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I really wish more people understand whats going on.

delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081

Very few players here understand the problem,


If the game is easy, every quest is boring.  It's like this:

Your standing on a hill looking down on an encampment full of bad guys.  The objective is to kill the leader and loot his head......Basic quest right ?

a) easy- You run down hack-and-slash the entire camp kill the leader and on to the next quest.

b) hard- each and every bad guy is difficult, you know this.  You sit there for a few minuets and plan out how to take on each one separately.  Or you wait for some help.....Strategy !


The bottom line is every mmo is crap.

What I don't understand is how everyone is scratching their heads trying to figure out why mmos are dying :( 


Here's proof,

If any of you had played any Darksouls games you would know every fight is hard and challenging. If everything were easy the game would be a shell of nothing, absolutely nothing.....Come on !....get with the program and start realizing where the problems are !


At least every other day, someone ask for a good mmo because they can find one on a list of over 200....This is me, and this is you too !

The answer is always the standard " play ESO, BDO or FF14 "

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Comments

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    There is no problem.
    You are just creating one thread like this after the other.

    You are like one of those insane preachers in parks who try to convince the audience that their insane view on the world is the only right one.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • cheyanecheyane Member LegendaryPosts: 9,049
    My goodness you're getting to be as annoying as that other guy who constantly creates threads about not spending money on games.
    Chamber of Chains
  • d_20d_20 Member RarePosts: 1,878
    edited July 2016
    Your point is understandable, OP.

    I think there is a problem these days because of how games can make money.

    Sadly, more and more threads deal with "business model" to the exclusion of discussion about the actual game world, mechanics, lore, etc. This involves the perception of added grind or difficulty which can be overcome or ameliorated through cash shop purchases. There is suspicion on the part of gamers (now consumers) against everything developers do.

    Is this difficult and challenging because the game is designed that way? Or is it because there is something in the cash shop that can help me get through this more conveniently?

    If there is nothing in the cash shop to ease the difficulty then people who make games might be afraid to alienate the large numbers of players (paying customers) they need to keep their business going.

    I don't have any answers, but I think that any discussion of your original topic needs to consider the business realities, the target audience, the budget of the game to produce, the goals of the developer, etc.

    OP -- What is your standard for difficult and challenging enough? It might be helpful to know that. And how could such a game be successful? What kind of business model would work for this game?


  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    cheyane said:
    My goodness you're getting to be as annoying as that other guy who constantly creates threads about not spending money on games.


    Post after post...People can't find even one game.

    Post after post...People are not finding any challenge

    Post after post...People are saying mmos are dying

    Post after post...People are slamming every mmo that comes out in the sub forums

    Post after post...more are mad about cash shops than not

    Post after post...People say quest suck


    Yet, the same vocal 10 people are saying everything is fine

    Polls are constantly made about games are dying, cash shops, theme park vs. open world....Its always CLEAR in every one that players are not happy usually 60% or more !!!.....But the reply's come from the same 10 people, the majority are spectators and they completely disagree !

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer Member EpicPosts: 8,855
    cheyane said:
    My goodness you're getting to be as annoying as that other guy who constantly creates threads about not spending money on games.


    Post after post...People can't find even one game.

    Post after post...People are not finding any challenge

    Post after post...People are saying mmos are dying

    Post after post...People are slamming every mmo that comes out in the sub forums

    Post after post...more are mad about cash shops than not

    Post after post...People say quest suck


    Yet, the same vocal 10 people are saying everything is fine

    Polls are constantly made about games are dying, cash shops, theme park vs. open world....Its always CLEAR in every one that players are not happy usually 60% or more !!!.....But the reply's come from the same 10 people, the majority are spectators and they completely disagree !

    So keep posting the same opinions, maybe they'll find one.
  • DullahanDullahan Member EpicPosts: 4,536
    Jumping from one mmo to the next is the new norm. Doesn't matter that they're based on persistent worlds originally designed to be played for longer periods of time.

    People have come to accept this and like most things in life, once they have done so, they will vehemently defend their choice, even if its bad. Hence all the apologists telling you "everything is fine."



  • AAAMEOWAAAMEOW Member RarePosts: 1,600
    I'm not playing any mmorpg myself, and wish something amazing come out.

    But complaning about it isn't changing anything.
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    AAAMEOW said:
    I'm not playing any mmorpg myself, and wish something amazing come out.

