An Obsidian Developer's Opinion On No Man's Sky Development

[Deleted User]

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SuperXero89

I think that being a small indy development studio, they should have been more careful with what they said when showing off the game.  No doubt they had big ideas for this game but lacked the manpower to fulfill all of them.  I say lets wait and see what this game morphs into over time.  I feel like the critics will have been right if the game is never expanded upon in a meaningful fashion.

Peajay123

Why can't someone from Hello Games explain why so many promised features were missing from the game, why it appears unfinished and if they plan to improve the game to make it fun and less repetitive?

holdenhamlet

I haven't been following the game too much, but if you say something like,

"the only way to know what you look like is for another player to see you." on the Late Show, there better actually be some form of multiplayer possibility in the game.

If there's no player modeling in the game and actually no multiplayer possibility, you really should not say stuff like that.

If you worked on multiplayer and something happened right before release making it impossible, tell people that.  Otherwise people have no choice but to assume that multiplayer concept was a straight up lie.

psiic

I look at it this way, they definitely have the money now to hire the people they need to give us the features they promised if they keep their word and give it to us for the $60 we have already paid then great. If they piss all the money away on new cars, new houses, partying their asses off and then decide they want to go back on their word and charge us for DLC and adding the content they promised for the original $60 then there is a real problem. 

Burntvet

If they were planning on releasing half the game they promised, they should have done it at half the price they charged.

As it is, they sold a $20 game for $60, and "promised" free DLCs in the future.

Too bad most gamers know what developer "promises" are generally worth.

The makers of Sword Coast Legends, for instance, promised all kinds of fixes and future content for their half finished, overly hyped, and underwhelming game, and then their company went under.

So what were their promises worth? Yeah....

[Deleted User]

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SlyLoK

I am still waiting to see what features are missing when people say they are missing..

No Forests - Debunked
No Large Lifeforms - Debunked
No Faction Interaction - Debunked
No Large Space Battles - Debunked
No Oceans - Debunked
Etc
Etc
Etc

I am having loads of fun playing and discovering NMS. It doesnt bother me if others dont like the game. 

Phaserlight

SlyLoK said:

I am still waiting to see what features are missing when people say they are missing..

No Forests - Debunked
No Large Lifeforms - Debunked
No Faction Interaction - Debunked
No Large Space Battles - Debunked
No Oceans - Debunked
Etc
Etc
Etc

I am having loads of fun playing and discovering NMS. It doesnt bother me if others dont like the game. 

The two biggest things that bother me are a) multiplayer, because it was very publicly implied that two players could potentially run into one another on the surface of a planet however unlikely, and b) although I only read about this after the fact I guess there isn't as much astrophysical fidelity as I was hoping for: i.e. I've read that you are just as likely to run into an ice planet orbiting close in to a hot sun as on the outer fringes, there isn't really any "Goldilocks zone" effect.

b) is disappointing, but I'd be willing to overlook this.  I had a great time with games like "Cosmic Osmo" as a kid: realism isn't everything.

a) is more troubling because Sean had plenty of time to correct this implication, and didn't.  Remember this photo?



Yeah, that was July 7th.

...no word that anything was going to be the slightest deviant from what was presented in interviews from that time until now.

The way I see it, from July 7th until the beginning of August he had two options:

1: "We need more time to give you the game we promised.  It may be a while, but we are dedicated to bringing the vision we've presented to you to life"

or

2: "We've had to cut some features from our game; here is what's going to be different"

Instead, Hello Games' approach seems to be 'launch, and hope no-one notices'.  This appears to have backfired.

I can't say whether they deserve it or not.

Herase

DMKano said:

While I agree with the general gist of the Obsidian dev post, in case of No Man's Sky - they over promised WAY too many things.

Was it intentional? We will never know, but the failed promises are numerous and especially when you hear them on national TV it is pretty cringworthy. 

They should have been upfront about the state of the game at launch and addressed all the broken/missing features that were promised.

Pretty much the problem I have.

