Will Linage Eternal have Game Guard...

Will NCsoft seriously ruin Lineage Eternal, like "Blade & Soul" by throwing in "Game Guard" and installing it without disclosing this to the user that it has "Game Guard" before a user buys it like they do with "Blade & Soul?"

Its not like it stopped cheaters in any of their games so far only created a huge mess for players who wanted to legally play L2, and B&S.

Comments

  • HawkadiumHawkadium Abbotsford, BCMember UncommonPosts: 3
    What are you talking about?  GameGuard ran fine on Lineage 1.  Alright, it didn't stop cheaters, but the normal user didn't have any problems.  What was your issue?
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthMember EpicPosts: 4,268
    edited April 15


    Hawkadium said:


    What are you talking about?  GameGuard ran fine on Lineage 1.  Alright, it didn't stop cheaters, but the normal user didn't have any problems.  What was your issue?




    This user complains about ALL forms of anti-cheat software. Just look through his history. Suspicious to say the least.


    Renoaku said:


    Will NCsoft seriously ruin Lineage Eternal, like "Blade & Soul" by throwing in "Game Guard" and installing it without disclosing this to the user that it has "Game Guard" before a user buys it like they do with "Blade & Soul?"

    Its not like it stopped cheaters in any of their games so far only created a huge mess for players who wanted to legally play L2, and B&S.




    Also, as much as I might dislike NCSoft - they did NOT trick anyone into "buying" B&S and then sneak in software like that. It's a F2P title to begin with, and I'm pretty sure you can actually find mention of the program being included with the game on their website.
    Post edited by Azaron_Nightblade on

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    Feel free to send me a message if you want a guest pass to try Black Desert Online as well!

  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 16,954
    edited April 15


    Hawkadium said:


    What are you talking about?  GameGuard ran fine on Lineage 1.  Alright, it didn't stop cheaters, but the normal user didn't have any problems.  What was your issue?





    GameGuard (as well as other client based anti-cheat memory resident programs) are 100% useless against game exploits.

    They are easily bypassed by 3rd party exploit tools, so all they do in reality is take up memory on honest players PCs.

    Its useless junk, they end up blocking legitimate non-cheat software more than anything else. 

    So its a detriment to your PC more than any help.
    Post edited by DMKano on
  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthMember EpicPosts: 4,268
    edited April 15



    DMKano said:








    Hawkadium said:





    What are you talking about?  GameGuard ran fine on Lineage 1.  Alright, it didn't stop cheaters, but the normal user didn't have any problems.  What was your issue?











    GameGuard (as well as other client based anti-cheat memory resident programs) are 100% useless against game exploits.

    They are easily bypassed by 3rd party exploit tools, so all they do in reality is take up memory on honest players PCs.

    Its useless junk, they end up blocking legitimate non-cheat software more than anything else. 

    So its a detriment to your PC more than any help.






    Just because they don't catch everything doesn't make them useless.
    This is like saying "You shouldn't bother locking your doors. Some people CAN still pick the locks on them after all." Or because they can still sneak in through a window. :pleased:

    Post edited by Azaron_Nightblade on

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

    Feel free to send me a message if you want a guest pass to try Black Desert Online as well!

  • RenoakuRenoaku Member RarePosts: 2,359
    edited April 15








    Hawkadium said:




    What are you talking about?  GameGuard ran fine on Lineage 1.  Alright, it didn't stop cheaters, but the normal user didn't have any problems.  What was your issue?








    This user complains about ALL forms of anti-cheat software. Just look through his history. Suspicious to say the least.




    Renoaku said:




    Will NCsoft seriously ruin Lineage Eternal, like "Blade & Soul" by throwing in "Game Guard" and installing it without disclosing this to the user that it has "Game Guard" before a user buys it like they do with "Blade & Soul?"

    Its not like it stopped cheaters in any of their games so far only created a huge mess for players who wanted to legally play L2, and B&S.








    Also, as much as I might dislike NCSoft - they did NOT trick anyone into "buying" B&S and then sneak in software like that. It's a F2P title to begin with, and I'm pretty sure you can actually find mention of the program being included with the game on their website.




