I played Darkfall from beta until it closed. It took me about 9 months to become a "factor", longer to become "good" and win the majority of my duels.
If it was that easy for you to learn, surely I'd recognize your name...
Who were you?
My guild built the first tier 4 city on first Darkfall game EU. Before all the zergs.
We never lost a fight during that time and we left when we understood the developers were corrupted and that the grind was awful. Some of the guildies continued to play and started The Blackhand Order.
We learned PvP quite fast since the PvP was quite easy to master. Our many years in UO:R as a guild learned us a lot about strategy and communication in team fights.
Our Crafter that built the city had the name Many Marsh.
I find that tab target games tend to be more complex. I probably prefer the action combat system, but no game has been able to provide the same amount of technical play thus far. Mmo pvp should focus on burst coordination, swaps, cc/dispels, interrupts, proper cd management, positioning, etc. Basically being completely aware of the fight while still maintaining good dps or healing.
I played Darkfall from beta until it closed. It took me about 9 months to become a "factor", longer to become "good" and win the majority of my duels.
If it was that easy for you to learn, surely I'd recognize your name...
Who were you?
My guild built the first tier 4 city on first Darkfall game EU. Before all the zergs.
We never lost a fight during that time and we left when we understood the developers were corrupted and that the grind was awful. Some of the guildies continued to play and started The Blackhand Order.
We learned PvP quite fast since the PvP was quite easy to master. Our many years in UO:R as a guild learned us a lot about strategy and communication in team fights.
Our Crafter that built the city had the name Many Marsh.
I remember Blackhand: they were unimpressive. You claiming they were among those EU clans more vested in the city building grind than pvping reinforces my memory of them being unimpressive.
The only video I could find by a Blackhand member was of DF UW where 7 of them "ambush" 2 people and spend days trying to finish him. As i recall that accurately represents the mentality of Blackhand from original darkfall.
I also noticed you never actually said who you were.
I think i've heard and seen enough to know how well you "learned" to pvp in darkfall to gauge your knowledge of what it took to be skilled in that game. Thanks.
Opinion isn't fact. Especially when you are confusing the skill of aiming with the skill of using abilities once a target has been acquired.
Does it take more skill to tab target then it does to manually aim? I think you would be hard pressed to argue that it does if purely talking what it takes to acquire a target. Why?
One is an automatic, system handled process and the other is a player driven system that rewards player skill. One requires the pressing of a single button to acquire the target, the other requires the combination of mouse movement and timing.
If you want to talk about the complexities of combat AFTER the targeting mechanic you might have a point but seeing as we are not talking about anything other then targeting it just seems you are constantly missing the point of the discussion.
To give you an analogy, does it take more driving skill to drive a a car with automatic gears or manual? An automatic car is tab targeting, manual is player aiming.
Why don't you make it easier for you since you have no clue of what UO:R PvP demanded of it's players. Since you have no clue why do you claim that tab targeting by default is the less player skill demanding?
UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is, it was skillful cause you needed superior timing of spells and strategy and it was a real time action based PvP and doing a single thing wrong during a 15 minute combat session could be the reason why my team lost.
I suggest you learn more about games like UO:R before you continue this discussion.
I played UO, Darkfall, Mortal Online and loads of other MMO PvP games with different PvPÅ settings and the by far hardest one to master was UO:R. Darkfall was a walk in the park compared.
How about you stop telling me what to do, what I know or how great certain games are and actually stick to the thread topic and respond to that?
I mean you have already answered the question yourself and proved yourself wrong so stop trying to argue points that have been made by no one other then yourself.
"UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is".
Correct. Tab targeting does not require the same level of skill to achieve a successful hit as games that require aiming because with tab targeting the system does the aiming for you.
That is the point, that is what I and others have stated and that is what you have stated. What the hell is the rest of your several pages of rambles got to do with the fact this game is not using tab targeting because the developers recognize that players aiming requires more skill then tab targeting!
"tab target combat" ... let this piece of history die, please... thanks
Another one that never played the best MMO PvP game ever, UO:R.
Inexperienced forum warriors is in my eyes very pathetic.
lol i bet i was playing UO when you was still in fathers balls, was playing it since 10.10.1997 for more than 12 years with some breaks i still return for few months to check official servers but all these new expansions made it kinda shitty, was playing on Baja server but since im from Europe i had kinda insane lags with dial-up later on for fun i tried JPN server Asuka and KR Baekdu but these guys was rly hardcore for my ping impossible to do any serious PVP with my mage so i moved to EU one Drachenfels got maxed mage,warrior and treasure hunter/fisher over there...
im playing MMOs my whole life, soon it will be over 20 years with MMO genre, so calling me "Inexperienced forum warriors" i can only laugh.
Opinion isn't fact. Especially when you are confusing the skill of aiming with the skill of using abilities once a target has been acquired.
Does it take more skill to tab target then it does to manually aim? I think you would be hard pressed to argue that it does if purely talking what it takes to acquire a target. Why?
