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Five Things MMO Gamers Should Complain About - The List at MMORPG.com

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  • MitaraMitara Member UncommonPosts: 755
    Option 1 : Shroud of the Avatar just had their "Telethon" whatever that is, i would describe it mostly as a money grabber...
  • monochrome19monochrome19 Member UncommonPosts: 723
    The only thing I feel compelled to complain about is my inability to find an MMO I like.
  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,142
    waynejr2 said:
    #5 Subscriptions were paid to access a service. Stupid people started to make the false claim that it was for updates. Stop spreading this lie.

    As to the whole "no longer acceptable for MMOs to charge for subscription" line. Sounds like another made up "Fact". You haven't even tried to make a convincing argument to support this point.
    The claim that subscription is for creating content over time usually comes from developers and publishers. The teams behind rift and elder scrolls online promised almost monthly updates before they launched the game.

    If we look at recent games most customers just aren't buying the argument that subscription is about paying to access a service. That's why very few mmorpg remain as P2P beyond the first year.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • immodiumimmodium Member RarePosts: 2,610
    edited August 2016
    waynejr2 said:

    As to the whole "no longer acceptable for MMOs to charge for subscription" line. Sounds like another made up "Fact". You haven't even tried to make a convincing argument to support this point.

    Personally, compared to online gaming at the time in the late 90's, I didn't think MMORPGs could justify charging a monthly subscription fee.

    You had to though if you wanted to PvE with people in an RPG.

    For me it was never acceptable. Paying a subscription fee for a low rate RPG experience (compared to single player games) and PvP (compared to other online games) was IMO, taking the piss. Just so you can play with others.

    IMO, I'm not surprised mandatory subs died.

    image
  • fs23otmfs23otm Member RarePosts: 506
    edited August 2016
    #5 is utter garbage. Subscriptions games are not about "updates". They are about having everything in the game without a cash shop, or at a minimal having everything in the game and a few skins in a cash shop. I would rather pay 15 a month, and know i have the whole game, then be shamed by some cash shop. F2P games need to be shut down... 99.9999% of them are horrible
  • ShaighShaigh Member EpicPosts: 2,142
    fs23otm said:
    #5 is utter garbage. Subscriptions games are not about "updates". They are about having everything in the game without a cash shop, or at a minimal having everything in the game and a few skins in a cash shop. I would rather pay 15 a month, and know i have the whole game, then be shamed by some cash shop. F2P games need to be shut down... 99.9999% of them are horrible
    While there used to be a good reason why mmorpg had a subscription cost back in the day (server costs) that reason isn't valid anymore. Destiny and the division shows that you can create expensive online games by just relying on box costs, content dlc, a few costumes and still make a huge profit.

    If subscriptions isn't there to pay for updates you are just putting money directly in the publishers pocket.
    Iselin: And the next person who says "but it's a business, they need to make money" can just go fuck yourself.
  • GreyedGreyed Member UncommonPosts: 137


    Just out of curiosity, how is WoW bad for this? How is the endgame in WoW PvP only? Are you sure we are talking about World of Warcraft?



    Early WoW PvE players were constantly bent over the table because of issues with powers being unbalanced in PvP. So the powers were changed with no adjustments to how it impacted the PvE side of things.

    But yeah, I admit, I could've picked a better example to go with BDO. TBH it is more of a criticism to the players who look to MMOs for PvP and demand all MMOs must have PvP even games where the vast majority of the time you're doing PvE. I honestly feel that this is why MOBAs are so popular; they are the distilling of the MMO PvP experience stripped away from the long-form PvE aspects of MMOs.

    Also I meant to give good examples more than bad so... EVE Online, kudos for going PvP and sticking to it. :)

    Not just another pretty color.

  • victorbjrvictorbjr Member UncommonPosts: 212
    Can we get an article defining what constitutes a respectable complaint as opposed to an unreasonable or insane complaint?

    A writer and gamer from the Philippines. Loves his mom dearly. :)

    Can also be found on http://www.gamesandgeekery.com

  • victorbjrvictorbjr Member UncommonPosts: 212
    To be clear, I just want a list-article on it, just so I can share it online. :D

    A writer and gamer from the Philippines. Loves his mom dearly. :)

    Can also be found on http://www.gamesandgeekery.com

  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    I don't like bad ports.  Then waiting a year to get a patched up game that's finally playable.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • GaendricGaendric Member UncommonPosts: 624
    edited August 2016
    I doubt hyping is ever going to go away, might as well accept it and just ignore the extreme cases.
    Even if devs would dial it back, the players wouldn't.

    #1 is a good one, totally agree on that.

    Post edited by Gaendric on
  • BartDaCatBartDaCat Member UncommonPosts: 813
    I can definitely think of some prime examples that fit into each of these categories. It's a shame that there are still some that very obviously view the game community as lizard-brained fish in a barrel.

