Pledging/Early Access - The Ultimate Hype Killer

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  • kitaradkitarad RomeMember EpicPosts: 3,623
    Backers and pledges make impatient masters.

  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 14,417

    Kyleran said:











    Just checking in on the status of this game again.  According to this site, they planned a 2017 release.  They don't even have a playable alpha yet.  They're still working on basic systems.  Did they write their own game engine or something?  If so, man, that sounds like a sentence to an eternity in hell for a small, indie developer, even if they have experience in a successful, ancient MMO like DAoC.






    Yes, they actually did write their own game engine...  The fact that you don't know this is telling.


    I've visited the CU site one time to look at the pledge tier pricing and even I know they built their own engine...  The fact that you don't know that but are complaining about the progression rate of development makes you seem less a concerned backer and more a childish backer stomping your feet because you can't have everything overnight.

    Oh, and MJ has also already updated us directly here on how well the engine is performing so far.  So again, maybe take some time to educate yourself about the game before bitching about it?




    I agree not knowing they built their own engine makes me question what llevel if backer he is.

    Also the fact he posted his update one day after the weekly Friday email  I just read and the live stream Tyler also held makes me question if he's aware of them.

    He is correct on the point they have not promised a beta date yet, which every backer is painfully aware of.

    When the beta date announcement finally comes it won't be on external websites backers first hear of it.




    An end user shouldn't have to know or care if they built their own engine. Again, making excuses and blaming the end user rarely if ever ends well. You can be right, and are, but it doesn't matter if the users get frustrated and abandon the project. There are list of software projects a mile long that were "right" and are now either flailing or dying a slow embarrassing death (hey, Open Office how's it going for you?). It's not just a game industry issue and won't make game projects immune.

    The point is you can tell everyone they're not supposed to be fatigued and frustrated but that won't prevent it, even if you're technically right.

    Also mmo's are going to be fucked going forward if they keep developing everything from scratch and taking 5 - 8 years to complete. Software isn't moving at that pace anymore. I get that OOB game engines are crap for mmos and the industry desperately needs a prebuilt solution but again, ignoring the problem and moving on with business as usual is going to cost the industry, especially indies and small projects.
    Notice: The artist or album content may be offensive or controversial.
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    Featured Tracks: Decline and Fall, Time & Space, I Go Crazy (bonus track on digital release)
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,406
    edited April 23



    Torval said:



    An end user shouldn't have to know or care if they built their own engine. Again, making excuses and blaming the end user rarely if ever ends well. You can be right, and are, but it doesn't matter if the users get frustrated and abandon the project. There are list of software projects a mile long that were "right" and are now either flailing or dying a slow embarrassing death (hey, Open Office how's it going for you?). It's not just a game industry issue and won't make game projects immune.

    The point is you can tell everyone they're not supposed to be fatigued and frustrated but that won't prevent it, even if you're technically right.

    Also mmo's are going to be fucked going forward if they keep developing everything from scratch and taking 5 - 8 years to complete. Software isn't moving at that pace anymore. I get that OOB game engines are crap for mmos and the industry desperately needs a prebuilt solution but again, ignoring the problem and moving on with business as usual is going to cost the industry, especially indies and small projects.




    Be that as it may, it sounds less a legitimate concern and more childish whining when you make threads about the progress of development then subsequently make it clear you have no idea what progress they have made.

    I totally agree that crowdfunding has not turned out to be the user-friendly route it was touted as being on its arrival.  Doesn't excuse being largely ignorant of the topic but still trying to complain about it.  Camelot Unchained hasn't been selling shiny in-game swords, armors, or anything like that for hundreds of dollars a pop.  MJ has been very open about the challenges and delays faced, as well as the niche he's trying to fill.  It costs nothing but small amounts of time to educate one's self here.  Bashing this game in particular is quite ludicrous, considering the surrounding landscape of crowdfunded projects.  
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

    image
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 14,417





    Torval said:







    Kyleran said:


























    Just checking in on the status of this game again.  According to this site, they planned a 2017 release.  They don't even have a playable alpha yet.  They're still working on basic systems.  Did they write their own game engine or something?  If so, man, that sounds like a sentence to an eternity in hell for a small, indie developer, even if they have experience in a successful, ancient MMO like DAoC.












    Yes, they actually did write their own game engine...  The fact that you don't know this is telling.


    I've visited the CU site one time to look at the pledge tier pricing and even I know they built their own engine...  The fact that you don't know that but are complaining about the progression rate of development makes you seem less a concerned backer and more a childish backer stomping your feet because you can't have everything overnight.

