I wouldn't call them e-sports. I'd call them competitions instead. When people refer to sports, it's usually physically-based, such as baseball or hockey. Competitions or Tournaments involve less physical activities, such as Poker or Chess. I think calling them e-sports does the whole scene a disservice. It will always be mocked as long as people keep trying to equate them with physically-based sports.
your character is the one engaged in physical activity, hence the 'e'.
"Electronic" doesn't sound any better. It's too broad of a word. "Virtual" would've been better, but even then, these virtual games are not even "sports", in the general sense of the term. They are mostly shooters, sci-fi, and fantasy themed. Anyway, it's all semantics, but these "e-sports" will never be taken seriously by the mass market.
Indeed...
That's not impressive when compared to the Super Bowl, the World Series, or World Cup. It's still niche. I don't see major networks or websites promoting e-sports over these other sports. The advertising and promotion just doesn't compare in terms of mass appeal.
Spoken with true ignorance. There have consistently been more concurrent viewers of e-Sports finals since 2013 than the vast majority of professional sports, saving only the Super Bowl. In 2014 there were 75 million viewers of the LoL finals, which was double that of the NBA finals.
If you're going to use data, make sure to use it fairly. Where are you getting that 75 million figure from? You conveniently left out that in 2015, it was over a 5 week period, not concurrent. It was 14 million concurrent viewers in 2014.
The Super Bowl alone had 114 million. The World Series had 14.7 million. The World Cup had around 1 billion.
@CrazKanuk As others mentioned, I specifically cited a Center position, for a good reason.
Let's approach this from a different angle. How many players in the NFL/NBA/MLB walk into the league straight out of high school? There are handfuls that exist and do achieve this, but name me one that wasn't 1) A physical prodigy/genetic masterpiece and 2) Also unbelievably gifted at their craft, be it a blessing or constant hard work.
On the contrary, how many "pro" e-sports gamers are self-developed talent? All of them. E-sports basically became a thing by the players themselves. While the pro teams have coaches, most players are self-taught and learn from simply observing and re-executing what they witness. That, alone, disproves the argument that sports and e-sports have similar limitations. There are "rails" so to speak, that pro athletes have to follow to become pro athletes. Years of physical conditioning. Maintaining their grades. Developing relationships with other players, schools, coaches, and organizations themselves. If they're good enough in high school, they make the varsity team. From that crop, if they're good enough at the end of high school, they go to college. After 4 years of college, the best of the best that were able to maintain the standards set forth by the high school, their college, and their professional organization of choice move on to the professional leagues. All of this, mind you, is limited by even more additional factors; playing time, relationships with teammates and coaching staff, weather, etc.
Pro gamers have numerous avenues. Players can simply play more games. They aren't limited to a pre-set limit on their number of games in a season. They can switch teams regularly to get more favorable advantages. They can rise to fame through mechanical skill, or through streaming. In a sense, there are numerous avenues to become a "successful" pro gamer; there are far stricter, far more controlled methods of becoming a pro athlete, unless you are truly a prodigy from the heavens (Stephen Strassburg, anyone?!?) who defies all logic. There are *FAR* less limiting factors that a pro gamer has in their way than a pro athlete does, and that's why I personally (and many others, i believe) consider it an impractical comparison when it is brought up.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I somewhat agree with you. Playing games endlessly causes major health problems. At 34 I had carpal tunnel release surgery for my wrist, I also gained 100 lbs over the years of playing WOW 20+ hours a week. Now you can say well I am an IT guy and also was on the computer for work and for my classes online. Thats true however the stress of trying to compete at a high end put more stress on my body than playing floor and roller hockey nearly 10 times a week. The problem with Esports is you have to do repetitive actions over and over for hundreds of hours and it will lead to worse health problems than I have/had.
Yeah, I'm just gonna go ahead and call bullshit on that one. You got fat because you were sitting around all day and taking in more calories than you could burn. Period.
Also, this may come as a shock to you, but carpal tunnel can affect anyone who has a job or hobby that involves repetitive wrist movements. Grocery store cashiers, factory workers, etc., and I dare say many of them have it far tougher than some spoiled 'e-sports' player who sits in a comfy chair playing video games all day.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
If you're going to use data, make sure to use it fairly. Where are you getting that 75 million figure from? You conveniently left out that in 2015, it was over a 5 week period, not concurrent. It was 14 million concurrent viewers in 2014.
