Monsters Scaling with iLevel - Undocumented Change Explained - World of Warcraft - MMORPG.com

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Monsters Scaling with iLevel - Undocumented Change Explained - World of Warcraft - MMORPG.com

World of Warcraft News - The Blizzard team has posted a lengthy explanation on the World of Warcraft community forum about of a previously undocumented change in v7.2. Monsters are now scaling to a player's iLevel rather than character level as before. There are issues with the system, however, in that players who remove an item see a change in the health pool of the monster they are fighting. The post addresses both the undocumented change and the item removal "bug".

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Avarix

(Copy and paste response from another thread)

From my perspective, as long as they balance it out, I don't see an issue. Exactly what the dev was talking about is one of the reasons I stepped away from WoW recently. Dungeons are just... no. Every dungeon leading up to Legion feels like you're running through and popping balloons. It's extremely unsatisfying and makes dungeons feel like the crappiest quests in the game that are not worth the 3min it takes to complete them, outside of power leveling. If they can stop this from happening with Legion's open world content then I am on board.

I understand players wanting power progression and the dev post even addressed it. From my understanding of the post they're not trying to make it so you feel weak, after all that amazing raid gear, in the open world but make it feel like you're not running around popping balloons either. Both sides of the extreme feel awful. I think players are just overreacting. At the very least allow them to fine tune it and have it work as intended before shitting all over it.

fs23otm

Complain, complain, complain.... that is all people do when companies try to change anything...don't like the changes don't play...

Soki123

It s a good thing.

Viper482

fs23otm said:

Complain, complain, complain.... that is all people do when companies try to change anything...don't like the changes don't play...

Blizzard has been well known for ignoring their player base, i.e. their paying customers. What if you hired someone to paint your house a certain color and they went with a different one because they know better than you?

The first mistake they made was trying to sneak this in stealth-style instead of having a discussion with the community months ago and selling it then. This just reinforces why the player base does not trust these devs.

"Don't like the changes, don't play" is a poor business model. Keep your day job. In the end, the way they went about this is what is pissing people off more than the change itself.

Viper482

DMKano said:

Viper482 said:

Blizzard has been well known for ignoring their player base, i.e. their paying customers. What if you hired someone to paint your house a certain color and they went with a different one because they know better than you?

.

This is a flawed analogy.

Blizzard is not a company you hire to do a job for you - as when you hire painters to paint your house.

Blizzard provides entertainment - you pay to be entertained by playing their games.

These are two entirely different scenarios.

Painters are there to do a job for you, Blizzard is not there to do a job for you, they simply provide a premise of entertainment, and there are no guarantees that you will be entertained.


Its like paying for a Vegas Show, or a movie - you hope that you will be entertained, but you are clearly aware of the possibility that you might not be.

It is not a flawed analogy just because the "Legendary" DMKano says so.

They are providing a service to paying customers. Anyone who provides a service aims to please customers in order to keep them, even painters. Your house will need painting again, you want them to call you when that time comes.

The analogy was one in which the person providing you a service thinks they know what you want better than you know what you want. The comparison ends there. Analogies can be of varying degree of comparisons depending on intent of the point being made. Sorry this went over your head....

fs23otm

DMKano is right. Blizzard wants to make a game with their design philosophy. Whether you play it or not on an individual level does not matter to them. Sure they want to attract your business but they care more about the product they are putting out. 

Blizzard is the only one who knows what Blizzard wants... People are the only ones who know what they want individually.... if those line up... profit... if they don't then move on as a consumer.

Soki123

Viper482 said:

DMKano said:

Viper482 said:

Blizzard has been well known for ignoring their player base, i.e. their paying customers. What if you hired someone to paint your house a certain color and they went with a different one because they know better than you?

.

This is a flawed analogy.

Blizzard is not a company you hire to do a job for you - as when you hire painters to paint your house.

Blizzard provides entertainment - you pay to be entertained by playing their games.

These are two entirely different scenarios.

Painters are there to do a job for you, Blizzard is not there to do a job for you, they simply provide a premise of entertainment, and there are no guarantees that you will be entertained.


Its like paying for a Vegas Show, or a movie - you hope that you will be entertained, but you are clearly aware of the possibility that you might not be.

It is not a flawed analogy just because the "Legendary" DMKano says so.

They are providing a service to paying customers. Anyone who provides a service aims to please customers in order to keep them, even painters. Your house will need painting again, you want them to call you when that time comes.

The analogy was one in which the person providing you a service thinks they know what you want better than you know what you want. The comparison ends there. Analogies can be of varying degree of comparisons depending on intent of the point being made. Sorry this went over your head....

You are kidding right?

Viper482

DMKano said:

Viper482 said:

DMKano said:

Viper482 said:

Blizzard has been well known for ignoring their player base, i.e. their paying customers. What if you hired someone to paint your house a certain color and they went with a different one because they know better than you?


.

This is a flawed analogy.

Blizzard is not a company you hire to do a job for you - as when you hire painters to paint your house.

