How much money to make an MMORPG?

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Answers

  • anemoanemo Member UncommonPosts: 1,197

    I've got some post mortems for ya:

    http://cranktrain.com/blog/autopsy-of-an-indie-mmorpg-1/

    http://cranktrain.com/blog/autopsy-of-an-indie-mmorpg-2/

    http://www.over00.com/index.php/archives/1119

    http://www.over00.com/?p=1610

    https://web.archive.org/web/20070106063538/http://www.devmaster.net/articles/mmorpg-postmortem/part1.php

    https://web.archive.org/web/20070106063512/http://www.devmaster.net/articles/mmorpg-postmortem/part2.php

    https://web.archive.org/web/20070106063700/http://www.devmaster.net/articles/mmorpg-postmortem/part3.php

    https://web.archive.org/web/20070106063812/http://www.devmaster.net/articles/mmorpg-postmortem/part4.php

    https://web.archive.org/web/20070106063556/http://www.devmaster.net/articles/mmorpg-postmortem/part5.php

    More Tutorial-ly: https://www.youtube.com/user/RainingChain/videos?sort=dd&shelf_id=1&view=0

    https://hookrace.net/blog/ddnet-evolution-architecture-technology/

    ____

    The answer for those is just LOTS OF TIME, rather than large amounts of cash, and even then some of them were/are lots of fun.

    ____

    It's possible to make an MMO-a-like game with a small team. But even then the projects above weren't "firsts" for their large projects, they weren't in the process of learning to program, and they in general knew the difficulty ahead.

    Very small scale multiplayer is actually pretty easy(3rd programming project in visual basic using winsock controls a decade ago), not even using the winsock control correctly I was still able to get 4 people in a game (new programmer with only a hundred or so hours of programming time). Larger scale difficulty goes up exponentially, which is why you see more thousand player servers over EvE like servers. Also why you see more games going GW1 like over WoW like.

    Even then most small MMO-A-Likes don't really fail for actually failing (having a $100 to $500 a month server expense for a team capable of making an MMO-A-Like isn't really that large at all). It failed from the person/team not wanting to deal with it any more, they look at their game and realize that if they want to add 8 more hours of game play they'll have to dedicate a year to the game, their community and the level of support that they need to give just isn't worth their time any more(especially with minimal compensation). So they just stop.

    ____

    I know that I've read others at different times, just lost the links or similar.   So if anyone has one that I missed just reply or PM me so that I can make a bigger popcorn ball.


    Practice doesn't make perfect, practice makes permanent.

    "At one point technology meant making tech that could get to the moon, now it means making tech that could get you a taxi."

  • LienhartLienhart Member UncommonPosts: 657
    OP, the only reason why I would follow you is to watch the shit wreck that is incoming if you tried this and make money documenting how you messed up.

    Your first mistake is asking a forum, full of MMORPG players, how much it costs to make an MMORPG. Go to a public game dev site, hell you can even use stackoverflow. You won't get monetary answers, but you'll get insight as to the difficult of creating an MMORPG. I don't think you appreciate just how difficult it is to create one. 

    And @ the "lets get everyone together to make a game as a school project" comment...do you want everyone to fail? Because that's how you'd fail an entire year of students.
    I live to go faster...or die trying.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,778
    edited November 2016
    I think Star Citizen has put forth a rather brilliant example of how to get an MMO started. Don't start it as an MMO. An MMO takes a massive world full of unique zones and things to find as you explore, crafting, an economy, character customization (visual and abilities), combat, graphics, player interaction tool such as chat and a friends list, a wide array of items with unique skins, massive quantities of different NPCs with different skins and behaviors etc. and if you don't have all of this on day one your game is a failure and people hate you. So in order to launch an MMO you need ALL of these things done on day one and any of them you don't do that well will be held against you.