The Super Bowl alone had 114 million. The World Series had 14.7 million. The World Cup had around 1 billion.
the reference I heard was 'more than the 7th game of the world series'
never the less it doesnt even matter, anything that is coming even CLOSE to Sports numbers in viewership is an important trend
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
@CrazKanuk As others mentioned, I specifically cited a Center position, for a good reason.
Let's approach this from a different angle. How many players in the NFL/NBA/MLB walk into the league straight out of high school? There are handfuls that exist and do achieve this, but name me one that wasn't 1) A physical prodigy/genetic masterpiece and 2) Also unbelievably gifted at their craft, be it a blessing or constant hard work.
On the contrary, how many "pro" e-sports gamers are self-developed talent? All of them. E-sports basically became a thing by the players themselves. While the pro teams have coaches, most players are self-taught and learn from simply observing and re-executing what they witness. That, alone, disproves the argument that sports and e-sports have similar limitations. There are "rails" so to speak, that pro athletes have to follow to become pro athletes. Years of physical conditioning. Maintaining their grades. Developing relationships with other players, schools, coaches, and organizations themselves. If they're good enough in high school, they make the varsity team. From that crop, if they're good enough at the end of high school, they go to college. After 4 years of college, the best of the best that were able to maintain the standards set forth by the high school, their college, and their professional organization of choice move on to the professional leagues. All of this, mind you, is limited by even more additional factors; playing time, relationships with teammates and coaching staff, weather, etc.
Pro gamers have numerous avenues. Players can simply play more games. They aren't limited to a pre-set limit on their number of games in a season. They can switch teams regularly to get more favorable advantages. They can rise to fame through mechanical skill, or through streaming. In a sense, there are numerous avenues to become a "successful" pro gamer; there are far stricter, far more controlled methods of becoming a pro athlete, unless you are truly a prodigy from the heavens (Stephen Strassburg, anyone?!?) who defies all logic. There are *FAR* less limiting factors that a pro gamer has in their way than a pro athlete does, and that's why I personally (and many others, i believe) consider it an impractical comparison when it is brought up.
Yes, I would agree that there are fewer barriers to entry into e-sports as there would be with pro sports. With e-Sports everyone plays at the same level, by the same rules, against everyone else. So those barriers are removed, I agree.
The main reason that I would challenge your believe that it's an impractical comparison is that, why are the SAME people consistently winning? If e-sports was a level playing field, then everyone would have a fair shake, right? As it stands, there are a few teams who consistently dominate, which would indicate that there is more to it than learned skills. Actually, there's scientific studies which conclude what I said earlier. e-Sports athletes display greater cognitive abilities than amateur or casual players. So while you're more than welcome to an opinion, until you disprove what's already been scientifically proven, you're wrong. That is unless you're a neurobiologist who has been conducting studies on these e-sports athletes for the past 5 years.
Hey guys, the LCS had almost as many viewers a the Super Bowl but E-sports is dead/dying/not gonna happen. troll harder next time.
Personally, I don't much care about anything related to this subject.
However, your information is misleading. People may have come in here and seen your post and then told their friends and family the information that they gathered from you. So, instead of one person being misinformed we now have several, and that continues to compound. I feel obligated to prevent this from spreading to the millions of impressionable young voters...
The Superbowl had over 111 million T.V. viewers. This does not include any other means of views such as internet, sports bars or asses in bleachers. It generated over $19b... billion... with a (b)... in consumer related purchases during that weekend alone.
Riot released numbers claiming they had a cumulative 334 million unique viewers throughout the entire 4 week span, which is a respectable number considering that's almost 12 million a day. They had 38 million views for the final, which was roughly 14 million concurrent viewers.
The problem is, Riot reports their own numbers. If someone is streaming on multiple devices or change streaming platforms those are probably counted as unique views. I have no idea how they get their information, but I can't find any other source other than Riot. Every article out there only reports on what Riot gave them, but I think it's safe to say that they are in no way close to painting a clear picture of real viewers.
