Why I think beta testing is ruining the industry

Unrivaled1Unrivaled1 Member UncommonPosts: 34
I expect this will be a hotly contested topic, but I've been trying to put my finger on why MMO's are losing their appeal to me the past few years and I now feel it is because beta testing (which I know is completely necessary to bring a polished product to market) allows a select amount of players to gain carnal knowledge of the inner mechanics and geography of the game and therefore gives them a HUGE advantage at release that other players cannot hope to overcome.

Another way of putting it is that what I want in an online game is to compete against my fellow players in all things. Leveling, resource collection, crafting, building, expanding, etc. All of it. And I cannot even begin to do so any more, courtesy of beta players cornering the market on all aspects of competition in the game right on Day 1.

Again, I know beta testing is integral and necessary but at the same time it is making it pointless, for me at least and I believe there are many others out there that feel this way as well, to even bother playing in the first place if we're just going to take a distant 732nd place in all things competitive.

And that is just horseshit to me, frankly. I don't have a viable alternative as I am not a game developer, but something would have to change about it in order to reel me back in. Now, maybe I am no great loss in the grand scheme of things, but there is a buttload of new f2p games out every year and competition for a limited number of gamers is fierce. I'd like to think the game that solves this issue might reap a healthy market share.

Thoughts?
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Comments

  • AlbatroesAlbatroes Member EpicPosts: 3,182
    Maybe you're wanting to say paid alpha/beta testing. That would make more sense. Alpha/beta testing in general isn't going to sway anything if its done right (like devs/publishers actually taking time out and giving an F as to who they select rather trying to make a quick buck off of desperate people). The problem with most mmorpgs in current generation is that they are greatly influenced by money and competition. The mmorpg scene was never large to begin with. It may have seemed big because they were about 90% less competition 10-15 years ago as opposed to now. Most (if not all mmorpgs) back then had some kind of pay wall, so people honestly cared more about what they invested time/money in instead of having the ability to jump from game to game every day like they can now. Then you had publishers and devs actually giving a F back then as well and were actual gamers as well instead of just "corporate." They were relate-able to the average gamer of the time mainly because things were still fresh and tech was still advancing. To summarize, greed and every person with a comp in their mother's basement is over-saturating the gaming market in general (just look at how much junk is on steam on a weekly basis that looks like its from the nes era) because there a plenty of fools who are desperate enough to find something "good" in this sea of garbage.
  • berenimberenim KasselMember UncommonPosts: 149
    First problem is the mentality of having to be competetive in every aspect, instead of cooperative. Noone would feel at disadvantege in a PVE game if they felt cooperative, since they could get help and give help. Nowadays everyone seems to feel like "I have to be number one! I have to be the first to... XYZ". Those are games, not work.
    As for the general problem of knowing stuff before release... This is the second problem. This come with story driven "you are the hero" MMORPGS. Since you need to test quests and storylines you need to use real quest areas. In betas I have been those usually were limited to one or two maps and one instance, but still you get the "been there... done that" feeling when starting. If you are planning a game like Anarchy Online or Ryzom you could easily circumvent those problems with special testing areas, since you do not need to test quest lines, but balancing and mechanics. Drop mobs and entry points (for those who don't know: Anarchy Online had mission terminals that would let you draw missions, you chose one and were sent to an entry point with a procedurally generated "dungeon" and Ryzom is more sandboxy), some merchants and mats and let players loos to give you feedback. On release just plop them to the real world they do not know, perhaps but some look and feel that was set on beta island. That would be how I would handle it.

    image

  • LoudWisperLoudWisper Member UncommonPosts: 73
    can you name a mmo that has not went through beta testing?  
  • SavageHorizonSavageHorizon ParisMember RarePosts: 3,260
    There are no more beta tests they are called early access for a fee lol. Where has the op been for the last eight years. 

    The last true beta I was in was Vanguard. 




  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko JohannesburgMember EpicPosts: 6,440
    Not entirely sure what the OP is really complaining about.