    But complaning about it isn't changing anything.


    Yes, nothing amazing,

    Your right, complaining doesn't change anything.  I guess I'm irritated about the same vocal 10 people that say things are fine, and will fight to the death saying it is !

    Polls show one thing, responses from the same 10 reflect something else.

    I could name all 10, but that wouldn't be nice would it ?

  • freakkyfreakky Member UncommonPosts: 113
    Why do you care about those 10 people so much? Can they not have opinions? Go play project 1999 if you want hard.
    Good lucks and have fun. 
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802

    Yet, the same vocal 10 people are saying everything is fine

    At least we are 10 - you are all alone.

    Not even the Pantheon supporters want anything to do with you.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • delete5230delete5230 Member EpicPosts: 7,081
    edited July 2016
    DMKano said:
    OP - as you know Pantheon will have camps where you will need to carfully pull and CC and have a tank and a healer and puller and basically do it how it was done in EQ1 vanilla - strategically. 

    So all you have to do is wait til its available to play.

    At least there is one game in the works that will hAve this style of classic EQ1 gameplay.

    It could be worse - as in no such game in the works anymore. 

    Again *all devs understand precisely what's going on* - every dev studio could make an eq1 classic MMORPG if they wanted to, the formula is VERY well known and understood - the issue is only a small minority of players are interested in a slow combat , group centric mmorpg like vanilla eq1.

    Game studios that have 100's of devs need to make games that have a much larger audience to be able to keep them all employed.

    I am just happy that Pantheon is in the works - eq1 vanilla is my favorite PvE mmorpg of all time, and I still play P99


    Good post DMKano,

    I agree with a lot of this. 

    As always we all have opinions and it's no secret both you and I are divided in our beliefs.  I have to say I respect your side too.  But based on polls conducted here.  Many really don't like what's been happening in the last few years, I would even say the majority.  So It's only my guess that the heavy posters ( the 10 ) here don't reflect what the real majority wants.

    A game like Pantheon and its popularity as it comes closer to release will surprise many.  

    Were just divided in our beliefs, and were both sticking to it :) 

  • scorpex-xscorpex-x Member RarePosts: 1,030
    edited July 2016
    The problem isn't the difficulty or even quality of the titles being created, all these arguments are irrelevant.

    The problem is that the majority of people who play games do not want to "no life" in an mmorpg at all, they managed to bring in the non-mmorpg crowd by making the games far easier to make progress in but even then they still bail within 3-4 months anyway.  There is simply no way to make this genre of games mainstream and get people to play them for many years by enough people.

    Also it doesn't help that the market is flooded, they can't make more because the intended audience are almost all playing titles already and are incredibly tribal and attack any new titles.  The only people who want more new games are the people who bail on new titles in a few months anyway and are pretty much not worth making titles for.

    The only reason anyone ever thought the mmorpg genre was a goer was because wow blew up (before wow the mmorpg genre was filled with low budget titles, that's all it was), that lead to all these titles we have running now being created with massive budgets because publishers all thought they could replicate wow.  None of them could, they all failed to come even close to what wow managed to do. 

    Once the companies saw that they could not replicate wow or even come close to it they all simply changed direction for their new productions into other genres.  The mmorpg genre is a niche that isn't profitable with the expectations and lack of loyalty of it's audience.

    We are lucky in that due to wow we have a sea of titles all running, go play one of them.  They are all still being updated, they all have talented developers making content for them.  If that's not good enough for you, well maybe this genre isnt' for you.

    To keep making posts like this is silly, there simply will not be any new AAA mmorpg titles made from here on out.  That's why we have to cherish all the titles we have now and not hate on the ones we don't like.  Even if some company made a new low budget mmorpg and it blew up with millions upon millions of players it would still not usher in another golden age of mmorpgs because they have already proven that it's almost impossible to replicate success off the back of another mmorpg.

    Go play ESO, Tera, SWTOR, GW2, FFXI, FFXIV or WOW and stop complaining.  It is what it is, the mmorpg genre had it's moment in the sun and it's over.
  • OscillateOscillate Member UncommonPosts: 239
    edited July 2016
    Dakeru said:
    There is no problem.
    You are just creating one thread like this after the other.