    Not every Anti-Cheat just those that install themselves without asking consent first or permission, or making consumers aware, and Root-Kits / Malware type that download themselves into places they shouldn't be...

    If they used a reputable Anti-Cheat such as Battleye, Fairfight, Punk Buster, or Easy Anti Cheat, I am fine with it...

    Game Guard, and XingCode stops the basic hacks, but otherwise is very useless other than for screwing with a persons computer system And providing no uninstaller making it even more malicious...

    Yes I complain because of the damage these Anti-Cheats have done my Android Device, and even screwed with my PC before.

    Also NCsoft didn't disclose to people who bought a founders pack for Early Access that it was going to use "Game Guard, just like Black Desert Online did not inform people like me who pre-ordered it was going to use XingCode, this was not in the pre-order page as a requirement for 3rd party and both games install this without consent, and very Malicious software.

    If you wan't to use it then that is fine and its up to you but when an Anti-Cheat has the ability to override basic functions of my PC because it thinks I am using a hack then that is unacceptable, detection of hacks and sending info to them if it thinks there is one within reason is just fine, but blocking installation of drivers or software and auto updates while a game is running for example is not okay.
    Post edited by Renoaku on
  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 16,954
    edited April 15









    DMKano said:












    Hawkadium said:







    What are you talking about?  GameGuard ran fine on Lineage 1.  Alright, it didn't stop cheaters, but the normal user didn't have any problems.  What was your issue?















    GameGuard (as well as other client based anti-cheat memory resident programs) are 100% useless against game exploits.

    They are easily bypassed by 3rd party exploit tools, so all they do in reality is take up memory on honest players PCs.

    Its useless junk, they end up blocking legitimate non-cheat software more than anything else. 

    So its a detriment to your PC more than any help.










    Just because they don't catch everything doesn't make them useless.
    This is like saying "You shouldn't bother locking your doors. Some people CAN still pick the locks on them after all." Or because they can still sneak in through a window. :pleased:






    What a horrible analogy - because locked doors in this case would also prevent home owners of their own house with valid keys from coming in.

    That's what GameGuard, XignCode3 etc.. do - they prevent 100% legitimate software from running on your PC, like VMWare player or Hardware monitoring software etc...

    It's absolute useless trash

    Meanwhile - actual 3rd party exploit programs - they don't stop those.

    So what was your point again?

    Post edited by DMKano on
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member RarePosts: 2,359

    DMKano said:













    DMKano said:














    Hawkadium said:








    What are you talking about?  GameGuard ran fine on Lineage 1.  Alright, it didn't stop cheaters, but the normal user didn't have any problems.  What was your issue?

















    GameGuard (as well as other client based anti-cheat memory resident programs) are 100% useless against game exploits.

    They are easily bypassed by 3rd party exploit tools, so all they do in reality is take up memory on honest players PCs.

    Its useless junk, they end up blocking legitimate non-cheat software more than anything else. 

    So its a detriment to your PC more than any help.












    Just because they don't catch everything doesn't make them useless.
    This is like saying "You shouldn't bother locking your doors. Some people CAN still pick the locks on them after all." Or because they can still sneak in through a window. :pleased:








    What a horrible analogy - because locked doors in this case would also prevent home owners of their own house with valid keys from coming in.

    That's what GameGuard, XignCode3 etc.. do - they prevent 100% legitimate software from running on your PC, like VMWare player or Hardware monitoring software etc...

    It's absolute useless trash

    Meanwhile - actual 3rd party exploit programs - they don't stop those.

    So what was your point again?



    Yeah it blocked me from playing "Sun OF The Ultimate Nation" back in the day simply because I had a "VPN" installed on my system but not actively turned on this was back in the day when I let "Game Guard" and "XingCode" completely take over my system without caring much and knowing what was really going on...

    At least with Battleye, they provide info, and full uninstall instructions even when it was downloaded without consent the first time on my PC due to a bug, after complaining about it they actually fixed it and it asks consent now on the game that installed it the first time without asking...