One is an automatic, system handled process and the other is a player driven system that rewards player skill. One requires the pressing of a single button to acquire the target, the other requires the combination of mouse movement and timing.
If you want to talk about the complexities of combat AFTER the targeting mechanic you might have a point but seeing as we are not talking about anything other then targeting it just seems you are constantly missing the point of the discussion.
To give you an analogy, does it take more driving skill to drive a a car with automatic gears or manual? An automatic car is tab targeting, manual is player aiming.
Why don't you make it easier for you since you have no clue of what UO:R PvP demanded of it's players. Since you have no clue why do you claim that tab targeting by default is the less player skill demanding?
UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is, it was skillful cause you needed superior timing of spells and strategy and it was a real time action based PvP and doing a single thing wrong during a 15 minute combat session could be the reason why my team lost.
I suggest you learn more about games like UO:R before you continue this discussion.
I played UO, Darkfall, Mortal Online and loads of other MMO PvP games with different PvPÅ settings and the by far hardest one to master was UO:R. Darkfall was a walk in the park compared.
How about you stop telling me what to do, what I know or how great certain games are and actually stick to the thread topic and respond to that?
I mean you have already answered the question yourself and proved yourself wrong so stop trying to argue points that have been made by no one other then yourself.
"UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is".
Correct. Tab targeting does not require the same level of skill to achieve a successful hit as games that require aiming because with tab targeting the system does the aiming for you.
That is the point, that is what I and others have stated and that is what you have stated. What the hell is the rest of your several pages of rambles got to do with the fact this game is not using tab targeting because the developers recognize that players aiming requires more skill then tab targeting!
You just don't understand that aiming isn't the only feature in PvP that take skills. You make it easy for you by claiming this and it tell me you have no experience in how hard a well designed tab targeting PvP system can be to master.
UO:R tab targeting PvP system took a lot longer to master then any aim based MMO game out there. Lacking experience in games like UO:R disqualify any argument you have since how could you compare aim based PvP games with the hardest tab targeting game if you haven't played them both.
Aim based games is easy mode especially the team fighting since you have no clue what all the other players around you are doing at any given moment. It is a chaotic mess at best with very little overview. UO:R gave on screen at any given moment a full overview of all players actions. On all those variables all players had to react and perform in milliseconds with the proper healing or attack spell, timing was of the essence.
So aiming is one skill, on that i agree, but try to understand that aim in MMO games is just one of all the skills you need to master depending on how the combat system works. Darkfall was a very easy game to master compared to the hardest tab targeting game UO:R.
Opinion isn't fact. Especially when you are confusing the skill of aiming with the skill of using abilities once a target has been acquired.
Does it take more skill to tab target then it does to manually aim? I think you would be hard pressed to argue that it does if purely talking what it takes to acquire a target. Why?
One is an automatic, system handled process and the other is a player driven system that rewards player skill. One requires the pressing of a single button to acquire the target, the other requires the combination of mouse movement and timing.
If you want to talk about the complexities of combat AFTER the targeting mechanic you might have a point but seeing as we are not talking about anything other then targeting it just seems you are constantly missing the point of the discussion.
To give you an analogy, does it take more driving skill to drive a a car with automatic gears or manual? An automatic car is tab targeting, manual is player aiming.
Why don't you make it easier for you since you have no clue of what UO:R PvP demanded of it's players. Since you have no clue why do you claim that tab targeting by default is the less player skill demanding?
UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is, it was skillful cause you needed superior timing of spells and strategy and it was a real time action based PvP and doing a single thing wrong during a 15 minute combat session could be the reason why my team lost.
I suggest you learn more about games like UO:R before you continue this discussion.
I played UO, Darkfall, Mortal Online and loads of other MMO PvP games with different PvPÅ settings and the by far hardest one to master was UO:R. Darkfall was a walk in the park compared.
How about you stop telling me what to do, what I know or how great certain games are and actually stick to the thread topic and respond to that?
I mean you have already answered the question yourself and proved yourself wrong so stop trying to argue points that have been made by no one other then yourself.
"UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is".
Correct. Tab targeting does not require the same level of skill to achieve a successful hit as games that require aiming because with tab targeting the system does the aiming for you.
That is the point, that is what I and others have stated and that is what you have stated. What the hell is the rest of your several pages of rambles got to do with the fact this game is not using tab targeting because the developers recognize that players aiming requires more skill then tab targeting!
You just don't understand that aiming isn't the only feature in PvP that take skills. You make it easy for you by claiming this and it tell me you have no experience in how hard a well designed tab targeting PvP system can be to master.
UO:R tab targeting PvP system took a lot longer to master then any aim based MMO game out there. Lacking experience in games like UO:R disqualify any argument you have since how could you compare aim based PvP games with the hardest tab targeting game if you haven't played them both.
Aim based games is easy mode especially the team fighting since you have no clue what all the other players around you are doing at any given moment. It is a chaotic mess at best with very little overview. UO:R gave on screen at any given moment a full overview of all players actions. On all those variables all players had to react and perform in milliseconds with the proper healing or attack spell, timing was of the essence.
