Pledging/Early Access - The Ultimate Hype Killer

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  • YashaXYashaX Baldurs GateMember RarePosts: 1,945
    It seems like just yesterday you were asking for a way to support the game and get immediate access to play it : http://forums.mmorpg.com/discussion/443336/immediate-access#latest

    I was quite hyped up about it at that time as well, but I thought the game was still at least a year or two away from being ready (still seems a long way from release imo). 
    ....
  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin BelgradeMember RarePosts: 977

    <snip>
     Look at the forum activity on here if you want an indication of how much interest there is these days.
    <snippety>
    Yes, we are rather silent but it will change in beta. Part of that is due to CU being in good hands = not desperate for attention.

    Also, we are talking about a MMORPG in full development for bit more than three years.
  • DammamDammam Las Cruces, NMMember UncommonPosts: 38
    edited February 7
    CrazKanuk said:
    ...

    I think this actually summarizes the "problem" perfectly. You're not wrong, but it isn't the process, it's the people. There is such thing as a hype curve and it looks something like this:


    [...]
    So, yes, crowdfunding is a hype killer, but it's only that way because of how we've been programmed to accept hype. We want things NOW!!! Many companies won't announce a product unless it will ship in the next 6-12 months. However, crowdfunding is a double-edged sword in this regard because if you don't have a good hype video then you won't make your targets, but if you have a great hype video then the expectations will skyrocket, but you know you'll ultimately let people down.
     [...]
    I like your graph, by the way, @CrazKanuk.

    I'm not sure if you can say this is how we've been programmed to accept hype, or if it is simply a natural response. Either way, when I hear a new idea that sounds interesting, I want to know more, to get informed. I suspect many people are that way. This presents a dilemma for the developer. Offer too little information, and people begin "reading between the lines", or in other words imagining things the developer did not intend. This can only end in disappointment. On the other hand, giving too much information during the early stages, when the developers are brainstorming and fleshing out their own ideas inevitably leads to the Peak of Inflated Expectations.

    Creative works often require an initial outpouring of ideas, which are then whittled down and refined into a clear, cohesive product. Cutting things and consolidating ideas, simplifying and reworking them, is all part of the process. To those creating the game (artists, programmers,etc.), these changes make sense. That's a product of hours spent bringing these ideas to life. To outside observers like us, however, these changes may seem like lost features or a shift in vision. Suddenly, the game we thought we were getting becomes something else.

    That is just it, though. If developers were selling a product after it had gone through the major iterative changes, then that is all the consumers would know. But hyping a game early on in development, when so much can (and should) change, can result in people (some, many?) feeling let down. Say too much during development, and people get frustrated (not to mention the added effort of discussing every design decision in detail). Say too little and people's imaginations take off, or else lose interest, or... It may also be difficult for people to separate their initial impressions of an early access title from the polished final product, and the natural downturns during development may sour some people's attitudes towards that final product.
    Post edited by Dammam on
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member RarePosts: 1,726
    Mark Jacobs replied to my post on the official forums, as shown below.  This gives me hope!  I so want to experience the RvR I loved in DAoC in a modern game.


    OK, thanks.  Is there an official release date for the beta?

    Not yet. When we get the new animation system/improved VFX system and the ability system all working together nicely we can give a date. We have two new big systems (animation, ability) interacting with an important one. Until they are in and working, any date we give would be B.S. and we don't do that sort of thing.

     

    It won't be much longer till we can do that, truly.

  • cameltosiscameltosis ipswichMember EpicPosts: 1,559
    I don't think pledging kills the hype, but early access certainly can. 

    Instead, I feel like hype is deliberately generated at different points in the project lifecycle. During the initial funding round, CSE needed to get the word out in order to generate that funding, so they deliberately generated hype. That initial hype helps spread the word, so CSE got their funding and could build the game. 

    We're now in a lull because, well, CSE don't need the hype. They have their funding so they're building their game. It takes time but they no longer need the hype train behind them, they just need time to build the game. From a PR point of view, all they need to do in the years between funding and release is keep the game in the mind of the playerbase so they don't completely forget about it. 

    As we approach release, I'm sure their PR team will start a new hype train because, again, at that point it serves a purpose: getting people to buy and play the game. There is no point wasting money on PR if that PR serves no purpose. What would be the purpose of hyping CU now? They already have their funding, but we can't buy and play the game, so any large PR push now would be a waste. 
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,110
    There's no miracles here.