    The only thing that makes sense is that the OP is protesting against paid Early Access. 

    It can't be beta testing itself, because that has been a feature of MMO development since the dawn of the industry. Yet the OP has only experienced a problem in "the past few years".

    TL:DR: Everything should be free, except the stuff I don't care about, which they can sell in the Cash Shop ! :lol:
  • ste2000ste2000 londonMember EpicPosts: 6,194
    edited January 11
    I Beta tested EQ2 and WoW in 2003-04, AoC and Warhammer in 2006-07, and pretty much every other MMO after that.
    Beta test is not something new and that's not what killed MMORPGs.
    Shallow design and lack of social interaction is the problem.

    Post edited by ste2000 on

  • Unrivaled1Unrivaled1 Member UncommonPosts: 34
    Not entirely sure what the OP is really complaining about.

    The only thing that makes sense is that the OP is protesting against paid Early Access. 

    It can't be beta testing itself, because that has been a feature of MMO development since the dawn of the industry. Yet the OP has only experienced a problem in "the past few years".

    TL:DR: Everything should be free, except the stuff I don't care about, which they can sell in the Cash Shop ! :lol:
    Paid Early Access would not grant the player with carnal knowledge that gives them a leg up in all aspects of game play without previously having been a beta tester as well.

    I don't expect everyone to have the same issue with the concept as I do myself, but for me personally I see it in game after game that beta testers on release day already have a comprehensive plan in place to dominate all aspects of the game that they have previously researched throughout the beta test.

    And in that scenario I have to ask why bother playing when a select few have already "won"?

    @berenim:  I play online to be competitive. That is what I derive satisfaction in gaming from. Others do so from cooperative play so likely will have less issue with the results of beta testing.
  • ceratop001ceratop001 canyon lake, CAMember RarePosts: 1,238
    I think he/she is just tired and bored. Made some good points and believe me many feel your pain. There is no answer to the melodrama. Personally I think there is just an over abundance of games, and it is hard to find a fun active community that is dedicated for the long term.
     
  • Gymrat313Gymrat313 Lincoln Park, MIMember UncommonPosts: 127
    Not entirely sure what the OP is really complaining about.

    The only thing that makes sense is that the OP is protesting against paid Early Access. 

    It can't be beta testing itself, because that has been a feature of MMO development since the dawn of the industry. Yet the OP has only experienced a problem in "the past few years".

    TL:DR: Everything should be free, except the stuff I don't care about, which they can sell in the Cash Shop ! :lol:
    Paid Early Access would not grant the player with carnal knowledge that gives them a leg up in all aspects of game play without previously having been a beta tester as well.

    I don't expect everyone to have the same issue with the concept as I do myself, but for me personally I see it in game after game that beta testers on release day already have a comprehensive plan in place to dominate all aspects of the game that they have previously researched throughout the beta test.

    And in that scenario I have to ask why bother playing when a select few have already "won"?

    @berenim:  I play online to be competitive. That is what I derive satisfaction in gaming from. Others do so from cooperative play so likely will have less issue with the results of beta testing.
    If you play to be competitive and you believe being involved in beta testing to be crucial to being the best in said game and you didn't get in, then you failed already. You did not have whatever it takes(luck, skill, qualifications, etc) to get into said beta testing. 

    Such a flawed view. A great player doesn't need the extra time to learn the game, they will adapt and overcome and produce a strategy to put them where they want to be.

    image
  • MisterZebubMisterZebub Not In ESOMember EpicPosts: 2,229
    edited January 12
    I expect this will be a hotly contested topic, but I've been trying to put my finger on why MMO's are losing their appeal to me the past few years and I now feel it is because beta testing (which I know is completely necessary to bring a polished product to market) allows a select amount of players to gain carnal knowledge of the inner mechanics and geography of the game and therefore gives them a HUGE advantage at release that other players cannot hope to overcome.

    Another way of putting it is that what I want in an online game is to compete against my fellow players in all things. Leveling, resource collection, crafting, building, expanding, etc. All of it. And I cannot even begin to do so any more, courtesy of beta players cornering the market on all aspects of competition in the game right on Day 1.

