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The Aspirations And Pitfalls Of Being Chris Roberts

2

Comments

  • ArglebargleArglebargle Member EpicPosts: 3,367
    This should be fun.  Will have to read the whole thing and see how it compares to what my old Origin-ex friends have said.

    If you are holding out for the perfect game, the only game you play will be the waiting one.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,760
    edited August 2016
    Kefo said:
    Hold on now that's just going to throw Erillions and maxbacon into a tizzy. Clearly the article must be a fake since the character of this person is all hatred and has an agenda against SC
    Comes from someone who has called star citizen a "scam" yes.

    Kefo said:
    I'm not twisting anything. You highlighted one, not many, but one. Feel free to give more examples but if you actually read the article everything up to the SC portion is verified fact, you just don't like it because you can't change that Chris is a knucklehead when it comes to managing.
    I don't own you more examples, you come here demanding explanations to my opinion and view of it... For you if it is a fair balanced neutral article fine, for me it isn't. It takes some comments too far and supports them by speculative unproven claims, that goes as far back on his involvement with the whole SC / Escapist feud.

    So i'd wish for one article from a neutral standpoint from someone who wasn't involved on any of this. This is about the same tone that Derek Smart makes on his claims about CR's past and present (the speculation towards SC presently ofc), only with fancier words.
  • BalmongBalmong Member UncommonPosts: 170
    Kefo said:
    Balmong said:
    Hold on now that's just going to throw Erillions and maxbacon into a tizzy. Clearly the article must be a fake since the character of this person is all hatred and has an agenda against SC
    Nick Monroe does have a history of associating with the more vitriolic detractors, as well as making some pretty off the wall accusations himself. That being said, the article written after the GamesCom demo does show he can swallow his pride, unlike some of the other detractors.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    Hold on now that's just going to throw Erillions and maxbacon into a tizzy. Clearly the article must be a fake since the character of this person is all hatred and has an agenda against SC
    Comes from someone who has called star citizen a "scam" yes.

    Kefo said:
    I'm not twisting anything. You highlighted one, not many, but one. Feel free to give more examples but if you actually read the article everything up to the SC portion is verified fact, you just don't like it because you can't change that Chris is a knucklehead when it comes to managing.
    I don't own you more examples, you come here demanding explanations to my opinion and view of it... For you if it is a fair balanced neutral article fine, for me it isn't. It takes some comments too far and supports them by speculative unproven claims, that goes as far back on his involvement with the whole SC / Escapist feud.

    So i'd wish for one article from a neutral standpoint from someone who wasn't involved on any of this. This is about the same tone that Derek Smart makes on his claims about CR's past and present (the speculation towards SC presently ofc), only with fancier words.
    So according to you the article where he is praising the gamescon demo is a fake because he has called it a scam in the past? I'm not quite sure how to respond to that.

    As for the second part, no you don't get to try and dodge something you've said because you realize you've put your foot in your mouth. You clearly didn't read the article and were quick to jump on the bandwagon of posting negatively about the author instead of taking the time to refute his points except with generic comments. 

    You're welcome to your opinion but if you're going to make claims like "Such speculation and unproven claims he based himself to make other statements and lines of thought." then you better back up it when you get called on it.

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Balmong said:
    Kefo said:
    Balmong said:
    Hold on now that's just going to throw Erillions and maxbacon into a tizzy. Clearly the article must be a fake since the character of this person is all hatred and has an agenda against SC
    Nick Monroe does have a history of associating with the more vitriolic detractors, as well as making some pretty off the wall accusations himself. That being said, the article written after the GamesCom demo does show he can swallow his pride, unlike some of the other detractors.
    I have more respect for someone who can swallow their pride and give credit where credit is due then I would some of the posters in this thread.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,760
    edited August 2016
    Kefo said:
    <snip>
    I don't own you explanations to my opinion and view of what i read. Neither do you own me any. I dislike your behavior of attempting to put people against walls while trying to play moralist at them... "Witch Hunt"... At least, that's just my opinion.... I saw several bits of truth as a lie, stating half of the story, or even one side of the story that lead to a general understanding of something that is not, like the bit about the Concorde "extravagance", and specially the bit through the end where he makes the claim about the "many employees concerned".