Blizzard provides entertainment - you pay to be entertained by playing their games.

These are two entirely different scenarios.

Painters are there to do a job for you, Blizzard is not there to do a job for you, they simply provide a premise of entertainment, and there are no guarantees that you will be entertained.


Its like paying for a Vegas Show, or a movie - you hope that you will be entertained, but you are clearly aware of the possibility that you might not be.

It is not a flawed analogy just because the "Legendary" DMKano says so.

They are providing a service to paying customers. Anyone who provides a service aims to please customers in order to keep them, even painters. Your house will need painting again, you want them to call you when that time comes.

The analogy was one in which the person providing you a service thinks they know what you want better than you know what you want. The comparison ends there. Analogies can be of varying degree of comparisons depending on intent of the point being made. Sorry this went over your head....

You do realize that legendary is just a forum title that doest mean anything?

Not sure why you keep harping as if I - as a person - am legendary - i am not.

Ignore silly forum titles, they mean nothing.


also your analogy was wrong

I know that about the titles, your ego doesn't.

And no, my analogy served it's intent just fine.

analogy
[uh-nal-uh-jee]

1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based
2. similarity or comparability:

They are both businesses providing a service. The analogy was showing how absurd it would be for another business to think they know better than you. That is where the comparison ends. You are trying to make it a literal comparison when it is a logical one.

Despite you harping on the analogy and ignoring the point of my post, it still holds true. Blizzard went about this the wrong way. It is not so much the change as it is the way they snuck it in without so much as a conversation with the community. There is only one reason they would do that, they knew the majority would not like it.

Viper482

fs23otm said:

DMKano is right. Blizzard wants to make a game with their design philosophy. Whether you play it or not on an individual level does not matter to them. Sure they want to attract your business but they care more about the product they are putting out. 

Blizzard is the only one who knows what Blizzard wants... People are the only ones who know what they want individually.... if those line up... profit... if they don't then move on as a consumer.

Like I said....keep your day job.

jimmywolf

the reason people are complaining  an rightfully so is blizzard loves to make asinine changes an call it progressive.

changes for the better or so they say


A) flying only cost gold = now locked behind completing almost all end game content.

gear make things easier IE easier farming or questing = now scales to your gear  don't need make thing easier to farm quest...

C) farming reputation  get rewards = lock reputation behind daily quest can't have you farm it to easy.


those just couple off the top my head that are progressive changes that are making the game "better" that people praise as good but it is limiting player choice for the sake of extending time you must play for the same reward.


am sure in the end they will have a loyal million or so an be very happy, since the 8+ million that left won't be their to complain anymore.

Sovrath

Viper482 said:

They are both businesses providing a service. The analogy was showing how absurd it would be for another business to think they know better than you.

Yeah but Viper, be fair, they are two different services.

In one you are asking a painter to do a job for you in a particular way. In the other, the company offers a service/entertainment and it's up to you to decide if it's "right for you".

Forgrimm

Viper482 said:

They are both businesses providing a service. The analogy was showing how absurd it would be for another business to think they know better than you. That is where the comparison ends. You are trying to make it a literal comparison when it is a logical one.

It's an illogical comparison though. There's a massive difference between a company that one person has contracted to do a specific and particular job for them versus a company that is providing a service for millions of different customers, who all have very different and varying tastes and opinions.

gervaise1

fs23otm said:

<snip> Blizzard wants to make a game with their design philosophy. Whether you play it or not on an individual level does not matter to them. Sure they want to attract your business but they care more about the product they are putting out. 

Blizzard is the only one who knows what Blizzard wants... People are the only ones who know what they want individually.... if those line up... profit... if they don't then move on as a consumer.

Actually we do know what Blizzard want - you actually touch on it - profit. That is the easy bit.

What people don't know is Blizzard's "design" for maximising profit. Which simplistically comes down to a) attracting new players b) retaining players c) getting players to spend more money.

This change doesn't seem to be geared to attracting new players (or getting old ones back) or getting them to spend more in the cash shop but it could be geared towards "keeping content challenging" - so maybe more enjoyable = happier players = better retention AND/OR  "more time consuming" - so content takes longer = better retention.

And if - as you say - "they line up" then more profit will follow.

mmrv

You wanna talk about being stuck in a hamster wheel lol. So what exactly is the point of upgrading your gear if you will NEVER EVER get more powerful relative to the content hahaha. Might as well run around naked. These mmo dev's are clueless.

gervaise1

Viper482 said:

<snip>

I know that about the titles, your ego doesn't.

And no, my analogy served it's intent just fine.

analogy
[uh-nal-uh-jee]

1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based
2. similarity or comparability:

They are both businesses providing a service. The analogy was showing how absurd it would be for another business to think they know better than you. That is where the comparison ends. You are trying to make it a literal comparison when it is a logical one.

Despite you harping on the analogy and ignoring the point of my post, it still holds true. Blizzard went about this the wrong way. It is not so much the change as it is the way they snuck it in without so much as a conversation with the community. There is only one reason they would do that, they knew the majority would not like it.

