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New PC build.

MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,786
edited March 2017 in Hardware
First, I have a PC that is over 5 and a half years old.  I am planning on getting a new one and have some ideas for what I am looking for, but do also have some questions.

For the CPU I am probably going to the local Miro Center.  They have the
i7 4.2 for 300 and the i5 3.8 for 200, I think those loot to be really good deals. 

http://www.microcenter.com/product/472529/i
http://www.microcenter.com/product/472532/Core_i5-7600K_Kaby_Lake_420_GHz_LGA_1151_Boxed_Processor#


For the GPU I am looking at either the RX 480 or the 1070.
The 480 seems to be the best nag for you buck but the 1070 just seems like it would be a better long term purchase.

480:    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814137048
1070:  https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127951

I am leaning heavily towards the i7 and the 1070.

For the case:
Space is not an issue.  I would do not want white, a darker color.  I don't fancy lights or even a see through side. 
I am looking at this one:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811147252

Primarily because it has 6 USB on the front.  I don't know much about cases.

The PSU I know nothing about.

I don't need a blu-ray drive as I will cannibalizing that along with my data SSD.  I want to run with a m 2 PCI SSD for the OS so I will need one of those.  I think between 240-600GB should be fine, lower end is what I will actually probably be purchasing. 

I will obviously need a motherboard.  Here is where I am really finding it a bit difficult.  I would really like a 2x m 2 slots that are PCI and do not interfere with the other PCI slots.  I would also like the MB to support at least 2 slots of DDR4 2400 RAM (16GB is the goal).  I would prefer it to have wireless built in, but I can get a card if I need to.  I want to run Windows 7 (I know some will say Windows 10 is fine, well to not going moving off Windows 7), and preferably not to have a giant pain in the ass for the OS installation. 

I really cannot find those together very easily, although I am probably not the best at searching. 

I am also looking to get two new monitors.  I expect the total cost to be between 1500-2k.  If it went over 2k I am not going to care as long as the purchase makes sense.

I do not need keyboard or mouse.  I will need a Windows 7 OS, but I think I can find that easy enough.

I don't think I missed anything.  I know I will need an aftermarket cooler so advice on that would be great.  I won't be OCing.  I would like to get a PC that can last me another 5 years with minimal aggravation. 


“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

--John Ruskin







Comments

  • SwankdSwankd Member UncommonPosts: 243
    For power supply, use this calculator to help once you figure out your parts https://images10.newegg.com/BizIntell/tool/psucalc/

    PCPartPicker will greatly help you with compatibility

    image

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    Be warned that Microsoft has apparently decided that Windows 7 shouldn't play nicely with Kaby Lake:

    http://techreport.com/news/31601/microsoft-may-block-updates-on-new-pcs-running-windows-7-or-8-1

    Also be warned that if your "data SSD" is old enough, I'd retire it on general principle.  If you just bought it last year, then have at it.  There's rarely any real need for multiple SSDs, as you can just get one with whatever capacity you need.

    Power supplies are complicated enough that I'll just pick one for you:

    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151118

    The way that chipsets work is that any chips the motherboard adds beyond what is built into the chipset has to use PCI Express lanes to connect it in with everything else.  You can probably get at one M2 slot that doesn't pick any lanes off of the main x16 connection for the video card, but at some point, you run out of lanes or have to use an x1 connection.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,786
    My SSD is only a few months old.  That should be good. 

    Do you have any ideas on the MB, even if it is a bit older?

    Coolers or cases, any thoughts on those?

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    MMOman101 said:
    My SSD is only a few months old.  That should be good. 

    Do you have any ideas on the MB, even if it is a bit older?

    Coolers or cases, any thoughts on those?
    No problem with keeping an SSD that is only a few months old.

    Apparently the Z270 chipset has more PCI Express lanes than older chipsets, including the Z170.  So that's probably something you should look for if you're set on multiple M.2 drives.  Not sure why you'd need multiple M.2 SSDs, though.
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    bestever said:
    Quizzical said:
    MMOman101 said:
    My SSD is only a few months old.  That should be good. 