So aiming is one skill, on that i agree, but try to understand that aim in MMO games is just one of all the skills you need to master depending on how the combat system works. Darkfall was a very easy game to master compared to the hardest tab targeting game UO:R.
You have shown your own lack of skill here.
"You dont know what those around you are doing"
Well if your playing a game like that it's your job to know what's happening around you and to coordinate your guild/team
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
Opinion isn't fact. Especially when you are confusing the skill of aiming with the skill of using abilities once a target has been acquired.
Does it take more skill to tab target then it does to manually aim? I think you would be hard pressed to argue that it does if purely talking what it takes to acquire a target. Why?
One is an automatic, system handled process and the other is a player driven system that rewards player skill. One requires the pressing of a single button to acquire the target, the other requires the combination of mouse movement and timing.
If you want to talk about the complexities of combat AFTER the targeting mechanic you might have a point but seeing as we are not talking about anything other then targeting it just seems you are constantly missing the point of the discussion.
To give you an analogy, does it take more driving skill to drive a a car with automatic gears or manual? An automatic car is tab targeting, manual is player aiming.
Why don't you make it easier for you since you have no clue of what UO:R PvP demanded of it's players. Since you have no clue why do you claim that tab targeting by default is the less player skill demanding?
UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is, it was skillful cause you needed superior timing of spells and strategy and it was a real time action based PvP and doing a single thing wrong during a 15 minute combat session could be the reason why my team lost.
I suggest you learn more about games like UO:R before you continue this discussion.
I played UO, Darkfall, Mortal Online and loads of other MMO PvP games with different PvPÅ settings and the by far hardest one to master was UO:R. Darkfall was a walk in the park compared.
How about you stop telling me what to do, what I know or how great certain games are and actually stick to the thread topic and respond to that?
I mean you have already answered the question yourself and proved yourself wrong so stop trying to argue points that have been made by no one other then yourself.
"UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is".
Correct. Tab targeting does not require the same level of skill to achieve a successful hit as games that require aiming because with tab targeting the system does the aiming for you.
That is the point, that is what I and others have stated and that is what you have stated. What the hell is the rest of your several pages of rambles got to do with the fact this game is not using tab targeting because the developers recognize that players aiming requires more skill then tab targeting!
You just don't understand that aiming isn't the only feature in PvP that take skills. You make it easy for you by claiming this and it tell me you have no experience in how hard a well designed tab targeting PvP system can be to master.
UO:R tab targeting PvP system took a lot longer to master then any aim based MMO game out there. Lacking experience in games like UO:R disqualify any argument you have since how could you compare aim based PvP games with the hardest tab targeting game if you haven't played them both.
Aim based games is easy mode especially the team fighting since you have no clue what all the other players around you are doing at any given moment. It is a chaotic mess at best with very little overview. UO:R gave on screen at any given moment a full overview of all players actions. On all those variables all players had to react and perform in milliseconds with the proper healing or attack spell, timing was of the essence.
So aiming is one skill, on that i agree, but try to understand that aim in MMO games is just one of all the skills you need to master depending on how the combat system works. Darkfall was a very easy game to master compared to the hardest tab targeting game UO:R.
You have shown your own lack of skill here.
"You dont know what those around you are doing"
Well if your playing a game like that it's your job to know what's happening around you and to coordinate your guild/team
Different MMO games give different overviews on what is going on. That is basics. Darkfall and similar games couldn't give the same information to the player by watching the screen as UO:R managed to do. Teamfight information to the player were low in games like Darkfall and cooperative gameplay were lacking more then it did in UO:R.
You not understanding this inform me you lack a lot of experience of these different games and can't have a opinion on it.
My guilds skill in Darkfall was very good since we never lost a fight. We had all Rubaiyat and some cities on main land before leaving the game. Darkfall was a very easy game to compete in compared to a game like UO:R.
Opinion isn't fact. Especially when you are confusing the skill of aiming with the skill of using abilities once a target has been acquired.
Does it take more skill to tab target then it does to manually aim? I think you would be hard pressed to argue that it does if purely talking what it takes to acquire a target. Why?
One is an automatic, system handled process and the other is a player driven system that rewards player skill. One requires the pressing of a single button to acquire the target, the other requires the combination of mouse movement and timing.
If you want to talk about the complexities of combat AFTER the targeting mechanic you might have a point but seeing as we are not talking about anything other then targeting it just seems you are constantly missing the point of the discussion.
To give you an analogy, does it take more driving skill to drive a a car with automatic gears or manual? An automatic car is tab targeting, manual is player aiming.
Why don't you make it easier for you since you have no clue of what UO:R PvP demanded of it's players. Since you have no clue why do you claim that tab targeting by default is the less player skill demanding?
UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is, it was skillful cause you needed superior timing of spells and strategy and it was a real time action based PvP and doing a single thing wrong during a 15 minute combat session could be the reason why my team lost.
I suggest you learn more about games like UO:R before you continue this discussion.
