Playing GW2 WvW for a long time sometimes tire the game out. What will CU do differently here?

MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCMember UncommonPosts: 6,591
After playing and experiencing GW2's PvP RvR known as WvW, it was a lot of fun, but long term is kind of tiresome. 

What will Camelot Unchained do differently to make this all out PvP game fun and everlasting where GW2 WvW may have failed at?

image

Comments

  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin BelgradeMember RarePosts: 977
    There's no guarantee that something so subjective as fun will be everlasting =)

    Unlike GW2, CU and it's engine will be built around very large scale warfare, with Realm pride  being essential (unlike GW's red vs blue team), with important and very robust both building and crafting and you can find some other important differences in CU Wiki on Zergs, say:

    • Huge world, divided into islands and with limited fast travel & respawn options;
    • Veilstorms will be triggered by strong concentration of magic, thus being much more likely to appear where the zergs are
    • Some forms of crowd control could be suitable for smaller groups fighting the bigger ones;
    • Death will have consequences, and resurrecting or respawning and returning to combat will not be as easy as it is common in modern games;
    • Collision detection [4] will encourage using shieldwalls/bottlenecks, team formations and such strategical teamplay;
    • Losing fort, keep or stabilizer will hurt much more than in some other games, discouraging both zergs and keep trading;
    • Some of the intended measures for balancing Realm populations can also come into play;
  • ShinimasShinimas Member UncommonPosts: 64
    Well, one of GW2's problems, arguably, is their lack of meaningful rewards and progression in WvW/RvR. While CU will also have horizontal-ish kind of progression, which might be reminiscent of GW2's overall progression in many ways, it focuses on the RvR experience, promising lots of incentives to keep playing. It's been said that they want to make small group and solo play possible, even though the format is skewed towards zergs by default, so roaming might be easier and more enjoyable and you won't have to keep zerging around all the time. Your enemies will stay the same, they won't be rotating out, so you will be able to form not only friendships but rivalries, which actually matters a whole lot if I am to speak from my own experience playing different games.

    None of that actually guarantees the game will be fun, of course. It's not so much about concepts, but rather about the way it's actually implemented into the game.
  • some-clueless-guysome-clueless-guy ItalyMember UncommonPosts: 63
    I know very little about all upcoming games, and I'd like to keep it that way, so that in eventuality that I decide to play them, I might enjoy them better.

    I can say however that CU can do it better by designing the game around it. GW2 is not designed around it in my opinion. Not to say that WvW is an after thought, but I think that, while the three-faction pvp IS the best choice when it comes to large scale pvp, the game remains a themepark and you can't really enjoy the politics or meta-game that you could see in Daoc or can see in EVE. From what I gather, CU devs are going for that.
    If I'm wrong I apologize, but I like to remain a bit ignorant on the subject until these games release.
  • ste2000ste2000 londonMember EpicPosts: 6,194
    edited January 17
    Like apple and oranges.
    Yes they are both 3 way RvR (or WvW if you prefer) but the similarities ends pretty much there,
    GW2 PvP is an Esport, everyone wears the same gear and are on the same level, it's a glorified capture the flag kind of game.
    CU is an open world PvP, players will have different gear, different set ups and there will be territory conquest and politics.
    I am not saying one is better than the other as they attract different crowds, I personally like CU PvP better.

    Post edited by ste2000 on

  • gervaise1gervaise1 .Member RarePosts: 4,333
    edited January 17
    Expecting the team to come up with something different is placing - I suggest - an impossible burden on them.

    The same question has been around for 30 or so years. UO, DAoC, BF, SWTOR, CoD, Eve, CoV, Crowfall, ESO PvP, Darkfall, GW1, Portal. Yes these are not all PC games and they are not all fantasy but at a core level they are the same.

    What a developer can do is limited. They can add progression - up to and including things like aging leading to perma-death. Provide a greater mix of "stuff" - capture the flag, campaigns that reset whatever. Provide different settings - maps basically. 

    The bottomline is that all experiences lose their lustre and become boring over time.

    GW2 selected a mix of "stuff" that you enjoyed for a period of time; CU will adopts a set of "stuff" that may - or may not - appeal to you. If it does appeal to you the end result however will be the same.
    Post edited by gervaise1 on
  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNMember UncommonPosts: 589

    I loved RvR in daoc, but the WvW in GW2 was really underwhelming. Here’s why (in my opinion)

     

    WvW:

    -Combat was extremely repetitive and the classes played one way. Only 3-4 abilities you ever used.

    -The rewards for holding keeps/territory were not fun or interesting:  example: 5% more to coin, 5% exp, rep  etc.   not very exciting.

    - Taking a keep was too easy. Not a lot of incentive to defend. (lots of keep swapping for the exp reward)

    - Mega servers made the “community” watered down. No realm pride. Too many guilds/players to make anyone meaningful.

