Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

So how can it fail?

2456789

Comments

  • mayito7777mayito7777 Member UncommonPosts: 768
    I am not buying this game until they have a PVE only server.

    want 7 free days of playing? Try this

    http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY

  • HeraseHerase Member RarePosts: 993
    Reizla said:
    Waterlily said:
    I noticed many people use the word "sandbox" to justify a game that lacks enough PVE content. Black Desert is one of them.
    So LOL. EVE online is a sandbox and had little to no PvE content. Same for Lineage II though it's more a hybrid sandbox where clan/guild politics are very important. Black Desert is one of those MMOs that doesn't necessarily relies on PvE as one of the ways to enjoy the game. Perhaps the following movie enlightens on that as well:



    IMO Black Desert has so much to offer as a sandbox game that it's 'lack for PvE content' (which statement isn't really true) should be not a real problem. Only problem I see is that it's using 'daily quests' and yet calls itself sandbox...
    when people say lack of "PvE content" they're basically saying "It has no raid or dungeons". Think people need to realise end game PvE doesn't always have to gravitate around raids or dungeons  
  • LobotomistLobotomist Member EpicPosts: 5,960
    How did Archeage fail ?

    Simple fact : Asian games do not fare very good in west, and the fact that they are brought over with only half assed effort does not help either.



  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    How did Archeage fail ?

    Simple fact : Asian games do not fare very good in west, and the fact that they are brought over with only half assed effort does not help either.

    Asian games do fine in the west.  You don't speak for everyone in the west.  
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    How did Archeage fail ?

    Simple fact : Asian games do not fare very good in west, and the fact that they are brought over with only half assed effort does not help either.
    so that is 'fail in the west' not fail completely.

    also...did archeage actually fail? I know I didnt like it but not sure it 'failed' even in the west

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • PhryPhry Member LegendaryPosts: 11,004
    Herase said:
    Reizla said:
    Waterlily said:
    I noticed many people use the word "sandbox" to justify a game that lacks enough PVE content. Black Desert is one of them.
    So LOL. EVE online is a sandbox and had little to no PvE content. Same for Lineage II though it's more a hybrid sandbox where clan/guild politics are very important. Black Desert is one of those MMOs that doesn't necessarily relies on PvE as one of the ways to enjoy the game. Perhaps the following movie enlightens on that as well:



    IMO Black Desert has so much to offer as a sandbox game that it's 'lack for PvE content' (which statement isn't really true) should be not a real problem. Only problem I see is that it's using 'daily quests' and yet calls itself sandbox...
    when people say lack of "PvE content" they're basically saying "It has no raid or dungeons". Think people need to realise end game PvE doesn't always have to gravitate around raids or dungeons  
    Or they could be saying that there is a lack of PVE content, because the only options probably involve PVP.
    Unless there actually is an option other than PVP then chances are, PVE players will notice this, and either complain about it and leave, or just leave.
    If Daum want PVE players to stay, then, they need to give them a reason to, one that doesn't involve, oddly enough, PVP.
    Of course, if the PVE players leave, then the PVP players will probably complain about that too.

    Pop quiz time, in MMO's where there is a server option between PVE, RP, and PVP, which servers are the emptiest.
    Answer, the PVP servers, doesn't even matter whether the genre is Scifi or Fantasy, this is always the case. :p

  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    edited February 2016
    Phry said:
     

    Or they could be saying that there is a lack of PVE content, because the only options probably involve PVP.
    Unless there actually is an option other than PVP then chances are, PVE players will notice this, and either complain about it and leave, or just leave.
    If Daum want PVE players to stay, then, they need to give them a reason to, one that doesn't involve, oddly enough, PVP.
    Of course, if the PVE players leave, then the PVP players will probably complain about that too.

    Pop quiz time, in MMO's where there is a server option between PVE, RP, and PVP, which servers are the emptiest.
    Answer, the PVP servers, doesn't even matter whether the genre is Scifi or Fantasy, this is always the case. :p

    Point is well taken so if they were to divide the PvE from the PvP by say removal of karma and levels restriction on a PvP server and give others options for PvP with karma on another server and make a server PvE only the PvE only server would be more populated? whew long sentence.
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • WizardryWizardry Member LegendaryPosts: 19,332
    rodarin said:
    I havent played it but from inference I would saying grinding mobs to level (as opposed to questing to level) isnt sandbox). Even in the most generous terms if youre not getting exp from EVERYTHING you do then it isnt sandbox anyway, but that isnt mutually exclusive as in IF you do get exp from everything that doesnt make it sandbox either.