    I will admit that consumers are partially responsible for the greedy practices that some publishers have adopted, and until they wise up, consumers are at fault if they continue to get fleeced. In a perfect world we wouldn't have unsavory publishers looking for ways to land their next cash shop "whales", but trust me when I say (after sitting in a room full of various game publishers at a dev convention discussing pay models) that they are still looking for creative ways to squeeze more money out of their customers, and none of them seem ashamed to admit it.

    In the end, most of us are paying consumers (with the exception of those that casually surf from F2P to F2P), and like any other consumer we have the right to complain about a product that doesn't meet the description given or our expectations (within reason).

    Consumers should also be aware of "star developer" hype. It's like those Food Network "stars" that sell the licensing rights to their names so they can be slapped on sub-standard products like sh**ty frying pans sold at Wal-Mart and pasta sauce that tastes like a can of S&W plain stewed tomatoes. Or, even worse, when one of them thinks so highly of themselves that they open a restaurant under their own name and it offers food that's of lesser quality than just going to your local Applebee's (I'm looking at YOU, "Lord Brittish").

    In the end, it's still a consumer based product. As a consumer you have every right file reasonable complaints, but as with any other product you should do your research and practice some restraint, as this particular industry has so often taught all of us.

    Due to its very nature as a digital property, there are those that have fought long and hard to protect the guys taking your money and finding ways to classify digital property as a separate entity apart from any other consumer product, where you somehow only purchase the right to use said products but are not the "owner", despite having paid full price for it.

    In the realm of video game entertainment, buyer MOST DEFINITELY beware.


  • GladDogGladDog Member RarePosts: 1,097
    When Korean game are designed they are designed for Korean bandwidth only, when they reach NA, which is woefully behind Korea in terms of bandwidth, creates a lot of dysfunction in the game, a lag that never seems to go away. If Korean game developers actually developed two versions of the design, one for Korean Bandwidth and one for NA Bandwidth.

    http://www.businessinsider.com/fastest-internet-connection-speeds-2015-5

    We are ranked 17th in the world, South Korea is ranked number 1. (state owned broadband twice as fast, half the cost, maybe would could learn something from Korea)

    Anyhow, gripe number two, when it comes to Korean games, the never ending Frankenstein patches in playing the game of catch up with content. These patches are horrible, glitchy as hell, bugs a plenty and none seem to get fixed because we are woefully behind in patches. If I am paying good money for a game, I want the game to be caught up to Korean version asap, no more Frankenstein patches, have had my fill of them.
    The broadband is state-owned, but trust me, the Korean populace is paying for it by the very inefficient method of taxation.  The average Korean makes less than half what the average American makes, they could not have any internet at all if the gov't was not subsidizing it.  

    Also, a rather large part of the speed discrepancy in the US is because of areas like Wyoming, Alaska and North Dakota, where satellite internet is the only method available to many, many residents.  Wyoming, btw, is 3 times the size of South Korea with about 1% of the population.  It is a lot easier to get an efficient internet infrastructure in areas like South Korea where the population is that dense.

    Even at that, the US is ahead of over 92% of all nations for internet speed.  If you factor out places like Wyoming, Alaska and North Dakota, I would not be surprised if US speeds were in the top 5.

    I'm just making this point because you don't want the gov't in charge of your internet, not just because of big brother looking over your shoulder, but because all governments seem to enjoy proving over and over again how inefficient they are at handling taxpayer money.  The South Koreans are paying through the nose for their internet, but just not in a monthly payment form.

    As far as the horrible patches, blame the western publishers, not the Korean game developers.  Thewestern publishers are the ones that need to convert the patch from its Korean beginnings to the NA/EU version.  If they 'Frankenstein' it, it is on them, not the game developer.


    The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!


  • AlverantAlverant Member RarePosts: 1,320

    waynejr2 said:

    Players need to be mature adults and become better consumers. I suspect that is way too much to ask for.


    It's easy to say "be better consumers" but hard to do. It's really the same thing as #getgood!!1! without offering any sugestions. How can a person be a better consumer when businesses try so hard to deceive their customers? Next time you go grocery shopping look at the packaging. Do you REALLY think your food is going to look like that when you get home? They're selling you on a dream and making promises they don't have to keep. Games are the same way.

    How can you be a better consumer if there's no way to tell who is telling the truth. Most of us already have full-time jobs, you can't expect us to spend our free time searching the depths of the internet to verify every iota of information. There has to be a limit about what a business can say and they have to be held to that limit.
  • AlverantAlverant Member RarePosts: 1,320

    GladDog said:

    I'm just making this point because you don't want the gov't in charge of your internet, not just because of big brother looking over your shoulder, but because all governments seem to enjoy proving over and over again how inefficient they are at handling taxpayer money.


