People say games have changed, some people say communities in games have changed, some say its a bit of both.
I will make an example of a current issue in one of the games I play.
In WoW there has been an increase of incidents where people for no particular reason are kicked from groups. This happens in 5 man content in particular, both the easy lowlvl dungeons and the current more challenging Mythic + dungeons.
In the lowlvl dungeons the reasons can be many, low dps, kicked, no heirlooms, kicked, say hi, kicked, need afk for 1 min, kicked.
Naturally there are also the more valid reason why people can be removed, if they are offline for awhile or a bot has clawed their way into the dungeon or people going rage tantrum to the extreme.
So there are both valid and the less valid reasons to remove people.
A newer tendency is that people simply just kick for the fun of it.
Or the more indirect reason, which is my own personal guess, is that a crowd are kicking people to prove a point, that the dungeons /votekick system is pretty bad.
Blizzard redesigned the dungeons so xp is only really gained after killing last boss, so the fun thing to do is to kick people right before that one.
Of course accounting for time spent in a queue, + time doing the dungeon and then people being removed at the end, could and does annoy quite a few people.
Personally I have been involved in dungeons where these things happen every now and then, its not every dungeon, but every 5 or so dungeons, Id say.
My own personal regret is that voting no, very very rarely leads to saving people from random votekicks.
But that is another story.
Then we have mythics, where the new fun thing to do is to take a group hostage. Groups for mythic + have to be made manually and can only be completed with the same 5 people who entered the dungeon from the start.
The new trend is for tanks to stop the pulling at last boss and ask for gold, where upon they let the timer run out, so people wont get their acces to chests, if they do not pay up. (Granted this transaction can only be made between people on same server).
However all these things above can seem horrible and reason enough to not do group content.
But I am also playing other MMORPGs, where these things actually does not happen or I have maybe been extremely lucky, that I cant say.
This is not to lash out at WoW in particular, but the differences in communities are noticeable.
But who is to blame?
As in if we find the reason and the source for the above things happening, would it be possible to find solutions?
If we go by the idea some people share, that some games have a much more unpleasant crowd of people playing, then we maybe have to realise, that these games will not last forever.
If we then claim that its entirely a certain crowds fault, then we will have the same crowd incoming into new games?.
Are developers prepared for that?
Are we?
So who or what is to blame, how do we find the source?
And can we prepare for this in future games, where we would like to relive like "old times" with a different kind of community?
I know a lot of you will lash out at things like LFD and LFR tools, but I will have to mention, that these things happens both within and outside these grouping tools.
So what do we do?
Can we do anything?
I know developers always have these things as a concern, but the issue I see, is that several similar MMORPGs can have the same tools, yet in one game they are abused, in another they are not.
Comments
All the developers can do is attempt to build a game that discourages dickheads and encourages positive behaviour. As we're talking about anti-social behaviour, that means designing a game where positive social interaction is encouraged and negative social interactions are discouraged. Getting rid of LFR/LFG tools is one big way forwards in that regard. Putting more emphasis on grouping early on would help. Removing all cross-server tools would help.
Sadly, building a game where being social in a positive way is the focus goes against most market research. Most gamers seem to want solo activities with grouping being as convenient as possible. This means social responsibility just isn't a priority.
In the early days of lotro, there was tons of group content, some of it "forced". There were no group finders or anything like that, no cross server stuff. This meant that your reputation mattered. Ninja looters and general dickheads became quickly known on our server and shunned from all groups, effectively forcing them out of the game or forcing them to change their ways.
Who is to blame ? The players are.
You know, something that might help with this is a system that allows players to tag other players as a "jerk" or a "nice guy" or something like that. Not a general up or down vote that everyone can see but just for your own character/account.
So when you look at that character or even just see his name in chat there would be some obvious visual indicator that you tagged him negatively or positively in the past; like his name appearing red for negative or silver for positive or something like that.
You could then take it further and make it so players could set a filter on the group finder tool so that they wouldn't be matched with anyone they have tagged negatively. In this way the people who make a habit of being jerks would gradually find their pool of potential grouping partners shrinking.
As a way of giving feedback you could let players see in their character stats how many other players have tagged them negatively and how many have tagged them positively.
I dunno, just a thought.
I understand the premise of your suggestion, which appear to be a personal suggestion to me specifically, rather than a general suggestion to the overall wider phenomenon.
Because it seems directed to me, I will try to give insight to how I handle these things, which in some way I do realise can contribute to the issues we are facing.