I'm fine with delays or problems occurring, just bloody tell me lol, but when they keep hush and in pretty much every interview up to launch say one thing, then launch comes and we're given something else with not very much explanation, for me, that's a problem.

Why are other developers having to guess or try to explain it? We need info from Hello games on this.

Thomas2006

Herase said:

DMKano said:

While I agree with the general gist of the Obsidian dev post, in case of No Man's Sky - they over promised WAY too many things.

Was it intentional? We will never know, but the failed promises are numerous and especially when you hear them on national TV it is pretty cringworthy. 

They should have been upfront about the state of the game at launch and addressed all the broken/missing features that were promised.

Pretty much the problem I have.

I'm fine with delays or problems occurring, just bloody tell me lol, but when they keep hush and in pretty much every interview up to launch say one thing, then launch comes and we're given something else with not very much explanation, for me, that's a problem.

Why are other developers having to guess or try to explain it? We need info from Hello games on this.

This has been the whole problem to start with. Vauge / little to no answers to any questions. It's almost like someone else made the game and he is just guessing as to what is there / is not there.

If he / they would have just come out an been honest saying we had to cut XX because of X. You know people might have got mad for a bit but they would have atleast came into the game with the right expectations.

YashaX

I don't understand how people can pre-order a game from a new developer based on the hype alone. Its like throwing your money into the wind, or buying a lottery ticket. You just had to wait a little bit, see the reviews after launch and then decide whether to buy it. 

A game like Skyrim is worthy of a pre-order. Made by an experienced team with several big successful games under their belt, and a year or so of in-depth disclosure, previews etc about the game itself before release. 

Why do you do it?


 

 

Burntvet

blueturtle13 said:

Burntvet said:

If they were planning on releasing half the game they promised, they should have done it at half the price they charged.

As it is, they sold a $20 game for $60, and "promised" free DLCs in the future.

Too bad most gamers know what developer "promises" are generally worth.

The makers of Sword Coast Legends, for instance, promised all kinds of fixes and future content for their half finished, overly hyped, and underwhelming game, and then their company went under.

So what were their promises worth? Yeah....

Really it is not the developer's fault but the publisher's. They are just 15 amateur game makers. The publisher set the price not HG.

As the end user, that is irrelevant to me.

I don't care "how the sausage is made", who is responsible for what and when decisions were made.

It matters that a game was sold at a AAA price without being a AAA game or really in "release condition". Missing features that were promised, another thing that doesn't matter to me as to why, except that they are missing.

So really, they can parcel out the blame among themselves, that is not for me to do.

It was for me to get a refund.

FrodoFragins

Peajay123 said:

Why can't someone from Hello Games explain why so many promised features were missing from the game, why it appears unfinished and if they plan to improve the game to make it fun and less repetitive?

Exactly - that reddit post ignores major issues with how Hello Games communicates with their customers.

sdeleon515

Not going anywhere near the "white~knighting" of the game but I paid heavy attention to it and to a lot of the sites and the only thing that prevented me from pre-ordering it was the concern that there was really less of a promise of what people are posting, from multiplayer and player interaction to the game experience, and more of a "this is what we are aiming to do and you're going to need to draw some conclusions on it" more ordeal. The general conclusions I drew based on the actual statements from Hello Games and Sean Murray was here's a universe, you get to explore it and its really never-ending. That's really it and that's the core impression and, oddly it appealed to me but I felt I'd get bored at some point and the cost reference made me go with a "no-buy" signal overall. 

That being said I never actually got the impression from the studio about a lot of "you can do this with multiplayer" or "you can do that" because they were vague and really did the dance of "we're exploring what's possible with that multiplayer". Also there is a part of the "there's none of that in my game" but "well its in everyone elses game except yours" ordeal. 

That's really I feel is the problem; the hype when you visit forums, critic sites and tons of other stuff, the hype took an amazing life for itself! If you solely read and watch what Hello Games and Sean Murray said, especially at E3, you got the "hey this is a space exploration game that never ends" and there wasn't any emphasis "hey its such a vast universe with multiplayer" or "its going to cater to player-to-player interaction" or "you're going to be able to explore everything on the planet and achieve outcome x, y, z" because I don't even recall that ever being said. 

