Have you ever seen topics about World of Warcraft and it's rise to power ? Well if you haven't here's the story.
Many say it's success was do to it's timing. MMO's were still in their infancy. Early mmos such as UO, EQ1, and so on were shells of what was to come. As good as these games were they need polish, they needed structure and story. Developers knew this, hence we got several popular mmos. EQ2, DAOC, FF11, CoH, WOW, and EVE just to name a few......BUT during this crucial time of feeding the starving one game stood out with its pristine everything.
That game was World of Warcraft.
It had Graphics that played on a toaster, it had story and its lore, It was an extremely large world for its time, Several starting areas and zones, it was seamless in it's open world, and catered to all ages............ALL THIS WITH IMPECCABLE TIMING !!!
Well, we went full circle and were back at that time again !............Players are once again starving, exactly where we were back in 2003.
This topic came to me because of a topic on the general forums. Something hit me like a ton of bricks. This guy posted a Youtube from a popular mmo reviewer about up coming games for 2016 and 17.
There "ALL" Asian grinders with cash shops !........For the most part this is what we got !
Looking on all Youtubes this is all their is. The West has given up, were back to where we started. The crowed here had changed hands, everyone here likes games online, not mmos........It may as well changed to an automotive forum, where people talk about car parts. One group moved out and another moved in. BUT UNDERSTAND THE REAL MMO PEOPLE ARE STILL OUT THEIR. Infact new mmo players are waiting to be born.
Pantheon Rise of the Fallen has a chance, a very big chance as long as they don't blow it !!!!!!!!......Take your time !!!!!!
THIS IS NOT ABOUT WORLD OF WARCRAFT.......IT'S ABOUT TIMING !!!!!!......PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS.
I think you've got history a bit wrong, or at least neglected a very important aspect of the WoW phenomenon. Blizzard had legions of players for their Warcraft RTS series, some believe that population was in excess of 20 million players. Blizzard successfully migrated these players from the RTS games and encouraged them to come to Azeroth and experience World of Warcraft.
Yes, WoW was a polished game at launch, but Blizzard had a captive audience (the big competitor in the RTS field was Westworld, makers of Command & Conquer) ready to at least give their new offering a try. The timing of its release was immaterial, in my opinion. They had brand loyalty -- lots of players wanting to play their game, far more than larger, more popular IPs (LotR, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.) have ever managed.
Pantheon does not have a massive following of players already playing in another genre. Neither did Everquest Next or Camelot Unlimited or Crowfall or any other game. There is no chance of Pantheon or any other game duplicating the success level of WoW.
The big assumption in the original post is that 'the real MMO people are still out there'. They may be, but they have divided and sub-divided or simply moved on. The assumption the developers of all the nostalgic based games are making is that the people are still there and they have forgotten why they moved on in the first place. People migrated from EQ1, AC, UO and others because of the newer convenience features offered by WoW, and later other games. Harsh death penalties went away, long corpse runs were forgotten, slow travel was left behind as new games introduced convenience features. Reverting back as an industry is only going to remind people why they left -- the time commitment is unforgiving.
As always, I believe the way forward for the genre isn't reverting back to 1999. The way forward has to be in the future. So far, all I've heard about Pantheon is the parts that someone implemented in 1999.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
You can't compare Wow's timing with any game,that was all about millions of NEW DSL gamers.
Timing now a days is merely to do with BORED gamer's who will buy anything if nothing else is competing with it.However with such a massive flooded market,these instant success stories soon die off within a couple months after the hype. Wow's era had so very few games to compete with and marketing back then was quite shallow,unlike now a days where all websites BS and hype any advertiser.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
If I recall accurately OP you have never played Everquest. I remember you wistfully saying so on one of the threads.
Those of us who have played Everquest can perhaps grasp more clearly why the genre has changed and why it took the direction it did and why WoW succeeded when it did. Since we saw and lived through the changes your predictions about Pantheon are mere hopes and not based on anything solid I'm afraid to say.
Personally I would like it to do well but it's a pipe dream and even Brad I'm sure expects around 300k at most. Don't place so much faith in the game until you actually play it.
Have you ever seen topics about World of Warcraft and it's rise to power ? Well if you haven't here's the story.