    Do you have any ideas on the MB, even if it is a bit older?

    Coolers or cases, any thoughts on those?
    No problem with keeping an SSD that is only a few months old.

    Apparently the Z270 chipset has more PCI Express lanes than older chipsets, including the Z170.  So that's probably something you should look for if you're set on multiple M.2 drives.  Not sure why you'd need multiple M.2 SSDs, though.
    I agree, only need one fast m.2 drive then do two ssd's in raid 0 if need be. That's how I have mine set up. One 250gig m.2 and two 500 gig ssd's in raid 0.
    You'd better have a good RAID controller if you don't want two m.2 SSDs in RAID 0 to be slower than one.  I don't know if Intel's latest controllers in their chipsets are up to the task, but some older ones weren't.

    But even if you do have a good RAID controller, it would take a very strange situation for two m.2 SSDs in RAID 0 to offer you any real benefits over two separate drives.  RAID 0 does bring a big drawback, though:  a problem with either one of the drives means all your data is toast, not just that which was on the failing drive.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,786
    edited March 2017
    Well I am not doing a raid and since I already have one fully operation SSD and getting a smaller one for the OS is cheaper.

    Getting one small SSD now for the OS that is PCI just makes far more sense and having a future m 2 PCI slot for upgrading the other SSD later just makes much more sense both financially and for the for future proofing.


    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    MMOman101 said:
    Well I am not doing a raid and since I already have one fully operation SSD and getting a smaller one for the OS is cheaper.

    Getting one small SSD now for the OS that is PCI just makes far and having a future m 2 PCI slot for upgrading the other SSD later just makes much more sense both financially and for the for future proofing.


    Why not just use the one SSD you already have and be done with it?
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,786
    bestever said:
    As far as I know you won't be using your​ CPU to the max if you use Windows 7. Also windows 10 is super easy to install. I do it off of a USB and it's installed in like 15 minutes. Also you won't be able to play future game as all api's seem to be dropping support for windows 7.

    If all you're building it for is gaming then those should be great. If you plan on doing more I would get the ryzen 1700 to be honest, it has 24 PCI lanes. I have the Asus x370 Mobo and it's great. Have the Samsung 960 pro nvme m.2 installed and the system is insanely fast. 

    All good choices and hope it goes well.

    Oh and check https://www.kinguin.net for windows, super cheap. Got two copies of windows 10 pro for $30 each. Might have windows 7.
    I was a Windows Architect for a very large manufacturing company up until a few years ago and there is no reason for me to switch to Windows 10 at all.  Windows 7 is a far superior OS for a fast majority of users and probably all gamers.   

    The installation is not the problem.  I just don't want the hassle.  If I get a MB that the OS just installs on, or creating my own boot flash drive with the MB drivers.........I will take the MB that saves me the 40 minutes.  I do that kind of crap enough at work.  I want my PC to be put together and not thought about. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







  • Loke666Loke666 Member EpicPosts: 21,441
    edited March 2017
    bestever said:
    As far as I know you won't be using your​ CPU to the max if you use Windows 7. Also windows 10 is super easy to install. I do it off of a USB and it's installed in like 15 minutes. Also you won't be able to play future game as all api's seem to be dropping support for windows 7.

    If all you're building it for is gaming then those should be great. If you plan on doing more I would get the ryzen 1700 to be honest, it has 24 PCI lanes. I have the Asus x370 Mobo and it's great. Have the Samsung 960 pro nvme m.2 installed and the system is insanely fast. 

    All good choices and hope it goes well.

    Oh and check https://www.kinguin.net for windows, super cheap. Got two copies of windows 10 pro for $30 each. Might have windows 7.
    Windows 10 need more juice then W7, that is true but in either case the CPU he needs depends on how he uses his computer.  But II must say that even if he just plan to game the extra $100 for the I7 is still worth it. If it would be $200 I would have skipped it if he just game but the upgrade is well worth the cost here and it will add a year or 2 to the computer (not counting the gfx card but it is easy to change later).