I played UO, Darkfall, Mortal Online and loads of other MMO PvP games with different PvPÅ settings and the by far hardest one to master was UO:R. Darkfall was a walk in the park compared.
How about you stop telling me what to do, what I know or how great certain games are and actually stick to the thread topic and respond to that?
I mean you have already answered the question yourself and proved yourself wrong so stop trying to argue points that have been made by no one other then yourself.
"UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is".
Correct. Tab targeting does not require the same level of skill to achieve a successful hit as games that require aiming because with tab targeting the system does the aiming for you.
That is the point, that is what I and others have stated and that is what you have stated. What the hell is the rest of your several pages of rambles got to do with the fact this game is not using tab targeting because the developers recognize that players aiming requires more skill then tab targeting!
You just don't understand that aiming isn't the only feature in PvP that take skills. You make it easy for you by claiming this and it tell me you have no experience in how hard a well designed tab targeting PvP system can be to master.
UO:R tab targeting PvP system took a lot longer to master then any aim based MMO game out there. Lacking experience in games like UO:R disqualify any argument you have since how could you compare aim based PvP games with the hardest tab targeting game if you haven't played them both.
Aim based games is easy mode especially the team fighting since you have no clue what all the other players around you are doing at any given moment. It is a chaotic mess at best with very little overview. UO:R gave on screen at any given moment a full overview of all players actions. On all those variables all players had to react and perform in milliseconds with the proper healing or attack spell, timing was of the essence.
So aiming is one skill, on that i agree, but try to understand that aim in MMO games is just one of all the skills you need to master depending on how the combat system works. Darkfall was a very easy game to master compared to the hardest tab targeting game UO:R.
You have shown your own lack of skill here.
"You dont know what those around you are doing"
Well if your playing a game like that it's your job to know what's happening around you and to coordinate your guild/team
Different MMO games give different overviews on what is going on. That is basics. Darkfall and similar games couldn't give the same information to the player by watching the screen as UO:R managed to do. Teamfight information to the player were low in games like Darkfall and cooperative gameplay were lacking more then it did in UO:R.
You not understanding this inform me you lack a lot of experience of these different games and can't have a opinion on it.
My guilds skill in Darkfall was very good since we never lost a fight. We had all Rubaiyat and some cities on main land before leaving the game. Darkfall was a very easy game to compete in compared to a game like UO:R.
You claim your guild was good but when challenged by Vucar you didn't give information.
And you misunderstood my post. By needing all the information you say UO:R gave you means you are not actually tactically "aware" yourself. Therefore your lack of skill in coordination and lack of awareness due to needing thst information tells me all I need to know about your skill
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
Tab-targeting combat requires a different skill set than "aim-based action combat".
In a complex tab-target game, a skilled tab-targeter will wipe the floor with a skilled action-combat pro. The reverse will apply if they face each other in an action-combat game.
IMHO, tab-targeting is hard to learn well and even harder to master. Action-combat is easier to learn but some people will never be able to master it, because they simply lack the eye-to-hand co-ordination and reflexes.
One type of skill is not "superior" to another, different people just prefer different play styles.
Opinion isn't fact. Especially when you are confusing the skill of aiming with the skill of using abilities once a target has been acquired.
Does it take more skill to tab target then it does to manually aim? I think you would be hard pressed to argue that it does if purely talking what it takes to acquire a target. Why?
One is an automatic, system handled process and the other is a player driven system that rewards player skill. One requires the pressing of a single button to acquire the target, the other requires the combination of mouse movement and timing.
If you want to talk about the complexities of combat AFTER the targeting mechanic you might have a point but seeing as we are not talking about anything other then targeting it just seems you are constantly missing the point of the discussion.
To give you an analogy, does it take more driving skill to drive a a car with automatic gears or manual? An automatic car is tab targeting, manual is player aiming.
Why don't you make it easier for you since you have no clue of what UO:R PvP demanded of it's players. Since you have no clue why do you claim that tab targeting by default is the less player skill demanding?
UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is, it was skillful cause you needed superior timing of spells and strategy and it was a real time action based PvP and doing a single thing wrong during a 15 minute combat session could be the reason why my team lost.
I suggest you learn more about games like UO:R before you continue this discussion.
I played UO, Darkfall, Mortal Online and loads of other MMO PvP games with different PvPÅ settings and the by far hardest one to master was UO:R. Darkfall was a walk in the park compared.
How about you stop telling me what to do, what I know or how great certain games are and actually stick to the thread topic and respond to that?
I mean you have already answered the question yourself and proved yourself wrong so stop trying to argue points that have been made by no one other then yourself.
"UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is".
Correct. Tab targeting does not require the same level of skill to achieve a successful hit as games that require aiming because with tab targeting the system does the aiming for you.
That is the point, that is what I and others have stated and that is what you have stated. What the hell is the rest of your several pages of rambles got to do with the fact this game is not using tab targeting because the developers recognize that players aiming requires more skill then tab targeting!
You just don't understand that aiming isn't the only feature in PvP that take skills. You make it easy for you by claiming this and it tell me you have no experience in how hard a well designed tab targeting PvP system can be to master.