When I log into a MMORPG, I want to relax and just play the game. I dont want issues with people who act controversial in terms of group play.
I admit this is naive to believe possible at all times, so in moderation I and many others I assume, compromise to a certain degree.
We allow a certain amount of unwanted presence.
Over time the "unwanted" content from people, who find new ways to annoy their fellow human beings, has increased.
And so the compromises made becomes more frequent, as we adjust to the circumstances.
This has over time lead to actually not reporting a whole lot, to the point of not reporting at all.
Would games be overall better, if we reported every offence (that is often after all very subjective)?
And if we did, is there a guarantee that a GM would in fact help with the off key crowd?
I think a large issue atm might be that people have in fact been reporting a lot of people, but they have noticed the issues does not go away and they have given up?
Are we who have to police others when logging into a game, that we'd just like to enjoy, meant to be the ones taking time off to write reports?
I can not judge whether we really need to engage our self to such a degree, that a game session is meant to be broken up every now and then, to focus on a person, who already made the game a less nice experience.
On the other hand, I am in no way saying that the responsibility does not overall include us all on all sides of the fence, and in that regard you raise a fair point, also worth of discussion.
And I can easily see myself as part of the issue spreading since some of us simply stopped reporting.
But I believe we stopped doing so, because we saw that it does not work and we turn into the fools for trying?
I mean look at this website everyday you have bitter old vets complaining about something, they are a big reason more gamers don't come to sites like this and the games forums.
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Perfect
Now that you confessed, all we need now is for you to cover 12 years of lost subs from estimated 25 millions players who left WoW because of you
I say 25 millions, cause the last accounted total lost subs was around 100 millions? And Im sure they did not all! leave only because of you.
So I'll let Blizz be kind to you, will let you slip by only covering for the 25 mill subs!
Seems fair
I.. am.. kidding.. (mostly).. (no, seriously.. I am kidding).. I purposely cut the quote short for comedy.. The answer to the question is people.. People with near-total anonymity and zero care about etiquette.. The only way to regain any form of civilized social interaction is for Devs to enforce hard and fast rules.. Tough ones, but fair ones.. And to be up front with the desire to create a decent environment and how penalties are implemented and why..
Will this be liked? Definitely not by many (especially those who view the right to be an @SS as some sort of god-given one).. Others would breath a sigh of relief.. Its a calculated gamble though for a Dev, since you have to risk potential loss of customers versus creating a happier environment..
..because we're gamers, damn it!! - William Massachusetts (Log Horizon)
In the old days, you could scam people for their items, since every item was tradeable. I remember there was a scammer in Asheron's Call, to trade at the time you'd have to drop item on ground and other person does the same. This was a very big scam technique there. Well, I had rare armor, traded with him, he ran up and picked it up and ran back to his item (because his run speed was faster than mine) and I was left with nothing.
In WoW, early on, you could "fake" pricing of items on the Auction House. You could get 10s of thousands of gold that way on a junk item, which was a LOT back then.
This leads me to my main point. When people did this, or were rude to the community or were douchebags or whatever, you'd be blacklisted on that server. Everywhere you go, no one would want to trade, group or do anything with you. Become a scammer in Asheron's Call? Even go to other servers (at the time) and no one still would want anything to do with you. Be a douche in a group in WoW? Again, the entire server begins to hate you no matter where you go.
People actually were more careful, nicer, when there was a threat of scamming or being rude to the community.
Now, look at EVE. Its scam person paradise. Yet, the community overall (except goonsquad is a plague of stupid, upon any game they touch) is better for it. Become a known scammer? Suddenly you are hunted down, bounties and no one wants anything to do with you except other scammers/pirates. Other people rally behind each other to take down the scammer. What if EVE had no scamming? Well, suddenly no one would care about being douchebags or being rude to people. The community would become very terrible, like WoW community turned into. Everyone would suddenly care only about themselves, instead of others.
On top of that. Grouping would be non-existent, and if people did group, group members would kill each other. Why? Because there would be no common cause to work with each other, no threat of being scammed and suddenly everyone is only out for themselves instead of looking out to their friends or other people.
That is my thoughts anyway.
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This is obviously because __________ (insert pet theory about game design or human behavior here.)
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Bugs creates a common "enemy" which allows people to play with their own creativity to overcome.
The old games were full of bugs and now that it has crossed my mind, I have to say I love ESOs bugs.
I hope they never fix them.
Whereas polished games are boring?