Many say it's success was do to it's timing. MMO's were still in their infancy. Early mmos such as UO, EQ1, and so on were shells of what was to come. As good as these games were they need polish, they needed structure and story. Developers knew this, hence we got several popular mmos. EQ2, DAOC, FF11, CoH, WOW, and EVE just to name a few......BUT during this crucial time of feeding the starving one game stood out with its pristine everything.
That game was World of Warcraft.
It had Graphics that played on a toaster, it had story and its lore, It was an extremely large world for its time, Several starting areas and zones, it was seamless in it's open world, and catered to all ages............ALL THIS WITH IMPECCABLE TIMING !!!
Well, we went full circle and were back at that time again !............Players are once again starving, exactly where we were back in 2003.
This topic came to me because of a topic on the general forums. Something hit me like a ton of bricks. This guy posted a Youtube from a popular mmo reviewer about up coming games for 2016 and 17.
There "ALL" Asian grinders with cash shops !........For the most part this is what we got !
Looking on all Youtubes this is all their is. The West has given up, were back to where we started. The crowed here had changed hands, everyone here likes games online, not mmos........It may as well changed to an automotive forum, where people talk about car parts. One group moved out and another moved in. BUT UNDERSTAND THE REAL MMO PEOPLE ARE STILL OUT THEIR. Infact new mmo players are waiting to be born.
Pantheon Rise of the Fallen has a chance, a very big chance as long as they don't blow it !!!!!!!!......Take your time !!!!!!
THIS IS NOT ABOUT WORLD OF WARCRAFT.......IT'S ABOUT TIMING !!!!!!......PLEASE UNDERSTAND THIS.
I think you've got history a bit wrong, or at least neglected a very important aspect of the WoW phenomenon. Blizzard had legions of players for their Warcraft RTS series, some believe that population was in excess of 20 million players. Blizzard successfully migrated these players from the RTS games and encouraged them to come to Azeroth and experience World of Warcraft.
Yes, WoW was a polished game at launch, but Blizzard had a captive audience (the big competitor in the RTS field was Westworld, makers of Command & Conquer) ready to at least give their new offering a try. The timing of its release was immaterial, in my opinion. They had brand loyalty -- lots of players wanting to play their game, far more than larger, more popular IPs (LotR, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.) have ever managed.
Pantheon does not have a massive following of players already playing in another genre. Neither did Everquest Next or Camelot Unlimited or Crowfall or any other game. There is no chance of Pantheon or any other game duplicating the success level of WoW.
The big assumption in the original post is that 'the real MMO people are still out there'. They may be, but they have divided and sub-divided or simply moved on. The assumption the developers of all the nostalgic based games are making is that the people are still there and they have forgotten why they moved on in the first place. People migrated from EQ1, AC, UO and others because of the newer convenience features offered by WoW, and later other games. Harsh death penalties went away, long corpse runs were forgotten, slow travel was left behind as new games introduced convenience features. Reverting back as an industry is only going to remind people why they left -- the time commitment is unforgiving.
As always, I believe the way forward for the genre isn't reverting back to 1999. The way forward has to be in the future. So far, all I've heard about Pantheon is the parts that someone implemented in 1999.
All good points, popularity and past history play a big part.
Will the message about Pantheon got out their ?.....It's hard to say, most here on mmorpg.com know about it. But who are we? Were a small percent.
I hate marketing, it used to be about advertising. Now it's about tricking.
If the game is good " word will definitely spread ".
If I recall accurately OP you have never played Everquest. I remember you wistfully saying so on one of the threads.
Those of us who have played Everquest can perhaps grasp more clearly why the genre has changed and why it took the direction it did and why WoW succeeded when it did. Since we saw and lived through the changes your predictions about Pantheon are mere hopes and not based on anything solid I'm afraid to say.
Personally I would like it to do well but it's a pipe dream and even Brad I'm sure expects around 300k at most. Don't place so much faith in the game until you actually play it.
My only concern is how well it's done.
People are guided into the barn like cows. No choices.
People have never been given a choice when the industry changed to Unicorns and Rainbows. I'm also using the assumption that mmo players are starving and will play anything, but it's not what they want.
This is not based on fact, but my years here studying hypes and let downs.
