Five Things MMO Fans Need to Get Over - The List at MMORPG.com

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  • AlverantAlverant Wheaton, ILMember RarePosts: 896
    Well said and I want to add another one:
    6 Not everyone has your tastes. Yes, other people are going to have different opinions than you about what is good. Stop acting like it's a personal affront to your identity that someone dares to likes something you don't.
  • kitaradkitarad RomeMember EpicPosts: 3,584
    Alverant said:
    Well said and I want to add another one:
    6 Not everyone has your tastes. Yes, other people are going to have different opinions than you about what is good. Stop acting like it's a personal affront to your identity that someone dares to likes something you don't.
    Not just a personal affront they often question your intelligence.

  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 12,822
    edited April 4
    Some can be discussed deeper and one imo should not even be up or debate anymore and because it still comes up tells me many people do NOT "get it".

    1The problem as i see it is that the f2p is an addictive baiting tactic.Soon you see free it is super easy at least far easier to just walk in and get hooked by early game/levels.Non free moniker means the game has to sell more so on merit and not by baiting or deceiving players by some free handouts early on ,easy levels early on,easy boss,then BAM pay into our cash shop or forget continuing.

    2The ONLY part right here is the notion that personal preference doesn't make it right and that is just obvious and imo a POOR excuse to the topic.I have explained this so many times using analogies,i feel like giving up because many just do not get it and instead use NON related arguments such as personal preference doesn't make it right.So i won't bother explaining what MMO an rpg stands for.

    3 Now this one is SUPER easy but again tough for MOST to understand.Instead of paragraphs top explain something that should be obvious i will simply ask.HOW is it YOUR role playing game if you are doing the exact same things as everyone else and likely in the exact same order.

    4 It has NEVER been a question of right or wrong way to play ..sorry that is also a lie ,what if people are playing using cheats?That wasn't my point just the obvious one to prove how shallow some people THINK.My point has ALWAYS been you cannot build a game to cater to both because in the end you ONLY cater to pvp and that is just WRONG because you have now ignored the PVE players.

    5 Acronym?? I'll be right honest,i have no idea where this term comes into any form of relevance in mmropg's ?This would be like saying dick but you really meant dickhead,still the same thing.Then to form a word out of a bunch of letters,again wtf does this have to do with anything lol.
    So i have to assume,there is some relevance to beating around the bush in some sentence that really meant something else but that would NOT be an acronym.
    I understand many ideas in any aspect of life can lead to deep discussions but if you are being misleading with your intentions,do not blame the user/reader for not accepting it or even seeing it.Take SOME blame yourself and not point the finger at everyone else.Example i KNOW i am not an English major,i know i often lack the words to explain things,so often my intention is misinterpreted,so i do take some blame.

    Post edited by Wizardry on

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,106
    edited April 4
    Kyleran said:
    As to the OP, my thoughts.
    5. Stop trying to blackwhite easily definable terms such a "massively multiplayer" and the battle ends, otherwise the resistance continues.


    While a lot of games are easily definable, there are also quite a few that have sparked understandable debate on the subject. Take games like TOR, AOC, TSW, D&DO, etc.. When they came out there were quite a few discussions in which that debate came up. Mostly due to the use of instancing, hyper focus on story elements and less focus on player driven content. Content designed for smaller groups was also a hot point of contention. 

    It's easy to see why folks would say Destiny isn't an MMO as even the company backs away from using that label, other cases aren't so easily defined.

    Using TOR as an example it pretty much had all the trappings of your typical themepark MMORPG like WOW. Yet it's world was cut down into small instances in which a lot of times you're only sharing that space with 30-40 people. Does that make it something other than an MMORPG? 
    Post edited by Distopia on

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • RukushinRukushin Member UncommonPosts: 179
    Ummm....yeah I agree with cameltosis as well. Also, someone touched on it a bit in trying to get back to the "Massively" part of MMO. That to me is how you define an MMO. Hundreds of people is not Massive to me...we live on a planet with 7 Billion people. So, if a game does not present a way for you to walk past at least thousands of people while playing then sorry....it's not an MMO to me. If it has a lobby or hub area and that is the only way you see other people before stepping through a portal to an instanced part of the game, aka .Hack games style or PoE style, then sorry...not an MMO. What you have there is instead a more evolved form of Call of Duty.
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 12,822
    We used to hear the simpletons use a direct definition of MMO means lots of players online.
    Now people at least recognize that the term means a LOT more than that.
    I used this example before...Baseball game.
    Just like gaming,someone posts a sign that says "welcome baseball game ,come $25.