Of course if a game is only bugs, its too much, but a few bugs here and there, gives a game some personality?
Unfinished thought of course, but still, maybe a common "enemy thing" has a relevance.
And we have enough people volunteering for the role as "idiot". In a sense we will never really run out of these kinds of people to lean up against to build our community of "We are certainly not idiots" (Because we agree that the other guy over there is our spank toy.)
Maybe WoW has been such a huge succes for so many years, simply because it has so many arbitrary gamers who gets bored a lot.
It turns a few things upside down, but I dont mind exploring many ideas personally, though I understand if my train of thought might come off as a bit "out in space". O.o
I remember the days when everyone was saying they want to game to have fun and not feel like it is a job.
So what do gamer's do now?They religiously enter raid after raid for some virtual items that have absolutely no value at all.They are not even your virtual items,they will always belong to the developer.
People have so forgotten what gaming should be about,especially online gaming and the reason it became so popular in the first place.To meet like minded people to share the adventure online,perhaps to gain new friends.Instead it has become a selfish cult,what supreme loot can i get for myself today and who can i get to help me get it.I still remember being told off by group members because i was taking my time trying to help the healer who did not understand how to do a macro.Everyone in a rush,nobody cares about the other person unless that person can help that selfish player.
The whole idea of mmo+rpg has been left somewhere in the past,fun,where is it,people are treating these games like a job.It is so bad,we don't even know what a mmorpg is anymore,is it a form of gaining level numbers? Now it is all raiding,esport or advertising in a work like manner....welcome to the deteriorating world of gaming.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
In this day & age it may be just a griefing thing because kids go to malls now to fight each other so I really don't know what is what anymore.
Feel you.
And guilds can be great. I am in a great guild myself and there are usually people to do these things with. Also I think I must have a like for self harm, cause I dont mind pugging at all. Maybe less these days due to the repetitive content, but prior I have never minded.
The issue is that while I persist and keep sticking around in WoW, people keep dropping out like flies, from guilds and the servers overall, often with the complaint that guilds are empty and or not social at all, and the community is awful.
And these are often also people who have also been around for years, but who just finally have had enough.
And new players seems to just dip toes and then they are gone again.
But despite the issues in WoW, its still my "home", but I cant stop people from leaving and I cant stop the reasons they are either.
Watching how people are exiting, I realise it will be my turn sooner or later and for a new MMORPG to become a succes, we kind of need a community that will stick with it.
How to do that, I dont know, cause its like none of us really understands what is going on and in turn we are not learning from our mistakes either.
But at the end of the day, we just end up adjusting to what ever comes anyway.
Would be interesting to go back in time and put old EQ players into LFD conditions and see if they acted more like jerks. If I was to place weight on one or the other though I'd say the new meta conditions are more the culprit. Put the community in a place where attitude can inhibit progression and I think the effects would be noticeable.
Im not saying you are wrong in any way.
I am just curious, cause it seems to be, that the harder the content in a game gets, the more fighting occur between people?
Maybe I am understanding things through a wrong perspective, but that is what it looks like to me.
The harder fights, the more kicking and the more divided a community seems to get?
I play on a RP PVE server on WoW, and the community is amazing. Granted, its Moonguard, and Elwynn is...uh...just avoid it. Outside of that one little zone, there is RP all over (actual RP, not...ERP...). The community is really friendly. Same is true for Wyrmstooth Accord, the other "big" RP PVE server.
Go on a "hardcore" PvP server, or/and where all the top raiders are? Suddenly the community becomes VERY toxic. Its like a night and day difference.
My Skyrim, Fallout 4, Starbound and WoW + other game mods at MODDB:
https://www.moddb.com/mods/skyrim-anime-overhaul
Competition is. Specifically in the PvP server example, direct competition between players breeds an "us vs. them" mentality that naturally leads to conflict. Raiding is, indirectly, affected by this "us vs. them" mindset as well. This effect is more pronounced the more dedicated an individual is to furthering their own (and their guild's own) interests' at the exclusion of others'.
The PvE server removes all (or almost all) competition. The lack of focus on high-end raiding means there's less competition to be "first" or outfit yourself, your alts, and all of your guildmates in those spiffy epics. Roleplaying generally is a cooperative effort, too (even when you are roleplaying a character hostile towards another player), which blunts the effect.
I believe competition is the true culprit here. It doesn't force toxicity; don't get me wrong. Simply put: as a dark, humid space provides ample breeding grounds for mold, so does competition produce ample breeding grounds for toxicity.