    Again, I know beta testing is integral and necessary but at the same time it is making it pointless, for me at least and I believe there are many others out there that feel this way as well, to even bother playing in the first place if we're just going to take a distant 732nd place in all things competitive.

    And that is just horseshit to me, frankly. I don't have a viable alternative as I am not a game developer, but something would have to change about it in order to reel me back in. Now, maybe I am no great loss in the grand scheme of things, but there is a buttload of new f2p games out every year and competition for a limited number of gamers is fierce. I'd like to think the game that solves this issue might reap a healthy market share.

    Thoughts?
    I get where you're coming from. However I'd disagree that its actually beta testing that is mucking up MMORPGs. Let me explain why. True beta testing means a company lets players try out a game during a transitional period where the game's features are not set in stone. They are actively looking for player and potential consumer feedback to fine tune their game features to best suit their clientele and make a better game. With me so far?

    Ok what we have today, especially it seems with Asian MMORPGs, is that whole "beta" bullshit is just that, a pretend, PAYED FOR, offering where a company charges absurd prices for a game that is yet unfinished but at the same time already decided. They don't give one pissing fuck how people feel about the game, they just want to see if they've perfected it enough to get the impulse control issue morons to pay enough money for it. And then regardless of quality or completeness they will eventually release the game when they feel they can milk enough money out of the desperate addicts waiting for their next MMORPG fix.

    Underhanded wankery? Oh to be sure. Their fault? Absolutely not. Its the desperate addicts who continually throw money at any old piece of dog shit in the vain hope it will keep them entertained for a short period of time. Without a never ending parade of gullible morons with more money than sense these racketeering companies couldn't continue to exist. So they should think about that the next time their boredom starts to override their common sense.


    EDIT: Whoops! Posted this after having a few drinks and it came out far harsher than intended. Changed it so it doesn't seem like an angry rant against the OP as that was not my intention.
    Post edited by MisterZebub on

    "To be frank, I think his world had vanished long before he ever entered it, but I will say: He certainly sustained the illusion with a marvelous grace!"



  • TENTINGTENTING Member UncommonPosts: 262
    You are competitive and you are competing against your own in the game. Let the beta testers compete against each other and then you can compete against people who was not in beta?
    Sure you are on same server, so it will be hard to know who is who, but if you are competing, compete against your own? Instead of trying to fight against people whom you do not share basis with.

     Maybe set smaller goals, personal goals and or maybe join a guild and compete against your own guildmates?

    You seem to have some options, if you want to avoid your own frustration.

    Personally I can say I have never had this issue of yours, so I cant rally with you on your quest.
    To me beta testing is great! I dont like to play betas myself or at least I stopped doing so, cause it spoils the game. 

    But its great that some people are willing to, testing the servers, finding bugs, etc.

    Very useful.
     
  • Unrivaled1Unrivaled1 Member UncommonPosts: 34
    Gymrat313 said:
    Not entirely sure what the OP is really complaining about.

    The only thing that makes sense is that the OP is protesting against paid Early Access. 

    It can't be beta testing itself, because that has been a feature of MMO development since the dawn of the industry. Yet the OP has only experienced a problem in "the past few years".

    TL:DR: Everything should be free, except the stuff I don't care about, which they can sell in the Cash Shop ! :lol:
    Paid Early Access would not grant the player with carnal knowledge that gives them a leg up in all aspects of game play without previously having been a beta tester as well.

    I don't expect everyone to have the same issue with the concept as I do myself, but for me personally I see it in game after game that beta testers on release day already have a comprehensive plan in place to dominate all aspects of the game that they have previously researched throughout the beta test.

    And in that scenario I have to ask why bother playing when a select few have already "won"?

    @berenim:  I play online to be competitive. That is what I derive satisfaction in gaming from. Others do so from cooperative play so likely will have less issue with the results of beta testing.
    If you play to be competitive and you believe being involved in beta testing to be crucial to being the best in said game and you didn't get in, then you failed already. You did not have whatever it takes(luck, skill, qualifications, etc) to get into said beta testing. 

