Star Citizen - Development Updates

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  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy DublinMember RarePosts: 2,506
    edited July 2016
    There is no proof that Steam is the primary vendor. The game had sold almost 600,000 copies via Frontier's store before it even appeared on Steam (April 2015).

    Which means to surpass the amount sold on Steam (781,000) all they would need to sell via their store in the last year is 181,000 copies.
    Post edited by rpmcmurphy on
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member RarePosts: 681
    You don't need a primary vendor to analyse a big chunk of data. There's a big chunk of data in steam that provides enough data to access the decline of the game based on those numbers.
  • ErillionErillion Member EpicPosts: 7,956
    I concur with Babuinix that the TREND will be the same, no matter what data (Steam, Frontier) you use.

    I do not concur with Babuinix assessment that the game is "dying". It has peaked early, like most multiplayer games do, but its far from "dying".  IMHO it will follow the trend of many MMO's, with smaller new peaks appearing with every expansion.

    A change to true avatar gameplay may have a more pronounced effect on the trend, but that needs a lot of additional back-end work on behalf of Frontier.


    Have fun
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member RarePosts: 681
    My theory is based on the lack of a sustained player increase and game mechanics that captivate the players to keep playing, updates sure add some peaks in player count but they fail to retain those and gain momentum. And that is without a space game to compete against, how do you think it will fare with other games coming into play like Star Citizen, NoManSky, Infinity: Battlescape, Everspace and the many others around the corner...
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy DublinMember RarePosts: 2,506
    Babuinix said:
    You don't need a primary vendor to analyse a big chunk of data. There's a big chunk of data in steam that provides enough data to access the decline of the game based on those numbers.

    The post preceeding mine said that Steam is the primary vendor, that is the only point I was addressing.

    I have no opinion about analysing data one way or the other.

    I'll leave that up to the armchair analysts.
  • jcrg99jcrg99 Toronto, ONMember UncommonPosts: 723
    Babuinix said:
    My theory is based on the lack of a sustained player increase and game mechanics that captivate the players to keep playing, updates sure add some peaks in player count but they fail to retain those and gain momentum. And that is without a space game to compete against, how do you think it will fare with other games coming into play like Star Citizen, NoManSky, Infinity: Battlescape, Everspace and the many others around the corner...
    It's a reasonable theory, but you are missing something very important here. Elite Dangerous, by design and having a better engine for its purposes, have the trend of always been ahead on features DONE (stable and playable) than Star Citizen ever will be capable to release to their players. 
    Do you really think that people will abandon a game with more constant updates (meaningfull updates) in exchange of a MVP that will spend more 5 or 10 years to deliver stability, always including additional/missing features with big delays, probably breaking the existent features, making even people lose their expensive assets spend by real dollars for bugs, etc and will require a more powerful machine to play? 
    I mean. You may be right and Elite Dangerous may be dying. But if Elite Dangerous dies, you should understand that Star Citizen would have died earlier, again, due the simple reality of one design/development and other. Due how one achieve more platforma and other don't.
    Star Citizen is the one that will die due competition my friend. Actually, SC as a game/project has been dead for years. Uta a project totally not feasible that wont resist to the realities of the marker. Its just alive due hopes, dreams and sunk cost falacy. And will stay as long as some whales be kept throwing money for nothing, until they finally wake up and notice that are always dreaming and behind even of indie developers which invested 100 times less money that was donated for Star Citizen.

  • BabuinixBabuinix Member RarePosts: 681
    edited July 2016
    First it must be said that Elite only took ground after Braben saw the sucess of Star Citizen campaign. So Elite is very much a reality because of Chris Roberts.

    Second, Elite has not received ameaningfull update for 6 months now. Star Citizen keeps adding and adding stuff, from new ships to new gameplay items (fps weapons) to game play features. It already has the main mechanics besides Planetary Landing , said to be coming this year and we already saw proofs of the tech working. Were is Elite Multicrew demo? Usage of avatars walking around, FPS, EVA,  atmospheric flight ? Shopping and interaction between real npcs? Nothing besides concept pictures.

    You've been saying that Star Citizen is dying since 2014 lol, how's that going ?
    117 millions and counting!
    Post edited by Babuinix on
  • jcrg99jcrg99 Toronto, ONMember UncommonPosts: 723
    edited July 2016
    Babuinix said:
    First it must be said that Elite only took ground after Braben saw the sucess of Star Citizen campaign. So Elite is very much a reality because of Chris Roberts.