    There are a LOT of parts to actually being a baseball game and it is more than just saying so or posting up a sign.
    What if they use a field,bats,balls,bases,umpires,gloves and no scoring?
    This is the same as the term MMO,you can meet the req of many players login however you need to SUPPORT the idea or it is just a SIGN or someone saying it is so.ANYONE can use the term MMO,there is no law against it but i guarantee you that if there is ONLY a login screen with 10 million logged in but there is no game,then you do not have a MMO GAME.Point being that the SERVER carries almost no relevance towards the term MMO,you have to support the idea.


    Instances are NOT and NEVER will be part of the MMO term.There has to be the ability for any player in that world to gain entrance to your space,to see you and be able to wave to you and be able to rub shoulders with you.


    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • DistopiaDistopia Baltimore, MDMember EpicPosts: 21,106
    Wizardry said:



    Instances are NOT and NEVER will be part of the MMO term.There has to be the ability for any player in that world to gain entrance to your space,to see you and be able to wave to you and be able to rub shoulders with you.


    In many instanced games there is a way for people to gain entrance to your space, in most cases it takes little more than knowing what instance to join. 

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • AnirethAnireth Member UncommonPosts: 910
    The endgame of most MMOs consist of raiding (which is just another term for "doing dungeons", which players do all the time while playing MMOs). Raiding means you play with a relatively small amount of players (usually, group sizes is 4-6, and WoW's 40 man raids are *big* for a MMO) in an instance of your own.

    How anything except games like Ultima Online or Eve can be a MMO then is beyond me.
    And if WoW is a MMO, so is Destiny. It just skips right to the endgame.

    Given that Blizzard didn't add the group finder just for fun, but because there was a huge demand, and given that you can fly and/or teleport around, there is little difference to a lobby based game like the original Guild Wars, or Vindictus.

    The line is completely arbitrary at this point.

    I'll wait to the day's end when the moon is high
    And then I'll rise with the tide with a lust for life, I'll
    Amass an army, and we'll harness a horde
    And then we'll limp across the land until we stand at the shore

  • RukushinRukushin Member UncommonPosts: 179
    edited April 4
    Anireth said:
    The endgame of most MMOs consist of raiding (which is just another term for "doing dungeons", which players do all the time while playing MMOs). Raiding means you play with a relatively small amount of players (usually, group sizes is 4-6, and WoW's 40 man raids are *big* for a MMO) in an instance of your own.

    How anything except games like Ultima Online or Eve can be a MMO then is beyond me.
    And if WoW is a MMO, so is Destiny. It just skips right to the endgame.

    Given that Blizzard didn't add the group finder just for fun, but because there was a huge demand, and given that you can fly and/or teleport around, there is little difference to a lobby based game like the original Guild Wars, or Vindictus.

    The line is completely arbitrary at this point.
    you sir just said it yourself. Destiny skips to the endgame of being instanced, hence, not an MMO. If you put WoW into two parts like you just did, you have WoW's open world and leveling experience in an almost seamless environment, or at least really freaking big zones so you minimize loading screens, then you have the instanced raiding/dungeons part. 

    Instanced Raiding/Dungeons Part = Not an MMO
    WoW's open world leveling part with really big zones = The essence of what makes it an MMO

    So, therefore....

    Instanced Raiding/Dungeons Part = Destiny and Destiny 2 = Not an MMO

    But I digress. This is about the "Shut Up and Get Over It!" which in my opinion is WRONG. If we do that then all we have is a further delusion of what an MMO is and will continue to have the poverbial mountain of crap MMOs that we have now.
    Post edited by Rukushin on
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHMember RarePosts: 8,638
    edited April 4
    I agree with you Bill to some extent, but cameltosis makes some excellent points.  Everyone is entitled to the flavor of games they like.  On the other hand if you post how awesome a game is when it clearly has major issues expect that will be pointed out to you.  A good example of that is ME2.  The issues were very evident to some while not so much with others.  You certainly have a right to point out that the game is not fun for you because of these issues, while others can disagree.