    - No meaningful character progression in WvW : exampled Realm points/realm abilities

     

    RvR:

    - Control of Darkness Falls was extremely important to make money. The exp in the dungeon was top notch (plus the pvp was super fun).

    - Holding relics was a substantial increase in character power.

    - Progression in RvR made your character very powerful.

    - Realm ranks gave you a distinction for achieving a high level.

    - People knew players and guilds by name and could invoke some serious fear if you saw death spam from known players, or groups running around wearing a well-known guild emblem.

    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • filmoretfilmoret Palm Bay, FLMember EpicPosts: 4,906
    edited January 18
    ste2000 said:
    Like apple and oranges.
    Yes they are both 3 way RvR (or WvW if you prefer) but the similarities ends pretty much there,
    GW2 PvP is an Esport, everyone wears the same gear and are on the same level, it's a glorified capture the flag kind of game.
    CU is an open world PvP, players will have different gear, different set ups and there will be territory conquest and politics.
    I am not saying one is better than the other as they attract different crowds, I personally like CU PvP better.

    GW2 pvp and GW2 WVW are two different things my friend.


    Best thing to do is look at DAOC, ESO, GW2 and take notes then make comparisons then build something solid using their ideas mixed with some of your own.
    Post edited by filmoret on
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • ste2000ste2000 londonMember EpicPosts: 6,194
    filmoret said:
    ste2000 said:

    GW2 pvp and GW2 WVW are two different things my friend.

    In what way my friend my friend?
    Care to elaborate?

  • xyzercrimexyzercrime Bogor, West JavaMember RarePosts: 851
    ste2000 said:
    filmoret said:
    ste2000 said:

    GW2 pvp and GW2 WVW are two different things my friend.

    In what way my friend my friend?
    Care to elaborate?

    Dude, you said "my friend" twice, why? Is he that meaningful to you? :winky:



    When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
  • xyzercrimexyzercrime Bogor, West JavaMember RarePosts: 851
    After playing and experiencing GW2's PvP RvR known as WvW, it was a lot of fun, but long term is kind of tiresome. 

    What will Camelot Unchained do differently to make this all out PvP game fun and everlasting where GW2 WvW may have failed at?
    Fun is subjective, period.

    Would you call a rape fun? If you are the victimizer then maybe yes, but not so much for the victim.

    To be fair here, you didn't even point out WHAT ASPECT GW2 failed at. Maybe you can start your topic from there, and suggest solution so CU won't repeat the mistake.



    When you don't want the truth, you will make up your own truth.
  • filmoretfilmoret Palm Bay, FLMember EpicPosts: 4,906
    edited January 18
    ste2000 said:
    filmoret said:
    ste2000 said:

    GW2 pvp and GW2 WVW are two different things my friend.

    In what way my friend my friend?
    Care to elaborate?

    The WVW is like open world pvp.

    The SPVP is an arena style pvp where levels, skills are locked and gear is also locked.
    Post edited by filmoret on
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • rojoArcueidrojoArcueid GinnungagapMember EpicPosts: 8,684
    I haven't seen the first game where doing the same thing for a long time still feel fresh and fun in the long term. It doesn't exist. After investing so much effort in a game or particular content, people just get used to doing it over and over even if it's not fun anymore, as long as they keep getting something out of it (rewards/progression/anything). That's why mmos need to evolve with time, to keep content fresh long term.

    My thoughts.

    image
  • nennafirnennafir The Frozen NorthMember UncommonPosts: 313
    edited January 18
    There's no guarantee that something so subjective as fun will be everlasting =)

    Unlike GW2, CU and it's engine will be built around very large scale warfare, with Realm pride  being essential (unlike GW's red vs blue team), with important and very robust both building and crafting and you can find some other important differences in CU Wiki on Zergs, say:

    • Huge world, divided into islands and with limited fast travel & respawn options;
    • Veilstorms will be triggered by strong concentration of magic, thus being much more likely to appear where the zergs are
    • Some forms of crowd control could be suitable for smaller groups fighting the bigger ones;
    • Death will have consequences, and resurrecting or respawning and returning to combat will not be as easy as it is common in modern games;
    • Collision detection [4] will encourage using shieldwalls/bottlenecks, team formations and such strategical teamplay;
    • Losing fort, keep or stabilizer will hurt much more than in some other games, discouraging both zergs and keep trading;
    • Some of the intended measures for balancing Realm populations can also come into play;
    (1) Veilstorms.  I dunno.  This will probably be a griefing mechanic more than anything else, I suspect.

    (2) "Death will have consequences."  Please no.  The more you have consequences for death, the more you encourage people to bot/hack/cheat/etc.  Just normal death is fine.