So the bottom line is that at peak the LCS had 14 million people viewing on all platforms combined and the Superbowl had 111 million people tuned in via T.V.
If I had said concurrent viewers then yes it would be misinformation. Oh yeah, I intentionally didn't say that. So did they have more viewers than the Super Bowl for the LCS? Yes they did. There were 334 million unique views. Concurrent views in the days of DVR's, Youtube, Netflix, Hulu, Twitch, etc. are an antiquated metric.
27 million is a lot regardless of if its as much as real sports or not.
The REAL misleading part here is the assumption that unless the numbers are as much or more than real sports then the entire esports thing is insignificant. That is a gross misrepresentation of what is happening
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
If I had said concurrent viewers then yes it would be misinformation. Oh yeah, I intentionally didn't say that. So did they have more viewers than the Super Bowl for the LCS? Yes they did.
It's clear to me what you were implying, it's misleading none the less.
So if you didn't mean to suggest what you meant to suggest, WTF is your point? Cat litter commercials get more views over a 4 week span than the Superbowl ...
Do you understand that when they say unique daily views it means one unique device/platform is counted every day. It does NOT mean 334 different people or unique devices/platforms.
No. You decided to add extra information and words to my statement in your interpretation of it. I'm perfectly aware of the statement I made originally and in response to you. I suggest you go back and read it again and not add anything extra yourself this time. If you fail to grasp the point of my post, that's fine, feel free to PM me, but that's not the topic of this thread. I'm sorry you find those numbers underwhelming but I'd imagine you're in the minority.
I'm sure some of those GoT and Super Bowl viewers were double counted as well. Better hurry up and cancel those train wrecks.....
If I had said concurrent viewers then yes it would be misinformation. Oh yeah, I intentionally didn't say that. So did they have more viewers than the Super Bowl for the LCS? Yes they did.
It's clear to me what you were implying, it's misleading none the less.
So if you didn't mean to suggest what you meant to suggest, WTF is your point? Cat litter commercials get more views over a 4 week span than the Superbowl ...
Do you understand that when they say unique daily views it means one unique device/platform is counted every day. It does NOT mean 334 different people or unique devices/platforms.
No. You decided to add extra information and words to my statement in your interpretation of it. I'm perfectly aware of the statement I made originally and in response to you. I suggest you go back and read it again and not add anything extra yourself this time. If you fail to grasp the point of my post, that's fine, feel free to PM me, but that's not the topic of this thread. I'm sorry you find those numbers underwhelming but I'd imagine you're in the minority.
I'm sure some of those GoT and Super Bowl viewers were double counted as well. Better hurry up and cancel those train wrecks.....
Throw him a bone..... Sure, the Super Bowl will live on! All other sports? Well, obviously dead and dying. World Series averaged around 15 million viewers per game. NHL, 2.5 per game in the Stanley Cup Finals, NBA saw most viewers since 2010 in game 7 with 31 million.
Throw him a bone..... Sure, the Super Bowl will live on! All other sports? Well, obviously dead and dying. World Series averaged around 15 million viewers per game. NHL, 2.5 per game in the Stanley Cup Finals, NBA saw most viewers since 2010 in game 7 with 31 million.
I don't care about any of this. I don't care about the Superbowl, I don't watch sports. I don't care about any dead or dying game or how it relates to anything on this topic. If I had an unlimited amount of damns I still wouldn't give a damn about eSports. I'm not defending anything. I'm only preventing people from walking away from this forum thinking that League of Legends has close to the same amount of viewers as the Superbowl.
If you take that information and form an opinion of "esports is not the future of gaming because one event cant draw as many people as the super bowl?" Then yes, there are problems, but they're not mine.
but its more than teh average world series, almost as much as the best season of NBA and more than the Game of Thrones.
The point is its a very significant number, THAT is what is important take away here having people running aorund saying its more than the superbowl is a fact check that doesnt change the meaning of the example one bit and that kind of fact checking is called 'being anal'
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
It's kind of hard to get carpal tunnel as a professional e-sport player in the top 100s in korea and china, as you get regular hand massages, strain and pain relieving cream in long-term, and cold pain-relief spray for short therm.
They also have mandatory exercise, and almost none of them are not overweight, ...
