Think about how much money they would require from an invester if they were to rush the game, your talking about having them give up probably over 30% control maybe more. And in my opinion that is when you should be worried about not receiving whats advertised.
Maybe thats exactly what we need now publishers to tell developers that what they are asking is neither feasible through resources or time so we don't get these decade long projects like star citizen that may or may nor ship or be feature complete?
I would agree except for that has been going on since WoW and all we get is WoW see the flaw in your idea yet? No offence but your way isnt working....its making money but I dont see anyone happy with current games that have been using the same recipe. And remember once the foundation of new ideas is implemented we will see a growth in ideas because developers will learn how to do new things. Wow is a good example of that happening, and yes im sure time will repeat it self but I think it will not be the same once the genre moves into dynamic world building.
I personally dont give money to someone to make a game. Most of the best games ever made never required kickstarter to accomplish. Why all the sudden do so many games require being kickstarted?
Games should make money based on their merit of being a good game not on hopes that they may be a good game.
Its ridiculous and stupid IMO
Because games now cost over 10,000% more to make than they did 15 years ago, if you adjust that for inflation, the cost of making a AAA Game has still increased by a phenominal amount. Look at the budget for classics and I mean BIG classics like Baldurs Gate, Doom, Quake, Super Mario, and compare that to games in the same Genre's now.
WIth that much money at risk, the big publishers will only back projects they think can get them a significant Return on Investment.
Combine this with the perception that MMO's are the "Highest Risk" games and you can see why Major studios are moving away from them. Thats why there are NO big western MMOs coming any time soon, the biggest ones came not from major publishers, but from Kickstarters.
Now a smaller indie studio cant afford to take that risk on, so they turn to a different form of funding.
Sure there are some who abuse it, and sure its buyer beware. But thats why kickstarter exists. Its not stupid or Ridiculous, its a product of the times.
Think about how much money they would require from an invester if they were to rush the game, your talking about having them give up probably over 30% control maybe more. And in my opinion that is when you should be worried about not receiving whats advertised.
Maybe thats exactly what we need now publishers to tell developers that what they are asking is neither feasible through resources or time so we don't get these decade long projects like star citizen that may or may nor ship or be feature complete?
I would agree except for that has been going on since WoW and all we get is WoW see the flaw in your idea yet? No offence but your way isnt working....its making money but I dont see anyone happy with current games that have been using the same recipe.
I'm going to wager that most people see these kickstarters that require $300k-500k and 2 years development time and think, "hey something doesn't add up here"
But through pure desperation to stimulate change they throw money at such projects even though these projects are just not feasible because of resources, time or developer incompetence.
How many released kickstarded mmorpgs do you see since the inception of the kickstarter concept? None. and it remains to be see if the ones in development will actually reach their potential. but what we do know there is a whole string of abandoned or scam projects that have crashed in burned.
Its not working "your" way either.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Rasiem said:
its making money but I dont see anyone happy with current games that have been using the same recipe.
Unless you speak about yourself as "anyone", how else do you think those games - enterainment business, is making money if not off people who are having fun?
Really, get off your high horse/put your blinders off or w/e...
Because there not released yet due to development means they have failed?? im sorry but im pretty sure theres more that has failed your way friend look at.
Final Fantasy XIV, 2010-2012. ...
Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, 2008-2013. ...
The Matrix Online, 2005-2009. ...
APB: Reloaded, 2010-present. ...
Earth and Beyond, 2002-2004. ...
Star Wars Galaxies, 2003-2011.
Wildstar Barley afloat I can find lists all day and not one is a bunk kickstarter buddy.
Because there not released yet due to development means they have failed?? im sorry but im pretty sure theres more that has failed your way friend look at.
Final Fantasy XIV, 2010-2012. ...
Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning, 2008-2013. ...
The Matrix Online, 2005-2009. ...
APB: Reloaded, 2010-present. ...
Earth and Beyond, 2002-2004. ...
Star Wars Galaxies, 2003-2011.
Wildstar Barley afloat I can find lists all day and not one is a bunk kickstarter buddy.
I never said they failed because they are still in development, I said they haven't released.
You know, the final state of the development processes where the software is ready to generate income?
All those games up there actually RELEASED and generated profit, it was because of consumer behaviour that they failed as it should be.