    MMO's take a long time to dev, and inevitably these days fall upon some sort of early access program (even the big-budget ones do). The best way to hype for one MMO like this is not obsess with it, if you're waiting for it, if you backed it, checking its progress like once a month instead of once a day is far more healthy. ;) 
  • LeFantomeLeFantome Member RarePosts: 349
    Kyleran said:
    Try "disappointed."  But if you can't counter the argument, attack the person.
    You basically retitled your June 2016 thread on the same subject "Will CU ever effin release?" and shared your thoughts and feelings again on it.

    Most everything posted here mirrors those you received previously. So none of this is news to you.

    This game needs no hype, though Mark recently did say here on these forums he wished followers would talk the game up more, especially with regards to milestones achieved.

    As I told him once he's ready to let me play a more or less feature complete version I'll start paying the game more attention and be willing to discuss.

    More than anything this title needs a polished, feature complete launch to succeed.  MMORPGs are a sum of their parts which is why I disagree wirh the MVP approach so many are taking these days.

    When I pledged in the KS i had my doubts, still do and I still remain skeptical a fully featured MMORPG can be made for so little money.

    But then I recall they are really only building one side of DAOC, the RVR piece with some crafting so it is within the realm of possibility.

    So no, my original reply didn't address the "problem" you again raised.

    I find it sort of pointless to "shout at the devil"

    The game will come when it will, no telling the day at this poont.

    Whatever you say dude.

    The OP is right and you're wrong.
    As I don't feel to write a wall of text like you did..

    image
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,278
    edited February 22
    black777 said:
    Kyleran said:
    Try "disappointed."  But if you can't counter the argument, attack the person.
    You basically retitled your June 2016 thread on the same subject "Will CU ever effin release?" and shared your thoughts and feelings again on it.

    Most everything posted here mirrors those you received previously. So none of this is news to you.

    This game needs no hype, though Mark recently did say here on these forums he wished followers would talk the game up more, especially with regards to milestones achieved.

    As I told him once he's ready to let me play a more or less feature complete version I'll start paying the game more attention and be willing to discuss.

    More than anything this title needs a polished, feature complete launch to succeed.  MMORPGs are a sum of their parts which is why I disagree wirh the MVP approach so many are taking these days.

    When I pledged in the KS i had my doubts, still do and I still remain skeptical a fully featured MMORPG can be made for so little money.

    But then I recall they are really only building one side of DAOC, the RVR piece with some crafting so it is within the realm of possibility.

    So no, my original reply didn't address the "problem" you again raised.

    I find it sort of pointless to "shout at the devil"

    The game will come when it will, no telling the day at this poont.

    Whatever you say dude.

    The OP is right and you're wrong.
    As I don't feel to write a wall of text like you did..
    Beyond your capability to do so I suspect.

    Btw, I'm rarely wrong, usually only when I give other people more credit than they are due. ;)
    Post edited by Kyleran on

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  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,197

    <snip>
     Look at the forum activity on here if you want an indication of how much interest there is these days.
    <snippety>
    Yes, we are rather silent but it will change in beta. Part of that is due to CU being in good hands = not desperate for attention.

    Also, we are talking about a MMORPG in full development for bit more than three years.
    I agree.  There really hasn't been much controversy about CUs development.  The worst you could say is that it's taken longer than planned but MJ has been very up front about the process.  Without controversy there really isn't much to discuss...other than the occasional "Looks good", "yeah looks good" posts.

    "I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator

    Starvault's reponse to criticism related to having a handful of players as the official "test" team for a supposed MMO: "We've just have another 10ish folk kind enough to voulenteer added tot the test team" (SIC) This explains much about the state of the game :-)

  • WikkydWikkyd Member CommonPosts: 5
    cheyane said:
    If you do not have the patience don't pledge.
    The reason I haven't pledged to CU isn't so much a lack of patience as it being cautious with my money. I've plopped money down on projects before only to get totally burned... Not that I won't take the risk to pledge to a game again (and I have, for example most recently to Albion Online and Pantheon) but I need some assurances that the developers are making REAL progress. I would pledge to CU if I saw such progress but I simply haven't.

