Level Grind: can we finally admit that this turns off most players in New MMOs?

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  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 13,766
    Loke666 said:
    Torval said:
    Loke666 said:
    Torval said:
    I found level-grinding in Shadowbane to be interesting.  There was a tiny chance of decent gear dropping, so each grind felt like pulling the lever on a slot machine.
    So old mmos were just like casinos only you rented access and got to pull the slot handle a lot and it paid out a few times a month.
    You work and get payed? It is like casinos if you work there. Just subbing wouldn't get you anywhere after all, you need to find it as well.
    He's the one that called old school loot mechanics like pulling the slot machine lever not me. I just described how we paid for it back then. I'm only pointing out that people considered old school games casinos too.
    Yeah, lol (but it sounded better to when I replayed under you then him so both text boxes could be seen).

    The whole F2P market made the comparision somewhat better though even if it really only work for mystery loot boxes and other random stuff.

    Modern MMOs are more like a 7-eleven then a casino. :smile: )
    That's a great metaphor. Do you have 7-eleven in Sweden? Where did you hear of it if not.
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  • Loke666Loke666 KalmarMember EpicPosts: 20,594
    Torval said:
    That's a great metaphor. Do you have 7-eleven in Sweden? Where did you hear of it if not.
    Duh, we are not living in a barn. ;)

    And no, we don't have polar bears (surprisingly many people seems to think that for some reason). 
    Torval
  • TorvalTorval Member LegendaryPosts: 13,766
    Loke666 said:
    Torval said:
    That's a great metaphor. Do you have 7-eleven in Sweden? Where did you hear of it if not.
    Duh, we are not living in a barn. ;)

    And no, we don't have polar bears (surprisingly many people seems to think that for some reason). 
    I asked because in the US there are popular store chains on the east coast we don't have on the west, or are very rare and vice versa. I guess the corner convenience store is sort of a universal concept regardless of the name. I figured there would be a more popular regional company. I could have just looked on wikipedia. It lists it all right there. :lol:
    Avatar Artist: U2
    Album: War (Remastered)
    Featured Tracks: Seconds, "40"
  • irnbru69irnbru69 perthMember UncommonPosts: 93
    edited August 11
    Filthy casuals stop whining, casuals are the reason why mmos suck today.......that classic excuse " i dont have time to play so cash shops are ok for me"......Filthy casuals go play minecraft then.

    Leveling up in RPGS or MMOS is what I enjoy the most...it is certainly not the stupid end game grinds.....like doing daily daily quests and pvp ?? yea ok
    Post edited by irnbru69 on
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember RarePosts: 1,931
    edited August 11
    The scaling down of importance isn't a result of the MMO portion.  We've had this discussion. 

    Nobody says MMOs need deep vertical progression.  Planetside 2 didn't have deep vertical progression.  Because it's closer to an FPS than RPG.

    RPGs, by and large, had, have, and will continue to rely on vertical progression, either by leveling or by tiered loot.  It's part of the RPG, not the MMO.
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

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  • Loke666Loke666 KalmarMember EpicPosts: 20,594
    Torval said:
    I asked because in the US there are popular store chains on the east coast we don't have on the west, or are very rare and vice versa. I guess the corner convenience store is sort of a universal concept regardless of the name. I figured there would be a more popular regional company. I could have just looked on wikipedia. It lists it all right there. :lol:
    We don't have Wallmarts and like 3 or 4 KFCs but I think you have to go to Cuba or North Korea to not find a 7 eleven nowadays. Cuba is at least the only place I been that doesn't have Mc Donalds & 7-eleven (no, I never  been to North Korea, it doesn't seem like a good play to be a tourist).

    All Scandinavian countries except maybe Iceland (have not been there either) have them. I'm not actually sure why, it's a convinient little store but not really something unique.

    But it certainly is the best likelness to F2P cashshops I can think off. :)
    MadFrenchie said:
    The scaling down of importance isn't a result of the MMO portion.  We've had this discussion. 

    Nobody says MMOs need deep vertical progression.  Planetside 2 didn't have deep vertical progression.  Because it's closer to an FPS than RPG.

    RPGs, by and large, had, have, and will continue to rely on vertical progression, either by leveling or by tiered loot.  It's part of the RPG, not the MMO.
    RPGs tend to have some kind of progression, yes. There are exceptions like Myst but they are few.

    How much progression is another matter, Guildwars did well with a rather minimal vertical and some horizontal so you can clearly make a MMORPG with limited progression, particularly PvP MMORPGs.

    The whole persistent world thing mean people except some progression after all. You might make one based on guild or realm progression instead of personal one. You could probably pull of a CIV based MMORPG where you progression helps the tech level of your realm which in turn give you access to that tech yourself, it would be an interesting experiement. 

    Personal progression works, but you can likely tweak it to offer more fun.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember RarePosts: 1,931
    Oh I won't deny that at all, I agree.  And I think games with shallow vertical progression are fine.  Even ideal; variety is the spice of life.

    The issue is with the idea that "MMOs" have the problem of vertical progression.  They don't, because nothing about the MMO part requires vertical progression.  That stems from the RPG roots.

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  • EldurianEldurian Member RarePosts: 1,412
    Vertical Progression is a feature of RPGs like a garage is a feature of a house. They are commonly associated but not required. You can have a house without a garage attached to it, and you can have RPGs without vertical progression. Nowhere does it say roleplaying games need vertical progression.

    In MMOs they have proven to actually be a distraction from the primary feature of RPGs. Roleplay. 
    Loke666
  • nerovergilnerovergil klMember UncommonPosts: 630
    i want 90 years to reach lv 90
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