    Such a flawed view. A great player doesn't need the extra time to learn the game, they will adapt and overcome and produce a strategy to put them where they want to be.
    Which is why I feel it's complete horseshit that any player at all can get months of game time before release to refine a stratagem for success. An unfair advantage against all other players seeing the game for the first time when it is released.

    As to my failing to get into beta tests that would be a correct yardstick for measuring my ability to get into a beta test, but has fuckall to do with the issue of this post. 
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,663
    Gymrat313 said:
    Not entirely sure what the OP is really complaining about.

    The only thing that makes sense is that the OP is protesting against paid Early Access. 

    It can't be beta testing itself, because that has been a feature of MMO development since the dawn of the industry. Yet the OP has only experienced a problem in "the past few years".

    TL:DR: Everything should be free, except the stuff I don't care about, which they can sell in the Cash Shop ! :lol:
    Paid Early Access would not grant the player with carnal knowledge that gives them a leg up in all aspects of game play without previously having been a beta tester as well.

    I don't expect everyone to have the same issue with the concept as I do myself, but for me personally I see it in game after game that beta testers on release day already have a comprehensive plan in place to dominate all aspects of the game that they have previously researched throughout the beta test.

    And in that scenario I have to ask why bother playing when a select few have already "won"?

    @berenim:  I play online to be competitive. That is what I derive satisfaction in gaming from. Others do so from cooperative play so likely will have less issue with the results of beta testing.
    If you play to be competitive and you believe being involved in beta testing to be crucial to being the best in said game and you didn't get in, then you failed already. You did not have whatever it takes(luck, skill, qualifications, etc) to get into said beta testing. 

    Such a flawed view. A great player doesn't need the extra time to learn the game, they will adapt and overcome and produce a strategy to put them where they want to be.
    Which is why I feel it's complete horseshit that any player at all can get months of game time before release to refine a stratagem for success. An unfair advantage against all other players seeing the game for the first time when it is released.

    As to my failing to get into beta tests that would be a correct yardstick for measuring my ability to get into a beta test, but has fuckall to do with the issue of this post. 

    Are there even games that DON'T offer paid early access? I think that paid beta access is, essentially, par for the course now. So I'm not sure what the complaint is. Are you complaining about one game in particular? I can see where there might be a select few games that might still conduct closed betas, but for the most part you can buy access to the majority of betas now, even "alpha". So if you're worried about them gaining advantage, then just buy in earlier than them. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • JakkssJakkss Member UncommonPosts: 34
    I like it's original purpose, to inspect quality assurance and weed out all the errors of a game. In the past decade it's become a cash grab for the MMO industry to add in early play time, bonus items, EXP boosts or a fancy title and costume. It doesn't make any sense to me, really. When I was a beta tester long ago for more than just MMOs, what made it fun was the glitches, voids, bugs, and errors. Exploring around this new vast world because this was an experience to me before my character got wiped before the game actually launched.

    What I feel the OP is saying is that it's a money grab.
    "But this is how it is and you just have to deal with it." No, I won't. This isn't what our video game market should become.
  • Unrivaled1Unrivaled1 Member UncommonPosts: 34
    edited January 11
    CrazKanuk said:
    Gymrat313 said:
    Not entirely sure what the OP is really complaining about.

    The only thing that makes sense is that the OP is protesting against paid Early Access. 

    It can't be beta testing itself, because that has been a feature of MMO development since the dawn of the industry. Yet the OP has only experienced a problem in "the past few years".

    TL:DR: Everything should be free, except the stuff I don't care about, which they can sell in the Cash Shop ! :lol:
    Paid Early Access would not grant the player with carnal knowledge that gives them a leg up in all aspects of game play without previously having been a beta tester as well.