    As for the Windows version I will still keep 7 myself until I get forced to upgrade but it is rather easy to do later even if some of your programs might have to be reinstalled. Most usually survives. A clean install is of course better, particularly on a small SSD but it also takes more work. Still, I understand OP, while W10 is better then 8 and Vista 7 is generally less annoying and need as you say less resources to run.

    As for getting a second SSD for the OS I would skip it for the moment, just get a cheap slow regular media drive and move any important things from the old SSD to it. An extra TB or 2 never hurts for junk, music, movies and backup but a small SSD will just be annoying, windows will fill it will stupid logs and crap fast (I manually clean mine every month and it fills a lot). Better to get a larger at a later time instead, the prices do drop and they get faster with time as well.

    My own SSD is 250 gigs with windows and a few prioritized games on.

    The 1070 is a good card, should work fine. I leave comments about the Rx 480 to Quizz.
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,888
    edited March 2017
    Quizzical said:
    Also be warned that if your "data SSD" is old enough, I'd retire it on general principle.  If you just bought it last year, then have at it.  There's rarely any real need for multiple SSDs, as you can just get one with whatever capacity you need.
    I disagree. SSD space is valuable, so as long as the old SSD is large enough it's good idea to have it in some use and save a bit of money.

    If it's old enough you might want to avoid storing valuable data without backups on it. But there's always some good use you can find for it as long as it's large enough.
     
  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    SedrynTyros said:
    Vrika said:
    Quizzical said:
    Also be warned that if your "data SSD" is old enough, I'd retire it on general principle.  If you just bought it last year, then have at it.  There's rarely any real need for multiple SSDs, as you can just get one with whatever capacity you need.
    I disagree. SSD space is valuable, so as long as the old SSD is large enough it's good idea to have it in some use and save a bit of money.

    If it's old enough you might want to avoid storing valuable data without backups on it. But there's always some good use you can find for it as long as it's large enough.
    Nah.  You're always better off with a conventional hard drive for storing data.  SSD is good for your System drive; where your OS lives and your programs are installed.  For data storage, conventional hard drives are more reliable.  When a SSD fails you're often completely fucked out of any data on the drive.
    It depends on how much "data" you have.  If I put Windows on an SSD and games and other programs I have, for me, there isn't much "data" left to put elsewhere.  So I just stick the little bit that's left on the SSD, too.
  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415

    Just wanted to toss in, based on the fact you mentioned in a previous post that you really don't want to dick around hassling with putting the PC together, then you should strongly consider a "higher" end case.  I reallllly really like corsair, they have so many things they do that make putting a PC (particularly cable management) together a breeze.

    If you want something reasonably priced, and very functional, not ostentatious, etc, I'd strongly recommend this one:

    http://www.corsair.com/en-us/obsidian-series-450d-mid-tower-pc-case

    it can be had for around $100 on various sites like amazon.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    Hrimnir said:

    Just wanted to toss in, based on the fact you mentioned in a previous post that you really don't want to dick around hassling with putting the PC together, then you should strongly consider a "higher" end case.  I reallllly really like corsair, they have so many things they do that make putting a PC (particularly cable management) together a breeze.

    If you want something reasonably priced, and very functional, not ostentatious, etc, I'd strongly recommend this one:

    http://www.corsair.com/en-us/obsidian-series-450d-mid-tower-pc-case

    it can be had for around $100 on various sites like amazon.

    For my last build, I bought a Corsair Carbide 400R.  And I regretted it.  It had too many "how could someone think that was a good idea?" blunders.

    1)  There are mounts where you can add case fans.  The screw holes for those mounts are enormous--big enough that you can drop a pencil straight through the screw hole.  So most screws, including the ones likely to come with a case fan, can't be used to mount the fan because the screw head will fall right through the hole.  That's fine if the case came with screws of the appropriate size, but it didn't beyond the installed fans.  I ended up having to use some extra thumbscrews that came with a previous case.