That's where I am really puzzled because I never got the impression or belief of what a lot of people are posting [and that's even after several hours of youtubing as much as possible before wondering if I should get Fallout 4's season pass and a few rentals or No Man's Sky]. 

The communication on Hello Games, I do admit, is a bit lackluster and I feel the only thing they needed to do was really be concrete on the core aspect of what you can do on the game more so than the last E3 announcement because, even after the E3 gameplays, a lot of the websites from Kotaku to Toms to whatever just took a life on its own. 

Fish_Tacos

DMKano said:

...

Was it intentional? We will never know, but the failed promises are numerous and especially when you hear them on national TV it is pretty cringworthy. 

They should have been upfront about the state of the game at launch and addressed all the broken/missing features that were promised.

This. 

My gut level reaction (may be wrong, of course) is that he was lying (misrepresenting). I'm thinking of the questions he was asked about being able to see other players and whether griefing was possible. He did later come out and say on twitter clearly that there was no multiplayer, but it was pretty much at the last minute before release.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A8P2CZg3sJQ

k61977

Personally I would rather see a developer hold onto a game and delay over and over than see things cut left and right.  And as a developer know that it is best to let the community know there are problems, don't just cut things or not deliver on things that have been talked about without letting them know why.  There are many people that are upset because what was advertised was not what they got.

I am not counted among them as I don't fall into the hype anymore.  I go into games with no expectations, unless it is a developer I have trusted for a while, then I may have some expectations.  And I will very rarely preorder a game, total of 2 in the last 5 years, and have stopped backing games altogether now myself.

But I do think those gamers that bought into this game thinking it was going to be more of a multiplayer aspect do have some room to be upset.  If they preordered based around when the developer was hinting at multiplayer then sure they deserve to get a refund if they are that upset about it.

Most people understand there are issues and things get cut last minute, etc...but don't set release dates at all.  Do like others and say it will be ready when it is finished.  Don't hem yourself into a deadline.  I know this can be really hard for a small team as they need the hype and the money to keep going which you really only get with deadlines, etc...

Overall the game is not a bad game for what it is.  It is more of an exploration game, which is a good feel for this game.  Would it have been nice to be able to explore and run into others, sure, but is that game breaking if you don't, no. 

Since the game has launched and nothing can be done about that now, something that can make this a really good game is the developer working with modders now.  If something is great and a ton of people are using it reach out to the modder and get their permission to actually add it to the game.  Sometimes mods are better than the original and it is always a good idea to look at the talent that could be added in the future.

[Deleted User]

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BMBender

blueturtle13 said:

It is hard to remember that as video game developers we are still human. We are not evil villains twirling our mustaches cackling maniacally "The people who play my games, who pay my bills, what can I do today to make them more miserable?! Muahahahahahah!"; We are gamers as well. We play the same games you guys play. You don't go into game development to get rich, there are some amazing people here who could be making 2 to 4 times as much working for google.

 

(It is why as developers we try to say little or speak in the vaguest way unless something is like 100% 100%)

 

It seems the real issue seems to be the people feel mislead and lied to. I want to objectively ask you why you think he would do that? What does he have to gain from lying about these features? Isn't that pretty much professional suicide? You feel like he did lie now please share why you felt he lied.

To those who are upset and angry over what they got vs what they were told they were getting, are you willing to let them fix their mistakes? A lot of people feel you are here just to watch their ship sink and burn. Is it past the point of apologies and redemption for you? I want to know your honest opinions here.

I don't think we are getting the whole picture here, and I don't think we ever will honestly. But my personal opinion is that I don't think it is as black and white or cut and dry as people want it to be. I can't see WHY he would sabotage his passion project and tank his career. But I also hope they are able to address things and clear some things up.

Personally I don't want No Man's Sky to crash and burn. I hope they can continue to work on it. For my own personal greedy reasons."