    Second, Elite has not received ameaningfull update for 6 months now. Star Citizen keeps adding and adding stuff, from new ships to new gameplay items (fps weapons) to game play features. It already has the main mechanics besides Planetary Landing , said to be coming this year and we already saw proofs of the tech working. Were is Elite Multicrew demo? Usage of avatars walking around, FPS, EVA,  atmospheric flight ? Shopping and interaction between real npcs? Nothing besides concept pictures.

    You've been saying that Star Citizen is dying since 2014 lol, how's that going ?
    117 millions and counting!
    First, you lied. Its well-know that ED Kickstarter was supposed to be made earlier than Star Citizen. Several months earlier actually. It just came after because the platform was available in UK after.
    As coming after and as Roberts presented his ideas with gameplay available (which today we know that was just to mislead the public to believe that they were more advanced that they really were and for that reason they could achieve the 2 year time period for release - if 5.5 million dolars were given) ED actually had difficulties to be funded. 
    You can't be serious when you compared the updates that Elite received with the updates that SC received in the last 6 months. I am not going to waste my time on this, because its pretty much common sense that SC is ridiculously behind... and if you were at least 10% less biased that you are, you would have no way, but agree that SC, due their design decisions and constraints always will take longer to release their stuff and have the trend to be less popular in number of players due hardware/platform restrictions. 
    And yes. Star Citizen have been dying since 2012... as a feasible game, as a competitive game, exactly because this issue of taking longer and by consequence getting stale amd losing ground for competitors that can be faster to release meaningful features that most of the space sim fans prefer, ganeplay features that goes way beyond of new clothes.
    The features that SC have "released" as you claim... none of them are in a completion status, are they? They are more categorized as features added to a tech demo, proof of concept, than in a functional/stable game. The features added to ED are a lot more and are at least 99% completed and stable. 
    That is why, for example, they have a lot more people playing, ok?
    Please do not deny reality. You screwed in your pathetic analysis. Just admit and move on. Its not a shame to be wrong. Who knows. Maybe CIG can survive... barely... always selling 2000 dollar jpeg porn and dreams for a few enthusiasts? But forget this idea that SC is competitive because is not.
    SC is not able to kill anyone... others are able to kill SC easily. And that is why there is this strong appeal to sell concepts for a few for ridiculous prices. Because just a few are dreaming. I wonder for how much longer, considering so many other games realizing most of their dreams, ina completed status/faster, than SC ever will be capable of.
    SC has not a single finished and great feature completed. And look how long they are taking to fix even the most basic ones. So, please... dont be ridiculous.
    Post edited by jcrg99 on
  • BabuinixBabuinix Member RarePosts: 681
    Ahaha so a game which numbers keep increasing, money wise and player wise is dying... O.o okidoki.
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy DublinMember RarePosts: 2,506
    edited July 2016
    Babuinix said:
    First it must be said that Elite only took ground after Braben saw the sucess of Star Citizen campaign. So Elite is very much a reality because of Chris Roberts.

    Second, Elite has not received ameaningfull update for 6 months now. Star Citizen keeps adding and adding stuff, from new ships to new gameplay items (fps weapons) to game play features. It already has the main mechanics besides Planetary Landing , said to be coming this year and we already saw proofs of the tech working. Were is Elite Multicrew demo? Usage of avatars walking around, FPS, EVA,  atmospheric flight ? Shopping and interaction between real npcs? Nothing besides concept pictures.

    You've been saying that Star Citizen is dying since 2014 lol, how's that going ?
    117 millions and counting!

    Someone on reddit said you're that zecumbe guy, is that true? Because like him you sound so desparate to put other games down to try and make you feel better about the one you support. Pretty sad tbh.

    Elite received a major update just 4 weeks ago, here are the patch notes to show the added content, features and bug fixes if you don't believe it was a pretty major - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/253924-1-6-and-The-Engineers-(2-1)-update-incoming

    It's really funny that you consider the above a small patch but talk up the adding of a firearm as though it's major content for Star Citizen :D
    You talk up prototype testing as though it is in game or soon to be arriving but ignore all the cases where it is shown off a year or more before becoming a reality, you ignore that they haven't shown anything since the initial prototype video.