    Kefo said:
    I have more respect for someone who can swallow their pride and give credit where credit is due then I would some of the posters in this thread.
    Agreed. ;)
  • PhaserlightPhaserlight Member EpicPosts: 3,071
    Since we're off the personality dissection reservation, "sham" is not the same thing as "scam"; it has more of an inept than malicious connotation, to me. Both imply falsehood, and I can see why one would garner that impression of Nick since he tweeted that. 

    I still find it brazen to make sweeping generalizations about all those having read any given piece of literature, especially not having read it oneself. I just don't have a stomach for that sort of thing.

    "The simple is the seal of the true and beauty is the splendor of truth" -Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar
    Authored 139 missions in Vendetta Online and 6 tracks in Distance

  • TalonsinTalonsin Member EpicPosts: 3,619
    spankybus said:
    I clicked on the link, saw what is basically a novel about one person...yea, and closed it as quick as I possibly could. Whatever craziness drove someone to write all of that...must border on obsession.


    (I did not read it or even click on the link, I am only commenting on what you wrote)

    Isnt the same true for those who post here every day, multiple times from the other side?  I mean, seriously... compared to the number of postings by someone here, that article is probably smaller than a speck of dust in comparison.  I think both sides show obsessive behavior.


    "Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game."  - SEANMCAD

  • Dagon13Dagon13 Member UncommonPosts: 566
    How does anyone take this stuff seriously anymore?  I wish they'd just release the game so we can advance to the next phase of these arguments.
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    MaxBacon said:
    Kefo said:
    <snip>
    I don't own you explanations to my opinion and view of what i read. Neither do you own me any. I dislike your behavior of attempting to put people against walls while trying to play moralist at them... "Witch Hunt"... At least, that's just my opinion.... I saw several bits of truth as a lie, stating half of the story, or even one side of the story that lead to a general understanding of something that is not, like the bit about the Concorde "extravagance", and specially the bit through the end where he makes the claim about the "many employees concerned".

    Kefo said:
    I have more respect for someone who can swallow their pride and give credit where credit is due then I would some of the posters in this thread.
    Agreed. ;)
    See that last bit after I saw several bits of truth I can accept as your opinion and respect you for it. Your first post not so much but I can let it die after your last post
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Dagon13 said:
    How does anyone take this stuff seriously anymore?  I wish they'd just release the game so we can advance to the next phase of these arguments.
    I would love for that to happen. At least then we can argue about what we think they did well and what they utterly fucked up. Or to go from one extreme to another, how it's the best game ever or how it's complete garbage who no redeeming qualities. The threads will be epic
  • rodarinrodarin Member EpicPosts: 2,611
    Dagon13 said:
    How does anyone take this stuff seriously anymore?  I wish they'd just release the game so we can advance to the next phase of these arguments.
    Because they cant and the only defense the supporters have right now is 'its all speculation'. Once speculation becomes the hard truth then they wont have anything to say.

    They fail to see the exact same pattern that Roberts has followed on everything he has eve done. Roberts probably thought people would forget his ineptitude since he was gone from the face of the earth for almost 15 years. But this project has taken on such a huge ;ife of its own of course people are going ot pull things from the past, and for good reason, especially since they are a mirror image of whats going on now. 

    Except now the money amount is much larger than it has ever been before (and growing for some bizarre reason).

    The criticisms and questions are so multi layered its hard to address them all WITHOUT seeming 'obsessed'. I mean there are definitely more questions than answers and more sub questions and follow up question on just about every topic under the sun in regards to this project. You cant simply pare them down to 'game' related, or 'past failure' related, to 'money' related, to 'drama' related. Because each one of those areas has A LOT of questions, and some of the reasons why are related amongst the other areas.
  • azarhalazarhal Member RarePosts: 1,402
    Acterius said:
    What I found interesting is the spending of 10 million dollars on mocap when he could have saved a lot of money by just renting it out for 25 to 50k a time. He clearly could have saved a lot of cash.
    It was the 10 million stretch goal, but that amount include all the stretch goals before it, not just the mocap "studio" (really it's more mocap equipment used for animating stuff like running). All the higher level cinematic animations for SQ42 was actually done at Imaginarium.

  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,760
    Acterius said:
    He says right there it is costing him 10 million. I wouldn't think how he got the money is in question, it's how much he spent on it. Just a waste, unless of course he plans on making movies. But I don't believe that was what this crowdfunding was for! 
    You are actually not understanding correctly how Stretch Goals worked here.