    How is that any different than what businesses do? Didn't you hear, Microsoft and Adobe want to transition to a subscription model for their products. And did you every try and cancel a contract with your ISP over the phone? There's a reason why Comcast is rated worst in customer service. I'd rather put the government in charge than a business that not only doesn't provide the speeds promised but has the habit of continuing to charge people after they canceled their service.

    Oh and let's not forget the government built the internet in the first place. Your ISP is just the last step between the main network and your house. You may also want to check out the USPS. It manages to turn a profit and doesn't use taxpayer funds. Most of the inefficiency happens when you hand things over to free enterprise private contractors.
  • Octagon7711Octagon7711 Member LegendaryPosts: 9,000
    Micro-transactions in RPGs.  I heard that's the next big thing.

    "We all do the best we can based on life experience, point of view, and our ability to believe in ourselves." - Naropa      "We don't see things as they are, we see them as we are."  SR Covey

  • renstarensta Member RarePosts: 728
    Good list,people should play and support only games with the marketing model of-
    1.pure subscription games
    2.Buy to play with a cash shop like GW2
    3.Free to play like league of legends\path of exile.

    image


    Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
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  • renstarensta Member RarePosts: 728

    Alverant said:



    waynejr2 said:


    Players need to be mature adults and become better consumers. I suspect that is way too much to ask for.





    It's easy to say "be better consumers" but hard to do. It's really the same thing as #getgood!!1! without offering any sugestions. How can a person be a better consumer when businesses try so hard to deceive their customers? Next time you go grocery shopping look at the packaging. Do you REALLY think your food is going to look like that when you get home? They're selling you on a dream and making promises they don't have to keep. Games are the same way.



    How can you be a better consumer if there's no way to tell who is telling the truth. Most of us already have full-time jobs, you can't expect us to spend our free time searching the depths of the internet to verify every iota of information. There has to be a limit about what a business can say and they have to be held to that limit.



    Meh... just wait for the game to be out,dont buy into early access,ect.... then you have the full knowledge of what type of game its going to be.
    For example just with the pets and gambling mechanics in BDO,it was obvious its going to be a cash grab.... heck the game is free to play in korea no? .... further more,any buy to play game should have a 1 day at least free trail,only because its true we cant trust the publishers anymore and might get deceived. hell many single player games offer demos.... it used to be very common... today its all about hype and deception... how sad.

    image


    Basically clicking away text windows ruins every MMO, try to have fun instead of rushing things. Without story and lore all there is left is a bunch of mechanics.
    Reply
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  • BurntvetBurntvet Member RarePosts: 3,465
    edited August 2016
    Without a doubt, for me #6 is and should be the "The Corrupt Gaming Press that Conspires with Devs/Pubs Against the Gamers' Interests".

    How many times have their been complete BS articles praising shovelware games to the skies from paid advertisers, at various websites?

    How many over-inflated reviews have been put out, that omit the problems a game has, and over emphasize the good parts of a game for the sole purpose of selling product?

    How many times has the so called gaming press been complicit in publishers buying positive press and reviews (and been caught doing it)?


    More than a few to all of the above.

  • GladDogGladDog Member RarePosts: 1,097
    Alverant said:

    GladDog said:

    I'm just making this point because you don't want the gov't in charge of your internet, not just because of big brother looking over your shoulder, but because all governments seem to enjoy proving over and over again how inefficient they are at handling taxpayer money.


    How is that any different than what businesses do? Didn't you hear, Microsoft and Adobe want to transition to a subscription model for their products. And did you every try and cancel a contract with your ISP over the phone? There's a reason why Comcast is rated worst in customer service. I'd rather put the government in charge than a business that not only doesn't provide the speeds promised but has the habit of continuing to charge people after they canceled their service.

    Oh and let's not forget the government built the internet in the first place. Your ISP is just the last step between the main network and your house. You may also want to check out the USPS. It manages to turn a profit and doesn't use taxpayer funds. Most of the inefficiency happens when you hand things over to free enterprise private contractors.
    How about Welfare?  Well under half of the money designated to Welfare actually is paid to people on welfare.  The rest is bureaucracy.  And lets talk about welfare.  Here is a system that is self propagating.  If you, as a welfare worker, do the job people THINK you are doing and help a lot of people get off welfare, what did you do?

    You eliminated your own job.  Because of that very factor, welfare will only continue to grow.  That is what happens when gov't takes over anything.

    Comcast has problems, but in my area I have real competition, and they act like it.  Yeah, they are a pain, but those people you talk to on the phone get real nice when they know there is REAL competition in your area.

    ---------------------

    And the USPS is a terrible example.  In this article it shows that the USPS made their first profitable quarter IN ALMOST FIVE YEARS at the end of 2015.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/federal-eye/wp/2016/02/14/why-usps-doesnt-celebrate-rare-net-profit-and-a-big-service-cut-plan-dies/

    To quote that article,

    "After years of singing the blues, postal officials had reason for a praise song.