    2)  The case came with three case fans.  You have to plug in molex power connectors in exactly two places to power the three fans.  One of them, which powers two of the fans, is buried and hard to find--and once you do find it, it just looks like a loose cable and not something that you're supposed to do something with, as it's stuck so far away from the fans.  The locations are justifiable for reasons of clean cabling, but the real problem is that it's completely undocumented.  The case has no documentation whatsoever beyond some marketing bullet points, whether in dead tree form inside the box or a digital version on Corsair's web site.  So you end up with a bunch of trial and error trying to figure out how to assemble things.

    3)  Various things inside the case are misaligned or just plain laid out poorly.  This became really apparent when the computer died and I had to take some components out to put into an older computer to again have a working computer that can handle my monitors.  It's about 24% larger by volume than my previous case, an Antec Three Hundred Illusion.  But while it's larger on the outside, it sure feels smaller on the inside.  I had a lot of work to get components to fit in the larger Corsair case, but exactly the same components very easily fit in the smaller Antec case.

    As a result of those issues, I don't intend to buy a Corsair case again, nor to recommend them to others.  I haven't had any such problems in the past with Antec or Cooler Master cases, though to be fair, the Cooler Master cases weren't for gaming rigs, so not needing a discrete GPU makes it easier to fit everything.
  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    edited March 2017

    Well to be fair, I've only ever bought the "higher end" corsairs, however I did do a build in that specific case for a friend who wanted a more subdued PC, and I did not encounter the problems you had.

    Sorry you had a bad experience, but I've done at least 4 builds with corsair cases and every single one of them has been amazing.

    Perhaps you just got that bad one that slipped through QC?

    For the record I used to be a dyed in the wool Antec guy, but they really fell off their position at the top of the mountain for a LONG time.  I don't know if they've changed since then, but I've been so happy with corsair cases in everyone one of my builds I've had no reason to look elsewhere.

    Edit: Just checked out some reviews of your specific case the 400r, and generally people seem to love it? Also I looked at the back panel on it and I don't see that the screw holes are *that* big?

    Here is one link: http://techreport.com/r.x/2011_10_3_Corsair_Carbide_400R_Midtower_Chassis/back-620.jpg

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    Hrimnir said:

    Well to be fair, I've only ever bought the "higher end" corsairs, however I did do a build in that specific case for a friend who wanted a more subdued PC, and I did not encounter the problems you had.

    Sorry you had a bad experience, but I've done at least 4 builds with corsair cases and every single one of them has been amazing.

    Perhaps you just got that bad one that slipped through QC?

    It doesn't seem like a quality control problem unless they completely forgot to put extra screws and a manual in the box.  And if the manual exists, why isn't it posted on Corsair's web site?
  • HrimnirHrimnir Member RarePosts: 2,415
    Quizzical said:
    Hrimnir said:

    Well to be fair, I've only ever bought the "higher end" corsairs, however I did do a build in that specific case for a friend who wanted a more subdued PC, and I did not encounter the problems you had.

    Sorry you had a bad experience, but I've done at least 4 builds with corsair cases and every single one of them has been amazing.

    Perhaps you just got that bad one that slipped through QC?

    It doesn't seem like a quality control problem unless they completely forgot to put extra screws and a manual in the box.  And if the manual exists, why isn't it posted on Corsair's web site?

    Who knows, like I said, could be QC, could just be a shitty case and one of their "misses".  However, the general reviews seem to strongly disagree with you on multiple of your points. That doesn't mean your wrong. I'm just saying you're acting like it was a complete and utter POS and I think that's being a bit unfair when it's possible you had QC issues.