    Now let's cut and paste that list:

    A MOBA takes a massive world full of unique zones and things to find as you explore, crafting, an economy, character customization (visual and abilities), combat, graphics, player interaction tool such as chat and a friends list, a wide array of items with unique skins, massive quantities of different NPCs with different skins and behaviors etc.

    Sounds a lot simpler right? Start with a MOBA. Make the combat great. Then add in character customization. Start adding in more items and NPCs. Finally do crafting and when it all is working really well, launch into a massive world full of unique zones, a full economy, and things to explore. Take the time to make sure each component is done extremely well as you do them.

    That's how I would launch an MMO.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
  • chambordinchambordin montevideoMember UncommonPosts: 103
    there was an article by dave georgeson, the guy that got fired from soe when it became daybreak and so eqn stopped, pretty cool guy, he goes in depth, it was on this website even
    http://www.mmorpg.com/general-articles/dave-georgeson-on-creating-new-worlds-1000009437
  • LienhartLienhart Member UncommonPosts: 657
    Eldurian said:
    I think Star Citizen has put forth a rather brilliant example of how to get an MMO started. Don't start it as an MMO. An MMO takes a massive world full of unique zones and things to find as you explore, crafting, an economy, character customization (visual and abilities), combat, graphics, player interaction tool such as chat and a friends list, a wide array of items with unique skins, massive quantities of different NPCs with different skins and behaviors etc. and if you don't have all of this on day one your game is a failure and people hate you. So in order to launch an MMO you need ALL of these things done on day one and any of them you don't do that well will be held against you.

    Now let's cut and paste that list:

    A MOBA takes a massive world full of unique zones and things to find as you explore, crafting, an economy, character customization (visual and abilities), combat, graphics, player interaction tool such as chat and a friends list, a wide array of items with unique skins, massive quantities of different NPCs with different skins and behaviors etc.

    Sounds a lot simpler right? Start with a MOBA. Make the combat great. Then add in character customization. Start adding in more items and NPCs. Finally do crafting and when it all is working really well, launch into a massive world full of unique zones, a full economy, and things to explore. Take the time to make sure each component is done extremely well as you do them.

    That's how I would launch an MMO.
    Star Citizen is a great example of how NOT to start an MMO.

    http://www.dereksmart.org/2016/06/star-citizen-fidelity-of-failure/

    Extremely long article written by a game developer. I'm also a developer myself. These signs were extremely obvious to anyone that does software for a living. I can totally understand how anyone who is not a developer or been involved in the game dev process (QA, marketting, asset creation, whatever) would have fallen for the scam.
    I live to go faster...or die trying.
  • EldurianEldurian Member EpicPosts: 1,778
    edited November 2016
    Derek Smart has an ironic last name. He's a straight up moron who has never developed a successful game. In contrast Chris Roberts has multiple successful titles under his belt including my favorite game ever (Freelancer). Not even going to read the article given the source.

    Edit: Every time I check in on SC significant progress has been made. Arena Commander is far from vaporware. I'm completely content with how it's progressing.
    Post edited by Eldurian on
  • BestinnaBestinna Member UncommonPosts: 143
    edited November 2016
    Lienhart said:
    Your first mistake is asking a forum, full of MMORPG players, how much it costs to make an MMORPG.
    A lot of different kinds of people are MMORPG players. Some are professionals in some field or another and some aren't. Smart people are everywhere and you can learn from them. I'd ask a million different people in a million different places the same question if I could, to learn. You have to start somewhere and that's not a mistake. Besides, a lot of useful information has already come out of it, and there's no harm done having a thread of useful information here of all places. Just one more place on the internet to find something (Which I couldn't really on this subject. Mostly only, ''hurr durr, it costs $400m, 300 people, every commerical spot during the Superbowl, and if you think about it, you will fail, durr'' lol. Everything I could find just seemed like overwhelmingly biased nonsense. I've taken it into consideration, but I'm not taking it to heart.)