UO:R tab targeting PvP system took a lot longer to master then any aim based MMO game out there. Lacking experience in games like UO:R disqualify any argument you have since how could you compare aim based PvP games with the hardest tab targeting game if you haven't played them both.
Aim based games is easy mode especially the team fighting since you have no clue what all the other players around you are doing at any given moment. It is a chaotic mess at best with very little overview. UO:R gave on screen at any given moment a full overview of all players actions. On all those variables all players had to react and perform in milliseconds with the proper healing or attack spell, timing was of the essence.
So aiming is one skill, on that i agree, but try to understand that aim in MMO games is just one of all the skills you need to master depending on how the combat system works. Darkfall was a very easy game to master compared to the hardest tab targeting game UO:R.
You have shown your own lack of skill here.
"You dont know what those around you are doing"
Well if your playing a game like that it's your job to know what's happening around you and to coordinate your guild/team
Different MMO games give different overviews on what is going on. That is basics. Darkfall and similar games couldn't give the same information to the player by watching the screen as UO:R managed to do. Teamfight information to the player were low in games like Darkfall and cooperative gameplay were lacking more then it did in UO:R.
You not understanding this inform me you lack a lot of experience of these different games and can't have a opinion on it.
My guilds skill in Darkfall was very good since we never lost a fight. We had all Rubaiyat and some cities on main land before leaving the game. Darkfall was a very easy game to compete in compared to a game like UO:R.
You claim your guild was good but when challenged by Vucar you didn't give information.
And you misunderstood my post. By needing all the information you say UO:R gave you means you are not actually tactically "aware" yourself. Therefore your lack of skill in coordination and lack of awareness due to needing thst information tells me all I need to know about your skill
LOL challenged.
I couldn't care less what some wannabe forum warriors over here believe about me or my guild. Having one of the small islands in Darkfall for ourself and never loosing one battle during our time tell me we did pretty good. That we succeeded to create the first tier 4 city on early Darkfall EU before all the zergs tell me we were skilled not just in PvP but also as a guild did very well in other areas of the game.
I think action combat, however, needs to be broken down into a couple of categories.
There's the absurd flippity hoppity dash somersault backlflip while throwing a sword in a circle that comes back to your hand action combat. BDO and Archeage fall into this category.
Then there's the "wherever you point your weapon or spell is what you hit" kind of action combat without all the ridiculous whiz bang pow stuff imported from the JRPG genre. Darkfall, Age of Conan and TESO fall into this category.
I'm pretty sure that CoE is more the second variety than the first, but I could be wrong.
I never played BDO, but archeage is def not action combat its tab target, auto attack. Age of Conan is def not action combat, its tab target auto attack, with hot bars. TESO is not action combat either, it is basically tab target, put you point ur mouse to target the thing instead of tab.
You just don't understand that aiming isn't the only feature in PvP that take skills.....
And you continue to argue about something NO ONE ELSE is discussing.
The discussion is about the fact that COE is not using tab targeting.
Stay focused on the thread not trying to persuade everyone you were skilled at PvP in an ancient game.
Read the thread from beginning and even you might understand that the discussion is relevant.
Yeah your right ancient games sucks cause they are ancient, :pleased:.
YOUR posts have from the start gone off on a wild tangent claiming that the developers don't know what they are doing because UOR was so complex and you were so good at UOR which means you know more about what skill is because you were so good ar UOR and that game needed lots of skills and because you were so good at it that means you know what skills are and tab targeting requires so much more skill then aiming because UOR was requires so much more skills and because you were so skilled and UOR required so much skill you are better positioned then the devs are to comment on it tab tageting requires more skill then aiming.....
Yeah, 2 pages of bollox summarized above.
The act of tab targeting a player requires you to ..... press the tab key....target acquired. This is a single action and is 100% successful regardless of player skill. The act of aiming at a player requires you to .... move the mouse, anticipate direction of movement, time the action key. This is an ongoing action and success is reliant on player skill.
BIG f'ing difference in skill needed to get your attack to land.
If you want to argue anything other then 'this game will not use tab targeting' start another thread but stop going on about all the other shit that isn't relevant to the OP's question.
Posters in this thread seem to be confusing "skill" with "strategy." Although the two can certainly overlap that gray area, action combat tends to be more skill based, whereas tab targeting is predominantly strategy oriented.
I never understood why people think clicking and moving the mouse is skill lol. There is def strategy in games, but skill no. I don't think skill = moving a mouse or typing. I think there is skill in eve online, or everquest, because you have to get a large number of people to work together, and that def takes skill, and strategy. First person shooting a pixel with a mouse is not skill. It would be equal to saying that you are a skillful pilot because you can fly in a flight simulator, and you could get a pilot license just based on that.
The act of tab targeting a player requires you to ..... press the tab key....target acquired. This is a single action and is 100% successful regardless of player skill. The act of aiming at a player requires you to .... move the mouse, anticipate direction of movement, time the action key. This is an ongoing action and success is reliant on player skill.