It is a flawed analogy since Blizzard do not advertise / agree to providing x, y, z; if they did that would be different.

However as far as the point you are making about conversation with the community

• as you say maybe the community wouldn't like it
• or Blizzard believe that the people that would respond to wouldn't like it but the silent majority couldn't care
• or Blizzard simply "don't care" because they are doing this for the "future health" (i.e. profits) of the game.

And I suspect it is the latter. Which in no way invalidates your point about communicating a "why".

gervaise1

Now how big an outcry will it be when Blizzard announce that on PvE servers alliance can get Horde quests and vice versa - obviously without being attacked by guards ..........

zenomex

Viper482 said:

fs23otm said:

Complain, complain, complain.... that is all people do when companies try to change anything...don't like the changes don't play...

Blizzard has been well known for ignoring their player base, i.e. their paying customers. What if you hired someone to paint your house a certain color and they went with a different one because they know better than you?



The first mistake they made was trying to sneak this in stealth-style instead of having a discussion with the community months ago and selling it then. This just reinforces why the player base does not trust these devs.



"Don't like the changes, don't play" is a poor business model. Keep your day job.

In the end, the way they went about this is what is pissing people off more than the change itself.

[insert company here] has been well known for ignoring their playerbase

*yawn*

Viper482

Gamers who do not consider themselves customers.....old story. This is why we get unfinished games among other crap. If you simpletons cannot get the point I was making I can't help you. Stop being so hung up on whether or not something fits your definition of the analogy and get the freaking point. Thinking you know what your customer wants more than they know what they want is the issue here. Forget the types of services, contract breach, and all the other technical shit. This was a logical comparison, you are all making it literal. Holy crap.

Soki123

Viper give it up, you look flat out silly now. Wasn t going to use the word silly, but thought I would be nice. If you can t see the difference you might want to re think things.

storag

"Design" as a process has little to do with Blizzard's erratic development. The "old team" used to take fresh or popular mechanics and make them better, but people making that game now either don't know which end of a stick to grab or are dedicated jerks =| Scaling is a poverfull tool when done right, like in ESO, but those changes are only aimed to eliminate playtime reductions from faster grind that occured with overgearing. A lousy way to slow the pace at which people chew through new content that kills the fun of bilding your "power fantasy" =|

Ozmodan

DMKano said:

Viper482 said:

DMKano said:

Viper482 said:

DMKano said:

Viper482 said:

Blizzard has been well known for ignoring their player base, i.e. their paying customers. What if you hired someone to paint your house a certain color and they went with a different one because they know better than you?


.

This is a flawed analogy.

Blizzard is not a company you hire to do a job for you - as when you hire painters to paint your house.

Blizzard provides entertainment - you pay to be entertained by playing their games.

These are two entirely different scenarios.

Painters are there to do a job for you, Blizzard is not there to do a job for you, they simply provide a premise of entertainment, and there are no guarantees that you will be entertained.


Its like paying for a Vegas Show, or a movie - you hope that you will be entertained, but you are clearly aware of the possibility that you might not be.

It is not a flawed analogy just because the "Legendary" DMKano says so.

They are providing a service to paying customers. Anyone who provides a service aims to please customers in order to keep them, even painters. Your house will need painting again, you want them to call you when that time comes.

The analogy was one in which the person providing you a service thinks they know what you want better than you know what you want. The comparison ends there. Analogies can be of varying degree of comparisons depending on intent of the point being made. Sorry this went over your head....

You do realize that legendary is just a forum title that doest mean anything?

Not sure why you keep harping as if I - as a person - am legendary - i am not.

Ignore silly forum titles, they mean nothing.


also your analogy was wrong

I know that about the titles, your ego doesn't.

And no, my analogy served it's intent just fine.

analogy
[uh-nal-uh-jee]

1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based
2. similarity or comparability:

They are both businesses providing a service. The analogy was showing how absurd it would be for another business to think they know better than you. That is where the comparison ends. You are trying to make it a literal comparison when it is a logical one.

Despite you harping on the analogy and ignoring the point of my post, it still holds true. Blizzard went about this the wrong way. It is not so much the change as it is the way they snuck it in without so much as a conversation with the community. There is only one reason they would do that, they knew the majority would not like it.

Read the terms of service for any online game


You will find the text along the lines "company reserves the right to make changes at any time for any reason without any notification...."


Blizzard as any other game company does NOT have to communicate changes to their playerbase.

The idea that players deserve a conversation about every change is not at all part of the end user agreement.

Would it be nice if they announced this change - yep.

but again legally, they dont have to do it at all.


Bottom line - Blizzard didnt breach any contract nor break any law

A painter painting your house the wrong color would be a breach of written contract and would be subject to lawsuit if not addressed

Sorry but your argument just fails.  Both a painter and a game maker just provide a service.  Both lose customers if the service they provide is not well liked.  Trying to read more into that is just silly.

Blizzard has been quietly destroying this game for years.  Mainly because the original architects are long gone and the ones they have brought in are borderline disasters.