    You talk about Elite jumping on the kickstarter wagon but ignore that CIG released their pupil to planet mockup 1 day after Elite's planetary landing expansion launched.

    If you know anything about Frontier it's that they don't show off prototypes, they show off working tech, they show it off when it is close to release as opposed to showing it off a year or more before it's ready.

    The problem here is that you see bias and copycat behaviour where you want to see it, while totally ignoring all of the opposing cases. You need to take a step back grasshopper.

    Post edited by rpmcmurphy on
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy DublinMember RarePosts: 2,506
    edited July 2016
    Babuinix said:
    Ahaha so a game which numbers keep increasing, money wise and player wise is dying... O.o okidoki.

    You do realise that Star Citizen, a teeny alpha has had more refund requests than Elite Dangerous, a game that has been released for over 2 years. Perhaps you want to think about that for a minute.


    Edit: To help you further your armchair analysis degree I've found this study of player retention rates, they use F2P MMOs as their example so bear in mind that the border to entry is even lower than somehting like Elite - https://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/understanding-mmo-retention/




    Post edited by rpmcmurphy on
  • ShodanasShodanas PatrasMember RarePosts: 1,815
    Babuinix said:
    You don't need a primary vendor to analyse a big chunk of data. There's a big chunk of data in steam that provides enough data to access the decline of the game based on those numbers.

    The post preceeding mine said that Steam is the primary vendor, that is the only point I was addressing.

    I have no opinion about analysing data one way or the other.

    I'll leave that up to the armchair analysts.
    How typical, when confronted with an argument you can't counter you resort to irony and mockery.

    Steam is one of the 2 primary vendors for ED with more copies sold via its platform. 780K is a sample much bigger than one actually needed for ED's case.

    One doesn't have to be an analyst to comprehend this. However, what one needs to exhibit is common sense and logical thinking.
  • ShodanasShodanas PatrasMember RarePosts: 1,815
    edited July 2016
    Babuinix said:
    Ahaha so a game which numbers keep increasing, money wise and player wise is dying... O.o okidoki.

    You do realise that Star Citizen, a teeny alpha has had more refund requests than Elite Dangerous, a game that has been released for over 2 years. Perhaps you want to think about that for a minute.


    Edit: To help you further your armchair analysis degree I've found this study of player retention rates, they use F2P MMOs as their example so bear in mind that the border to entry is even lower than somehting like Elite - https://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/understanding-mmo-retention/




    You should look up the terms "Free to Play" and "Buy to Play" (in ED's and SC's case).

    What you linked is totally out of context and therefore irrelevant.
    Post edited by Shodanas on
  • filmoretfilmoret Palm Bay, FLMember EpicPosts: 4,906
    Babuinix said:
    First it must be said that Elite only took ground after Braben saw the sucess of Star Citizen campaign. So Elite is very much a reality because of Chris Roberts.

    Second, Elite has not received ameaningfull update for 6 months now. Star Citizen keeps adding and adding stuff, from new ships to new gameplay items (fps weapons) to game play features. It already has the main mechanics besides Planetary Landing , said to be coming this year and we already saw proofs of the tech working. Were is Elite Multicrew demo? Usage of avatars walking around, FPS, EVA,  atmospheric flight ? Shopping and interaction between real npcs? Nothing besides concept pictures.

    You've been saying that Star Citizen is dying since 2014 lol, how's that going ?
    117 millions and counting!
    Did you seriously just say that?  Elite hasn't had a meaningful update in 6 months?  Meanwhile SC hasn't even added half the stuff that Elite already has.  You see how illogical your statement was?  I know we have high hopes for SC but you are acting like they have finished and they have not and we have no proof.  Untill that actually happens you shouldn't really be saying half the stuff you just said.
    Are you onto something or just on something?
  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy DublinMember RarePosts: 2,506
    Shodanas said:
    How typical, when confronted with an argument you can't counter you resort to irony and mockery.

    Steam is one of the 2 primary vendors for ED with more copies sold via its platform. 780K is a sample much bigger than one actually needed for ED's case.

    One doesn't have to be an analyst to comprehend this. However, what one needs to exhibit is common sense and logical thinking.

    That's some sweet, sweet irony coming from you Shodanas. Accusing others of things while being extremely controntational in virtually all of your posts when presented with a difference of opinion.

