About That Vocal "Minority" Against P2W

LacedOpium

http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/107057-wip-compiled-list-of-community-responses-against-p2w-for-daumkakao-to-send-to-pa/

LynxJSA

I don't know who Jaluvshuskies is, but they've gone above and beyond. If the company listens, the playerbase should shower Jal in gifts and thanks. There is enough good data there (polls from different places, over 2000 responses in a poll, links to news, streamers, etc) to let any dev know it's worth taking a look at. 

Quizzical

Because nothing measures the true preferences of the mostly indifferent masses like an Internet poll.  Internet polls measure passion, not breadth of support.  Remember all of those Internet polls that gave huge majorities to Ron Paul?

I don't think there's any real doubt that most of the people with really strong opinions about making item mall goods tradeable are against it.  But that's no way to measure majority opinion.

Scorchien

Doesnt matter , they will stay the course , it was always the plan ...

immodium

What do you think the total player base for BDO is?

If you are ever planning on presenting to Pearl Abyss how strongly and passionately EU & NA are against this idea

Unless the total player base of EU and NA comes to 4000/5000 players, the majority don't actually care about the changes.

Gruug

The only poll that counts is the one where the money is counted. People vote with their money.

FlyByKnight

This would have all been over with if people would just have turned the game off and walked away as soon as the news hit. That's the only metric that matters. Anybody protesting in-game is a walking contradiction.




"F#%K CHEESEBURGERS MAN! AMIRITE? WHO IS WITH ME!!!!"

Dullahan

I applaud the effort, but how could they not have known this was coming. Everyone knew what this game was p2w before it even launched.

Archlyte

Scorchien said:

Doesnt matter , they will stay the course , it was always the plan ...

Stay the Course seems to always be the result. Some games have ridden the course into the dirt and didn't turn the wheel.

holdenhamlet

immodium said:

What do you think the total player base for BDO is?

If you are ever planning on presenting to Pearl Abyss how strongly and passionately EU & NA are against this idea

Unless the total player base of EU and NA comes to 4000/5000 players, the majority don't actually care about the changes.

What?  What evidence do you have to know what the majority thinks?

The only evidence we have is what is shown in the OP, representing that a LOT of current customers do not like the proposed change.  

Nobody knows what the actual majority thinks, but indications are most do not approve of the change.  Anti-p2w remarks have far outnumbered pro-p2w remarks.

Yeah, it's the internet, it's just forums yada yada yada but it's all we have to go on.  Although many of the top guilds turning their guild icon into the one shown in my avatar is indicative that it's just not "forum hsyteria".

In any case, I just don't see how you look at all that in the OP and say, "Well, the majority doesn't care."

So basically I'm just assuming because I know that you're pro-p2w that you're just pulling that notion straight out of your butt.

***

Anywho, Kakao asked for feedback during the announcement and feedback they got.  Tomorrow will tell if/how they act upon that feedback.

SirBalin

FlyByKnight said:

This would have all been over with if people would just have turned the game off and walked away as soon as the news hit. That's the only metric that matters. Anybody protesting in-game is a walking contradiction.




"F#%K CHEESEBURGERS MAN! AMIRITE? WHO IS WITH ME!!!!"

I...really, really...want to bite that cheeseburger!

Fish_Tacos

holdenhamlet said:

Anywho, Kakao asked for feedback during the announcement and feedback they got.  Tomorrow will tell if/how they act upon that feedback.

But the part I don't understand is why you would continue to do business with them after this? Why would you trust them or give them another dime? If you enjoy the game that much, then good luck to you, but I wouldn't have anything to do with them again, personally.

EDIT: I've not played BDO, so I'm just an outside observer. 

frostymug

Fish_Tacos said:

holdenhamlet said:

Anywho, Kakao asked for feedback during the announcement and feedback they got.  Tomorrow will tell if/how they act upon that feedback.

But the part I don't understand is why you would continue to do business with them after this? Why would you trust them or give them another dime? If you enjoy the game that much, then good luck to you, but I wouldn't have anything to do with them again, personally.

EDIT: I've not played BDO, so I'm just an outside observer. 

MMO players are a group of people who talk about how horrible and faceroll easy WoW has become and how over it they are then rush out and pay full price for the next expansion so they can blast through it in less than a month.

MMO players bemoan the lack of depth in new titles and how on rails everything is then rush out and buy founders packs for games they already know they probably won't like because there isn't anything else out worth playing now.

MMO players will almost certainly continue to pay for this game so they can picket in game or do whatever they think is going to make a change.

MMO developers and producers will continue to do what they do. It is easier to count money than it is to scour the internet for opinions and make wholesale changes to your game or business and development plans.

One side wins. One side whines. Nothing changes. Such are the times we live in.

Loke666

I think that most MMO players dislike P2win, but that the people who like it spend such a large sum that publishers don't care if the majority get upset...

I also believe that it is a mistake because the few whales I know changes games oftenwhile regular gamers might spend less but stay a long period. If you want quick cash and don't care about longevity then fine but that is why so many F2P MMOs earns loads of money the first year only to dwindle income wise fast.

It is just my theory though and can be wishful thinking, but we seen a lot P2win games shine bright a couple of months only to turn into obscurity after that.

craftseeker

Loke666 said:

I think that most MMO players dislike P2win, but that the people who like it spend such a large sum that publishers don't care if the majority get upset...