    EDIT: Couldn't get out of quote.
    Post edited by Bestinna on
  • DishwasherSafeDishwasherSafe In Your KitchenMember UncommonPosts: 39
    You need knowledge on how to manage a large software project. You need people that can program C++ and are familiar with networking. You need Artists that can create original Art and you need someone that knows how to manage your code and assets.

    If you have all of that you need to ask them how much they want to earn in the next 5 years and you need to ask yourself how much money you need to live for the next 5 years.


    You add this all up and then you multiply it by 3. That is how much money you need.
    Then you divide the amount of features you dreamed of by 2. That is what your game will actually look like.

    [Citation Needed]

    "Play Style Matters" 
    - Warren Spector ( System Shock, Deus Ex ) 
  • botrytisbotrytis In Flux, MIMember RarePosts: 2,902
    Eldurian said:
    Derek Smart has an ironic last name. He's a straight up moron who has never developed a successful game. In contrast Chris Roberts has multiple successful titles under his belt including my favorite game ever (Freelancer). Not even going to read the article given the source.

    Edit: Every time I check in on SC significant progress has been made. Arena Commander is far from vaporware. I'm completely content with how it's progressing.

    Doesn't mean what he is saying isn't wrong though. Chris Roberts seems to think too highly of himself. That is one BIG problem.


    http://www.infoworld.com/article/2613901/it-management/11-signs-your-it-project-is-doomed.html

    Read this article - more than half of the signs apply to CS.

    image

    "In 50 years, when I talk to my grandchildren about these days, I'll make sure to mention what an accomplished MMO player I was. They are going to be so proud ..."
    by Naqaj - 7/17/2013 MMORPG.com forum

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Figueira da FozMember EpicPosts: 4,109
    edited November 2016
    Eldurian said:
    I think Star Citizen has put forth a rather brilliant example of how to get an MMO started. Don't start it as an MMO. An MMO takes a massive world full of unique zones and things to find as you explore, crafting, an economy, character customization (visual and abilities), combat, graphics, player interaction tool such as chat and a friends list, a wide array of items with unique skins, massive quantities of different NPCs with different skins and behaviors etc. and if you don't have all of this on day one your game is a failure and people hate you. So in order to launch an MMO you need ALL of these things done on day one and any of them you don't do that well will be held against you.
    I wouldn't say that.

    Mostly Star Citizen wasn't one MMO but then grown on that area on design; thing is with the singleplayer campaign and all, they took on a massive thing to chew to develop at the same time.

    MMO's as it's very well known are not cheap neither fast to make comparing to the others, so the best start from one MMO would have a company already setup, with already one engine prepared for it and so on, so the support would exist. This is very visible as one of the hurdles of doing many ambitious things at once as you are also building your company from the ground-up.

    Indie Developers trying to create MMO's are always having struggles, and it usually falls on a development team too small for the ambition or just not enough money.
    Post edited by MaxBacon on
  • SlyLoKSlyLoK Sugar Grove, VAMember RarePosts: 2,213
    Avoid feature creep , any do overs and keep the project size reasonable and one can be made for less than a million.

    Team size , feature creep and do overs are the main reasons for high budgets.

    image

  • QuizzicalQuizzical Member EpicPosts: 18,112
    Lienhart said:
    OP, the only reason why I would follow you is to watch the shit wreck that is incoming if you tried this and make money documenting how you messed up.

    Your first mistake is asking a forum, full of MMORPG players, how much it costs to make an MMORPG. Go to a public game dev site, hell you can even use stackoverflow. You won't get monetary answers, but you'll get insight as to the difficult of creating an MMORPG. I don't think you appreciate just how difficult it is to create one. 

    And @ the "lets get everyone together to make a game as a school project" comment...do you want everyone to fail? Because that's how you'd fail an entire year of students.
    Asking how much it would cost is not the same as committing money to actually build a game.  There's nothing wrong with asking questions out of curiosity.
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