    The difference between the last stretch goal and the MoCap Goal was 1M, not 10M, that value is not indicative on any matter of its real cost, specially with the game having far more money than what was asked for the stretch goals. If the whole MoCap was set to cost 10M then there would be no game just mocap because that drained the funding of all the previous goals + Kickstarter.
  • MaxBaconMaxBacon Member LegendaryPosts: 7,760
    edited September 2016
    Acterius said:
    Now am really confused, he says he got 10 million to make a mocap studio but you say something different. Can you show me a link to what you are stating? Something that would explain what you mean?
    It's Stretch Goal 101 logic:
    • Goal 1: 1M = I'll do Cookies
    • Goal 2: 2M = I'll do Bacon
    The goal 2 cost didn't cost 2M, you actually asked for 1M to it.


    Oh SC: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/funding-goals
    10M included ALL the funding the game had till that moment, including its Kickstarter.
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,881
    Acterius said:
    MaxBacon said:
    Acterius said:
    He says right there it is costing him 10 million. I wouldn't think how he got the money is in question, it's how much he spent on it. Just a waste, unless of course he plans on making movies. But I don't believe that was what this crowdfunding was for! 
    You are actually not understanding correctly how Stretch Goals worked here.

    The difference between the last stretch goal and the MoCap Goal was 1M, not 10M, that value is not indicative on any matter of its real cost, specially with the game having far more money than what was asked for the stretch goals. If the whole MoCap was set to cost 10M then there would be no game just mocap because that drained the funding of all the previous goals + Kickstarter.

    Now am really confused, he says he got 10 million to make a mocap studio but you say something different. Can you show me a link to what you are stating? Something that would explain what you mean?
    A car costs $9 000, but if you pay $10 000 instead you'll also get air conditioning and leather seats.

    Stretch goals are the equivalent of adding air conditioning and leather seats to a computer game: Chris Roberts promises that if he gets $10 million, then he will not only give you the game, he also adds nice motion captured cutscenes to the deal.
     
  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    Personally, I think at this point and for some time, it has been about CR and his cronies enriching themselves on the "investment income" generated by all of the pledged money.

    All the money that CIG collected, is not going to just sit in someone's safe. It gets invested. And before the "huge effort" got rolling, for the first 1-2 years, the company expenses were not that much.

    So for the first 1-2 years, that 50-$75 mil or whatever it was, was generating nice investment income that no one was tracking from the outside, because: 1. CIG is not a public company and does not need to open the books, and 2. Because it is not money for "pledges" or sales, no one is going to be concerned with how it is distributed, because at the end, all the pledge money will get used to make the game.

    He can open the books at the end and say, "Here is the (shitty) game, and here are the records of the $110 mil+ spent on developing it." And it will be the truth as far as it goes, but not the $10-15 mil in funds generated by all that pledged money over the years, for which CR has no responsibility to put towards game development. And it would not even be illegal for him to pocket it.


    I am no conspiracy theorist generally, but I do know money and corporate finance, and this explanation is one of the few that fits the facts about the development and delays involving SC, to this point.

  • RhimeRhime Member UncommonPosts: 283
    Kefo said:
    Read it over and it is an interesting read especially to see what he did in the past and how he's repeating the mistakes again with SC.

    Lol..yea, cause you know more than anyone else.
  • VrikaVrika Member LegendaryPosts: 7,881
    edited September 2016
    Burntvet said:
    Personally, I think at this point and for some time, it has been about CR and his cronies enriching themselves on the "investment income" generated by all of the pledged money.

    All the money that CIG collected, is not going to just sit in someone's safe. It gets invested. And before the "huge effort" got rolling, for the first 1-2 years, the company expenses were not that much.

    So for the first 1-2 years, that 50-$75 mil or whatever it was, was generating nice investment income that no one was tracking from the outside, because: 1. CIG is not a public company and does not need to open the books, and 2. Because it is not money for "pledges" or sales, no one is going to be concerned with how it is distributed, because at the end, all the pledge money will get used to make the game.

    He can open the books at the end and say, "Here is the (shitty) game, and here are the records of the $110 mil+ spent on developing it." And it will be the truth as far as it goes, but not the $10-15 mil in funds generated by all that pledged money over the years, for which CR has no responsibility to put towards game development. And it would not even be illegal for him to pocket it.


    I am no conspiracy theorist generally, but I do know money and corporate finance, and this explanation is one of the few that fits the facts about the development and delays involving SC, to this point.

    No.

    If Star Citizen fails, it's so big that there will be some kind of official investigation to see how Cloud Imperium Games spent their money, and they will also look at what happened to profits made through investments.