    The sad thing is, when you see a game is f2p and comes from certain publishers you know from experience that it is a piece of crap and not to even bother with it.  We know the publishers that abuse the payment system and they never change their spots.

    As to pvp, after watching so many pvp based games die, it is rather evident that without control over the pvp ruleset and how the store effects such it is easy to see you are looking at another one when such things are not addressed.

    As to the term MMO, if your game is lobby based, it most certainly is NOT massive.
    Post edited by Ozmodan on
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 14,121
    Rukushin said:
    Anireth said:
    The endgame of most MMOs consist of raiding (which is just another term for "doing dungeons", which players do all the time while playing MMOs). Raiding means you play with a relatively small amount of players (usually, group sizes is 4-6, and WoW's 40 man raids are *big* for a MMO) in an instance of your own.

    How anything except games like Ultima Online or Eve can be a MMO then is beyond me.
    And if WoW is a MMO, so is Destiny. It just skips right to the endgame.

    Given that Blizzard didn't add the group finder just for fun, but because there was a huge demand, and given that you can fly and/or teleport around, there is little difference to a lobby based game like the original Guild Wars, or Vindictus.

    The line is completely arbitrary at this point.
    you sir just said it yourself. Destiny skips to the endgame of being instanced, hence, not an MMO. If you put WoW into two parts like you just did, you have WoW's open world and leveling experience in an almost seamless environment, or at least really freaking big zones so you minimize loading screens, then you have the instanced raiding/dungeons part. 

    Instanced Raiding/Dungeons Part = Not an MMO
    WoW's open world leveling part with really big zones = The essence of what makes it an MMO

    So, therefore....

    Instanced Raiding/Dungeons Part = Destiny and Destiny 2 = Not an MMO

    So how big does the lobby ("open world") have to be in order to be classified as an MMO. Can it have zones? Must it appear seamless? Can it have any instances? Do characters have to persist when the user is offline? Who made you the rule maker?
  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Anderson, InMember RarePosts: 3,121
    Ya know a good rule of thumb might be if " Goonswarm " is not in it, it aint a mmo.
    " Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Those Who  Would Threaten It "
                                            MAGA
  • AeliousAelious OregonMember RarePosts: 3,467
    Hit all the "A vs B" arguments other than casual vs hardcore (by was touched on by solo vs group). Quite honestly though, within the confines of this site it's the list of thing you hope people never get over. Take these five argumentative pillars out of the site and not much is left from the reader thread side hehe.

    These are the argument stems that complete us ;)
  • RukushinRukushin Member UncommonPosts: 179
    edited April 4
    Torval said:
    Rukushin said:
    Anireth said:
    The endgame of most MMOs consist of raiding (which is just another term for "doing dungeons", which players do all the time while playing MMOs). Raiding means you play with a relatively small amount of players (usually, group sizes is 4-6, and WoW's 40 man raids are *big* for a MMO) in an instance of your own.

    How anything except games like Ultima Online or Eve can be a MMO then is beyond me.
    And if WoW is a MMO, so is Destiny. It just skips right to the endgame.

    Given that Blizzard didn't add the group finder just for fun, but because there was a huge demand, and given that you can fly and/or teleport around, there is little difference to a lobby based game like the original Guild Wars, or Vindictus.

    The line is completely arbitrary at this point.
    you sir just said it yourself. Destiny skips to the endgame of being instanced, hence, not an MMO. If you put WoW into two parts like you just did, you have WoW's open world and leveling experience in an almost seamless environment, or at least really freaking big zones so you minimize loading screens, then you have the instanced raiding/dungeons part. 

    Instanced Raiding/Dungeons Part = Not an MMO
    WoW's open world leveling part with really big zones = The essence of what makes it an MMO

    So, therefore....

    Instanced Raiding/Dungeons Part = Destiny and Destiny 2 = Not an MMO

    So how big does the lobby ("open world") have to be in order to be classified as an MMO. Can it have zones? Must it appear seamless? Can it have any instances? Do characters have to persist when the user is offline? Who made you the rule maker?
    I have some questions for you then.

    So how big does the lobby ("open world") have to be in order to be classified as an MMO.