    You are like one of those insane preachers in parks who try to convince the audience that their insane view on the world is the only right one.
    Not really.  Stats show the drop off of interest in MMOs now.  Most game companies aren't investing in new games/IPs.  If you were old enough to remember 1999-2006 era of MMO's, you would notice the difference.  In that 7-8 year time frame, games were coming out a lot more frequently and defiantly more substance, than what we see today.  

    The real issue lies in the equation "backers" are using with any genre of games nowadays.  Time invested, effort and profit margin gained.  No one is willing to invest the effort and money needed, to back a game that might have some potential.  So many developers have left this genre almost entirely.  

    A lot of these factors go into stale state of affairs we have in the MMO scene now.  In an era of self-serving greed, no one is willing to take on a "labor of love" like we seen with earlier generations of MMO's.  This is not an opinion, this is fact.  Bring up this subject with an old dev, who really in their hearts, love making mmorpgs.  Or at least use to, they will share these same opinions.  I know, because I have.

    image
    (Akiraosc)

  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    Oscillate said:
     If you were old enough to remember 1999-2006 era of MMO's, you would notice the difference.  
    I'm even old enough to know that there are easily 100 times as many MMO players as there were in 2000.

    You guys are just pissed with the way things developed so now you are trying to force down your opinions and receptions down other peoples' throats.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • OscillateOscillate Member UncommonPosts: 239
    edited July 2016
    Dakeru said:
    Oscillate said:
     If you were old enough to remember 1999-2006 era of MMO's, you would notice the difference.  
    I'm even old enough to know that there are easily 100 times as many MMO players as there were in 2000.

    You guys are just pissed with the way things developed so now you are trying to force down your opinions and receptions down other peoples' throats.
    Of course they are more players now.  Computers have became much more accessible and a part of people's lives, thus more players.  My points that I made, can be easily backed up by 5 minutes and a simple google search.  So I do not see were I am forcing any opinion down anyone's throat.

    MMO's, hell, any genre now, aren't being made as games the devs would actually have fun playing.  It is solely with profit in mind.  Look at what is being done with early access, if you can honestly say there is no greed, or fault in that, you're jaded as one can be.

    For someone that has such an issue with others opinions, you really do little to backup your own.

    Edit: Also you took what I said out of context.  I never said more played in that era, I referenced the volume of games being released in this genre; and the level of substance of those games.

    Basing your argument on the claim that more play now, than in 2000, is like saying music is 100% factually better now, because more people are listening to it.

    Technology advances---> more have access---> more are involved in it.  
    Post edited by Oscillate on

    image
    (Akiraosc)

  • MardukkMardukk Member RarePosts: 2,222
    edited July 2016
    Unfortunately OP is correct.  I admit it is a snoozefest when I wade into 10 enemies in BDO and just aoe everything down.  I too wish open world difficulty was more like EQ.  You actually had to plan out your pull and the tactics to defeat the mob.  Facerolling 10 mobs at a time isn't fun.  

    The sad thing is I find myself trying to find a game in which I can get some challenge (create my own tactics) through soloing dungeons.  I had a bit of fun in ESO, the only fun I had in that game, attempting to solo dungeons.  Unfortunately the loot tables don't appear to be improved for dungeon trash even though it is 10x harder than anything in the open world. 

    The MMO lite Kings and Heroes, is a pretty challenging solo dungeon crawler if you set it on hard or above and the rewards do scale even on trash, but it is very light on tactics.
    Post edited by Mardukk on
  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Member EpicPosts: 6,601
    edited July 2016
    I wish more people would understand what is  going on too however I have a feeling we  are talking about different people and opposite issues. 
    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
  • H0urg1assH0urg1ass Member EpicPosts: 2,380
    Dullahan said:
    Jumping from one mmo to the next is the new norm. Doesn't matter that they're based on persistent worlds originally designed to be played for longer periods of time.

    People have come to accept this and like most things in life, once they have done so, they will vehemently defend their choice, even if its bad. Hence all the apologists telling you "everything is fine."


    While I don't necessarily agree with the sweeping generalizations made by the OP, everything is not fine.  If it were, then players wouldn't be hopping games every time a new hype train arrives at the station.  If it were, then the AAA developers wouldn't have noped the fuck out of the genre nearly two years ago.

    We see this cycle where a new game is announced and there's mega hype, then it releases and everyone flocks to it, then three months later everyone bails and it goes free to play, then six months to a year later everyone talks about how "Oh, I like GW2, but I'm not going back until they fix this thing I don't like'".  At some point it ends up on steam begging for a revival, but steam only generates less than 1500 concurrent players at peak hours like Wildstar.

