Got my PC off the grid (Solar)

psiic

Price of solar panels has dropped to all time low of almost $1 a watt.  For a little over $500 including two solar batteries I have now gone totally green with my PC for an annual savings in power of nearly $700 on my power bill.  I've always been interested in solar but with it at $7-9 a watt was always out of my price range.  I was amazed how easy it was to install and hook up myself, easier than putting together a PC for sure. I did skimp on my batteries a little and will probably add two more next month.  If this turns out as efficient as it appears, I may have to cover my whole roof while the panels are only $110-120 each.   

psiic

Oh and my pc runs 24/7 with heavy use most of the day and its having no problems at all with power draw. 

Quizzical

I assume you mean you converted your house, not just your PC.  A desktop computer typically doesn't use very much energy as compared to other appliances like a refrigerator.

Phry

Must admit, it sounds expensive, Solar isn't cheap, and installations of a reasonable size for a house costs in the range of 10's of thousands of £, as for solar batteries? i am assuming means enough capacity to supply the house during hours of darkness etc. which is also not cheap either, would be very interested what the total cost was, as i am kind of assuming its over £30,000 O.o

Deathenger

I did the numbers and your math seems legit if you really are running your PC for 24/7/365. I have a respectable PC and my machine with monitor draw somewhere in the neighborhood of .6 amps so the numbers I had VS your yearly operating costs are around the same.

Though how many batters are you running that can keep you up and running without the panels thru the night? Do you have an equation for battery capacity and your watt usage to figure out how many battery you need, and what size they should be? I been thinking about getting some panels and a battery system to install low voltage led lighting system in my house. I'm currently trending power usage via some commercial grade building automation controls.

Here is a shot of the phone view page I slapped together. As you can see I have to redo the math for my "Projected Bill" calculation, lol

Deathenger

Phry said:

Must admit, it sounds expensive, Solar isn't cheap, and installations of a reasonable size for a house costs in the range of 10's of thousands of £, as for solar batteries? i am assuming means enough capacity to supply the house during hours of darkness etc. which is also not cheap either, would be very interested what the total cost was, as i am kind of assuming its over £30,000 O.o

For a DIY system, gold cart batterys are a good inexpensive choice choice.

http://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/equipment-products/grid-batteries

Quizzical

One reason why solar can make some sense for individual consumers even when it doesn't make sense for electric utilities is that most of the power that they transmit to you is lost in transmission.  One number I saw somewhere is that something like 87% of the power "used" by residential customers is transmission losses, not actual power that they consumed.  The losses in storage and transmission are rather smaller than that from solar panels on your own roof.  The big industrial customers that use many megawatts have far smaller transmission losses, as they don't need a huge web of power cables that each don't carry very much power, and in some cases, can physically locate right next to a big power plant.

Solar is far more viable as a way to supplement other energy sources than to replace them.  Both seasonal variations and daily variations due on clouds make solar rather unreliable if it's your only source of power.  But just because you can't replace coal or whatever for 100% of your energy usage doesn't mean solar can't replace it for 50% with coal or whatever your local utility uses as a backup.

Depending on where you live, you should probably be cautious of assuming that June numbers are typical.  With the summer solstice later this month, unless June is considerably cloudier than some other months (which I doubt, but I don't know), it's probably the sunniest month of the year for most places substantially north of the equator.

Phry

Deathenger said:

Phry said:

Must admit, it sounds expensive, Solar isn't cheap, and installations of a reasonable size for a house costs in the range of 10's of thousands of £, as for solar batteries? i am assuming means enough capacity to supply the house during hours of darkness etc. which is also not cheap either, would be very interested what the total cost was, as i am kind of assuming its over £30,000 O.o

For a DIY system, gold cart batterys are a good inexpensive choice choice.

http://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/equipment-products/grid-batteries

Not sure they are a good choice these days, but its an old website, so the information there is probably a bit out of date, there is this however;
http://www.sma.de/en/products/battery-inverters/sunny-boy-storage-25.html
Still, its expensive, and Lead acid batteries will probably need replacing after 5 years etc.