    Can you walk around in this lobby or is it like Call of Duty where you simply talk in it until the matchmaking system matches you and puts you in an instance?

    Can it have zones?

    Preferably no zones would be amazing. That would mean no loading screens, but since we both know that it is impossible with the tech available now you can pretty much answer that on your own. 

    Must it appear seamless?

    Of course not. Obviously WoW has them, GW2, ESO, etc., etc. 

    Can it have any instances?

    Sure, all MMOs have them. Starting to seem like loaded questions to evoke an irrational response.

    Do characters have to persist when the user is offline?

    Depends on the game now doesn't it.

    Who made you the rule maker?

    No one, I simply stated my opinion as I try to deduce the true meaning of "Massively Multiplayer Online" vs. simply "Multiplayer Online". This is the true underlying topic that has sparked the massive debates on this forum. I simply stated that in my opinion the term "Massively" equates to thousands of people to me. 

    My question to you is do you think Path of Exile is an MMO? 

    Also, Who made you the rule maker that determines who can and cannot be the rule maker of their own gaming experience?
    Post edited by Rukushin on
  • KilrainKilrain OregonMember RarePosts: 1,163
    1. MMO is an acronym for Massively Multiplayer Online - Massively Multiplayer. Not multiplayer. If I log into a game and see endless amounts of people and don't have to constantly switch servers/shards then it's MMO, otherwise no, it's just using the acronym to get attention.

    The rest of it is all personal opinion and doesn't define a genre, just how people play it.
  • SevalaSevala K, NYMember UncommonPosts: 207
    If this wasn't a site article wouldn't this be pretty close to being considered clickbaiting and/or trollbaiting? Its not a terrible read, and there is some valid points...but all in all its a pretty pointless post. Whole thing might as well been a list of 2.

    1-Some people don't understand the word "massive" even as self explanatory as it is. If its not massive, just call it a Morpg, really, who gives a crap either way., if not then whatever, i don't care, it doesn't affect if a game will suck or not, and will also fall under #2 below.

    2-(everything else) Everyone has an opinion, it probably won't change regardless of what you say. Play what you want, don't play if you don't want. I'm not really sure why there is even a debate for all that crap or why someone would say to get over it. Its an opinion, there will always be people on both sides, might as well be telling people to "get over breathing".

    ~I am Many~

  • ScorchienScorchien Hatboro, PAMember EpicPosts: 3,846
    Nice idea , but you are wasting your time , All these differences will always exist , and will always be disputed ,argued ,dissected .digested,regurgitated and the end game bowel movement that it always turns into ....

    But , on the good side it keeps traffic and activity and interest in the genre either way :)
  • MendelMendel Marietta, GAMember RarePosts: 1,765
    Bill, I think you may wish to retract that entire editorial.  If everyone actually does as you say and drops these five topics, you might as well close the forums entirely; there would be little left to discuss.

    Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.

  • SBFordSBFord Associate Editor - News Manager The CitadelMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 25,160
    edited April 4
    While I can generally get behind all of these, in the end what it truly comes down to is trying to erase the prevailing culture that says "if someone disagrees with me they are wrong and stupid". So much of everywhere we go boils down to this. Disliking something automatically means that some folks feel compelled to enter into a discussion simply to tear down and belittle those who do like it.

    Case in point is nearly any game under discussion anywhere on this site. Some people, for instance, love WoW despite its warts and foibles. Others feel it incumbent to enter every single thread about WoW to spew the same old tired hatred just...because.

    Disagreements are fine. Rational, non-combative reasonable discussions about why there even is a disagreement should be the norm, not the exception.

    That is what really needs to change in gaming...hell in any space on the Internet these days.

    You can accomplish by kindness what you cannot by force. ~Publilius Syrus
    Post edited by SBFord on
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  • mmrvmmrv henderson, NVMember UncommonPosts: 140


    The genre isn't not growing because "MMO fans" arent in agreement. Its not growing because IT ISNT POPULAR RIGHT NOW. Even if there was some magical treatise that defined what an MMO is or isn't the fact that MOBAs, traditional single player games, and shooters are doing so much better, require less residual resources and appeal to broader audiences wouldnt change. People like to socialize, yes but we have entered an age of fast content consumption where the level of devotion required of the market of the past was more than the market of today; in general, wants. If theres anything MMO fans have to 'get over' it is expecting the scale, scope and budget that WoW had and figuring out the aspects of MMOs that were most important to them INDIVIDUALLY and supporting and playing those.