I really hate to say this, but it's amazing the resilience of how people can't learn from mistakes of let downs, they seem to turn around and do it again !!!!!!!......Maybe it's because they are starving for a good mmo no matter what.
THE GOOD NEWS they are starving and Pantheon should fill the void. If the game is well made, it will be big !
OP, Where did you buy your rose colored glasses? I've been looking for some. lol
On topic though, WoW's timing was impeccable yes. The timing of Pantheon however will be questionable, as it's around the expected release of Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, and Star Citizen. I for one will be much more likely to spend my time trying out those games rather than Pantheon, especially with what's been currently shown as possible game play.
OP, I have watched live streams of this game and it looks like ass. It will not be anything more than a 6 dressed up as a 9, and that's only if they change their animations and models completely, which is extremely unlikely as has already been pointed out in this thread.
I will happily eat these words however if the game does actually end up being good. I'm not immune to the lack of a decent MMORPG to waste my life in.
OP, I have watched live streams of this game and it looks like ass. It will not be anything more than a 6 dressed up as a 9, and that's only if they change their animations and models completely, which is extremely unlikely as has already been pointed out in this thread.
I will happily eat these words however if the game does actually end up being good. I'm not immune to the lack of a decent MMORPG to waste my life in.
I understand and agree,
I have to admit I have my worries, The streams are not that good.
If Pantheon releases in anything close to that state it will fail. Graphics and animations are not important to me but they have to be better than the given footage. I could even live with a cartoon style because it's more about gameplay. Cartoons like wow is a much MUCH safer road. People would get over it if the game was done well. With the realism look, this opens a door for a lot of controversy no matter what half the players think. People will argue graphics forever with the real look.
Managers can often be extremely close minded and stubborn, they can easily do more harm than good if they are stuck in the past or fixated. Anyone with long standing wisdom in the workforce would know what I'm talking about. Sophisticated is not always channeled in a good way. I hope this is not the case.
I'm basing everything on faith here.....It could be our last chance.....Impeccable timing is on their side.
OP, I have watched live streams of this game and it looks like ass. It will not be anything more than a 6 dressed up as a 9, and that's only if they change their animations and models completely, which is extremely unlikely as has already been pointed out in this thread.
I have to correct you here.. along with a few others who focus their opinions on current animations and models. The team VERY clearly stated numerous times that what you see are purely placeholder models and animations, which will be completely replaced. The reason for this is that it is important to get gameplay and machanics right first. In fact ALL game development & productions the final artwork is done late in the process.
Maybe in the excitement we are forgetting how early Pantheon is in development at this point?
I have to correct you here.. along with a few others who focus their opinions on current animations and models. The team VERY clearly stated numerous times that what you see are purely placeholder models and animations, which will be completely replaced. The reason for this is that it is important to get gameplay and machanics right first. In fact ALL game development & productions the final artwork is done late in the process.
Maybe in the excitement we are forgetting how early Pantheon is in development at this point?
Balderdash.
Artists can't do anything for the game besides create art. They won't have the skills to help with gameplay and mechanics any more than their programmers don't have the skills to create art. At this point most of the artwork you see is final if they're really planning their release in about 1 1/2 years.
Early mmos such as UO, EQ1, and so on were shells of what was to come.
I do not agree with this. To the contrary, one of the reasons I am here is that EQ had so many things that later games lacked. EQ was far from being a "shell."
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Early mmos such as UO, EQ1, and so on were shells of what was to come.
I do not agree with this. To the contrary, one of the reasons I am here is that EQ had so many things that later games lacked. EQ was far from being a "shell."
Pretty sure the OP never played any of the pre-WOW titles in their heydays, or he would know how feature rich and diverse so many were.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If this was truly the case, the EQ servers would be overflowing with players right now.
They arent because like a lot of MMOs they have aged and changed quite a bit. There is a reason something like project 99 has a sizable audience, hell WoW's vanilla private servers had a pretty huge crowd....people clearly miss the old design choices.
@Cortex666 It might sound hipster or w/e but I would love to see MMORPGS go back to being niche. Like anything when it's made mainstream it's over produced and made for the lowest common denominator. Everything feels like it's made by corporations to get the max amount of money and it straps away the passion.