    Its great to have a few Anti-Cheat companies that are legitimate and willing to respect a players privacy if they choose to remove them entirely although you can't play the game without it installed because it won't let you and you have to reinstall it if you choose to.
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,665

    DMKano said:













    DMKano said:














    Hawkadium said:








    What are you talking about?  GameGuard ran fine on Lineage 1.  Alright, it didn't stop cheaters, but the normal user didn't have any problems.  What was your issue?

















    GameGuard (as well as other client based anti-cheat memory resident programs) are 100% useless against game exploits.

    They are easily bypassed by 3rd party exploit tools, so all they do in reality is take up memory on honest players PCs.

    Its useless junk, they end up blocking legitimate non-cheat software more than anything else. 

    So its a detriment to your PC more than any help.












    Just because they don't catch everything doesn't make them useless.
    This is like saying "You shouldn't bother locking your doors. Some people CAN still pick the locks on them after all." Or because they can still sneak in through a window. :pleased:








    What a horrible analogy - because locked doors in this case would also prevent home owners of their own house with valid keys from coming in.

    That's what GameGuard, XignCode3 etc.. do - they prevent 100% legitimate software from running on your PC, like VMWare player or Hardware monitoring software etc...

    It's absolute useless trash

    Meanwhile - actual 3rd party exploit programs - they don't stop those.

    So what was your point again?



    So I did some quick research, it appears 100% legitimate software like VMWare can be used to perform undesireable activities such as running multiple accounts from a single machine which can then be used for botting and such.

    Detecting and disabling virtual machines seems to be standard practice by games for many years and there's numerous discussions on hacking web sites on ways to circumvent the block on particular games so their cheats will work.

    Found one interesting page on a application called muktitheftauto that lets a user set up multiplayer servers for GTA 3, 4 and 5 with all sorts of instructions on how to set up or disable various anti cheat tools including vmware detection.

    Turns out these anticheat programs are fairly successful, often times the workarounds were either onerous, inconsistent or had no solution at all.

    I figure anything that makes hackers spend a lot of time trying to defeat them can't be all bad, keeps them out of my game for a while.

    As in the door lock analogy above, some people are able to defeat these tools, but clearly not everyone nor everytime.

    Besides I question the need to run virtual machines on a gaming computer.



    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon




  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 14,737
    edited April 15


    Hawkadium said:


    What are you talking about?  GameGuard ran fine on Lineage 1.  Alright, it didn't stop cheaters, but the normal user didn't have any problems.  What was your issue?




    It inhibits the gold sellers and bots he likes. It's harder to run those bots with anti cheatware (you always have to update) and it drives the costs of gold purchases up. It's more expensive for the gamers that like to buy gold and cheat to be competitive in that situation.
    Post edited by Torval on
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  • ananitananit Member UncommonPosts: 133
    i don't like gameguard and xigncode because they are mutually exclusive (on top of being useless pieces of software. anyone who played lineage 2 can vouch for that, this game was run by bots despite gameguard) meaning i cannot run black desert in the background and play any other game using gameguard.
    if you play bdo you know that the game 'has' to run 24/7 and while i'm processing/cooking/afk fishing with the game in the taskbar i like to play other games.
    for instance, i can't launch the mxm beta because of gameguard vs xign.
    you could argue that it's a minor annoyance but it's an annoyance nonetheless and it could be easily avoided if these asian developpers actually started living in the 21st century and started using a decent anti-cheat software instead of these pile of junk.
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member RarePosts: 2,359

    ananit said:

    i don't like gameguard and xigncode because they are mutually exclusive (on top of being useless pieces of software. anyone who played lineage 2 can vouch for that, this game was run by bots despite gameguard) meaning i cannot run black desert in the background and play any other game using gameguard.
    if you play bdo you know that the game 'has' to run 24/7 and while i'm processing/cooking/afk fishing with the game in the taskbar i like to play other games.
    for instance, i can't launch the mxm beta because of gameguard vs xign.
    you could argue that it's a minor annoyance but it's an annoyance nonetheless and it could be easily avoided if these asian developpers actually started living in the 21st century and started using a decent anti-cheat software instead of these pile of junk.


    Yep I remember how great Game Guard was at stopping bots in Lineage 2 it was so good I used to see hundreds of Dwarf accounts running into the NPC and attacking them to de-level lol...