psiic

I am using two 12v marine boat batteries I picked up cheap $35 each. Like I said I kind of skimped on the batteries and need to spend a little to add some more to my bank. And no I am not powering my whole house yet. I bought a 100w starter kit for $120 and added 3 panels for $100 each.  I am using an old car inverter I had laying around but I am currently bidding on a 1500/3000 watt inverter on ebay I am about to win. 

holdenhamlet

This is a great idea.  Did you get any rebate or anything from your state/local/fed government?  There are programs to encourage you to go solar and give you some money to do it.

psiic

Ooooh havent looked into that holdenhamlet I will check with my city county and state. I am in florida and have a flat roof that cooks all day long so it only makes sense to cover that sucker in solar with it being this cheap. We also have really strong breeze here all day off the Gulf of Mexico been looking at some plans that take and auto generator and some zinc sheets to cut blades to make a wind turbine. 

Vrika

Quizzical said: 

 One number I saw somewhere is that something like 87% of the power "used" by residential customers is transmission losses, not actual power that they consumed. 

I don't think that's true. Just imagine how hot your house would be, if for every watt hour of energy your devices use you'd get 7.7 watt hours of heat. I confess I couldn't find any numbers, though.

I was able to find that Finland's gross energy consumption is 83 416 GWh, of which transmission losses are 966 GWh (1.2%) and distribution losses 1 820 GWh (2.2%). That's only transmission and distribution losses up to your power meter, but it would be strange if losses inside the house were 87% when the whole network before house only loses a bit over 3%.

Source for my numbers: http://energia.fi/tilastot-ja-julkaisut/sahkotilastot/sahkonkulutus/sahkon-kaytto-ja-verkostohaviot

EDIT: Also whatever power is lost inside your house is lost whether you connect the house to power network or to a solar panel. The solar panel could only help with that 3% loss caused by distribution and transmission before the energy reaches your power meter /EDIT

holdenhamlet

psiic said:

Ooooh havent looked into that holdenhamlet I will check with my city county and state. I am in florida and have a flat roof that cooks all day long so it only makes sense to cover that sucker in solar with it being this cheap. We also have really strong breeze here all day off the Gulf of Mexico been looking at some plans that take and auto generator and some zinc sheets to cut blades to make a wind turbine. 

You should be definitely able to find something.  If nothing else, I bet you could get tax write-offs for them.

Sovrath

A friend was able to install them at a great deal through her town. She was able to write them off her taxes and she has found that there were several months in a row she didn't have to pay an electrical bill.

Gruug

Solar can be great...if you have enough sunshine to make to worth while. I live in a state that does not get as much sun as say Florida and solar is not at this point a viable option.

Quizzical

Vrika said:

Quizzical said: 

 One number I saw somewhere is that something like 87% of the power "used" by residential customers is transmission losses, not actual power that they consumed. 

I don't think that's true. Just imagine how hot your house would be, if for every watt hour of energy your devices use you'd get 7.7 watt hours of heat. I confess I couldn't find any numbers, though.

I was able to find that Finland's gross energy consumption is 83 416 GWh, of which transmission losses are 966 GWh (1.2%) and distribution losses 1 820 GWh (2.2%). That's only transmission and distribution losses up to your power meter, but it would be strange if losses inside the house were 87% when the whole network before house only loses a bit over 3%.

Source for my numbers: http://energia.fi/tilastot-ja-julkaisut/sahkotilastot/sahkonkulutus/sahkon-kaytto-ja-verkostohaviot

EDIT: Also whatever power is lost inside your house is lost whether you connect the house to power network or to a solar panel. The solar panel could only help with that 3% loss caused by distribution and transmission before the energy reaches your power meter /EDIT

I don't mean losses inside your house.  I mean losses between where the power is generated hundreds of miles away and where it reaches you.

It's also possible that either what I read was completely wrong or I misinterpreted it.

Deathenger

Vrika said:

Quizzical said: 

 One number I saw somewhere is that something like 87% of the power "used" by residential customers is transmission losses, not actual power that they consumed. 