First, medical issues and gaming. Yes, there are some issues in gaming related more with how you physically play the game. Playing with a mouse and keyboard improperly can have effects over the long term in your wrists, arms, neck and back. These have been documented elsewhere and I am not going to quote them here. If you wish more info...look them up. The talk about "stress", "heart problems", and "blood pressure" issues I have never seen ANY documentation suggesting this to be the case. From a personal standpoint, playing FPS or RTS games (or any other game for that matter) has always been a calming form of entertainment. If you are stressing overly much in playing any game, you probably are doing something wrong.
In regards to the "e-sports" debate, I really think it is more a fad then a real long lasting trend. Gaming and games change so quickly over a short period of time. To me that does not leave much time for a game to become popular and remain their a a "sporting" entertainment venue. Further, I know I am not alone when I say that most people would rather play the game being touted as the e-sport then to watch someone else competing. Not all of course but I just do not see many of my friends talking about the latest GS:GO e-sport event. They talk about the newest or upcoming game or the one they are playing most and e-sports never comes up. That's my two cents.
First, medical issues and gaming. Yes, there are some issues in gaming related more with how you physically play the game. Playing with a mouse and keyboard improperly can have effects over the long term in your wrists, arms, neck and back. These have been documented elsewhere and I am not going to quote them here. If you wish more info...look them up. The talk about "stress", "heart problems", and "blood pressure" issues I have never seen ANY documentation suggesting this to be the case. From a personal standpoint, playing FPS or RTS games (or any other game for that matter) has always been a calming form of entertainment. If you are stressing overly much in playing any game, you probably are doing something wrong.
In regards to the "e-sports" debate, I really think it is more a fad then a real long lasting trend. Gaming and games change so quickly over a short period of time. To me that does not leave much time for a game to become popular and remain their a a "sporting" entertainment venue. Further, I know I am not alone when I say that most people would rather play the game being touted as the e-sport then to watch someone else competing. Not all of course but I just do not see many of my friends talking about the latest GS:GO e-sport event. They talk about the newest or upcoming game or the one they are playing most and e-sports never comes up. That's my two cents.
I dont think its a fad AND i dont think the logic of 'rather be playing then watching' because that doesnt explain the 100 years or so of spectator sports so its not a forumla that is interchangeable and as a result a reason has to be given as to why such a rule would be specific in video gaming but not sports
oh and when it comes to trends, I dont have a high failure rate on my predictions
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
People watch sports for the same reason people watch e-sports; they can't play them. That is obviously not the only reason, but I'd certainly expect that to be the reason over 50% of the time. Why do 100,000,000 watch the super bowl? Half probably miss playing the sport, and it's as close as you can get to participating in it short of coaching. There's that percentage of the population that wants to see the "best vs. the best".
I think the reason MOBAs popularized e-sports so much is because they require an insane amount of game knowledge to be good. Without watching pro players, it would take thousands of games on your own time to figure anything out. However, streaming LCS allows a person who can play, say, 10 games of League a week to effectively "learn" the game by observation. Maybe it's your favorite champion in an unfavorable matchup, and you want to see how the pro player mitigates the misery of a bad lane. This is something even professional athletes do in the form of the film room; some things you can pick up on solely by observation.
I strongly believe that MOBAs will start seeing a decline in viewship, mainly because I think people are sort of just getting "over" the genre. Oversaturation + time exposure, similar to many people experiencing burnout with MMORPGs, will lead FPS to become more popular, especially in the form of Overwatch and CS:Go
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
I think the problem many posters here at MMORPG have is a bitwise way of thinking
One size must fit all, its either 'the future of gaming' or its 'not the future of gaming' its never 'its big but other things are bigger and oh by the way there is no majority in the world of gaming.
How about "I don't like esport therefore somehow it isn't the future".
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I would LOVE to see this statement actually backed up by evidence. Where are the medical records and articles that says Stressful video gaming causes all these problems? You and everyone else should know its NEVER one thing. Its ALWAYS a combination of factors. It can be highly likely its due the younger generation of gamer's and these game teams not putting enough focus of general health and well being. Making sure these players exercise and have a balanced meal plan. Maybe the fact that almost every single team is popping Vyvanse or Adderall ontop of Energy drinks, with out paying attention to their health is the problem.