For MMOS that was unfortunately WoW and it brought on too many copy cats and practices I don't remember in pretty WoW MMOS like sub fee games having cash shops (for things outside of like server transfers or more character slots ).
I also would miss F2P games because of how so many turn ugly with their cash shop tactics.
Early mmos such as UO, EQ1, and so on were shells of what was to come.
I do not agree with this. To the contrary, one of the reasons I am here is that EQ had so many things that later games lacked. EQ was far from being a "shell."
Pretty sure the OP never played any of the pre-WOW titles in their heydays, or he would know how feature rich and diverse so many were.
We've gone backwards so far.....
Literally they were not as feature rich as their current iterations or other modern games are.
Brokers/auction houses/safe trading systems - not there - people had to use chat in order to trade. Grouping tools - and I'm not talkng about LFD. I'm talking about tools built into games to help groups. Account/character - between creation, renaming, etc - account and character features are much more robust now.
What features were present in early games that aren't present now?
DAoC had the player housing market system in 2003. Which not only had a safe and easy way to sell and buy items, but it made player housing more than just a novelty for milking cash shop items like they are now.
Also it had a last name system after level 10 and you could change your last name at any time no credit card required. People would get creative, it was a fun part of social interaction.
It also had customization where it really counted because you could change your armor dye from a bunch of colors, and you didn't have to unlock them or swipe your credit card.
I'd argue that those grouping tools and queue systems, eliminated the need to create in game communities. Which has slowly killed large guilds, it seems every new mmo that comes out shrinks the guild cap a few more players each release. DAoC just had Guilds, and a Friends list. If you grouped with someone who you thought was a good player, or a cool person you added each other.
Early mmos such as UO, EQ1, and so on were shells of what was to come.
I do not agree with this. To the contrary, one of the reasons I am here is that EQ had so many things that later games lacked. EQ was far from being a "shell."
Pretty sure the OP never played any of the pre-WOW titles in their heydays, or he would know how feature rich and diverse so many were.
We've gone backwards so far.....
Literally they were not as feature rich as their current iterations or other modern games are.
Brokers/auction houses/safe trading systems - not there - people had to use chat in order to trade. Grouping tools - and I'm not talkng about LFD. I'm talking about tools built into games to help groups. Account/character - between creation, renaming, etc - account and character features are much more robust now.
What features were present in early games that aren't present now?
Community
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
If this was truly the case, the EQ servers would be overflowing with players right now.
They arent because like a lot of MMOs they have aged and changed quite a bit. There is a reason something like project 99 has a sizable audience, hell WoW's vanilla private servers had a pretty huge crowd....people clearly miss the old design choices.
This makes sense. Players essentially are looking to go back to the community they had. Which also brings up the question why developers would make changes to a formula that is working and makes the player base happy? I played these older games, and I quit when poor changes were made, but I never really cared why. I guess I just thought there's always going to be another one to take it's place.
I know they said in Pantheon that it was all placeholders, I brought it up in a live stream and was bombarded with the term...it's easy to throw out keywords and terms and let the player's imaginations take over as seen in a recent release of another game.....so as far as indie game developers go DTA.
Literally they were not as feature rich as their current iterations or other modern games are.
Brokers/auction houses/safe trading systems - not there - people had to use chat in order to trade. Grouping tools - and I'm not talkng about LFD. I'm talking about tools built into games to help groups. Account/character - between creation, renaming, etc - account and character features are much more robust now.
What features were present in early games that aren't present now?
Community
I truly think this is more of a societal issue than it is with games, even the communal games suffer in this day and age in this regard. People would quite simply prefer war against their neighbors rather than coming together to form a greater encompassing RP community.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
WoW was a phenomenon cause it could run on a toaster.
That helped for sure along with having blizzard and Warcrafts lore behind it. IPs or some sort of established world helps out alot. Me and my brother quit EQOA to play FFXI and a big reason was because of the FF name. It works out well for them because things like the monsters, summons, spells, jobs..ect all already existed along with being an RPG already. SE also have a very good looking and uniuqe art style that helped it stand out because they had the money to. Pantheon and SoL are using what is more generic fantasy styles based off pre done engines and have no IP or backlog of established lore to go off of...which is going to make things hard for people to look at and just except. I look at it now with friends and even though we love basically every idea listed, we look at the gameplay and world and are generally turned off.