I don't think that's true. Just imagine how hot your house would be, if for every watt hour of energy your devices use you'd get 7.7 watt hours of heat. I confess I couldn't find any numbers, though.

I was able to find that Finland's gross energy consumption is 83 416 GWh, of which transmission losses are 966 GWh (1.2%) and distribution losses 1 820 GWh (2.2%). That's only transmission and distribution losses up to your power meter, but it would be strange if losses inside the house were 87% when the whole network before house only loses a bit over 3%.

Source for my numbers: http://energia.fi/tilastot-ja-julkaisut/sahkotilastot/sahkonkulutus/sahkon-kaytto-ja-verkostohaviot

EDIT: Also whatever power is lost inside your house is lost whether you connect the house to power network or to a solar panel. The solar panel could only help with that 3% loss caused by distribution and transmission before the energy reaches your power meter /EDIT

 The loss is between making the electricity and delivery I believe.

Your home electricity bill used is measured in kWh and it's the actual power you're consiming. 

Billing is complicated. It's based on a rate per kWh used plus some other fees like delivery charges. You also get charged a different rate per kWh if you go above a certain amount. My rate changes once my kWh goes over 1000.

nariusseldon

Why this is interesting information, how is this relevant to MMO discussions? Heck, this is not even a gaming discussion. 

Vrika

Quizzical said:

Vrika said:

Quizzical said: 

 One number I saw somewhere is that something like 87% of the power "used" by residential customers is transmission losses, not actual power that they consumed. 

I don't think that's true. Just imagine how hot your house would be, if for every watt hour of energy your devices use you'd get 7.7 watt hours of heat. I confess I couldn't find any numbers, though.

I was able to find that Finland's gross energy consumption is 83 416 GWh, of which transmission losses are 966 GWh (1.2%) and distribution losses 1 820 GWh (2.2%). That's only transmission and distribution losses up to your power meter, but it would be strange if losses inside the house were 87% when the whole network before house only loses a bit over 3%.

Source for my numbers: http://energia.fi/tilastot-ja-julkaisut/sahkotilastot/sahkonkulutus/sahkon-kaytto-ja-verkostohaviot

EDIT: Also whatever power is lost inside your house is lost whether you connect the house to power network or to a solar panel. The solar panel could only help with that 3% loss caused by distribution and transmission before the energy reaches your power meter /EDIT

I don't mean losses inside your house.  I mean losses between where the power is generated hundreds of miles away and where it reaches you.

It's also possible that either what I read was completely wrong or I misinterpreted it.

But the loss between where power is generated and where it reaches you is only 3%. Even if that's the figure for whole power network, there's no way the whole network could achieve that figure if the losses to residential customers were 87%.

It looks like for network of USA the loss total loss is 6%
 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.cfm?id=105&t=3

The number 87% isn't totally false, though. It looks like that's the loss for the power network of Togo
 http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/EG.ELC.LOSS.ZS?order=wbapi_data_value_2013+wbapi_data_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc

MadFrenchie

nariusseldon said:

Why this is interesting information, how is this relevant to MMO discussions? Heck, this is not even a gaming discussion. 

I just assume by solar, he means the definition I have in my head: video games that have simulated sunlight in them.  The operators of this site list a lot of games which simulate sunlight.

So, to me and the operators of this site, it's directly related.  If you choose not to use that same definition, that's your right.

cameltosis

I'm not into the whole eco-thing so I don't really care about saving the planet / reducing reliance on fossil fuels etc. 

However, "getting off the grid" is something I've always fancied and been curious as to how much it would cost. I love the idea of having a cabin / isolated house somewhere that has no phone lines, electricity or is on the water mains - just completely self-sufficient. However, I'm not really the rugged outdoors type, so I'd want my creature comforts - some heating, tv (but no receiver - dvd/blu-ray only), stereo, gaming system, hot water. 

From the sounds of it, looks like solar panels are reaching a point where it is feasible to power such a place completely via solar!