No denying that active aiming requires more skill with mouse and keyboard - I am not going to argue that.
I do want to point out that TAB targetted games in the past - for example Everquest 1 - did have die rolls to determine hits, parry, blocks, dodge, misses - so even if you had a target selected - by no means was it a 100% successful action - as you could still miss, fizzle, and the target could parry, block, dodge etc....
The specific action I was trying to explain was the acquisition of a target rather then what happens once that target has been acquired but I appreciate the clarification.
Unfortunately some people in this thread have been unable to separate the mode of acquisition and the actions taken once that has been achieved. The complexity of available options and the skill a player can use once a target has been acquired can vary depending on the game. You can have a tab target game with 50 options to use against an acquired target or an aiming game that has just 1 or vice versa.
I think action combat, however, needs to be broken down into a couple of categories.
There's the absurd flippity hoppity dash somersault backlflip while throwing a sword in a circle that comes back to your hand action combat. BDO and Archeage fall into this category.
Then there's the "wherever you point your weapon or spell is what you hit" kind of action combat without all the ridiculous whiz bang pow stuff imported from the JRPG genre. Darkfall, Age of Conan and TESO fall into this category.
I'm pretty sure that CoE is more the second variety than the first, but I could be wrong.
I never played BDO, but archeage is def not action combat its tab target, auto attack. Age of Conan is def not action combat, its tab target auto attack, with hot bars. TESO is not action combat either, it is basically tab target, put you point ur mouse to target the thing instead of tab.
Action combat is like Tera, or dark fall.
As someone who has played Age of Conan for eight years, it is an action/tab hybrid. You do not ever have to target anyone if you are a melee character, but you do have to target if you're a caster or ranged character. AoC never has, and never will, have auto attack. This is why most people in AoC tell new players to play a melee character, because there's so much more to do on them.
Archeage, ehhh, really didn't research it. Saw a couple of videos and it has the quick dashing style of movement that suggested action combat. It's a pay to win mess, so I don't spend any time thinking about it.
yea it all depends on the game. For example I believe B&S took more skill then just about any game on the market. But WOW and ESO are kinda similiar with ESO slightly leading on required skill. Meanwhile Darkfall is just a who is quicker then the other person which doesn't really require much mental skill. Maybe a game like Path of Exile requires you to both be quick thinking and skilled at aiming. Mental ability and reflexes are combined skills but when reflexes trump mental ability then its a total waste. Both should be equally necessary in a mmo. Which is why I think B&S had a good balance of mental and physical skill.
I couldn't care less what some wannabe forum warriors over here believe about me or my guild. Having one of the small islands in Darkfall for ourself and never loosing one battle during our time tell me we did pretty good. That we succeeded to create the first tier 4 city on early Darkfall EU before all the zergs tell me we were skilled not just in PvP but also as a guild did very well in other areas of the game.
Just out of curiosity, did you even play UO:R?
I'm not sure what fantasy memory you have of EU, but the entire first year was the era of zerg alliances like Hyperion, CotC and DUSK, the latter of which included Blackhand, BB4L, and SoT.
"Never losing one battle during our time" lol.
I was in Covert Operations. CO consistently beat Blackhand Order, along with the zergs that DUSK alliance brought out when ever anyone made landfall on Ruby. I would never make such a ridiculous claim that CO never lost though; everyone lost in pvp at some point, especially me in those for 9 months -- because thats how you learned to pvp.
We just never lost to terribles like Blackhand.
You keep telling other people in this thread they cannot compare tab target to twitch pvp like darkfall because they have "no experience" with "skillful tab target". I find this ironic coming from someone who so proudly claims association with some of the worst pvpers CO ever fought.
You really have no business claiming "experience" in twitch pvp anymore than a cat falling into a bath tub can say they have "experience" with swimming.
I couldn't care less what some wannabe forum warriors over here believe about me or my guild. Having one of the small islands in Darkfall for ourself and never loosing one battle during our time tell me we did pretty good. That we succeeded to create the first tier 4 city on early Darkfall EU before all the zergs tell me we were skilled not just in PvP but also as a guild did very well in other areas of the game.
Just out of curiosity, did you even play UO:R?
I'm not sure what fantasy memory you have of EU, but the entire first year was the era of zerg alliances like Hyperion, CotC and DUSK, the latter of which included Blackhand, BB4L, and SoT.
"Never losing one battle during our time" lol.
I was in Covert Operations. CO consistently beat Blackhand Order, along with the zergs that DUSK alliance brought out when ever anyone made landfall on Ruby. I would never make such a ridiculous claim that CO never lost though; everyone lost in pvp at some point, especially me in those for 9 months -- because thats how you learned to pvp.
We just never lost to terribles like Blackhand.
You keep telling other people in this thread they cannot compare tab target to twitch pvp like darkfall because they have "no experience" with "skillful tab target". I find this ironic coming from someone who so proudly claims association with some of the worst pvpers CO ever fought.
You really have no business claiming "experience" in twitch pvp anymore than a cat falling into a bath tub can say they have "experience" with swimming.