Why do so many people talk about WoW's timing lol? The timing was awful, it tried to release the exact same time as Everquest 2. WoW succeeded because it was noticeably better than everyone else.
As for Pantheon, no one really knows on the timing because it could easily be delayed til 2018(and should be).
Yes, players really want hard content, that's why Wildstar flopped so hard after a month, when all players reached level 50 and the average player started to wipe 100x in a row in the first veteran dungeon.
"Wildstar had so many problems, it's not the difficult that made people quit"
Suuuuuure, except the billion posts in the forums saying the content was "overtuned" along with other excuses.
Oh, plus the wonderful average old MMO player, that will try to nitpick everything, 1 pixel out of place, 1 mechanic that they don't like? Better to start an inquisition in the forums and spread negativity like there is no tomorrow.
I'd love to have a game pre-wow like EQ, RO or something like that, but it's not gonna happen, players are delusional and bitter nowadays, nothing will be like those games.
Yes, players really want hard content, that's why Wildstar flopped so hard after a month, when all players reached level 50 and the average player started to wipe 100x in a row in the first veteran dungeon.
"Wildstar had so many problems, it's not the difficult that made people quit"
Suuuuuure, except the billion posts in the forums saying the content was "overtuned" along with other excuses.
Oh, plus the wonderful average old MMO player, that will try to nitpick everything, 1 pixel out of place, 1 mechanic that they don't like? Better to start an inquisition in the forums and spread negativity like there is no tomorrow.
I'd love to have a game pre-wow like EQ, RO or something like that, but it's not gonna happen, players are delusional and bitter nowadays, nothing will be like those games.
Wildstar was crap all around, that's why.
Repeat after me:
DOUBLE KILL !!!!............TRIPLE KILL !!!!
Please don't use Wildstar as an example.............Please.
Comments
Yes, WoW was a polished game at launch, but Blizzard had a captive audience (the big competitor in the RTS field was Westworld, makers of Command & Conquer) ready to at least give their new offering a try. The timing of its release was immaterial, in my opinion. They had brand loyalty -- lots of players wanting to play their game, far more than larger, more popular IPs (LotR, Star Wars, Star Trek, etc.) have ever managed.
Pantheon does not have a massive following of players already playing in another genre. Neither did Everquest Next or Camelot Unlimited or Crowfall or any other game. There is no chance of Pantheon or any other game duplicating the success level of WoW.
The big assumption in the original post is that 'the real MMO people are still out there'. They may be, but they have divided and sub-divided or simply moved on. The assumption the developers of all the nostalgic based games are making is that the people are still there and they have forgotten why they moved on in the first place. People migrated from EQ1, AC, UO and others because of the newer convenience features offered by WoW, and later other games. Harsh death penalties went away, long corpse runs were forgotten, slow travel was left behind as new games introduced convenience features. Reverting back as an industry is only going to remind people why they left -- the time commitment is unforgiving.
As always, I believe the way forward for the genre isn't reverting back to 1999. The way forward has to be in the future. So far, all I've heard about Pantheon is the parts that someone implemented in 1999.
Logic, my dear, merely enables one to be wrong with great authority.
Timing now a days is merely to do with BORED gamer's who will buy anything if nothing else is competing with it.However with such a massive flooded market,these instant success stories soon die off within a couple months after the hype.
Wow's era had so very few games to compete with and marketing back then was quite shallow,unlike now a days where all websites BS and hype any advertiser.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Those of us who have played Everquest can perhaps grasp more clearly why the genre has changed and why it took the direction it did and why WoW succeeded when it did. Since we saw and lived through the changes your predictions about Pantheon are mere hopes and not based on anything solid I'm afraid to say.
Personally I would like it to do well but it's a pipe dream and even Brad I'm sure expects around 300k at most. Don't place so much faith in the game until you actually play it.
All good points, popularity and past history play a big part.
Will the message about Pantheon got out their ?.....It's hard to say, most here on mmorpg.com know about it. But who are we? Were a small percent.
I hate marketing, it used to be about advertising. Now it's about tricking.