But of course no its the video games right? Its the stress right? Not to sound like a jerk but your statement is lacking a TON of research. Did you know stress is not always bad? Its highly dependent on how the person deals with it, and how a person reacts physiologically to stress. I mean this is Psych 101 stuff right here.
I also don't know where you get this idea that you have played some of these games at the highest level. Unless you have played in LAN tournaments and gotten top 10 sorry to burst your bubble, your not even close. You are completely missing the added pressure of playing on a big monitor in front of thousands of players. If you haven't gotten close to that level, you haven't competed at the highest level.
You could be Global Elite in CS:GO and if you don't have a regular team you run with your still not even close to being on the level as CS:GO pros. Not to mention Competitive runs at 64 server/client tick rate which for CS:GO is regarded as trash.
So please show me this evidence to such claims. Because E-sports are growing, and there is a crap ton of money behind it. Unless they somehow stop making money, but that is not happening. Check out EVO 2016. For a single game there are 4000 sign-ups. And Signing up isn't free. Also Traveling and booking a hotel in Vega in a prime weekend with an event like EVO isn't free either. Hotels close by the event hike up their prices because they know they can and people and sponsors will pay. This is for one of the smallest competitive video game genre's out there too. Fighting Games.
While I agree with many of the things you said, any state that keeps you in a stressful state of mind for prolonged periods of time is detrimental to your health. As I disable veteran I can tell you first hand staying stressed out for long periods of time will destroy your body. But since you want research here is what the American Psychological Association says about stress:
Not all stress is bad but the type of mental fatigue from playing prolonged gaming is actually a bad form of stress. For the mental portion you can begin to see example of what I as combat fatigue for people that play PVP based games for extended periods. I am not talking about a match here or there. I am talking about the people that play hours an hours at a time.
People watch sports for the same reason people watch e-sports; they can't play them. T....
that is not accurate actually. In fact I watched a documentry that touched on the whole 'watching others do things' and its a natural part of life. It has nothing to do with not being able to do it. Its also why we watch movies
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I think the problem many posters here at MMORPG have is a bitwise way of thinking
One size must fit all, its either 'the future of gaming' or its 'not the future of gaming' its never 'its big but other things are bigger and oh by the way there is no majority in the world of gaming.
How about "I don't like esport therefore somehow it isn't the future".
not exactly
'its the future' implies that it will replace other aspects of gaming and that is not a requirement for something to be successful. It happens a LOT around these forums, something either has to be a WoW killer or its a failure, nothing in between. that is why I say they think very bitwise
but to be fair yes, I get what yoyu are saying and its more true then not
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
I think the problem many posters here at MMORPG have is a bitwise way of thinking
One size must fit all, its either 'the future of gaming' or its 'not the future of gaming' its never 'its big but other things are bigger and oh by the way there is no majority in the world of gaming.
How about "I don't like esport therefore somehow it isn't the future".
not exactly
'its the future' implies that it will replace other aspects of gaming and that is not a requirement for something to be successful. It happens a LOT around these forums, something either has to be a WoW killer or its a failure, nothing in between. that is why I say they think very bitwise
but to be fair yes, I get what yoyu are saying and its more true then not
It might be true in the case of the OP. People should play games or at least learn to play games even if it doesn't have their favorite features.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
First, outside of shooters, there is very little 'skill' involved in gaming. An average gamer watching a LoL pro could go and mimic their actions easily. The difference comes in the pros decision making, reaction time, and teamwork. While there is a big difference it is just not as entertaining as if the game were also able to take technical skill into account. When you watch an actual sport, professional athletes constantly are doing things you probably could never achieve, and they do that in addition to having excellent decision making and teamwork. Obviously shooters are an exception here, and I think that is fine.
Second, I hate that 'esports' is really code for 'we want high player count/revenue with low effort.' When I see a dev/publisher using the word it is always bad news. In GW2 you can see there is actually less sPvP content now than there was 3 years ago, the devs removed a map. No new maps yet, but don't worry - ESPORTS!
Third, I think 'asymmetric balance' is a terrible idea for any truly competitive game, but every game tries it anyways. Asymmetry is fun for the average player, but is flat out impossible to perfectly balance. It leads to 'fotm' classes in mmos and meta comps in mobas. It is a fun idea for a game but a terrible idea for any sport.