But think about this, if games like the matrix and war hammer on-line with a mainstream audience count in the 100 thousands, What hope does a kickstarter campaign have with only 8,580 interested parties have for long term financial security?
lets say for argument sake every one of those backers gets 10 of his or her friends to join that's still trivial compared to those games above peak numbers.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I like the concept of the game and I think everything they have on paper looks great. The problems is I would have hoped to have seen more gameplay footage to shell out money for development. I would like to see a game like this succeed. But if makes you wonder whether the combat will be good or bland. All that any of us have seen thus far is the PAX east video, and that't it. I wish they would have came with more gameplay footage before coming to kickstarter to ask for money. I think a lot of people are going to put their money into this and be severely disappointed in the final product they receive.
It's great that they posted new screenshots of images, but I want to see actual game combat against mobs, pvp etc. Until then, they are just taking people's money away on a dream. Does anyone else feel the same way and have not backed kickstarter because of the lack of gameplay footage?
I always thought it was weird that people would just give their money away to these game companies that had an idea. I never just give my money away. Now if these companies treated us as investors I would be investing my money into several of these games. I give you money to help you build your game and if your game becomes profitable you give me more money back in return for helping you. That is how it should work.
Its fine though because there now funded so the nay Sayers already lost their pessimistic view either way. And name me some games that failed and never released that were kick starters because im not seeing any. The game will survive and thrive the same way any other mmo does at release, marketing genius. Not sure what point your really trying to prove here to be honest, theirs not much of argument to be had it appears your one to argue for the sake of it like many here I suppose.
Its fine though because there now funded so the nay Sayers already lost their pessimistic view either way. And name me some games that failed and never released that were kick starters because im not seeing any. The game will survive and thrive the same way any other mmo does at release, marketing genius. Not sure what point your really trying to prove here to be honest, theirs not much of argument to be had it appears your one to argue for the sake of it like many here I suppose.
Failed pre-release:
GREEDMONGER! Pathfinder Online!!!
Have any actually successfully released yet? I can't think of any....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I have become jaded do to the gaming industry over the past few years. Like others have said, I don't pre-order, I don't back unfinished games, I typically don't buy a game until it has had all the DLC it's going to get released, the last patch put out, and I can get it all in a package deal. MMO's since they don't really have an end, I will wait at least 6 months and then take another look at it. That is how I bought the ME series, Dragon Age series, Skyrim, Fallout 3, and Fallout NV.
This may seem kind of harsh, but it has saved me lots of money, I get the best version of that particular game, and if it turns out to be a flop, I haven't lost anything to it. I will get into betas to try games, but even if I like it, I will wait up to 6 months before I buy the game. If it is a F2P, then most likely I never downloaded it in the first place.
Post edited by Gobstopper3D on
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
What I dont understand is calling people or the idea of supporting Kickstarter stupid or ridiculous.
Because - no offense intended, it is.
Why would you fund some healthy, likely educated individual in productive age with no material need at all? Why would you take the burdens of someone's business venture instead? Why would you support a business without having any idea of their business plan and finance? Why would you support a business without having any clues to evaluate whether the team can actually pull off any of what they are promising? Why would you give out money to someone who makes a fool of you?
The list can go on and on...
Because some people have money to burn? I don't do these things, I still don't see it as stupid. I don't even pre-order existing games. Yet the idea that it's some how foolish to support a kickstarter is foolish in itself. As it's presuming a person doesn't "have an idea of the plan or funds", when its right there in their face as they're pledging.
Lets look at Divinity 2, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Elite Dangerous, so on and so forth... Who was foolish in backing those titles? No one in my eyes, they actually brought some of my favorite games today to a reality. I actually thank those people for taking the risk for the rest who have enjoyed these games, as without them they wouldn't have been a reality.
As long as a person understands the risk, there's no foolishness at work in making such a decision.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
i have not..im sick of giving ppl money for unfinished games years before release or never being released..or being released and still not finished..theres just waaay too much it this nonsense going around nowa days
Then my answer to you guys is instead of bash the process let us invest in peace and bring the game to you so you can enjoy it also. I still dont see the point in bashing kickstarter, and those investing in games there when obviously it works and theres no risk to you.