    The main thing you need is some easy mechanic for the two losing teams to team up on the winning team and not hurt each other.  Like maybe they can declare a "truce" if over 50% of people on each side agree, and then both show as friendly to each other.
    Post edited by nennafir on
  • filmoretfilmoret Palm Bay, FLMember EpicPosts: 4,906
    Unit collision is very good idea.  Be careful of exploits and griefing from own faction because that always happens when this thing is implemented.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • WellzyCWellzyC Stillwater, MNMember UncommonPosts: 589


    (2) "Death will have consequences."  Please no.  The more you have consequences for death, the more you encourage people to bot/hack/cheat/etc.  Just normal death is fine.


    LOL... what?  Think about what you just said. No or little death penalty. So you want 30 second rez wave after rez wave to keep attacking your keep.  That sounds awful. 

    If my guild defeats an attacking group on my keep, I want them to go away. 

    Victory is much sweeter when defeat stings.  There is no thrill in killing an opponent when they spawn 100 feet from where they died.


    The way mmo's were: Community, Exploration, Character Development, Conquest.

    The way mmo's are now : Cut-Scenes,Cut-Scenes, solo Questing, Cut-Scenes...


    www.CeaselessGuild.com

  • nursonurso Member UncommonPosts: 47
    edited January 19
    nennafir said:
    Please no.  The more you have consequences for death, the more you encourage people to bot/hack/cheat/etc.  Just normal death is fine
    CU has no gear-drop on death and also achievements are only distributed once per day, thus there need to be another way to make fights meaningful.
    nennafir said:
    The main thing you need is some easy mechanic for the two losing teams to team up on the winning team and not hurt each other.  Like maybe they can declare a "truce" if over 50% of people on each side agree, and then both show as friendly to each other.
    Just FYI, they are currently working on a special group mechanic that encompasses the whole realm ... maybe that's a hint at crusades ;)
    Post edited by nurso on
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 12,986
    You need a deep robust role playing design within any pvp system,otherwise might as well just play a first person shooter.
    It needs to feel like it would in real,there would be REASON why you are attacking and not just because it is pvp and i logged in to pvp,that is NOT immersive game play.

    To pull it off well and not just a world where players are flagged to pvp,you need a lot of systems,assets and influences.I personally like to see npc factions in these type of games and lots of them,yes it creates a huge AI log jam on bandwidth but that is what i want,otherwise it is not fun to me.

    I guess to put it using an example,i want a Age of Empires with say 4-12 with those npc factions that are working/building  and attacking but also adding in real player factions and on that note,i want LOTS,not 2/3/4 or even5 ,that is not enough to be fully immersive.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • JamesGoblinJamesGoblin BelgradeMember RarePosts: 977
    nennafir said:
    There's no guarantee that something so subjective as fun will be everlasting =)

    Unlike GW2, CU and it's engine will be built around very large scale warfare, with Realm pride  being essential (unlike GW's red vs blue team), with important and very robust both building and crafting and you can find some other important differences in CU Wiki on Zergs, say:

    • Huge world, divided into islands and with limited fast travel & respawn options;
    • Veilstorms will be triggered by strong concentration of magic, thus being much more likely to appear where the zergs are
    • Some forms of crowd control could be suitable for smaller groups fighting the bigger ones;
    • Death will have consequences, and resurrecting or respawning and returning to combat will not be as easy as it is common in modern games;
    • Collision detection [4] will encourage using shieldwalls/bottlenecks, team formations and such strategical teamplay;
    • Losing fort, keep or stabilizer will hurt much more than in some other games, discouraging both zergs and keep trading;
    • Some of the intended measures for balancing Realm populations can also come into play;
    (1) Veilstorms.  I dunno.  This will probably be a griefing mechanic more than anything else, I suspect.

    (2) "Death will have consequences."  Please no.  The more you have consequences for death, the more you encourage people to bot/hack/cheat/etc.  Just normal death is fine.

    The main thing you need is some easy mechanic for the two losing teams to team up on the winning team and not hurt each other.  Like maybe they can declare a "truce" if over 50% of people on each side agree, and then both show as friendly to each other.
    Veilstorms will be happening randomly, and will likely require lots of players to group and act (hundreds, maybe more). Griefing with it should be...very hard.

    Bots, hackers and cheaters will have hard time against CU's strong server-side control and some other unusual features. This is not BDO, AA or whatever else you have in mind, and CU having box+sub will hurt these folks even more after bans.
  • RnjypsyRnjypsy Member UncommonPosts: 36
    ste2000 said:
    Like apple and oranges.
    Yes they are both 3 way RvR (or WvW if you prefer) but the similarities ends pretty much there,
    GW2 PvP is an Esport, everyone wears the same gear and are on the same level, it's a glorified capture the flag kind of game.
    CU is an open world PvP, players will have different gear, different set ups and there will be territory conquest and politics.
    I am not saying one is better than the other as they attract different crowds, I personally like CU PvP better.

    In GW2 Structured PvP or Spvp is completely separate from WvW or their version of RvR. 

Sign In or Register to comment.