Fourth, games are inherently harder to spectate than actual sports. In sports you focus on the ball, players interacting with the ball are all visible, you can can appreciate their positioning, teamwork, and skill easily. In esports every player is the ball. Right now esports broadcasts usually make heavy use of replays to try and show relevant player perspectives, but it is a flawed solution. In CS:GO you frequently need to wait until an analyst shows on the map what all team members were doing to truly appreciate a beautiful play, whereas a beautiful play in an actual sport is immediately apparent and appreciated.
Anyways, outside of shooters I think esports are a huge waste of time. I really wouldn't mind except it seems that sometimes the focus on esports hurts development of the game - see point 2. When a developer says they want to promote esports in their title, it is invariably bad news. I do not understand why a dev wanting their game to be an esport always seems to come at some expense, but it does.
Anyways, outside of shooters I think esports are a huge waste of time.
Obviously not everyone has the same preference as you. You certainly can think that playing starcraft is a waste of your time, but I am sure the Korean pros would disagree.
This is exactly why I focus more on balanced games where the "win" is divided with 50% tactical/gear/item and 50% action based. This also allows me to relax far more in the process, play longer and still feel like I'm "winning" as long as I do the right actions. This is another reason why MMO's which are all about core progression on your character allow you to separate yourself over the long run against individuals who have simply no knowledge on the world and allow me to play in a "relaxed" environment. You also don't have to be on alert non-stop, you can do other activities.
But you're forgetting that competition (digital or not) is a young man and women's' sport. Which is why most athletes retire before they hit 35 (usually earlier). And e-sports and competition driven games are currently popular - of course they have a huge young population chewing on them right now. Just like Yo-Yos did in the 90s.
I'm turning 30 this year and I'm already noticing my reaction speeds and such have started to slow down in comparison to how quick I could play when I was 20. I really enjoy competitive games but I also really enjoy relaxing crafting and chatting to friends or the semi-competitiveness of midcore raiding - getting content clear before the majority but not going for the world/server first. But that doesn't stop me getting into the competition when I jump on Overwatch, CS:GO, DOTA2 etc.
Though saying MMOs "separate yourself" against "individuals who have simply no knowledge on the world" is a tad unfair. I know kids who have thousands of hours in an MMO who simply move onto the next one when it comes out and grown up who have spent hundreds of hours mastering skills in MOBAs and Shooters or fighting games and compete at a high level. You need some serious knowledge of certain games to get good and I'd say MMOs have a much simpler and gentler learning curve.
Comments
The Super Bowl alone had 114 million.
The World Series had 14.7 million.
The World Cup had around 1 billion.
As others mentioned, I specifically cited a Center position, for a good reason.
Let's approach this from a different angle. How many players in the NFL/NBA/MLB walk into the league straight out of high school? There are handfuls that exist and do achieve this, but name me one that wasn't 1) A physical prodigy/genetic masterpiece and 2) Also unbelievably gifted at their craft, be it a blessing or constant hard work.
On the contrary, how many "pro" e-sports gamers are self-developed talent? All of them. E-sports basically became a thing by the players themselves. While the pro teams have coaches, most players are self-taught and learn from simply observing and re-executing what they witness. That, alone, disproves the argument that sports and e-sports have similar limitations. There are "rails" so to speak, that pro athletes have to follow to become pro athletes. Years of physical conditioning. Maintaining their grades. Developing relationships with other players, schools, coaches, and organizations themselves. If they're good enough in high school, they make the varsity team. From that crop, if they're good enough at the end of high school, they go to college. After 4 years of college, the best of the best that were able to maintain the standards set forth by the high school, their college, and their professional organization of choice move on to the professional leagues. All of this, mind you, is limited by even more additional factors; playing time, relationships with teammates and coaching staff, weather, etc.
Pro gamers have numerous avenues. Players can simply play more games. They aren't limited to a pre-set limit on their number of games in a season. They can switch teams regularly to get more favorable advantages. They can rise to fame through mechanical skill, or through streaming. In a sense, there are numerous avenues to become a "successful" pro gamer; there are far stricter, far more controlled methods of becoming a pro athlete, unless you are truly a prodigy from the heavens (Stephen Strassburg, anyone?!?) who defies all logic. There are *FAR* less limiting factors that a pro gamer has in their way than a pro athlete does, and that's why I personally (and many others, i believe) consider it an impractical comparison when it is brought up.