    I don't expect everyone to have the same issue with the concept as I do myself, but for me personally I see it in game after game that beta testers on release day already have a comprehensive plan in place to dominate all aspects of the game that they have previously researched throughout the beta test.

    And in that scenario I have to ask why bother playing when a select few have already "won"?

    @berenim:  I play online to be competitive. That is what I derive satisfaction in gaming from. Others do so from cooperative play so likely will have less issue with the results of beta testing.
    If you play to be competitive and you believe being involved in beta testing to be crucial to being the best in said game and you didn't get in, then you failed already. You did not have whatever it takes(luck, skill, qualifications, etc) to get into said beta testing. 

    Such a flawed view. A great player doesn't need the extra time to learn the game, they will adapt and overcome and produce a strategy to put them where they want to be.
    Which is why I feel it's complete horseshit that any player at all can get months of game time before release to refine a stratagem for success. An unfair advantage against all other players seeing the game for the first time when it is released.

    As to my failing to get into beta tests that would be a correct yardstick for measuring my ability to get into a beta test, but has fuckall to do with the issue of this post. 

    Are there even games that DON'T offer paid early access? I think that paid beta access is, essentially, par for the course now. So I'm not sure what the complaint is. Are you complaining about one game in particular? I can see where there might be a select few games that might still conduct closed betas, but for the most part you can buy access to the majority of betas now, even "alpha". So if you're worried about them gaining advantage, then just buy in earlier than them. 
    You seem to be describing the Steam model. The MMO community still has a long-term closed beta, followed usually by one or two open betas and then finally early access.

    My beef is with the long-term closed beta. Take Black Desert Online for instance. There were youtube videos from guys that spent nine months in the closed beta. Upon release they all rocketed ahead of the pack to secure coveted positions in the game, made massive amounts of money by comparison and to this day are unmatched by any player that saw the game for the first time at release.

    I want to reiterate here that this is all just something that ruins the game(s) for me. This is what is killing online gaming in MY opinion. If this isn't the case for you then by all means stop following this thread and enjoy online gaming for as long as it lasts for you. In fact, stay out of the forums altogether. No good can come from reading the posts of the dissatisfied.
    Post edited by Unrivaled1 on
  • CrusadecrusherCrusadecrusher Member UncommonPosts: 283
    There are no more beta tests they are called early access for a fee lol. Where has the op been for the last eight years. 

    The last true beta I was in was Vanguard. 
    They aren't really early access because your progress doesn't transfer to launch from an open beta.  Today the betas are more of demo or publicity event. 
  • Arkade99Arkade99 Parsippany, NJMember UncommonPosts: 317
    edited January 11
    Thoughts?
    My thoughts are that you are doing poorly in whichever game you are currently playing and fishing for any reason for it that won't threaten your ego.

    The idea that beta players gain some insurmountable advantage over non-beta players is ridiculous. By that rationale, anyone who joins the game a year after go live might as well not play either because the people who joined on day 1 will have an insurmountable advantage. Actually, they will have even more of an advantage because they'll not only have more knowledge of the game, they will have grown in power and wealth as well. Getting rid of beta won't change that.

    There are a finite number of things you can learn about a game. Mechanics change and the things they learned may no longer be applicable. Just because people have beta experience doesn't mean they are automatically good players. Some people are going to suck no matter how much time they spend playing the game.

    I've been testing Crowfall for over a year and yes, I have an advantage over people who have just started testing, but good players will get up to speed quickly. If you aren't getting up to speed quickly, you might have to entertain the notion that you aren't a good player.

    BTW, I find it ironic that your user name is Unrivaled, yet you are complaining about how you can't compete with beta players.
    Post edited by Arkade99 on
  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,190
    Couple of things:

    1. Beta's are not the same as they were ten years ago.  They used to be a way to invite a group of people to play and find bugs to squash.  They are now used as an excuse for releasing buggy games.

    2. Beta's used to be a few months to identify bugs and stress test the hardware.  Now they run for years because it gives developers an excuse for having buggy code. 

