good at most of their many skills. So beyond traditional  combat roles an optimally balanced party includes characters with diverse skills.

Thankfully as builds are so highly customizable, if you realize your whole party can pick locks, you can choose to have most party members leave their lockpicks at home and switch them out for something that will fit the needs of the current party better.

Slapshot1188

If you want my thoughts you will need to sign an NDA with strict monetary penalties for violations.

Daikuru

Would love to see a MMO with a third-person turn-based combat system.

ceratop001

The main problem all games have is choice. There are too many games to play and population is spread out. The early days of games we had less choice and we congregated within games creating a more alive intense atmosphere. Until this problem is solved it will never be the same.