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
Also, this may come as a shock to you, but carpal tunnel can affect anyone who has a job or hobby that involves repetitive wrist movements. Grocery store cashiers, factory workers, etc., and I dare say many of them have it far tougher than some spoiled 'e-sports' player who sits in a comfy chair playing video games all day.
AN' DERE AIN'T NO SUCH FING AS ENUFF DAKKA, YA GROT! Enuff'z more than ya got an' less than too much an' there ain't no such fing as too much dakka. Say dere is, and me Squiggoff'z eatin' tonight!
We are born of the blood. Made men by the blood. Undone by the blood. Our eyes are yet to open. FEAR THE OLD BLOOD.
#IStandWithVic
never the less it doesnt even matter, anything that is coming even CLOSE to Sports numbers in viewership is an important trend
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Yes, I would agree that there are fewer barriers to entry into e-sports as there would be with pro sports. With e-Sports everyone plays at the same level, by the same rules, against everyone else. So those barriers are removed, I agree.
The main reason that I would challenge your believe that it's an impractical comparison is that, why are the SAME people consistently winning? If e-sports was a level playing field, then everyone would have a fair shake, right? As it stands, there are a few teams who consistently dominate, which would indicate that there is more to it than learned skills. Actually, there's scientific studies which conclude what I said earlier. e-Sports athletes display greater cognitive abilities than amateur or casual players. So while you're more than welcome to an opinion, until you disprove what's already been scientifically proven, you're wrong. That is unless you're a neurobiologist who has been conducting studies on these e-sports athletes for the past 5 years.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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Steam: Neph
27 million is a lot regardless of if its as much as real sports or not.
The REAL misleading part here is the assumption that unless the numbers are as much or more than real sports then the entire esports thing is insignificant. That is a gross misrepresentation of what is happening
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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MMORPG forum user: "someone needs to cancel that show it clearly does not have any future on TV."
Steam: Neph
I'm sure some of those GoT and Super Bowl viewers were double counted as well. Better hurry up and cancel those train wrecks.....
Steam: Neph
Throw him a bone..... Sure, the Super Bowl will live on! All other sports? Well, obviously dead and dying. World Series averaged around 15 million viewers per game. NHL, 2.5 per game in the Stanley Cup Finals, NBA saw most viewers since 2010 in game 7 with 31 million.
Crazkanuk
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Azarelos - 90 Hunter - Emerald
Durnzig - 90 Paladin - Emerald
Demonicron - 90 Death Knight - Emerald Dream - US
Tankinpain - 90 Monk - Azjol-Nerub - US
Brindell - 90 Warrior - Emerald Dream - US
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some crack smokin goin on here
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
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The point is its a very significant number, THAT is what is important take away here having people running aorund saying its more than the superbowl is a fact check that doesnt change the meaning of the example one bit and that kind of fact checking is called 'being anal'
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They also have mandatory exercise, and almost none of them are not overweight, ...
First, medical issues and gaming. Yes, there are some issues in gaming related more with how you physically play the game. Playing with a mouse and keyboard improperly can have effects over the long term in your wrists, arms, neck and back. These have been documented elsewhere and I am not going to quote them here. If you wish more info...look them up. The talk about "stress", "heart problems", and "blood pressure" issues I have never seen ANY documentation suggesting this to be the case. From a personal standpoint, playing FPS or RTS games (or any other game for that matter) has always been a calming form of entertainment. If you are stressing overly much in playing any game, you probably are doing something wrong.
In regards to the "e-sports" debate, I really think it is more a fad then a real long lasting trend. Gaming and games change so quickly over a short period of time. To me that does not leave much time for a game to become popular and remain their a a "sporting" entertainment venue. Further, I know I am not alone when I say that most people would rather play the game being touted as the e-sport then to watch someone else competing. Not all of course but I just do not see many of my friends talking about the latest GS:GO e-sport event. They talk about the newest or upcoming game or the one they are playing most and e-sports never comes up. That's my two cents.