    On the other hand if Star Citizen succeeds, Chris Roberts doesn't need to do anything like that. After he's delivered the game, any remaining backer money is his personal property to do whatever he wants with.


    But we should be really concerned about executive salaries in CIG. Chris Roberts could be paying himself $1 million a year, and another $1 million a year to his wife, and another $1 million a year to his brother. Even outrageous salaries are likely to pass legal inspection.
     
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 10,294
    Acterius said:
    What I found interesting is the spending of 10 million dollars on mocap when he could have saved a lot of money by just renting it out for 25 to 50k a time. He clearly could have saved a lot of cash.
    There was a space plant as a 50ish M$ Stretch Goal. No, it does not take 50.000.000 $ to create that piece of cosmetic fluff. 

    Mocap as 10ish M$ Stretch Goal not necessarily means that it cost them 10.000.000 $. :-)


    Have fun
  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    Rhime said:
    Kefo said:
    Read it over and it is an interesting read especially to see what he did in the past and how he's repeating the mistakes again with SC.

    Lol..yea, cause you know more than anyone else.
    Did I say I know more then anyone else?
  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    edited September 2016
    Vrika said:
    Burntvet said:
    Personally, I think at this point and for some time, it has been about CR and his cronies enriching themselves on the "investment income" generated by all of the pledged money.

    All the money that CIG collected, is not going to just sit in someone's safe. It gets invested. And before the "huge effort" got rolling, for the first 1-2 years, the company expenses were not that much.

    So for the first 1-2 years, that 50-$75 mil or whatever it was, was generating nice investment income that no one was tracking from the outside, because: 1. CIG is not a public company and does not need to open the books, and 2. Because it is not money for "pledges" or sales, no one is going to be concerned with how it is distributed, because at the end, all the pledge money will get used to make the game.

    He can open the books at the end and say, "Here is the (shitty) game, and here are the records of the $110 mil+ spent on developing it." And it will be the truth as far as it goes, but not the $10-15 mil in funds generated by all that pledged money over the years, for which CR has no responsibility to put towards game development. And it would not even be illegal for him to pocket it.


    I am no conspiracy theorist generally, but I do know money and corporate finance, and this explanation is one of the few that fits the facts about the development and delays involving SC, to this point.

    No.

    If Star Citizen fails, it's so big that there will be some kind of official investigation to see how Cloud Imperium Games spent their money, and they will also look at what happened to profits made through investments.

    On the other hand if Star Citizen succeeds, Chris Roberts doesn't need to do anything like that. After he's delivered the game, any remaining backer money is his personal property to do whatever he wants with.


    But we should be really concerned about executive salaries in CIG. Chris Roberts could be paying himself $1 million a year, and another $1 million a year to his wife, and another $1 million a year to his brother. Even outrageous salaries are likely to pass legal inspection.
    The thing you are missing is that there are practically no "fiduciary responsibilities" in regards to "responsibly" spending or using the "pledged" money. But money made from investments from donated dollars are under no constraint whatsoever.

    If there were actual, legal shareholders, it would be something different entirely.

    Even if customers were unhappy with how SC is released eventually, there is very little that "donors" can do. And that only goes as far as actual "donated" funds, not income generated from donated funds.

    And there is a difference.

    So regardless, CR could be pocketing ALL the investment income from the donated funds, and could have been doing that this whole time and it would potentially be legal, so long as he "releases" some kind of game, and documents that the "donated funds" were all spent.

    So long as he does that, no lawsuit can succeed, and the government can't prove any wrong doing, so long as all of the donated funds go to their stated purpose. And that is even if there were some kind of investigation, which is by no means certain, to begin with.

     The investment income from those donated funds can be under his mattress, and it would make no difference at that point.

    And the truth of it is, a project like this only gets dragged out this long, if the people at the top are getting paid.

    Otherwise, it would be out already.

  • adamlotus75adamlotus75 Member UncommonPosts: 387
    Reading the stuff about Freelancer, it's like Groundhog Day. Especially as he was using the same studio to make a live action / CGI movie at the same time.

    turned out peachy.
  • Turrican187Turrican187 Member UncommonPosts: 787
    Burntvet said:
    Personally, I think at this point and for some time, it has been about CR and his cronies enriching themselves on the "investment income" generated by all of the pledged money.