What I dont understand is calling people or the idea of supporting Kickstarter stupid or ridiculous.
Because - no offense intended, it is.
Why would you fund some healthy, likely educated individual in productive age with no material need at all? Why would you take the burdens of someone's business venture instead? Why would you support a business without having any idea of their business plan and finance? Why would you support a business without having any clues to evaluate whether the team can actually pull off any of what they are promising? Why would you give out money to someone who makes a fool of you?
The list can go on and on...
Because some people have money to burn? I don't do these things, I still don't see it as stupid. I don't even pre-order existing games. Yet the idea that it's some how foolish to support a kickstarter is foolish in itself. As it's presuming a person doesn't "have an idea of the plan or funds", when its right there in their face as they're pledging.
Lets look at Divinity 2, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Elite Dangerous, so on and so forth... Who was foolish in backing those titles? No one in my eyes, they actually brought some of my favorite games today to a reality. I actually thank those people for taking the risk for the rest who have enjoyed these games, as without them they wouldn't have been a reality.
As long as a person understands the risk, there's no foolishness at work in making such a decision.
You can add dreamfall chapters to that list.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
I seen too many great ideas get ruined with bad decisions. Because of this I will never give money to an unfinished game. It looks good on paper but they can ruin it with a few decisions so its better to wait untill they are finished.
I will never again support a game through monetary means until it is released and I'm happy with the reviews. I've just been burnt one too many times and early access/beta is not important enough to me.
I like the concept of the game and I think everything they have on paper looks great. The problems is I would have hoped to have seen more gameplay footage to shell out money for development. I would like to see a game like this succeed. But if makes you wonder whether the combat will be good or bland. All that any of us have seen thus far is the PAX east video, and that't it. I wish they would have came with more gameplay footage before coming to kickstarter to ask for money. I think a lot of people are going to put their money into this and be severely disappointed in the final product they receive.
It's great that they posted new screenshots of images, but I want to see actual game combat against mobs, pvp etc. Until then, they are just taking people's money away on a dream. Does anyone else feel the same way and have not backed kickstarter because of the lack of gameplay footage?
I always thought it was weird that people would just give their money away to these game companies that had an idea. I never just give my money away. Now if these companies treated us as investors I would be investing my money into several of these games. I give you money to help you build your game and if your game becomes profitable you give me more money back in return for helping you. That is how it should work.
They are giving you money back...in rewards. Take a look at the rewards given for COE. At $25 you get a digital copy of the game. Not bad at all. $25 is a trip to McDonalds anymore.
I like the concept of the game and I think everything they have on paper looks great. The problems is I would have hoped to have seen more gameplay footage to shell out money for development. I would like to see a game like this succeed. But if makes you wonder whether the combat will be good or bland. All that any of us have seen thus far is the PAX east video, and that't it. I wish they would have came with more gameplay footage before coming to kickstarter to ask for money. I think a lot of people are going to put their money into this and be severely disappointed in the final product they receive.
It's great that they posted new screenshots of images, but I want to see actual game combat against mobs, pvp etc. Until then, they are just taking people's money away on a dream. Does anyone else feel the same way and have not backed kickstarter because of the lack of gameplay footage?
I always thought it was weird that people would just give their money away to these game companies that had an idea. I never just give my money away. Now if these companies treated us as investors I would be investing my money into several of these games. I give you money to help you build your game and if your game becomes profitable you give me more money back in return for helping you. That is how it should work.
They are giving you money back...in rewards. Take a look at the rewards given for COE. At $25 you get a digital copy of the game. Not bad at all. $25 is a trip to McDonalds anymore.
What a screaming deal for these companies, you give them cold hard cash they give you digital goodies. And that's ok if you are ok with that. I just think if some of these companies were to actually look at their supporters as actual investors that many people would give a lot more and games would get finished much quicker. Instead of people giving them $25 I think many people would be giving them $1000 or more if they knew they were getting their investment back plus some, but as long as people freely give these companies there money it'll never happen. These companies have a good gig going for them.
You can kinda compare this generosity of the gamer to a heroin addict. It's like if your town/area as gone completely dry and there is no heroin anywhere to be had, but you need that fix so dang bad that when the dealer comes by and says "hey I just maybe might be able to get some heroin a few states away but I need you to give me some money first so I can buy a car to get there" and they believe them because they need it so badly and the addict parts ways with their money. Gamers today want their next gaming fix so badly that they will part ways with their money on just hopes alone.