I'm curious about a few things:

You said that cost of solar panels plus batteries was about $500 but that was enough to permanently power you PC (running 247 365). That seems very cheap. What sort of lifespan are you going to get out of that setup?

Batteries - again, what sort of lifespan? In the theoretical zombie apocalypse, how long can you hole up before you need to go loot some new batteries? 

Efficiency - how much of your setup is viable simply due to the fact you live in Florida? I live in the UK, not exactly the sunniest of places so I imagine I'd need to double / triple the number of panels in comparison to you? This is especially true as the only places in the UK im likely to be able to buy / build an isolated house or cabin is further up north where it rains 360 days a year! (joke, but sort of true :P )

Vrika

@cameltosis ;

You'd need to have ridiculous number of solar panels to cope during winter months. It's not very realistic to install that many panels.

But it might be realistic to do it with solar powers + using wood when there's not enough solar power available. Assuming you move to the middle of some woods there will be wood available, and it's great for heating water + your house during winter months when there's less solar power.

If using wood as an additional energy source, you should probably also use an absorption refrigerator. In theory it should be possible to run an absorption refrigerator on hot water, though I don't know if there are any such models available.

EDIT: Here's some useful info on solar panel effectivity on UK: 
 http://www.cambridge-solar.co.uk/solar-pv-cambridge/

Sovrath

nariusseldon said:

Why this is interesting information, how is this relevant to MMO discussions? Heck, this is not even a gaming discussion. 

Because gaming uses computers/consoles which use electricity and he has found a way to reduce his electrical usage.

And apparently he's saved $700.00 doing it.

That's at least "a few games" if one wanted to look at it that way.

nariusseldon

MadFrenchie said:

nariusseldon said:

Why this is interesting information, how is this relevant to MMO discussions? Heck, this is not even a gaming discussion. 

I just assume by solar, he means the definition I have in my head: video games that have simulated sunlight in them.  The operators of this site list a lot of games which simulate sunlight.

So, to me and the operators of this site, it's directly related.  If you choose not to use that same definition, that's your right.

lol ... 

In the spirit of *this* argument, i think the "solar simulation" in most games are all wrong. The wave length distributions of our sun is simply not simulated correctly. And why doesn't my toon get sun-burn?

MadFrenchie

nariusseldon said:

MadFrenchie said:

nariusseldon said:

Why this is interesting information, how is this relevant to MMO discussions? Heck, this is not even a gaming discussion. 

I just assume by solar, he means the definition I have in my head: video games that have simulated sunlight in them.  The operators of this site list a lot of games which simulate sunlight.

So, to me and the operators of this site, it's directly related.  If you choose not to use that same definition, that's your right.

lol ... 

In the spirit of *this* argument, i think the "solar simulation" in most games are all wrong. The wave length distributions of our sun is simply not simulated correctly. And why doesn't my toon get sun-burn?

I'm going to assume we just missed some small part of the lore in these other games explaining how their atmosphere filters out just enough radiation to prevent sunburns, thereby also causing the wavelengths to appear distinctly foreign from our own.

nariusseldon

MadFrenchie said:

nariusseldon said:

MadFrenchie said:

nariusseldon said:

Why this is interesting information, how is this relevant to MMO discussions? Heck, this is not even a gaming discussion. 

I just assume by solar, he means the definition I have in my head: video games that have simulated sunlight in them.  The operators of this site list a lot of games which simulate sunlight.

So, to me and the operators of this site, it's directly related.  If you choose not to use that same definition, that's your right.

lol ... 

In the spirit of *this* argument, i think the "solar simulation" in most games are all wrong. The wave length distributions of our sun is simply not simulated correctly. And why doesn't my toon get sun-burn?

I'm going to assume we just missed some small part of the lore in these other games explaining how their atmosphere filters out just enough radiation to prevent sunburns, thereby also causing the wavelengths to appear distinctly foreign from our own.

Or may be just chalk it up to magic .. that is easier. Magic is the panacea to explaining any game design decision, from instant teleportation, to big floating shoulder armor pieces.