    For the first time in almost five years, they reported a U.S. Postal Service quarterly net profit. The $307 million in net income for the first quarter of fiscal year 2016, which ended Dec. 31, is a $1.1 billion turnaround from the $754 million net loss during the same period a year earlier.

    Sounds like cause for celebration. But maybe it’s a matter of don’t let the good news fool you."

    While it is a private organization, the US government supplies all of the rules, which explains all of its problems.


    The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!


  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    Great list, totally agree: all your examples are spot on imo.
    ....
  • YashaXYashaX Member EpicPosts: 3,098
    GladDog said:
    Alverant said:

    GladDog said:

    I'm just making this point because you don't want the gov't in charge of your internet, not just because of big brother looking over your shoulder, but because all governments seem to enjoy proving over and over again how inefficient they are at handling taxpayer money.


    How is that any different than what businesses do? Didn't you hear, Microsoft and Adobe want to transition to a subscription model for their products. And did you every try and cancel a contract with your ISP over the phone? There's a reason why Comcast is rated worst in customer service. I'd rather put the government in charge than a business that not only doesn't provide the speeds promised but has the habit of continuing to charge people after they canceled their service.

    Oh and let's not forget the government built the internet in the first place. Your ISP is just the last step between the main network and your house. You may also want to check out the USPS. It manages to turn a profit and doesn't use taxpayer funds. Most of the inefficiency happens when you hand things over to free enterprise private contractors.
    And lets talk about welfare.  Here is a system that is self propagating.  If you, as a welfare worker, do the job people THINK you are doing and help a lot of people get off welfare, what did you do?

    You eliminated your own job.  Because of that very factor, welfare will only continue to grow.  That is what happens when gov't takes over anything.

    Welfare is a support system that helps alleviate the suffering caused by inevitable economic inequalities that emerge in our society. There is no connection between a welfare worker doing a good job and poverty being eradicated.

    Its like claiming that healthcare is a "self propagating" system because if doctors "do the job people THINK you are doing and help a lot of people get (better) what did you do? You eliminated your own job.  Because of that very factor, (healthcare) will only continue to grow. " 


    ....
  • kjempffkjempff Member RarePosts: 1,759
    Oh you know nothing John Snow!

    5 things you should never make a list of:
    1. A 5 things list
    2. 5 must have [insert whatever]
    3. Top 10 [insert whatever]
    4. Top 500, which is even more ridiculous
    5. 10 reasons to [insert whatever]
  • GladDogGladDog Member RarePosts: 1,097
    YashaX said:

    Welfare is a support system that helps alleviate the suffering caused by inevitable economic inequalities that emerge in our society. There is no connection between a welfare worker doing a good job and poverty being eradicated.

    Its like claiming that healthcare is a "self propagating" system because if doctors "do the job people THINK you are doing and help a lot of people get (better) what did you do? You eliminated your own job.  Because of that very factor, (healthcare) will only continue to grow. " 


    Apples and Oranges.

    There are families that have been raking the welfare system for generations, and they continue to do so.  There are millions of people out there that think that they deserve every penny the government gives them, even though they are perfectly capable of working for a living.  

    Welfare was never designed to be a method of making a living; it was always meant to be a helping hand to get people through a bad situation.  But many of the the workers at many welfare sites make no effort to get people out (my mom did this work for about 20 years) looking for work.  In fact, my mom got in trouble for trying to help some people rejoin the workforce.  They were 'lifers' and complained about her 'interference'.

    There are plenty of people that go on food stamps or Medicaid for a brief time while they straighten out life issues.  That is what Welfare was designed for.  But there are plenty of others working the system...

    ------------------------

    Healthcare, on the other hand, is completely different.  Doctors try very, very hard to fix people up, and set them up never to return except for physicals.  I am quite sure on this.  A number of years ago I had cancer, which required 4 operations (Don't smoke kids!  It is not worth it).  But as soon as my doctor was sure I was going to be OK, about a year later, I never had to see him again.  And I am sure there were plenty of patients waiting for him to be available.  All of them were the same as me; take care of me doc, and I hope I never need to see you again.

    So how are these two connected?


    The world is going to the dogs, which is just how I planned it!


  • GrakulenGrakulen Staff WriterMMORPG.COM Staff LegendaryPosts: 894

    Albatroes said:

    Hype is honestly the communities fault since everyone does everything to blow up and honestly make money off it, i.e. streamers etc.



    There is an entire industry of people that are designed to hype games up and they are paid by the developers. Those YouTubers are part of the people that are paid by the developers. Don't confuse all of them with community.

    There is no way the community is entirely to blame.
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