    All the money that CIG collected, is not going to just sit in someone's safe. It gets invested. And before the "huge effort" got rolling, for the first 1-2 years, the company expenses were not that much.

    So for the first 1-2 years, that 50-$75 mil or whatever it was, was generating nice investment income that no one was tracking from the outside, because: 1. CIG is not a public company and does not need to open the books, and 2. Because it is not money for "pledges" or sales, no one is going to be concerned with how it is distributed, because at the end, all the pledge money will get used to make the game.

    He can open the books at the end and say, "Here is the (shitty) game, and here are the records of the $110 mil+ spent on developing it." And it will be the truth as far as it goes, but not the $10-15 mil in funds generated by all that pledged money over the years, for which CR has no responsibility to put towards game development. And it would not even be illegal for him to pocket it.


    I am no conspiracy theorist generally, but I do know money and corporate finance, and this explanation is one of the few that fits the facts about the development and delays involving SC, to this point.

    Thats BS, CIG needed to have access to the money, no bank will give you money for an "investment" they can not use - If you put money in your account 99% of it will be unavaiable on day 1 because the bank is working with it and just keep in safe what they have to by law.
    if someone is going to put 50.000.000$ in his account and wants to have access to it they will give you nothing - more likely you have to pay administration fees.
    I guess you don't understand money development :)

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    edited September 2016
    Burntvet said:
    Personally, I think at this point and for some time, it has been about CR and his cronies enriching themselves on the "investment income" generated by all of the pledged money.

    All the money that CIG collected, is not going to just sit in someone's safe. It gets invested. And before the "huge effort" got rolling, for the first 1-2 years, the company expenses were not that much.

    So for the first 1-2 years, that 50-$75 mil or whatever it was, was generating nice investment income that no one was tracking from the outside, because: 1. CIG is not a public company and does not need to open the books, and 2. Because it is not money for "pledges" or sales, no one is going to be concerned with how it is distributed, because at the end, all the pledge money will get used to make the game.

    He can open the books at the end and say, "Here is the (shitty) game, and here are the records of the $110 mil+ spent on developing it." And it will be the truth as far as it goes, but not the $10-15 mil in funds generated by all that pledged money over the years, for which CR has no responsibility to put towards game development. And it would not even be illegal for him to pocket it.


    I am no conspiracy theorist generally, but I do know money and corporate finance, and this explanation is one of the few that fits the facts about the development and delays involving SC, to this point.

    Thats BS, CIG needed to have access to the money, no bank will give you money for an "investment" they can not use - If you put money in your account 99% of it will be unavaiable on day 1 because the bank is working with it and just keep in safe what they have to by law.
    if someone is going to put 50.000.000$ in his account and wants to have access to it they will give you nothing - more likely you have to pay administration fees.
    I guess you don't understand money development :)
    You must be a financial moron.... it is you that understands nothing. Have you ever had an account beyond a checking account?

    Investing large sums of money like that is not like having a checking account.

    For your ignorant self, let me give you a small theoretical scenario:

    As I mentioned in an earlier post, after initial fundraising and before development started in a large way, they had what? $50-$75 mil on hand? You take that, and break that down into several "buys" into various kinds of investment vehicles. Obviously, would not be all of it. Say $50 mil out of $75 mil. Spread it across a number bond funds, materials ETFs, equities, whatever. With investments that large, you'll often get a higher negotiated rate of return or other favorable terms.

    For the first 2 years, before CIG was SPENDING money in a large way, and even longer because CIG was continuing to raise money the whole time, that block of sequestered fund generates income each money, a lot of it. They did not need access to the large pot of money, because the monthly burn rate was still small.

    And further, if CIG EVER ran into a cash crunch because of such a large block sequestered cash, they could get a credit line in about 10 seconds, using any of the investment accounts as collateral, so access to all the liquid they would need on a monthly basis. Heck, they could even write off the interest to the credit line as a legitimate business expense, to let the investment funds keep working, because again, CR on some level will have to account for donated funds, but not funds generated by those donations.

    All of the money does not NEED to be totally liquid at one time, because they will never need it all in a single month or several months.

    No one is that stupid, that they are going to leave multiple 10s of millions of dollars in an account making no investment income or next to none.


    And since this is a private company with no stockholders that has taken "donated" money, this has created a situation that could be exploited in such a way legally, and with no recourse for the donors (because CIG is not a charity). Not even if the game is terrible or does not get released.

     All for the theoretical enrichment of the owners.

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