    For example, I check their website and Youtube channel fairly regularly. I just don't see any real game progress. If progress is there then they sure are not showing it. Sure there is some concept art, some dev interviews, and some short clips of game-play but that is it. I mean come on, there should at least be some RECENT game-play videos that are longer than 20ish sec clips.

    The ton of Dev type interviews and tons of talking along with flashy hype videos really raises my eyebrows. I also see a lof of videos on their channel of just playing with dev tools like 3D Studio Max. Sorry that to me isn't showing progress. I used to see that kind of "progress" a lot with Daybreak. Right before they canned EQNext.

    Sorry folks I am a realist and not a fan boy. I would love to play the game and I would pledge if I saw real progress but I'm just not seeing it. Show me some real progress. Show me some alpha footage with the Devs actually running raids and what not IN GAME with EXTENDED duration videos so we can actually see the game-play and the performance of their engine in action, then I'll plop down some green for em. That is at least what I see with other developing projects like Panthon Online. Until then, I won't pledge.
  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIMember RarePosts: 9,109
    Try "disappointed."  But if you can't counter the argument, attack the person.
    I'm still drooling.


    I wasn't dumb enough to through my money at it though. Duh...
  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 1,560
    DMKano said:
    Dammam said:

    I hope CU is one of the successful ones. I'm just skeptical of this new direction in game development.

    Look at it from game dev perspective -

    1. Spend 100+ million on a game over 4-6 years, reveal it to public and realize that very few like what you made

    OR

    2. Develop a Minimally viable product/demo for less than 1 million, see what the traction is, get players to donate from early on and help fund development.


    No wonder why so many have switched to #2
    So we should pay because they have no confidence in their vision?

    Ah, game development. The only industry where employees are so self-absorbed and riddled with an over-developed sense of self-importance that they think they should be rewarded for being slackers and producing nothing but hype. 
    postlarval's gaming resolutions for 2018 (and the rest of 2017):
    I will not play any game with a cash shop, f2p or p2p. ~~ I will not play any game that allows real currency to influence the game economy in any way. ~~ I will not play any game that doesn't understand the concept of risk vs. reward. ~~ I will not play any online game that isn't centered around grouping, teamwork, and community. ~~ I will not play any game that considers end-game the "real" game. ~~ I will not pay to play any early access game. ~~ I will not buy or play any games through a distribution platform that uses DRM. ~~ I will not break any of these "rules" if I cannot find a game to play. I will do without.
  • IselinIselin Vancouver, BCMember LegendaryPosts: 9,927
    KS hype and game pre-release hype are two completely different things. One is all about selling ideas to get you interested in funding the concept and the other one is based on an actual game almost ready to go with exciting features.

    As someone who didn't get caught up in the KS hype, I'm perfectly happy with the pace of the CU development and read everything about the things they're doing... and it all looks very good to me.

    I'll get hyped when there's something nearly ready to play.
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  • KajidourdenKajidourden Panama City, FLMember RarePosts: 1,433
    Back/invest in crowfall.  It's actually got something to show for the money its raised and it's quite good for a pre-alpha product.
  • will75will75 Fatalis,The Combine, SoB... Semi retired, waiting for next big thing.., FLMember UncommonPosts: 365
    Back/invest in crowfall.  It's actually got something to show for the money its raised and it's quite good for a pre-alpha product.
    i'm an it tester. new baby. i login once a month, i just logged in and am amzed by the new graphics, 
  • KajidourdenKajidourden Panama City, FLMember RarePosts: 1,433
    My video isn't around anymore (not twitch saavy) but I did about an hour and a half stream on how the game works, etc. 
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member RarePosts: 1,726
    Just checking in on the status of this game again.  According to this site, they planned a 2017 release.  They don't even have a playable alpha yet.  They're still working on basic systems.  Did they write their own game engine or something?  If so, man, that sounds like a sentence to an eternity in hell for a small, indie developer, even if they have experience in a successful, ancient MMO like DAoC.
  • ConstantineMerusConstantineMerus LondonMember RarePosts: 1,116


    Just checking in on the status of this game again.  According to this site, they planned a 2017 release.  They don't even have a playable alpha yet.  They're still working on basic systems.  Did they write their own game engine or something?  If so, man, that sounds like a sentence to an eternity in hell for a small, indie developer, even if they have experience in a successful, ancient MMO like DAoC.