We were BB4L and we never lost a fight except when fighting the cheaters from the Mercs. We never lost a city and when we left we had the best crafter in Many Marsh and the first created tier 4 city.
We had poor alliance guilds like the oldtimers so we alliad the russians and took over Ruba with Cactus and later on also some mainland holdings to the south (holdings we took from that horribly bad mainland zerg Coalition of the Chilling). Black hand Order did very good in Darkfall 2, a game they dominated without being a zerg, and your guilds performance was very poor in DF1 and you never managed to take a holding on Ruba as long as we were there.
You guys didn't even have a city which say a lot what no namers your guild was. I guess you were in one of the terrible mainland zergs that were beaten every time they entered Ruba. So many weak players in DF that thought numbers was the only sollution.
I couldn't care less what some wannabe forum warriors over here believe about me or my guild. Having one of the small islands in Darkfall for ourself and never loosing one battle during our time tell me we did pretty good. That we succeeded to create the first tier 4 city on early Darkfall EU before all the zergs tell me we were skilled not just in PvP but also as a guild did very well in other areas of the game.
Just out of curiosity, did you even play UO:R?
I'm not sure what fantasy memory you have of EU, but the entire first year was the era of zerg alliances like Hyperion, CotC and DUSK, the latter of which included Blackhand, BB4L, and SoT.
"Never losing one battle during our time" lol.
I was in Covert Operations. CO consistently beat Blackhand Order, along with the zergs that DUSK alliance brought out when ever anyone made landfall on Ruby. I would never make such a ridiculous claim that CO never lost though; everyone lost in pvp at some point, especially me in those for 9 months -- because thats how you learned to pvp.
We just never lost to terribles like Blackhand.
You keep telling other people in this thread they cannot compare tab target to twitch pvp like darkfall because they have "no experience" with "skillful tab target". I find this ironic coming from someone who so proudly claims association with some of the worst pvpers CO ever fought.
You really have no business claiming "experience" in twitch pvp anymore than a cat falling into a bath tub can say they have "experience" with swimming.
We were BB4L and we never lost a fight except when fighting the cheaters from the Mercs. We never lost a city and when we left we had the best crafter in Many Marsh and the first created tier 4 city.
We had poor alliance guilds like the oldtimers so we alliad the russians and took over Ruba with Cactus and later on also some mainland holdings to the south (holdings we took from that horribly bad mainland zerg Coalition of the Chilling). Black hand Order did very good in Darkfall 2, a game they dominated without being a zerg, and your guilds performance was very poor in DF1 and you never managed to take a holding on Ruba as long as we were there.
You guys didn't even have a city which say a lot what no namers your guild was. I guess you were in one of the terrible mainland zergs that were beaten every time they entered Ruba. So many weak players in DF that thought numbers was the only sollution for them.
Were a lot of rumours you guys exploited and hacked like the Merc did. Performing being a cheater is not performing at all.
Zionburns - As i remember CO was known for exploiting and hacking too, especially the mount through wall exploit, didnt you have a couple who got banned for aimbotting too?
Bojangles - Covert Ops got spanked in df1 and UW so they mad, Aimers sucked always and he young so he trying hard, Arkillion rampant hacker so he trying to get attention. This thread is gold.
Erock - The second reason is you are a huge hypocrite when it comes to exploiting, your clan lived in the Dustbowl in UW and would log off and log back in to lose the dust effect.
Comments
If it was that easy for you to learn, surely I'd recognize your name...
Who were you?
We never lost a fight during that time and we left when we understood the developers were corrupted and that the grind was awful. Some of the guildies continued to play and started The Blackhand Order.
We learned PvP quite fast since the PvP was quite easy to master. Our many years in UO:R as a guild learned us a lot about strategy and communication in team fights.
Our Crafter that built the city had the name Many Marsh.
The only video I could find by a Blackhand member was of DF UW where 7 of them "ambush" 2 people and spend days trying to finish him. As i recall that accurately represents the mentality of Blackhand from original darkfall.
I also noticed you never actually said who you were.
I think i've heard and seen enough to know how well you "learned" to pvp in darkfall to gauge your knowledge of what it took to be skilled in that game. Thanks.
I mean you have already answered the question yourself and proved yourself wrong so stop trying to argue points that have been made by no one other then yourself.
"UO:R was not skillful in the way aiming (Darkfall) is".
Correct. Tab targeting does not require the same level of skill to achieve a successful hit as games that require aiming because with tab targeting the system does the aiming for you.
That is the point, that is what I and others have stated and that is what you have stated. What the hell is the rest of your several pages of rambles got to do with the fact this game is not using tab targeting because the developers recognize that players aiming requires more skill then tab targeting!
im playing MMOs my whole life, soon it will be over 20 years with MMO genre, so calling me "Inexperienced forum warriors" i can only laugh.
UO:R tab targeting PvP system took a lot longer to master then any aim based MMO game out there. Lacking experience in games like UO:R disqualify any argument you have since how could you compare aim based PvP games with the hardest tab targeting game if you haven't played them both.