    You clearly missed the point that in the time 780,000 copies had to be sold on Steam, Frontier only had to sell 180,000 copies via their own store.

    Now, which do you think is more likely?


  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy DublinMember RarePosts: 2,506
    edited July 2016
    Shodanas said:
    You should look up the terms "Free to Play" and "Buy to Play" (in ED's and SC's case).

    What you linked is totally out of context and therefore irrelevant.

    Yah duh, no shit sherlock... you would know that if you read my post because I made a point about the article's analysis being based on F2P MMO.

    Come back with some real proof that it is irrelevant rather than your simple desire to be argumentative. Retention rates are not determined by how much or how little you paid as an entry fee....
    Post edited by rpmcmurphy on
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,400
    edited July 2016
    Babuinix said:
    First it must be said that Elite only took ground after Braben saw the sucess of Star Citizen campaign. So Elite is very much a reality because of Chris Roberts.

    Wrong.  Braben and company announced their development of E:D (and the Kickstarter campaign) before Star Citizen began its crowdfunding campaign.

    EDIT- This post sounded more arrogant than I meant for it to be.  Apologies for that.  However, it is obvious that Frontier began development on E:D at roughly the same time Roberts and company started developing Star Citizen (if not slightly before).
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

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  • lahnmirlahnmir UtrechtMember RarePosts: 891
    Who needs facts when you have people like some of you here. SC hasn't proven anything yet, it is not even in early access and all the numbers getting thrown around say NOTHING about SC. SC as envisioned does not even exist (yet) and that is the ONLY quality you can judge the game by. Alpha played blablabla, pre ordered blablabla, ridiculous amount of cash grab stuff in the shop blablabla.

    Just stop it, there is no game yet, stop acting like Jesus has returned, you've got some half baked modules being thrown around and some pixel art, I would not even call their stuff a game yet, pre pre pre alpha sounds about right. When it releases we can judge, everything else is speculation and wishful thinking. Unfortunately with the speed they are working at I would be seriously surprised if it launches somewhere before 2018, already having been surpassed quality and quantity wise by other titles by the time it actually hits the shelves.

    being excited is ok, being realistic and honest is even better, don't be that fool.

    /Cheers,
    Lahnmir
    'the only way he could nail it any better is if he used a cross.'

    Kyleran on yours sincerely 

  • CrazKanukCrazKanuk Elmira, ONMember EpicPosts: 5,742
    Babuinix said:
    First it must be said that Elite only took ground after Braben saw the sucess of Star Citizen campaign. So Elite is very much a reality because of Chris Roberts.

    Wrong.  Braben and company announced their development of E:D (and the Kickstarter campaign) before Star Citizen began its crowdfunding campaign.

    I've got to agree with this. To believe that there wasn't something already underway for ED would be naive. It's not something done on a whim. Ask John Romero......... (sorry John! Love you!)

    Crazkanuk

    ----------------
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  • BabuinixBabuinix Member RarePosts: 681
    Without Star Citizen and Chris Roberts support there would be no Elite. Simple.
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,400
    /facepalm

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  • Turrican187Turrican187 WernigerodeMember UncommonPosts: 633
    Babuinix said:
    Nice link, but unfiortunately it prooves nothing.
    Facts:
    Elite was released 1984 a little before WingCommander.
    ED and SC were planned at the same time there is absolutly no proof which one and if one was the reason to kickstart the other.

    If you think that a simple congrat letter from one producer to another is responsible for the whole project then please check your reality status again.

    When you have cake, it is not the cake that creates the most magnificent of experiences, but it is the emotions attached to it.
    The cake is a lie.

  • rpmcmurphyrpmcmurphy DublinMember RarePosts: 2,506
    edited July 2016
    Babuinix said:

    Which means what exactly?
    Using your logic, if I was to put up a link showing Braben talking about Star Citizen would that mean Star Citizen wouldn't have happened without Elite? I doubt you would agree with that, would you? :D

    Anyhow, here's the funding tracker for the kickstarter, do you see a spike from when Roberts mentions it because I sure don't.



    Elite has had a decent sized following over 3 games since 1984, it was in no way relying on Chris Roberts to make it successful.
    Post edited by rpmcmurphy on
  • MadFrenchieMadFrenchie Nashville, TNMember EpicPosts: 2,400
    edited July 2016
    Post edited by MadFrenchie on

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