Now I love gaming too, its why were here right? but I am not going to blindly give my money away. Not even in trade for promised digital goodies. But I would in a heartbeat invest my money if there was a contract between me and the developers that if I invest X amount I will receive back X amount. Of course there can be contingencies and the developers will need to be in the green before such a return on investment happens.
I choose not to give my money away but if you do that's ok, its your money. I just hope one day companies start to create investor programs so we can all benefit from successful games and invest is games ideas we believe in. They'll get their games finished quicker from more money coming in and us investors can make some money too. Win win...
Comments
-Most MMOs today suck
-CoE looks like their goal is to not suck
-No big publishers are putting in the effort to make a non-sucking game
-I've seen enough to believe this is a genuine effort and not a scam
-I have cash to spare I wouldn't miss if I lost it trying to help them
- /monies
WIth that much money at risk, the big publishers will only back projects they think can get them a significant Return on Investment.
Combine this with the perception that MMO's are the "Highest Risk" games and you can see why Major studios are moving away from them. Thats why there are NO big western MMOs coming any time soon, the biggest ones came not from major publishers, but from Kickstarters.
Now a smaller indie studio cant afford to take that risk on, so they turn to a different form of funding.
Sure there are some who abuse it, and sure its buyer beware. But thats why kickstarter exists. Its not stupid or Ridiculous, its a product of the times.
But through pure desperation to stimulate change they throw money at such projects even though these projects are just not feasible because of resources, time or developer incompetence.
How many released kickstarded mmorpgs do you see since the inception of the kickstarter concept? None. and it remains to be see if the ones in development will actually reach their potential. but what we do know there is a whole string of abandoned or scam projects that have crashed in burned.
Its not working "your" way either.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Really, get off your high horse/put your blinders off or w/e...
You know, the final state of the development processes where the software is ready to generate income?
All those games up there actually RELEASED and generated profit, it was because of consumer behaviour that they failed as it should be.
But think about this, if games like the matrix and war hammer on-line with a mainstream audience count in the 100 thousands, What hope does a kickstarter campaign have with only 8,580 interested parties have for long term financial security?
lets say for argument sake every one of those backers gets 10 of his or her friends to join that's still trivial compared to those games above peak numbers.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
GREEDMONGER!
Pathfinder Online!!!
Have any actually successfully released yet? I can't think of any....
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
This may seem kind of harsh, but it has saved me lots of money, I get the best version of that particular game, and if it turns out to be a flop, I haven't lost anything to it. I will get into betas to try games, but even if I like it, I will wait up to 6 months before I buy the game. If it is a F2P, then most likely I never downloaded it in the first place.
I'm not an IT Specialist, Game Developer, or Clairvoyant in real life, but like others on here, I play one on the internet.
Lets look at Divinity 2, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2, Elite Dangerous, so on and so forth... Who was foolish in backing those titles? No one in my eyes, they actually brought some of my favorite games today to a reality. I actually thank those people for taking the risk for the rest who have enjoyed these games, as without them they wouldn't have been a reality.
As long as a person understands the risk, there's no foolishness at work in making such a decision.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
You can kinda compare this generosity of the gamer to a heroin addict. It's like if your town/area as gone completely dry and there is no heroin anywhere to be had, but you need that fix so dang bad that when the dealer comes by and says "hey I just maybe might be able to get some heroin a few states away but I need you to give me some money first so I can buy a car to get there" and they believe them because they need it so badly and the addict parts ways with their money. Gamers today want their next gaming fix so badly that they will part ways with their money on just hopes alone.
Now I love gaming too, its why were here right? but I am not going to blindly give my money away. Not even in trade for promised digital goodies. But I would in a heartbeat invest my money if there was a contract between me and the developers that if I invest X amount I will receive back X amount. Of course there can be contingencies and the developers will need to be in the green before such a return on investment happens.
I choose not to give my money away but if you do that's ok, its your money. I just hope one day companies start to create investor programs so we can all benefit from successful games and invest is games ideas we believe in. They'll get their games finished quicker from more money coming in and us investors can make some money too. Win win...