Aim based games is easy mode especially the team fighting since you have no clue what all the other players around you are doing at any given moment. It is a chaotic mess at best with very little overview. UO:R gave on screen at any given moment a full overview of all players actions. On all those variables all players had to react and perform in milliseconds with the proper healing or attack spell, timing was of the essence.
So aiming is one skill, on that i agree, but try to understand that aim in MMO games is just one of all the skills you need to master depending on how the combat system works. Darkfall was a very easy game to master compared to the hardest tab targeting game UO:R.
It is a no brainer...
"You dont know what those around you are doing"
Well if your playing a game like that it's your job to know what's happening around you and to coordinate your guild/team
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
You not understanding this inform me you lack a lot of experience of these different games and can't have a opinion on it.
My guilds skill in Darkfall was very good since we never lost a fight. We had all Rubaiyat and some cities on main land before leaving the game. Darkfall was a very easy game to compete in compared to a game like UO:R.
The discussion is about the fact that COE is not using tab targeting.
Stay focused on the thread not trying to persuade everyone you were skilled at PvP in an ancient game.
Yeah your right ancient games sucks cause they are ancient, :pleased:.
And you misunderstood my post. By needing all the information you say UO:R gave you means you are not actually tactically "aware" yourself.
Therefore your lack of skill in coordination and lack of awareness due to needing thst information tells me all I need to know about your skill
Signed Davan Drakenhoff ruler of Castle Drakenhoff the impenatrable castle made from cardboard
In a complex tab-target game, a skilled tab-targeter will wipe the floor with a skilled action-combat pro. The reverse will apply if they face each other in an action-combat game.
IMHO, tab-targeting is hard to learn well and even harder to master. Action-combat is easier to learn but some people will never be able to master it, because they simply lack the eye-to-hand co-ordination and reflexes.
One type of skill is not "superior" to another, different people just prefer different play styles.
I couldn't care less what some wannabe forum warriors over here believe about me or my guild. Having one of the small islands in Darkfall for ourself and never loosing one battle during our time tell me we did pretty good. That we succeeded to create the first tier 4 city on early Darkfall EU before all the zergs tell me we were skilled not just in PvP but also as a guild did very well in other areas of the game.
Just out of curiosity, did you even play UO:R?
Action combat is like Tera, or dark fall.
Yeah, 2 pages of bollox summarized above.
The act of tab targeting a player requires you to ..... press the tab key....target acquired. This is a single action and is 100% successful regardless of player skill.
The act of aiming at a player requires you to .... move the mouse, anticipate direction of movement, time the action key. This is an ongoing action and success is reliant on player skill.
BIG f'ing difference in skill needed to get your attack to land.
If you want to argue anything other then 'this game will not use tab targeting' start another thread but stop going on about all the other shit that isn't relevant to the OP's question.
Unfortunately some people in this thread have been unable to separate the mode of acquisition and the actions taken once that has been achieved. The complexity of available options and the skill a player can use once a target has been acquired can vary depending on the game. You can have a tab target game with 50 options to use against an acquired target or an aiming game that has just 1 or vice versa.
One does not simply walk into irony...
Archeage, ehhh, really didn't research it. Saw a couple of videos and it has the quick dashing style of movement that suggested action combat. It's a pay to win mess, so I don't spend any time thinking about it.
"Never losing one battle during our time" lol.
I was in Covert Operations. CO consistently beat Blackhand Order, along with the zergs that DUSK alliance brought out when ever anyone made landfall on Ruby. I would never make such a ridiculous claim that CO never lost though; everyone lost in pvp at some point, especially me in those for 9 months -- because thats how you learned to pvp.
We just never lost to terribles like Blackhand.
You keep telling other people in this thread they cannot compare tab target to twitch pvp like darkfall because they have "no experience" with "skillful tab target". I find this ironic coming from someone who so proudly claims association with some of the worst pvpers CO ever fought.
You really have no business claiming "experience" in twitch pvp anymore than a cat falling into a bath tub can say they have "experience" with swimming.
We were BB4L and we never lost a fight except when fighting the cheaters from the Mercs. We never lost a city and when we left we had the best crafter in Many Marsh and the first created tier 4 city.
Funny read from a former the Mercs player -
http://imgur.com/J5dH1
http://imgur.com/DgNW1
We had poor alliance guilds like the oldtimers so we alliad the russians and took over Ruba with Cactus and later on also some mainland holdings to the south (holdings we took from that horribly bad mainland zerg Coalition of the Chilling). Black hand Order did very good in Darkfall 2, a game they dominated without being a zerg, and your guilds performance was very poor in DF1 and you never managed to take a holding on Ruba as long as we were there.
http://s12.photobucket.com/user/Fiye/media/Darkfall Political Map/DarkfallPoliticalMapMay212009-1.jpg.html
You guys didn't even have a city which say a lot what no namers your guild was. I guess you were in one of the terrible mainland zergs that were beaten every time they entered Ruba. So many weak players in DF that thought numbers was the only sollution.