    Kyleran said:



    DMKano said:

















    DMKano said:
















    Hawkadium said:









    What are you talking about?  GameGuard ran fine on Lineage 1.  Alright, it didn't stop cheaters, but the normal user didn't have any problems.  What was your issue?



















    GameGuard (as well as other client based anti-cheat memory resident programs) are 100% useless against game exploits.

    They are easily bypassed by 3rd party exploit tools, so all they do in reality is take up memory on honest players PCs.

    Its useless junk, they end up blocking legitimate non-cheat software more than anything else. 

    So its a detriment to your PC more than any help.














    Just because they don't catch everything doesn't make them useless.
    This is like saying "You shouldn't bother locking your doors. Some people CAN still pick the locks on them after all." Or because they can still sneak in through a window. :pleased:










    What a horrible analogy - because locked doors in this case would also prevent home owners of their own house with valid keys from coming in.

    That's what GameGuard, XignCode3 etc.. do - they prevent 100% legitimate software from running on your PC, like VMWare player or Hardware monitoring software etc...

    It's absolute useless trash

    Meanwhile - actual 3rd party exploit programs - they don't stop those.

    So what was your point again?





    So I did some quick research, it appears 100% legitimate software like VMWare can be used to perform undesireable activities such as running multiple accounts from a single machine which can then be used for botting and such.

    Detecting and disabling virtual machines seems to be standard practice by games for many years and there's numerous discussions on hacking web sites on ways to circumvent the block on particular games so their cheats will work.

    Found one interesting page on a application called muktitheftauto that lets a user set up multiplayer servers for GTA 3, 4 and 5 with all sorts of instructions on how to set up or disable various anti cheat tools including vmware detection.

    Turns out these anticheat programs are fairly successful, often times the workarounds were either onerous, inconsistent or had no solution at all.

    I figure anything that makes hackers spend a lot of time trying to defeat them can't be all bad, keeps them out of my game for a while.

    As in the door lock analogy above, some people are able to defeat these tools, but clearly not everyone nor everytime.

    Besides I question the need to run virtual machines on a gaming computer.





    VMware can be used to cheat games, So can my Logitech Keyboard that isn't disabled because XingCode & Gameguard don't disable it because I can program this keyboard to afk and bot without getting banned while watching netflix and have the ability to respond to a GM, so can other software I have on my system that isn't detected by either anti-cheat.

    The problem is that some of us choose to have VM ware, or VPN services on our system should not be disabled, as there are legitimate purposes, if a player is Hacking or cheating then by all means send over the proof to the game company and let them decide, but some people like me sometimes choose to use Sandboxie when checking out things that could harm our PC on the internet or other uses such as running a Virtual OS while going AFK Fishing in lets say BDO for example, doesn't mean we are cheating.

    What needs to happen, is a legitimate Anti-Cheat for these games that simply protect the game itself doesn't cause problems with any other tasks unrelated to the game.

    All I mean is Rootkits like XingCode, or Game Guard are not welcome on my system, Game companies should respect this and place it on their pre-order pages something such as...Note, this game uses Game Guard / XingCode, which will be automatically installed when launching our game... (IF you do not agree) don't use our product.

    But thing is these companies like Daum Games, which I am sure violates European privacy laws didn't tell anyone before buying their game so I tried their game anyways and watching it download this crap into my windows directories.
  • KyleranKyleran Paradise City, FLMember LegendaryPosts: 26,665
    edited April 15


    Renoaku said:





    ananit said:



    i don't like gameguard and xigncode because they are mutually exclusive (on top of being useless pieces of software. anyone who played lineage 2 can vouch for that, this game was run by bots despite gameguard) meaning i cannot run black desert in the background and play any other game using gameguard.
    if you play bdo you know that the game 'has' to run 24/7 and while i'm processing/cooking/afk fishing with the game in the taskbar i like to play other games.
    for instance, i can't launch the mxm beta because of gameguard vs xign.
    you could argue that it's a minor annoyance but it's an annoyance nonetheless and it could be easily avoided if these asian developpers actually started living in the 21st century and started using a decent anti-cheat software instead of these pile of junk.






    Yep I remember how great Game Guard was at stopping bots in Lineage 2 it was so good I used to see hundreds of Dwarf accounts running into the NPC and attacking them to de-level lol...