    Oh, and MJ has also already updated us directly here on how well the engine is performing so far.  So again, maybe take some time to educate yourself about the game before bitching about it?










    I agree not knowing they built their own engine makes me question what llevel if backer he is.

    Also the fact he posted his update one day after the weekly Friday email  I just read and the live stream Tyler also held makes me question if he's aware of them.

    He is correct on the point they have not promised a beta date yet, which every backer is painfully aware of.

    When the beta date announcement finally comes it won't be on external websites backers first hear of it.










    An end user shouldn't have to know or care if they built their own engine. Again, making excuses and blaming the end user rarely if ever ends well. You can be right, and are, but it doesn't matter if the users get frustrated and abandon the project. There are list of software projects a mile long that were "right" and are now either flailing or dying a slow embarrassing death (hey, Open Office how's it going for you?). It's not just a game industry issue and won't make game projects immune.

    The point is you can tell everyone they're not supposed to be fatigued and frustrated but that won't prevent it, even if you're technically right.

    Also mmo's are going to be fucked going forward if they keep developing everything from scratch and taking 5 - 8 years to complete. Software isn't moving at that pace anymore. I get that OOB game engines are crap for mmos and the industry desperately needs a prebuilt solution but again, ignoring the problem and moving on with business as usual is going to cost the industry, especially indies and small projects.






    Be that as it may, it sounds less a legitimate concern and more childish whining when you make threads about the progress of development then subsequently make it clear you have no idea what progress they have made.

    I totally agree that crowdfunding has not turned out to be the user-friendly route is was touted as being on its arrival.  Doesn't excuse being largely ignorant of the topic but still trying to complain about it.  Camelot Unchained hasn't been selling shiny in-game swords, armors, or anything like that for hundreds of dollars a pop.  MJ has been very open about the challenges and delays faced, as well as the niche he's trying to fill.  It costs nothing but small amounts of time to educate one's self here.  Bashing this game in particular is quite ludicrous, considering the surrounding landscape of crowdfunded projects.  


    I agree and have repeatedly said in these indie/crowd-funded mmo threads that most people shouldn't be buying in at all period. It doesn't change the frustration or perception of incompetence by end users though. I've recently been reminded of the lesson that being right doesn't always win the day.

    The other reason I'm less inclined to side with the projects is because they've created the situation and the problem by taking the money, and "be patient" isn't a good answer. They're not solving the issue and why should they? They have the money already.

    This really isn't any different than the complaints and frustration with Star Citizen. What did studios and the industry think was going to happen?
    Notice: The artist or album content may be offensive or controversial.
    Avatar Artist: Flesh For Lulu
    Album: Plastic Fantastic
    Featured Tracks: Decline and Fall, Time & Space, I Go Crazy (bonus track on digital release)
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,406

    Torval said:









    Torval said:









    Kyleran said:































    Just checking in on the status of this game again.  According to this site, they planned a 2017 release.  They don't even have a playable alpha yet.  They're still working on basic systems.  Did they write their own game engine or something?  If so, man, that sounds like a sentence to an eternity in hell for a small, indie developer, even if they have experience in a successful, ancient MMO like DAoC.














    Yes, they actually did write their own game engine...  The fact that you don't know this is telling.


    I've visited the CU site one time to look at the pledge tier pricing and even I know they built their own engine...  The fact that you don't know that but are complaining about the progression rate of development makes you seem less a concerned backer and more a childish backer stomping your feet because you can't have everything overnight.

    Oh, and MJ has also already updated us directly here on how well the engine is performing so far.  So again, maybe take some time to educate yourself about the game before bitching about it?












    I agree not knowing they built their own engine makes me question what llevel if backer he is.

    Also the fact he posted his update one day after the weekly Friday email  I just read and the live stream Tyler also held makes me question if he's aware of them.

    He is correct on the point they have not promised a beta date yet, which every backer is painfully aware of.

    When the beta date announcement finally comes it won't be on external websites backers first hear of it.












    An end user shouldn't have to know or care if they built their own engine. Again, making excuses and blaming the end user rarely if ever ends well. You can be right, and are, but it doesn't matter if the users get frustrated and abandon the project. There are list of software projects a mile long that were "right" and are now either flailing or dying a slow embarrassing death (hey, Open Office how's it going for you?). It's not just a game industry issue and won't make game projects immune.

    The point is you can tell everyone they're not supposed to be fatigued and frustrated but that won't prevent it, even if you're technically right.