Posted with Permission:
https://www.reddit.com/r/NoMansSkyTheGame/comments/4ydj0q/a_video_game_developers_opinion_on_what_happened/

Thanks StormbringerGT

The points you bring up about the logistics of how/why/when things get cut are valid but arnt' really the  issue driving the negativity.  The simple fact is certain features(and it's a pretty extensive laundry list) functionality was promised, implied, and PR spined that were not delivered upon and no warning of such prior to sale.   The reasons why this may or may not have happened aren't the consumers problems to fix, address, or otherwise defend.  That's the product sellers job.  Features getting cut...it happens.  Features getting cut, marketed as complete, and not delivered...pretty much defines a bad business practice.  And is an excellent way to destroy trust and goodwill.

H0urg1ass

blueturtle13 said:

Burntvet said:

If they were planning on releasing half the game they promised, they should have done it at half the price they charged.

As it is, they sold a $20 game for $60, and "promised" free DLCs in the future.

Too bad most gamers know what developer "promises" are generally worth.

The makers of Sword Coast Legends, for instance, promised all kinds of fixes and future content for their half finished, overly hyped, and underwhelming game, and then their company went under.

So what were their promises worth? Yeah....

Really it is not the developer's fault but the publisher's. They are just 15 amateur game makers. The publisher set the price not HG.

This is true, and they priced a few of us out of the market.  I'm not interested in a feature depleted game about walking around on a planet naming things at $60.  Even at $20 I would have a difficult time cracking open my wallet, but $60 and promises?  Call me crazy, but the only six people I give money based on promises are blood kin.

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LIOKI

Fake it until you make it...indie dev teams moto nowadays.

BMBender

SlyLoK said:

I am still waiting to see what features are missing when people say they are missing..

No Forests - Debunked
No Large Lifeforms - Debunked
No Faction Interaction - Debunked
No Large Space Battles - Debunked
No Oceans - Debunked
Etc
Etc
Etc

I am having loads of fun playing and discovering NMS. It doesnt bother me if others dont like the game. 

Some dude spent a lot of time/effort on such  a list.  I personally have no idea how accurate it is as NMS isn't a game I followed.  From the brief skim I did of it looks like he only sourced from official statement about features promised-not delivered.   Doesn't appear he's got any he said/she said stuff in there.  /shrugs if it's at all accurate and if no official statement prior to point of sale informing those features cut wouldn't be in the game...I can see why people are upset if they purchased based in part or in whole based upon those features.
https://archive.is/V5Zns

EDIT warning the document is frigging huge(swhy I only skimmed) so set some time aside if you wish to peruse.

k61977

blueturtle13 said:

I agree. Yet the list of features cut can be added later. Anyone thinking multiplayer was going to be a thing was just being silly. We knew in 2014 multiplayer chance was near zero.
 With that many planets in a universe that large? Finding another actual player would be near miracle level.

The only problem with that is that a couple players by chance did end up on the same world.  It was this fact that lead many people to have issues, because when it happened it showed that what the developer had been pointing to that it may have multiplayer was untrue.  They should never had hinted at multiplayer at all and sold it as a single player game with a database that is shared online.  They would have still most likely have had great playerbase that wouldn't have been turned by the misinformation.  This is what happens when you don't have a PR department like some others have stated.

 As of today the developer has came out and flat out said that it is a single player game so that no one is confused by this.  Believe it was done by tweet can't remember.

acidblood

Peajay123 said:

Why can't someone from Hello Games explain why so many promised features were missing from the game, why it appears unfinished and if they plan to improve the game to make it fun and less repetitive?

I would like to know this as well, and while I'm sure they are all very busy (and lacking sleep) it seems like one of the best things they (probably Sean) could do at this point is to clear the air with both an apology (even if it wasn't entirely his fault that people misunderstood certain things) and a realistic (even if rough) plan for the future of NMS (i.e. are they planing to significantly improve the fundamental gameplay? Or just add new assets?).

I'm still hopefully for the future of NMS (the procedural tech as a base is pretty cool), but it desperately needs some big improvements in gameplay (and I don't mean a scripted story, it should remain an exploration game) if it has any hope of being more than a curious tech demo (and any hope of people buying NMS2).