    Kyleran said:







    DMKano said:

























    DMKano said:




















    Hawkadium said:











    What are you talking about?  GameGuard ran fine on Lineage 1.  Alright, it didn't stop cheaters, but the normal user didn't have any problems.  What was your issue?























    GameGuard (as well as other client based anti-cheat memory resident programs) are 100% useless against game exploits.

    They are easily bypassed by 3rd party exploit tools, so all they do in reality is take up memory on honest players PCs.

    Its useless junk, they end up blocking legitimate non-cheat software more than anything else. 

    So its a detriment to your PC more than any help.


















    Just because they don't catch everything doesn't make them useless.
    This is like saying "You shouldn't bother locking your doors. Some people CAN still pick the locks on them after all." Or because they can still sneak in through a window. :pleased:














    What a horrible analogy - because locked doors in this case would also prevent home owners of their own house with valid keys from coming in.

    That's what GameGuard, XignCode3 etc.. do - they prevent 100% legitimate software from running on your PC, like VMWare player or Hardware monitoring software etc...

    It's absolute useless trash

    Meanwhile - actual 3rd party exploit programs - they don't stop those.

    So what was your point again?









    So I did some quick research, it appears 100% legitimate software like VMWare can be used to perform undesireable activities such as running multiple accounts from a single machine which can then be used for botting and such.

    Detecting and disabling virtual machines seems to be standard practice by games for many years and there's numerous discussions on hacking web sites on ways to circumvent the block on particular games so their cheats will work.

    Found one interesting page on a application called muktitheftauto that lets a user set up multiplayer servers for GTA 3, 4 and 5 with all sorts of instructions on how to set up or disable various anti cheat tools including vmware detection.

    Turns out these anticheat programs are fairly successful, often times the workarounds were either onerous, inconsistent or had no solution at all.

    I figure anything that makes hackers spend a lot of time trying to defeat them can't be all bad, keeps them out of my game for a while.

    As in the door lock analogy above, some people are able to defeat these tools, but clearly not everyone nor everytime.

    Besides I question the need to run virtual machines on a gaming computer.









    VMware can be used to cheat games, So can my Logitech Keyboard that isn't disabled because XingCode & Gameguard don't disable it because I can program this keyboard to afk and bot without getting banned while watching netflix and have the ability to respond to a GM, so can other software I have on my system that isn't detected by either anti-cheat.

    The problem is that some of us choose to have VM ware, or VPN services on our system should not be disabled, as there are legitimate purposes, if a player is Hacking or cheating then by all means send over the proof to the game company and let them decide, but some people like me sometimes choose to use Sandboxie when checking out things that could harm our PC on the internet or other uses such as running a Virtual OS while going AFK Fishing in lets say BDO for example, doesn't mean we are cheating.

    What needs to happen, is a legitimate Anti-Cheat for these games that simply protect the game itself doesn't cause problems with any other tasks unrelated to the game.

    All I mean is Rootkits like XingCode, or Game Guard are not welcome on my system, Game companies should respect this and place it on their pre-order pages something such as...Note, this game uses Game Guard / XingCode, which will be automatically installed when launching our game... (IF you do not agree) don't use our product.

    But thing is these companies like Daum Games, which I am sure violates European privacy laws didn't tell anyone before buying their game so I tried their game anyways and watching it download this crap into my windows directories.




    You are probably cheating, and this software is messing with you. I can just tell by your protests.


    Post edited by Kyleran on

    "I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant

    On hiatus from EVE Online since Dec 2016 - CCP continues to wander aimlessly

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.

    Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon




  • DMKanoDMKano Gamercentral, AKMember LegendaryPosts: 16,954
    edited April 15


    Kyleran said:





    DMKano said:





















    DMKano said:


















    Hawkadium said:










    What are you talking about?  GameGuard ran fine on Lineage 1.  Alright, it didn't stop cheaters, but the normal user didn't have any problems.  What was your issue?





















    GameGuard (as well as other client based anti-cheat memory resident programs) are 100% useless against game exploits.

    They are easily bypassed by 3rd party exploit tools, so all they do in reality is take up memory on honest players PCs.