    3. Early Access is just another way developers get around releasing products way before they are ready. 

    4. I no longer play beta's or previews because it can ruin a game for you.  I was in Firefall very early, back when playing medic was just like TF2 where you held a beam on a person to heal them.  People were thumping everywhere and there were always groups open to jump in and have instant fun.  Then the whole thing changed, then the whole thing changed again and again until finally it was not even close to the game that you had so much fun with.


    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • Unrivaled1Unrivaled1 Member UncommonPosts: 34
    Right.. Because the name I chose for myself in forums has thing one to do with my post..

    I made no mention of those who start a game one year later. I made it crystal clear more than once the issue I have is with those that start at release versus those that beta tested for months prior to that.

    While I agree that there are a finite number of things to learn about a game, a player given enough time can certainly learn the absolute optimum method to leveling, crafting, exploring, etc. So much so that starting on day one of release there is no hope of competing with them on any level.
  • beebop500beebop500 IndianaMember UncommonPosts: 131
    It's not so much the betas or their testing that hurts, imho.  Heck, with the available technology today, most betas are essentially at release quality, or very close to it.  I don't think players expect betas to be bug-ridden testing phases any more, again since developers have the tech available to squash those things in alpha.  Betas now are almost seen as early release.

    What's hurting is people paying money to play unfinished, not-anywhere-near-alpha "crowdfund" and "kickstarter" crap that is only offered up so that people will pay the aforementioned money.  This has given many devs license (in their eyes) to release buggy crap, as the MMO community continues to swallow up this crap, pay for it, and then rave about how "great" or "groundbreaking" it is.
    "We are all as God made us, and many of us much worse." - Don Quixote
  • SpottyGekkoSpottyGekko JohannesburgMember EpicPosts: 6,440
    ...

    I made no mention of those who start a game one year later. I made it crystal clear more than once the issue I have is with those that start at release versus those that beta tested for months prior to that.

    While I agree that there are a finite number of things to learn about a game, a player given enough time can certainly learn the absolute optimum method to leveling, crafting, exploring, etc. So much so that starting on day one of release there is no hope of competing with them on any level.
    So, what you're really saying is that there's no point in playing any MMO unless you start in closed beta ?

    That would imply that starting at any point after launch day is beyond hopeless, don't even consider it !
  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,663
    CrazKanuk said:
    Gymrat313 said:
    Not entirely sure what the OP is really complaining about.

    The only thing that makes sense is that the OP is protesting against paid Early Access. 

    It can't be beta testing itself, because that has been a feature of MMO development since the dawn of the industry. Yet the OP has only experienced a problem in "the past few years".

    TL:DR: Everything should be free, except the stuff I don't care about, which they can sell in the Cash Shop ! :lol:
    Paid Early Access would not grant the player with carnal knowledge that gives them a leg up in all aspects of game play without previously having been a beta tester as well.

    I don't expect everyone to have the same issue with the concept as I do myself, but for me personally I see it in game after game that beta testers on release day already have a comprehensive plan in place to dominate all aspects of the game that they have previously researched throughout the beta test.

    And in that scenario I have to ask why bother playing when a select few have already "won"?

    @berenim:  I play online to be competitive. That is what I derive satisfaction in gaming from. Others do so from cooperative play so likely will have less issue with the results of beta testing.
    If you play to be competitive and you believe being involved in beta testing to be crucial to being the best in said game and you didn't get in, then you failed already. You did not have whatever it takes(luck, skill, qualifications, etc) to get into said beta testing. 

    Such a flawed view. A great player doesn't need the extra time to learn the game, they will adapt and overcome and produce a strategy to put them where they want to be.
    Which is why I feel it's complete horseshit that any player at all can get months of game time before release to refine a stratagem for success. An unfair advantage against all other players seeing the game for the first time when it is released.

    As to my failing to get into beta tests that would be a correct yardstick for measuring my ability to get into a beta test, but has fuckall to do with the issue of this post. 