Let's party like it is 1863!
oh and when it comes to trends, I dont have a high failure rate on my predictions
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I think the reason MOBAs popularized e-sports so much is because they require an insane amount of game knowledge to be good. Without watching pro players, it would take thousands of games on your own time to figure anything out. However, streaming LCS allows a person who can play, say, 10 games of League a week to effectively "learn" the game by observation. Maybe it's your favorite champion in an unfavorable matchup, and you want to see how the pro player mitigates the misery of a bad lane. This is something even professional athletes do in the form of the film room; some things you can pick up on solely by observation.
I strongly believe that MOBAs will start seeing a decline in viewship, mainly because I think people are sort of just getting "over" the genre. Oversaturation + time exposure, similar to many people experiencing burnout with MMORPGs, will lead FPS to become more popular, especially in the form of Overwatch and CS:Go
Waiting for something fresh to arrive on the MMO scene...
How about "I don't like esport therefore somehow it isn't the future".
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
http://www.apa.org/helpcenter/stress.aspx
Not all stress is bad but the type of mental fatigue from playing prolonged gaming is actually a bad form of stress. For the mental portion you can begin to see example of what I as combat fatigue for people that play PVP based games for extended periods. I am not talking about a match here or there. I am talking about the people that play hours an hours at a time.
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'its the future' implies that it will replace other aspects of gaming and that is not a requirement for something to be successful. It happens a LOT around these forums, something either has to be a WoW killer or its a failure, nothing in between. that is why I say they think very bitwise
but to be fair yes, I get what yoyu are saying and its more true then not
Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.
Please do not respond to me
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
First, outside of shooters, there is very little 'skill' involved in gaming. An average gamer watching a LoL pro could go and mimic their actions easily. The difference comes in the pros decision making, reaction time, and teamwork. While there is a big difference it is just not as entertaining as if the game were also able to take technical skill into account. When you watch an actual sport, professional athletes constantly are doing things you probably could never achieve, and they do that in addition to having excellent decision making and teamwork. Obviously shooters are an exception here, and I think that is fine.
Second, I hate that 'esports' is really code for 'we want high player count/revenue with low effort.' When I see a dev/publisher using the word it is always bad news. In GW2 you can see there is actually less sPvP content now than there was 3 years ago, the devs removed a map. No new maps yet, but don't worry - ESPORTS!
Third, I think 'asymmetric balance' is a terrible idea for any truly competitive game, but every game tries it anyways. Asymmetry is fun for the average player, but is flat out impossible to perfectly balance. It leads to 'fotm' classes in mmos and meta comps in mobas. It is a fun idea for a game but a terrible idea for any sport.
Fourth, games are inherently harder to spectate than actual sports. In sports you focus on the ball, players interacting with the ball are all visible, you can can appreciate their positioning, teamwork, and skill easily. In esports every player is the ball. Right now esports broadcasts usually make heavy use of replays to try and show relevant player perspectives, but it is a flawed solution. In CS:GO you frequently need to wait until an analyst shows on the map what all team members were doing to truly appreciate a beautiful play, whereas a beautiful play in an actual sport is immediately apparent and appreciated.
Anyways, outside of shooters I think esports are a huge waste of time. I really wouldn't mind except it seems that sometimes the focus on esports hurts development of the game - see point 2. When a developer says they want to promote esports in their title, it is invariably bad news. I do not understand why a dev wanting their game to be an esport always seems to come at some expense, but it does.
I'm turning 30 this year and I'm already noticing my reaction speeds and such have started to slow down in comparison to how quick I could play when I was 20. I really enjoy competitive games but I also really enjoy relaxing crafting and chatting to friends or the semi-competitiveness of midcore raiding - getting content clear before the majority but not going for the world/server first. But that doesn't stop me getting into the competition when I jump on Overwatch, CS:GO, DOTA2 etc.
Though saying MMOs "separate yourself" against "individuals who have simply no knowledge on the world" is a tad unfair. I know kids who have thousands of hours in an MMO who simply move onto the next one when it comes out and grown up who have spent hundreds of hours mastering skills in MOBAs and Shooters or fighting games and compete at a high level. You need some serious knowledge of certain games to get good and I'd say MMOs have a much simpler and gentler learning curve.