    The genre lost ground because the developers have taken short cuts and turned MMO into tiny repetitive tasks. The worlds are actually becoming very small, there is very little exploring or anything to do they are just a really bad single player rpg with endless hamster wheels built in.
  • laseritlaserit Vancouver, BCMember EpicPosts: 4,813
    SBFord said:
    While I can generally get behind all of these, in the end what it truly comes down to is trying to erase the prevailing culture that says "if someone disagrees with me they are wrong and stupid". So much of everywhere we go boils down to this. Disliking something automatically means that some folks feel compelled to enter into a discussion simply to tear down and belittle those who do like it.

    Case in point is nearly any game under discussion anywhere on this site. Some people, for instance, love WoW despite its warts and foibles. Others feel it incumbent to enter every single thread about WoW to spew the same old tired hatred just...because.

    Disagreements are fine. Rational, non-combative reasonable discussions about why there even is a disagreement should be the norm, not the exception.

    That is what really needs to change in gaming...hell in any space on the Internet these days.

    You can accomplish by kindness what you cannot by force. ~Publilius Syrus
    Its going to be a long road 

    The attitude that your speaking about has now reached the White House 

    "Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee

  • YumeTsukaiYumeTsukai The last hopeMember UncommonPosts: 34
    edited April 4
    The fact that you're writing an article dedicated to "teaching us things" and "helping us mature" while calling some people "brazen d*ckheads" is well... extremely sad. You need to make peace with the fact that not everyone will possibly agree with you and maybe even the fact that you're not doing things completely right. This site has really started *venting* at readers because they're not in full accord. No need to write an article every time people don't agree with you... it will not make you THE AUTHORITY in the domain, nor will it make them change their mind :)
    Post edited by YumeTsukai on
  • SedrynTyrosSedrynTyros USMember EpicPosts: 1,761

    SBFord said:

    While I can generally get behind all of these, in the end what it truly comes down to is trying to erase the prevailing culture that says "if someone disagrees with me they are wrong and stupid". So much of everywhere we go boils down to this. Disliking something automatically means that some folks feel compelled to enter into a discussion simply to tear down and belittle those who do like it.

    Case in point is nearly any game under discussion anywhere on this site. Some people, for instance, love WoW despite its warts and foibles. Others feel it incumbent to enter every single thread about WoW to spew the same old tired hatred just...because.

    Disagreements are fine. Rational, non-combative reasonable discussions about why there even is a disagreement should be the norm, not the exception.

    That is what really needs to change in gaming...hell in any space on the Internet these days.

    You can accomplish by kindness what you cannot by force. ~Publilius Syrus



    'Tis human nature, I'm afraid. I doubt it'll change any time soon.
  • KalebGraysonKalebGrayson Harrisburg, PAMember UncommonPosts: 197
    Shame there's not a better business bureau for mmo's then. I go to this site to read the good AND the bad about games. I want to see when a game has done something good or bad. If I had a bad experience in a game, I want to see if other's had that same bad experience. I don't advocate spewing hatred about games, but I do read other's points of view, be them good or bad.
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,030
    SBFord said:
    While I can generally get behind all of these, in the end what it truly comes down to is trying to erase the prevailing culture that says "if someone disagrees with me they are wrong and stupid". So much of everywhere we go boils down to this. Disliking something automatically means that some folks feel compelled to enter into a discussion simply to tear down and belittle those who do like it.

    Case in point is nearly any game under discussion anywhere on this site. Some people, for instance, love WoW despite its warts and foibles. Others feel it incumbent to enter every single thread about WoW to spew the same old tired hatred just...because.

    Disagreements are fine. Rational, non-combative reasonable discussions about why there even is a disagreement should be the norm, not the exception.

    That is what really needs to change in gaming...hell in any space on the Internet these days.

    You can accomplish by kindness what you cannot by force. ~Publilius Syrus
    I prefer Patton, "if everyone is thinking alike, somebody isn't thinking"


    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


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