If the game is good " word will definitely spread ".
My only concern is how well it's done.
People are guided into the barn like cows. No choices.
People have never been given a choice when the industry changed to Unicorns and Rainbows. I'm also using the assumption that mmo players are starving and will play anything, but it's not what they want.
This is not based on fact, but my years here studying hypes and let downs.
I really hate to say this, but it's amazing the resilience of how people can't learn from mistakes of let downs, they seem to turn around and do it again !!!!!!!......Maybe it's because they are starving for a good mmo no matter what.
THE GOOD NEWS they are starving and Pantheon should fill the void. If the game is well made, it will be big !
It's like credit cards, they just don't catch on
On topic though, WoW's timing was impeccable yes. The timing of Pantheon however will be questionable, as it's around the expected release of Camelot Unchained, Crowfall, and Star Citizen. I for one will be much more likely to spend my time trying out those games rather than Pantheon, especially with what's been currently shown as possible game play.
I will happily eat these words however if the game does actually end up being good. I'm not immune to the lack of a decent MMORPG to waste my life in.
I understand and agree,
I have to admit I have my worries, The streams are not that good.
If Pantheon releases in anything close to that state it will fail. Graphics and animations are not important to me but they have to be better than the given footage. I could even live with a cartoon style because it's more about gameplay. Cartoons like wow is a much MUCH safer road. People would get over it if the game was done well. With the realism look, this opens a door for a lot of controversy no matter what half the players think. People will argue graphics forever with the real look.
Managers can often be extremely close minded and stubborn, they can easily do more harm than good if they are stuck in the past or fixated. Anyone with long standing wisdom in the workforce would know what I'm talking about. Sophisticated is not always channeled in a good way. I hope this is not the case.
I'm basing everything on faith here.....It could be our last chance.....Impeccable timing is on their side.
Lets hope they don't blow it !
Maybe in the excitement we are forgetting how early Pantheon is in development at this point?
"I am my connectome" https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HA7GwKXfJB0
Artists can't do anything for the game besides create art. They won't have the skills to help with gameplay and mechanics any more than their programmers don't have the skills to create art. At this point most of the artwork you see is final if they're really planning their release in about 1 1/2 years.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
We've gone backwards so far.....
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I know folks love their classic games man, but honestly if the new devs are going to throwback LIKE THIS, you might as well go fire up the old stuff.
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
For MMOS that was unfortunately WoW and it brought on too many copy cats and practices I don't remember in pretty WoW MMOS like sub fee games having cash shops (for things outside of like server transfers or more character slots ).
I also would miss F2P games because of how so many turn ugly with their cash shop tactics.
Also it had a last name system after level 10 and you could change your last name at any time no credit card required. People would get creative, it was a fun part of social interaction.
It also had customization where it really counted because you could change your armor dye from a bunch of colors, and you didn't have to unlock them or swipe your credit card.
I'd argue that those grouping tools and queue systems, eliminated the need to create in game communities. Which has slowly killed large guilds, it seems every new mmo that comes out shrinks the guild cap a few more players each release. DAoC just had Guilds, and a Friends list. If you grouped with someone who you thought was a good player, or a cool person you added each other.
That's just one game out of the many listed.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I know they said in Pantheon that it was all placeholders, I brought it up in a live stream and was bombarded with the term...it's easy to throw out keywords and terms and let the player's imaginations take over as seen in a recent release of another game.....so as far as indie game developers go DTA.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As for Pantheon, no one really knows on the timing because it could easily be delayed til 2018(and should be).
"Wildstar had so many problems, it's not the difficult that made people quit"
Suuuuuure, except the billion posts in the forums saying the content was "overtuned" along with other excuses.
Oh, plus the wonderful average old MMO player, that will try to nitpick everything, 1 pixel out of place, 1 mechanic that they don't like? Better to start an inquisition in the forums and spread negativity like there is no tomorrow.
I'd love to have a game pre-wow like EQ, RO or something like that, but it's not gonna happen, players are delusional and bitter nowadays, nothing will be like those games.
Wildstar was crap all around, that's why.
Repeat after me:
DOUBLE KILL !!!!............TRIPLE KILL !!!!
Please don't use Wildstar as an example.............Please.