    Are there even games that DON'T offer paid early access? I think that paid beta access is, essentially, par for the course now. So I'm not sure what the complaint is. Are you complaining about one game in particular? I can see where there might be a select few games that might still conduct closed betas, but for the most part you can buy access to the majority of betas now, even "alpha". So if you're worried about them gaining advantage, then just buy in earlier than them. 
    You seem to be describing the Steam model. The MMO community still has a long-term closed beta, followed usually by one or two open betas and then finally early access.

    My beef is with the long-term closed beta. Take Black Desert Online for instance. There were youtube videos from guys that spent nine months in the closed beta. Upon release they all rocketed ahead of the pack to secure coveted positions in the game, made massive amounts of money by comparison and to this day are unmatched by any player that saw the game for the first time at release.

    I want to reiterate here that this is all just something that ruins the game(s) for me. This is what is killing online gaming in MY opinion. If this isn't the case for you then by all means stop following this thread and enjoy online gaming for as long as it lasts for you. In fact, stay out of the forums altogether. No good can come from reading the posts of the dissatisfied.

    Yeah, and you could buy Closed Beta access to BDO. They offered founders packs on their website. 

    Also, as far as popularity and money goes, you've got this bias in believing that because these select few YouTubers had 9 months of access, they were somehow able to rocket ahead. There is, probably with few exceptions, always a server wipe, especially going from closed to open beta. So whatever perceived advantage they may have gained in the game is strictly in their knowledge of the game and the alliances they've made, all of which you could have done yourself. You just have to buy into the game. 

    Secondly, this knowledge provides diminishing returns. So the fact that they had CBT access plays, effectively, zero role in their ability to maintain positions of power. It's much more likely that they are leveraging social channels in order to ensure that their position of power is maintained. 

    Again, there are few, if any, games which don't allow you to buy some level of access to early stage testing. For those which still require the traditional application process, you can generally buy access via grey market channels. So my question is are you simply making up excuses for your inability to gain more power in the game? Maybe you should try doing the same as them and start up a YouTube channel, build viewers, and get them to help you in the game. I'm sure that's a much more likely scenario of what's happening. 

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
    Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
    Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
    Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
    Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
    Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
    ----------------

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 16,262
    OP - so your complaint is that betas give an advantage to players who are chosen to participate over those who dont?

    Why not just accept the fact that "fairness" is a false pretense and just enjoy the game regardless?


  • CrusadecrusherCrusadecrusher Member UncommonPosts: 283
    DMKano said:
    OP - so your complaint is that betas give an advantage to players who are chosen to participate over those who dont?

    Why not just accept the fact that "fairness" is a false pretense and just enjoy the game regardless?


    Maybe he thinks those that don't get invited should still get some type of participation trophy for signing up...
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 25,826
    edited January 11
    Long, long ago when betas were a more exclusive affair I felt much like the OP as I never got an invite.

    Seemed the beta players knew everything at launch and especially in games with competitive PVP and resource control this seemed an unfair advantage.

    But as time passed betas became more available, even I got invited (or paid for early access) yet I quickly discovered it changed nothing.

    There are just some players who put much more effort into their gaming than I am willing.

    They study every nuance, look for every advantage, practice and refine their stategies and techniques and often team up with others to gain a competitive edge I will never match.

    I honestly play mostly for "funsies." I don't learn every mechanic of my class, much less all of the ones I don't play.

    I don't learn the best economic strategies, over 7 years of playing EVE and I still pay cash rather then PLEX them as others do.

    I've come to accept I am a very average, casual gamer and I don't begrudge conceding the advantage to those who are better through knowledge, early access or more often, just willing to put in more effort.

    Also, if I really wanted to eliminate other players early access advantage its easily done in almost every new game out there, you just pay for it.

    Even now I have had early access to Albion Online and CU yet I never log in.  I find it ruins my playing experience to join a game too early.

    For the most part the MMOs I've enjoyed the longest I joined at least a year or more after launch.  

    One advantage is everyone has figured most everything out and information is readily available online to help me get up to speed.

    Post edited by Kyleran on

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - Screw off-grid PVE boosting changes

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon


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