    Also mmo's are going to be fucked going forward if they keep developing everything from scratch and taking 5 - 8 years to complete. Software isn't moving at that pace anymore. I get that OOB game engines are crap for mmos and the industry desperately needs a prebuilt solution but again, ignoring the problem and moving on with business as usual is going to cost the industry, especially indies and small projects.








    Be that as it may, it sounds less a legitimate concern and more childish whining when you make threads about the progress of development then subsequently make it clear you have no idea what progress they have made.

    I totally agree that crowdfunding has not turned out to be the user-friendly route is was touted as being on its arrival.  Doesn't excuse being largely ignorant of the topic but still trying to complain about it.  Camelot Unchained hasn't been selling shiny in-game swords, armors, or anything like that for hundreds of dollars a pop.  MJ has been very open about the challenges and delays faced, as well as the niche he's trying to fill.  It costs nothing but small amounts of time to educate one's self here.  Bashing this game in particular is quite ludicrous, considering the surrounding landscape of crowdfunded projects.  




    I agree and have repeatedly said in these indie/crowd-funded mmo threads that most people shouldn't be buying in at all period. It doesn't change the frustration or perception of incompetence by end users though. I've recently been reminded of the lesson that being right doesn't always win the day.

    The other reason I'm less inclined to side with the projects is because they've created the situation and the problem by taking the money, and "be patient" isn't a good answer. They're not solving the issue and why should they? They have the money already.

    This really isn't any different than the complaints and frustration with Star Citizen. What did studios and the industry think was going to happen?


    I'm certainly in agreement.  I'm just not so sure CU is the right "poster child" for the issues of crowdfunding.  It's moving slowly, yes, but at least MJ's acknowledges it and has resisted the bluster projected by so many other projects.  If they can garner enough crowdfunding without selling in-game items for extraordinary amounts of cash, spending cash on things like annual "CamelotCons" and all this other strictly marketing hoopla so many other titles use...  Well that, at least, is an indication that the funds they receive from gamers are a true result of the feature set being described, as opposed to the marketing ploys being used.

    I've pretty much sworn off crowdfunding myself.  If I'm paying for access, the title will be in a state that I think it's worth the entry fee at that exact moment.  The idea of helping "shape development" is largely a myth used to entice gamers into buying in as early as possible.

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,254
    edited April 23


    Torval said:





    Kyleran said:





















    Just checking in on the status of this game again.  According to this site, they planned a 2017 release.  They don't even have a playable alpha yet.  They're still working on basic systems.  Did they write their own game engine or something?  If so, man, that sounds like a sentence to an eternity in hell for a small, indie developer, even if they have experience in a successful, ancient MMO like DAoC.










    Yes, they actually did write their own game engine...  The fact that you don't know this is telling.


    I've visited the CU site one time to look at the pledge tier pricing and even I know they built their own engine...  The fact that you don't know that but are complaining about the progression rate of development makes you seem less a concerned backer and more a childish backer stomping your feet because you can't have everything overnight.

    Oh, and MJ has also already updated us directly here on how well the engine is performing so far.  So again, maybe take some time to educate yourself about the game before bitching about it?








    I agree not knowing they built their own engine makes me question what llevel if backer he is.

    Also the fact he posted his update one day after the weekly Friday email  I just read and the live stream Tyler also held makes me question if he's aware of them.

    He is correct on the point they have not promised a beta date yet, which every backer is painfully aware of.

    When the beta date announcement finally comes it won't be on external websites backers first hear of it.








    An end user shouldn't have to know or care if they built their own engine. Again, making excuses and blaming the end user rarely if ever ends well. You can be right, and are, but it doesn't matter if the users get frustrated and abandon the project. There are list of software projects a mile long that were "right" and are now either flailing or dying a slow embarrassing death (hey, Open Office how's it going for you?). It's not just a game industry issue and won't make game projects immune.

    The point is you can tell everyone they're not supposed to be fatigued and frustrated but that won't prevent it, even if you're technically right.

    Also mmo's are going to be fucked going forward if they keep developing everything from scratch and taking 5 - 8 years to complete. Software isn't moving at that pace anymore. I get that OOB game engines are crap for mmos and the industry desperately needs a prebuilt solution but again, ignoring the problem and moving on with business as usual is going to cost the industry, especially indies and small projects.




    I was calling him out for his disingenuous questions which as an alpha backer he should know the answers to.

    If he had just stated his frustration with the lack of a beta date I would have joined right in as I enjoy a good "rant" as much as the next guy.
    Post edited by Kyleran on

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    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

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