    One thing that I would love to see in an MMORPG is having powerful enemies to fight.  Rather than thousands of trash mobs standing around with 23 gallons of high pressure blood waiting to be sprayed all over the landscape at the prick of a sewing needle, lets have single enemies, but make them tough.  The landscape is mostly herbivores and skittish animals like Deer and Rabbits, but when you come across a brown bear while exploring a cave, then watch the fuck out, cause they're dangerous.  I dunno, I think that would be more fun personally.
  • DakeruDakeru Member EpicPosts: 3,802
    Oscillate said:

    Technology advances---> more have access---> more are involved in it.  
    Not only that but you also get more options.
    Back then people would run around with the same kind of Walkman everywhere.
    Now you have various good companies so you can freely chose what you prefer.


    I am gamer and I like to try out different games and I am having fun doing so.

    The idea that I have to stick with 1 game and dedicate all my free time into it is nothing else but fanatism.
    Harbinger of Fools
  • Flyte27Flyte27 Member RarePosts: 4,574
    Things were like this in early MMOs.  All mobs in EQ were artificially difficult enough that you had to think a bit.  In World of Warcraft we saw the majority of mobs in the outside world lowered in artificial difficulty by large amounts.  There were still certain mobs that were elite in the outside world meant for groups, but you could take them down solo with the right class, strategy, and combination of abilities/talents.  Now WoW has all easy mobs in the outside world.
  • End DreamEnd Dream Member CommonPosts: 7
    If you want a challenge and game that's more old school try Project Gorgon. I finally found a home after dealing with the same frustrations of may in this thread.
  • MareliusMarelius Member UncommonPosts: 130
    All comes down to one thing, when players start ignoring the easy stuff they are feeding us, that is when the industry will change. Until then not much we can do and not like we have to be reminded of it every couple of days. 

    But I agree OP!
    Sometimes it's not always about what you can see or hear but what's under the hood of a game that's most impressive. Between those thousands and thousands of lines of code, magic happens. Sometimes the most amazing feats of gaming wizardry happen without you even noticing.

    Rob Manuel

  • pantheronpantheron Member UncommonPosts: 256
    I know exactly whats going on. Tons of games are coming out, And I want to play them all, but alas, I cannot. 

    I play MMOs for the Forum PVP

  • Mouloxtos85Mouloxtos85 Member UncommonPosts: 66

    Very few players here understand the problem,


    If the game is easy, every quest is boring.  It's like this:

    Your standing on a hill looking down on an encampment full of bad guys.  The objective is to kill the leader and loot his head......Basic quest right ?

    a) easy- You run down hack-and-slash the entire camp kill the leader and on to the next quest.

    b) hard- each and every bad guy is difficult, you know this.  You sit there for a few minuets and plan out how to take on each one separately.  Or you wait for some help.....Strategy !


    The bottom line is every mmo is crap.

    What I don't understand is how everyone is scratching their heads trying to figure out why mmos are dying :( 


    Here's proof,

    If any of you had played any Darksouls games you would know every fight is hard and challenging. If everything were easy the game would be a shell of nothing, absolutely nothing.....Come on !....get with the program and start realizing where the problems are !


    At least every other day, someone ask for a good mmo because they can find one on a list of over 200....This is me, and this is you too !

    The answer is always the standard " play ESO, BDO or FF14 "


    Seems like you have completely burnt out on gaming and nothing satisfies you. Take a break (long/short) and come back into gaming after a while. You will find satisfaction on games that previously didn't even make a difference on you.
  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Must admit, i don't see what the problem is, the first MMO i got heavily involved with was EQ1, and i played it for a few years, made some good friends there, eventually the guild i was in moved on to WoW pretty much en masse, and so began that era of gaming, and over the years i have seen games get better, and better, sure there have been quite a few lemons too, but honestly, i am having the time of my life playing MMO's, and my only real issue is that i don't have as much time to play them as i would like, which is a problem at the moment because virtually all my 'gaming time' is spent playing BDO, its a game that is totally unlike Everquest, but it has the same kind of addictiveness that coined the phrase 'evercrack'  that i felt when i played Everquest all those years ago, and its not like there aren't a bunch of other games that i have fun playing, and they're being neglected because of 'bdocaine'. :p
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