Chronciles of Elyria - Not Pay to Win

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  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,755
    Remember the concept of an equal playing field that used to exist in games?
    Games? Sure. MMOs? No.

    MMOs have always favored basement dwelling virgins over people with lives. To the point of fights in many MMOs being straight up unwinnable unless you have grinded for thousands upon thousands of hours.

    If the power gap between Pay to Win and non-Pay to Win is smaller than the power gap between no-lifers and people with a useful function in society then I am totally ok dealing with that game.

    If the main thing people are upset about is people starting with most of the land in a game about territory control it makes me wonder if they've ever played a game with territory control.

    You can't control territory without a strong alliance to defend it, an strong alliances almost always fall to infighting and drama eventually. Generally sooner rather than later.

    Unless the defender's advantages in this game are off the chain I would guess that at least 75% of the keeps will have different owners by the end of the first year of this game.

    That's a concern for people planning to play two months and leave. It's not a concern for people planning to play this game a few years. So I don't think this game's primary audience cares all that much.
    Kyleran
  • Slapshot1188Slapshot1188 Boca Raton, FLMember EpicPosts: 7,185
    edited June 13
    Eldurian said:
    Remember the concept of an equal playing field that used to exist in games?
    Games? Sure. MMOs? No.

    MMOs have always favored basement dwelling virgins over people with lives. To the point of fights in many MMOs being straight up unwinnable unless you have grinded for thousands upon thousands of hours.

    If the power gap between Pay to Win and non-Pay to Win is smaller than the power gap between no-lifers and people with a useful function in society then I am totally ok dealing with that game.


    Of course where this arguments fails is because it considers that people either have time or have money.   That is obviously untrue.  These whales have both time AND money.  So guess what that does to the "power gap"?

    Eldurian
    said:
    Remember the concept of an equal playing field that used to exist in games?


    If the main thing people are upset about is people starting with most of the land in a game about territory control it makes me wonder if they've ever played a game with territory control.

    You can't control territory without a strong alliance to defend it, an strong alliances almost always fall to infighting and drama eventually. Generally sooner rather than later.

    Unless the defender's advantages in this game are off the chain I would guess that at least 75% of the keeps will have different owners by the end of the first year of this game.

    That's a concern for people planning to play two months and leave. It's not a concern for people planning to play this game a few years. So I don't think this game's primary audience cares all that much.
    I can assure you that I have quite a history of playing territory control games.  To suggest that it's not a huge advantage to start with control is just silly.  They aren't just buying land, but also siege weapons, defensive structures, technology, resources, skills...  Then to top it off, they can use RMT to maintain that advantage.   I also suggest you familiarize yourself with the complex process of actually deposing someone: https://chroniclesofelyria.com/forum/topic/15294/casus-belli-an-ab-guide

    It's the guy that understands the game best and put in tens of thousands of dollars that called it an "insurmountable advantage".  It's his quotes below:


     The "it can be taken from you" argument gets invalidated by the amount of advantage it gives being so valuable that it is now required for a community to rally around that advantage and protect it so that the community benefits from said insurmountable advantage. "it can be taken from you" arguments only work when / if the advantage you are being given is reasonably surmountable.

    and

    Again, rant over, but these are legitimate concerns that can no longer be answered with a simple "But they can be taken from you." My answer to that is, if things stay this way, good luck trying to take any of the advantages away from a group like mine. I can confidently say that these advantages in the hands of my group will equate to a completely insurmountable Kingdom in literally any and every aspect that we choose to go with. If that is a problem with me, it should be a problem with you too.


    I do believe that 75% of the keeps will have different owners after the first year though, but not for the reasons you post.   IMHO it's because all those people will have long since become disillusioned with the game as it was delivered.  They have been able to project their hopes and dreams on it.  When it launches and reality hits, there will be quite the exodus.


    Post edited by Slapshot1188 on
    IselinGdemami

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  • cheyanecheyane EarthMember EpicPosts: 4,785
    I am always curious what whales do for a living that they can have both money and time. I mean don't they have to work to make the money ...oh trust fund kid yes but how many of them play games over partying all night.
    image
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,755
    @Slapshot1188

    All I can say is I've never played a game with territorial control that the political map did not change dramatically every few months. New powers rise and old powers fall constantly. In any PvP guild there is always going to be some drama and the larger a guild gets the worse the drama gets. 

    I'm sure when the game comes out and has been out a few months, the political map will change, and I will claim it is confirmation of what I am saying now, and you will claim it is confirmation the game is crap and there as some huge exodus (AKA natural player turnover).


  • Brald_IronheartBrald_Ironheart Member UncommonPosts: 119
    Well, I suppose we'll see how P2W it is or not if and when it comes out.
    Roleplayinn.com - New forum for people who love role-playing of all kinds - tabletop/pencil & paper, live-action, and role-playing in mmorpgs.
  • Aragon100Aragon100 OsloMember UncommonPosts: 2,490
    Anyone claiming this game is not pay to win should examine their heads.

    Of course developers claim it isn't since it would make less players interested funding the game.
  • time007time007 Member UncommonPosts: 920
    when is this thing gonna go live? 2018?

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  • TheocritusTheocritus Gary, INMember RarePosts: 5,361
    Any game that is most likely to struggle to get players will probably add elements that will make people want to pay.....
  • WizardryWizardry Ontario, CanadaMember EpicPosts: 12,969
    "EP items will NOT be available after launch".Sp special perks to those giving money before the game is live.Yep pay to win.

    This is also worded carefully and deceptively.This does not mean there will not be EP points after release ,there most likely will continue to be EP points and new cash shop items after launch,just not the same ones there is now which is why they can word it so deceptively.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • NildenNilden Canada, NBMember RarePosts: 2,158
    This whole thing is so ass backwards. Remember when MMORPG companies would promise that a game wouldn't have a cash shop then a couple months after launch add one? Now the first thing they do is make the cash shop then say they will remove it at launch, yeah right I'll believe that when I see it.

    Stop being gullible.
    KyleranOctagon7711Gdemami

    "classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Chicago, ILMember EpicPosts: 5,703
    cheyane said:
    I am always curious what whales do for a living that they can have both money and time. I mean don't they have to work to make the money ...oh trust fund kid yes but how many of them play games over partying all night.
    One guy who spent 10K on a game said he worked a second job to pay for it.  
    KyleranDakeru

    "Change is the only constant."

  • Billybob1replyBillybob1reply Member CommonPosts: 2
    Wizardry said:
    "EP items will NOT be available after launch".Sp special perks to those giving money before the game is live.Yep pay to win.

    This is also worded carefully and deceptively.This does not mean there will not be EP points after release ,there most likely will continue to be EP points and new cash shop items after launch,just not the same ones there is now which is why they can word it so deceptively.
    You might want to read up on the game. Once expo is done left over ep becomes story points. Only thing available with sp is sparks and to respawn as a noble 
  • erebos007erebos007 ParisMember UncommonPosts: 1
    IMO currently this game i well beyond P2W ! You are paying to be "gangbanged". You will want to pay to have the mentioned advanteages, then you will lose them, then realize that without it the game is too grindy, pay again, then get f***** again, etc.
  • skelexxskelexx AgrinioMember CommonPosts: 4
    first things first let me say that when and if this game releases im gonna play it
    im gonna pay for the game and the subscription that is has in the form of sparks of life,souls
    and maybe i say maybe ill pay a bit extra just to get the early accesses

    this ^ is me my goal in the game is to become king why do i have to fight for the position
    and someone else that gave 10.000$ just takes it ?

    how can ANYONE see this as "fair" and not P2W  ??



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