I also believe that it is a mistake because the few whales I know changes games oftenwhile regular gamers might spend less but stay a long period. If you want quick cash and don't care about longevity then fine but that is why so many F2P MMOs earns loads of money the first year only to dwindle income wise fast.

It is just my theory though and can be wishful thinking, but we seen a lot P2win games shine bright a couple of months only to turn into obscurity after that.

I think the thing with P2win is that once you have paid for your win you can only strut around proclaiming your win for a short time before it becomes silly even to you.

delete5230

Developers don't care about any of this.  And if they did, they were directed to the marketing department and told "don't worry about it". 

People play everything !

Gdemami

delete5230 said:

Developers don't care about any of this.  And if they did, they were directed to the marketing department and told "don't worry about it". 

People play everything !

I hope so. I do not want to see another studio being damaged by enraged mob...

Phry

Jean-Luc_Picard said:

As I said in another thread, I've rarely seen a shitstorm of that magnitude. Maybe 1 or 2 other times in my whole MMORPG career which started 20+ years ago, and not even sure it was that bad.

And for @Fish_Tacos : they definitely won't get a single cent more from me ever, neither for this game nor for any other game they may publish.

There hasn't really been a change of this magnitude in a game for several years, its only really happened once before in a game i really cared about, and at the moment it feels like being at ground zero deja vu.
There is only really 2 possibilities, players either take it on the chin, and carry on, or they do what they did the last time, which was move on to other games.
The last time this happened it was in a much smaller game, only a couple of hundred thousand players, BDO has, if numbers are to be believed, over a million players.
The next few weeks will either prove that P2W is acceptable, or that it isn't.
As much as i would wish to believe that the poll gained through out of game methods is indicative, the truth is, until we see something actually happening in game, we cannot know for sure either way, the trouble is, that at that point, it becomes too late to do anything about it.

immodium

holdenhamlet said:

The only evidence we have is what is shown in the OP, representing that a LOT of current customers do not like the proposed change.  

And based on same evidence, unless the total player base of BDO = 5000 players a LOT more don't care for the changes.

It's a vocal majority of a small minority.

Gdemami

Phry said:
There hasn't really been a change of this magnitude in a game for several years, its only really happened once before in a game i really cared about, and at the moment it feels like being at ground zero deja vu.

Yep, CCP bent to mob and never recovered from that mistake.

Just like so many small studios that "listen to their community"...

Lleith

I can't even visit their forums anymore. Apparently something I said on even my alt account got someone upset.

Gdemami

Lleith said:

I can't even visit their forums anymore. Apparently something I said on even my alt account got someone upset.

Who would have thought so...

Eraedal

FlyByKnight said:

This would have all been over with if people would just have turned the game off and walked away as soon as the news hit. That's the only metric that matters. Anybody protesting in-game is a walking contradiction.

that's exactly what i did. walk away...

Kyleran

Eraedal said:

FlyByKnight said:

This would have all been over with if people would just have turned the game off and walked away as soon as the news hit. That's the only metric that matters. Anybody protesting in-game is a walking contradiction.

that's exactly what i did. walk away...

Those who walk away are doing the only sort of protesting that might convince the suits to change their mind.

Azaron_Nightblade

holdenhamlet said:

immodium said:

What do you think the total player base for BDO is?

If you are ever planning on presenting to Pearl Abyss how strongly and passionately EU & NA are against this idea

Unless the total player base of EU and NA comes to 4000/5000 players, the majority don't actually care about the changes.

What?  What evidence do you have to know what the majority thinks?

The only evidence we have is what is shown in the OP, representing that a LOT of current customers do not like the proposed change.  

Nobody knows what the actual majority thinks, but indications are most do not approve of the change.  Anti-p2w remarks have far outnumbered pro-p2w remarks.

Yeah, it's the internet, it's just forums yada yada yada but it's all we have to go on.  Although many of the top guilds turning their guild icon into the one shown in my avatar is indicative that it's just not "forum hsyteria".

In any case, I just don't see how you look at all that in the OP and say, "Well, the majority doesn't care."

So basically I'm just assuming because I know that you're pro-p2w that you're just pulling that notion straight out of your butt.

***

Anywho, Kakao asked for feedback during the announcement and feedback they got.  Tomorrow will tell if/how they act upon that feedback.

Tbh, only the devs know. I still remember all the campaigns and outrage over Mass Effect 3's ending, and Jessica Merizan claiming that the majority of ME3 players were fine with it, even though thousands were angry about it. After all the polls showed it. People were making countless Youtube videos about it... website articles. You name it. The whole shebang.

I figured she must be lying. PR bullshit and everything, since she never gave any numbers... until you come to hear that out of all the people that bought the game, only a good 30% actually GOT to that ending. That's 70% right there that doesn't give a fuck about it. And if half of that 30% that actually did finish it, liked it or didn't care, that's another 15% right there, making it a grand total of 85% at least that didn't care or actually approved of the ending.

If you think the vast majority of BDO's playerbase actually cares enough to go take part on some internet poll, or to post on the forums... well... this is the internet, I'm not going to change your mind, we both know that much. Keep on thinking it, but brace for disappointment. Not to mention in this case, I'm fairly sure this update is being pushed by PA, who won't even bother to look at all the internet rage. The only thing they'll get are reports from Daum.

Quizzical

Perhaps the reason why we don't know what a majority of the players think about this change is that a majority of the players don't think about this change.  Forums, internet polls, and so forth mostly attract people who think about games far more than most.