    Its useless junk, they end up blocking legitimate non-cheat software more than anything else. 

    So its a detriment to your PC more than any help.
















    Just because they don't catch everything doesn't make them useless.
    This is like saying "You shouldn't bother locking your doors. Some people CAN still pick the locks on them after all." Or because they can still sneak in through a window. :pleased:












    What a horrible analogy - because locked doors in this case would also prevent home owners of their own house with valid keys from coming in.

    That's what GameGuard, XignCode3 etc.. do - they prevent 100% legitimate software from running on your PC, like VMWare player or Hardware monitoring software etc...

    It's absolute useless trash

    Meanwhile - actual 3rd party exploit programs - they don't stop those.

    So what was your point again?







    So I did some quick research, it appears 100% legitimate software like VMWare can be used to perform undesireable activities such as running multiple accounts from a single machine which can then be used for botting and such.

    Detecting and disabling virtual machines seems to be standard practice by games for many years and there's numerous discussions on hacking web sites on ways to circumvent the block on particular games so their cheats will work.

    Found one interesting page on a application called muktitheftauto that lets a user set up multiplayer servers for GTA 3, 4 and 5 with all sorts of instructions on how to set up or disable various anti cheat tools including vmware detection.

    Turns out these anticheat programs are fairly successful, often times the workarounds were either onerous, inconsistent or had no solution at all.

    I figure anything that makes hackers spend a lot of time trying to defeat them can't be all bad, keeps them out of my game for a while.

    As in the door lock analogy above, some people are able to defeat these tools, but clearly not everyone nor everytime.

    Besides I question the need to run virtual machines on a gaming computer.








    The real reason why it disables VMware is because of hypervisor sits below the service that Xingcode and Gameguard use.

    So they can't see what the hypervisor is doing - that's why they disable it.

    You can use VMs for anything you can use OS for


    As far as questioning the need to run VMs on a PC? hello -  you can run multiple OS - I run Ubuntu, Centos and Win10. I run VMs when browsing the web, my VM gets compromised or infected - zero loss, I just roll back the snapshot.

    There are a ton of applications that will only run as VM appliance - for example VIRL and GNS3 now is an appliance too.

    So if I want to use VIRL - I have to run in in a VM.
    Post edited by DMKano on
  • AoriAori Carbondale, ILMember EpicPosts: 3,849
    I mean gameguard and xign are both useless. BDO still has market bot/scripts going 24/7. Everything NCsoft is still bot/hack hell, B&S and Lineage 2 are prime examples of it doing jackall.

    I don't know a developer who actually likes gameguard, the ones I know have nothing positive to say about it but they have/had little choice in its implementation.
  • RenoakuRenoaku Member RarePosts: 2,359

    DMKano said:



    The real reason why it disables VMware is because of hypervisor sits below the service that Xingcode and Gameguard use.

    So they can't see what the hypervisor is doing - that's why they disable it.

    You can use VMs for anything you can use OS for


    As far as questioning the need to run VMs on a PC? hello -  you can run multiple OS - I run Ubuntu, Centos and Win10. I run VMs when browsing the web, my VM gets compromised or infected - zero loss, I just roll back the snapshot.

    There are a ton of applications that will only run as VM appliance - for example VIRL and GNS3 now is an appliance too.

    So if I want to use VIRL - I have to run in in a VM.


    Yep I have Windows 98 on my VM too lol...


    Aori said:

    I mean gameguard and xign are both useless. BDO still has market bot/scripts going 24/7. Everything NCsoft is still bot/hack hell, B&S and Lineage 2 are prime examples of it doing jackall.

    I don't know a developer who actually likes gameguard, the ones I know have nothing positive to say about it but they have/had little choice in its implementation.


    And yeah Game Guard doesn't do anything really to stop cheating there is always ways around it it does nothing but really cause the most harm to legit customers like myself who would buy and stick money into the game just like Denuvo I would rather illegally obtain a single player game that uses Denuvo and play it for free than have Denuvo DRM in it...

    Reputable DRM like "Steam DRM" "ORIGIN" and such is fine just not DRM by 3rd parties that provides no uninstaller.
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