    Again, the screw hole size is a problem like you said.  That's fair if you intend to use aftermarket stuff. Alignment issues can easily be QC, I've experienced 0 fitment or alignment issues on any of the builds I've done in their cases.  The manual situation I honestly don't remember cus I don't really need a manual for a case, it's pretty self explanatory when you've done it 20+ times.

    According to this picture of this review, it does look like it comes with some screws but not really extras, so that's a fair point. http://techreport.com/review/21759/corsair-carbide-400r-mid-tower-chassis/2

    Either way man, your opinion and experience is valid, I just feel the need to defend them because I've had the polar opposite of your experience with their cases (including using aftermarket fans with the aftermarket screws and not having issues).

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member LegendaryPosts: 25,348
    Hrimnir said:
    Quizzical said:
    Hrimnir said:

    Well to be fair, I've only ever bought the "higher end" corsairs, however I did do a build in that specific case for a friend who wanted a more subdued PC, and I did not encounter the problems you had.

    Sorry you had a bad experience, but I've done at least 4 builds with corsair cases and every single one of them has been amazing.

    Perhaps you just got that bad one that slipped through QC?

    It doesn't seem like a quality control problem unless they completely forgot to put extra screws and a manual in the box.  And if the manual exists, why isn't it posted on Corsair's web site?

    Who knows, like I said, could be QC, could just be a shitty case and one of their "misses".  However, the general reviews seem to strongly disagree with you on multiple of your points. That doesn't mean your wrong. I'm just saying you're acting like it was a complete and utter POS and I think that's being a bit unfair when it's possible you had QC issues.

    Again, the screw hole size is a problem like you said.  That's fair if you intend to use aftermarket stuff. Alignment issues can easily be QC, I've experienced 0 fitment or alignment issues on any of the builds I've done in their cases.  The manual situation I honestly don't remember cus I don't really need a manual for a case, it's pretty self explanatory when you've done it 20+ times.

    According to this picture of this review, it does look like it comes with some screws but not really extras, so that's a fair point. http://techreport.com/review/21759/corsair-carbide-400r-mid-tower-chassis/2

    Either way man, your opinion and experience is valid, I just feel the need to defend them because I've had the polar opposite of your experience with their cases (including using aftermarket fans with the aftermarket screws and not having issues).

    All of those screws have heads small enough that they'd fall right through the screw holes for mounting case fans.  The case fans that come mounted have much wider heads so that they don't fall through.  It's a problem that you won't notice unless you try to mount an extra case fan--but it's quite a facepalm moment if you do.  In my case, I had to mount the radiator for a Fury X video card.

    When I say "misaligned", I don't mean "defective".  I mean stuff like "the screw holes are here and that's a stupid spot for it because it would be much easier to fit things if it were an inch over".  Maybe some or all of that should be blamed on the motherboard rather than the case, but whatever the cause, they didn't play nicely together.  Having the Fury X radiator physically pressing against the memory modules and its tubes physically pressing against the CPU heatsink was the only way I could get it to fit in the case at all.  In the Antec Three Hundred Illusion case, there was plenty of space and it was easy to fit.
  • MMOman101MMOman101 Member UncommonPosts: 1,786
    Hrimnir said:

    Just wanted to toss in, based on the fact you mentioned in a previous post that you really don't want to dick around hassling with putting the PC together, then you should strongly consider a "higher" end case.  I reallllly really like corsair, they have so many things they do that make putting a PC (particularly cable management) together a breeze.

    If you want something reasonably priced, and very functional, not ostentatious, etc, I'd strongly recommend this one:

    http://www.corsair.com/en-us/obsidian-series-450d-mid-tower-pc-case

    it can be had for around $100 on various sites like amazon.

    The putting it together should be the fun part.  I am going to put it together with my son over spring break (his first time being old enough to help put a PC together).  It should be a good time.  If we have a few obstacles, it will be fine, and honestly somewhat desired. 

    I have been building PCs for about 20 years and have never had an issue with the hardware installation.  I guess I have just been lucky.  I think that case will be fine. 

    “It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”

    --John Ruskin







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