    AFAIK They are working on releasing the beta, not the alpha. And it will be a real beta, not those broken shell of an idea other companies release as beta then work on years to add their original features. CU beta is oldschool beta. 

    I could be wrong though, I hope I'm not.

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  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member RarePosts: 1,726
    You may be right.  As a backer, I'm currently waiting to hear back as to whether there's any kind of game world to log into and test right now, alpha or otherwise.  When I checked a couple of months ago, this was not the case.
  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INMember RarePosts: 5,367
    Once someone is paying money they no longer view it as a beta, but as a paid product that many feel they now have input on, at least as far as vocalizing their displeasure.
  • MightyUncleanMightyUnclean Member RarePosts: 1,726
    Yeah, still in the systems development stage.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,441


    Just checking in on the status of this game again.  According to this site, they planned a 2017 release.  They don't even have a playable alpha yet.  They're still working on basic systems.  Did they write their own game engine or something?  If so, man, that sounds like a sentence to an eternity in hell for a small, indie developer, even if they have experience in a successful, ancient MMO like DAoC.


    Yes, they actually did write their own game engine...  The fact that you don't know this is telling.


    I've visited the CU site one time to look at the pledge tier pricing and even I know they built their own engine...  The fact that you don't know that but are complaining about the progression rate of development makes you seem less a concerned backer and more a childish backer stomping your feet because you can't have everything overnight.

    Oh, and MJ has also already updated us directly here on how well the engine is performing so far.  So again, maybe take some time to educate yourself about the game before bitching about it?

    image
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 14,445
    Hype a game up, tell your "followers" to hype a game up, and then expect people to wait 4 - 8 years until anyone who didn't pay $1000 or more to see results. What could possibly go wrong.

    We can make all the excuses we want for the industry, and I know software development is hard and time consuming, but to ignore the consumer / end user fatigue in this scenario is recipe for problems.

    The crowd funded mmos seems to be ignoring this or, at the very least, closing their eyes to the situation and hoping for the best. At least it will make an interesting postmortem discussion as these projects near their resolution, whatever that is.
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  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,278






    Just checking in on the status of this game again.  According to this site, they planned a 2017 release.  They don't even have a playable alpha yet.  They're still working on basic systems.  Did they write their own game engine or something?  If so, man, that sounds like a sentence to an eternity in hell for a small, indie developer, even if they have experience in a successful, ancient MMO like DAoC.




    Yes, they actually did write their own game engine...  The fact that you don't know this is telling.


    I've visited the CU site one time to look at the pledge tier pricing and even I know they built their own engine...  The fact that you don't know that but are complaining about the progression rate of development makes you seem less a concerned backer and more a childish backer stomping your feet because you can't have everything overnight.

    Oh, and MJ has also already updated us directly here on how well the engine is performing so far.  So again, maybe take some time to educate yourself about the game before bitching about it?


    I agree not knowing they built their own engine makes me question what llevel if backer he is.

    Also the fact he posted his update one day after the weekly Friday email  I just read and the live stream Tyler also held makes me question if he's aware of them.

    He is correct on the point they have not promised a beta date yet, which every backer is painfully aware of.

    When the beta date announcement finally comes it won't be on external websites backers first hear of it.


    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


  • postlarvalpostlarval Member EpicPosts: 1,560

    Torval said:

    Hype a game up, tell your "followers" to hype a game up, and then expect people to wait 4 - 8 years until anyone who didn't pay $1000 or more to see results. What could possibly go wrong.


    ^ This

    Haven't you heard? It's the new business model for success in the genre presently. All the cool kids are doing it.
    postlarval's gaming resolutions for 2018 (and the rest of 2017):
    I will not play any game with a cash shop, f2p or p2p. ~~ I will not play any game that allows real currency to influence the game economy in any way. ~~ I will not play any game that doesn't understand the concept of risk vs. reward. ~~ I will not play any online game that isn't centered around grouping, teamwork, and community. ~~ I will not play any game that considers end-game the "real" game. ~~ I will not pay to play any early access game. ~~ I will not buy or play any games through a distribution platform that uses DRM. ~~ I will not break any of these "rules" if I cannot find a game to play. I will do without.
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