    Why it will 'fail' is because it doesnt have nearly enough content to keep people busy long enough for them to create new content, and the people that leave will never come back in the droves they came to it.

    PvP isnt enough of an endgame anymore to keep people interested especially when its just another flawed attempt at 'open world' PvP which is little more than glorified ganking.
    I personally don't like and feel the terms Sandbox and Themepark are misused.
    However if we go on what  people are defining them as,killing mobs allows you CHOICE or it should.Quest hubs do not and are about as linear as it gets,further more it has every player playing the exact same method,no choice,so it is not even your game play,basically connect the dots.It is basically like a paint by numbers set instead of free form artistry.
    Also to get xp for just any old reason is down right retarded.I have mentioned this so many times and it is so obvious yet devs just keep doing it.

    Xp should be related to what you are accomplishing,it should not be some random tool to gain a level number.If you are a warrior your actions should be your experience towards being a better warrior.Following some paint by numbers quest hub has absolutely nothing to do with being a better warrior but that is how develoopers trend to design their games because ...well they don't have a clue.

    Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    One must understand how PvP works in DBO first.
    Despite being FFA PvP after level 45, the consequences for mindless killing are utterly harsh, and unless one wants to ruin a character, not really viable.
    The amount of PvE content is clearly shown in the video posted above, and the video doesn't really describe the whole trading and crafting system either. There's actually more PvE content than PvP content... go figure.
    I still have to wonder what goes thru a developers mind when they think 'at stage X we are going to make people who dont want to pvp to pvp'

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • mayito7777mayito7777 Member UncommonPosts: 768
    I am not paying $50 to play a game where PVP is part of it without my consent. No accidentally PVP flag, nothing like that, I play PVE no PVP and if any game wants money they must realize what ha sbeen posted here in many cases, PVP servers end dead. Look at the most recent example with Wildstar where they have to merge the PVP server and PVE servers in EU and in NA. Because PVP is  the killer of any game.

    want 7 free days of playing? Try this

    http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY

  • KiyorisKiyoris Member RarePosts: 2,130
    edited February 2016

    How did Archeage fail ?

    Simple fact : Asian games do not fare very good in west, and the fact that they are brought over with only half assed effort does not help either.
    Games from Japanese companies with experience like  Sega, Konami, FromSoftware, Squeenix, Namco Bandai, Gust, Vanillaware are usually great. FFXIV is a great game.

    MMO from Korea is a different story. They release sub-par game after sub-par game, with incredibly bad retention rates, which is why they keep having to release game after game in short order.
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
     

    One must understand how PvP works in DBO first.
    Despite being FFA PvP after level 45, the consequences for mindless killing are utterly harsh, and unless one wants to ruin a character, not really viable.
    The amount of PvE content is clearly shown in the video posted above, and the video doesn't really describe the whole trading and crafting system either. There's actually more PvE content than PvP content... go figure.
    This was posted and produce an unexpected replies that were shocking.

     http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/23424-pk-myth/
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • ReizlaReizla Member RarePosts: 4,092
    Phry said:
    Or they could be saying that there is a lack of PVE content, because the only options probably involve PVP.
    Unless there actually is an option other than PVP then chances are, PVE players will notice this, and either complain about it and leave, or just leave.
    If Daum want PVE players to stay, then, they need to give them a reason to, one that doesn't involve, oddly enough, PVP.
    Of course, if the PVE players leave, then the PVP players will probably complain about that too.

    Pop quiz time, in MMO's where there is a server option between PVE, RP, and PVP, which servers are the emptiest.
    Answer, the PVP servers, doesn't even matter whether the genre is Scifi or Fantasy, this is always the case. :p

    One must understand how PvP works in DBO first.
    Despite being FFA PvP after level 45, the consequences for mindless killing are utterly harsh, and unless one wants to ruin a character, not really viable.
    The amount of PvE content is clearly shown in the video posted above, and the video doesn't really describe the whole trading and crafting system either. There's actually more PvE content than PvP content... go figure.
    That's why I like BDO's PvP/PK system - it's much like what I'm used to from Lineage II, and I LOVED that PvP/PK system. The only down side for BDO is that PvP starts at level 30 instead of level 1 :(
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    Phry said:
    Herase said:
    Reizla said:
    Waterlily said:
    I noticed many people use the word "sandbox" to justify a game that lacks enough PVE content. Black Desert is one of them.
    So LOL. EVE online is a sandbox and had little to no PvE content. Same for Lineage II though it's more a hybrid sandbox where clan/guild politics are very important. Black Desert is one of those MMOs that doesn't necessarily relies on PvE as one of the ways to enjoy the game. Perhaps the following movie enlightens on that as well:



    IMO Black Desert has so much to offer as a sandbox game that it's 'lack for PvE content' (which statement isn't really true) should be not a real problem. Only problem I see is that it's using 'daily quests' and yet calls itself sandbox...
    when people say lack of "PvE content" they're basically saying "It has no raid or dungeons". Think people need to realise end game PvE doesn't always have to gravitate around raids or dungeons  
    Or they could be saying that there is a lack of PVE content, because the only options probably involve PVP.
    Unless there actually is an option other than PVP then chances are, PVE players will notice this, and either complain about it and leave, or just leave.
    If Daum want PVE players to stay, then, they need to give them a reason to, one that doesn't involve, oddly enough, PVP.
    Of course, if the PVE players leave, then the PVP players will probably complain about that too.

    Pop quiz time, in MMO's where there is a server option between PVE, RP, and PVP, which servers are the emptiest.
    Answer, the PVP servers, doesn't even matter whether the genre is Scifi or Fantasy, this is always the case. :p


    There is plenty of end-game PvE content in BDO.  There just doesn't happen to be enough combat-centric PvE end game content ... yet.  In a sandbox game ... that does make a difference.  That said, although I am pro-PvE as far as MMORPG game play is concerned, I have to be honest when saying that there isn't much to say about PvE end game content when all it pretty much entails is jumping on a tread-mill and doing repeat dungeon crawls or raids, fighting random world bosses, and riding that on-rails quest trail.  Personally, I am tired of all of that.  I look forward to the day when PvE end game content is challenging and meaningful.  Not the same ol', same ol", BS they've been feeding us for the past decade plus.
  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775

    If you don't flag yourself at all, you will still be open to attack, but... the attacker risks so much more than you that it won't be worth it. Red PKs have the risk of losing gear on death. They also completely lose access to any town, village or other NPCs. Not to mention the bounty system. For the first time in a MMORPG, criminals are really treated as criminals, and their life is an utter pain as it should be. The predator quickly becomes the prey.

    Read what people say about the Korean servers... PKing almost never happens.
    I am not saying the system doesnt account for what you are describing but I am saying I dont know why a developer would consider that a 'non-choice' to begin with. It seems like a non-starter or rather (how best to design a system that shouldnt exist in the first place) the 'non-choice system'

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    SEANMCAD said:

    One must understand how PvP works in DBO first.
    Despite being FFA PvP after level 45, the consequences for mindless killing are utterly harsh, and unless one wants to ruin a character, not really viable.
    The amount of PvE content is clearly shown in the video posted above, and the video doesn't really describe the whole trading and crafting system either. There's actually more PvE content than PvP content... go figure.
    I still have to wonder what goes thru a developers mind when they think 'at stage X we are going to make people who dont want to pvp to pvp'
    If you don't flag yourself at all, you will still be open to attack, but... the attacker risks so much more than you that it won't be worth it. Red PKs have the risk of losing gear on death. They also completely lose access to any town, village or other NPCs. Not to mention the bounty system. For the first time in a MMORPG, criminals are really treated as criminals, and their life is an utter pain as it should be. The predator quickly becomes the prey.

    Read what people say about the Korean servers... PKing almost never happens.

    But will that prevent anyone from creating a character to simply gank?  They will have their main, which they will value and maintain a pristine image with, and then have an alt, which they will throw to the wolves and won't care about it staying red with -5000 karma so long as they can use it to gank and get their anti-social rocks off on.  If there is no prevention for the latter, then it is all for naught, is it not?
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    SEANMCAD said:

    One must understand how PvP works in DBO first.
    Despite being FFA PvP after level 45, the consequences for mindless killing are utterly harsh, and unless one wants to ruin a character, not really viable.
    The amount of PvE content is clearly shown in the video posted above, and the video doesn't really describe the whole trading and crafting system either. There's actually more PvE content than PvP content... go figure.
    I still have to wonder what goes thru a developers mind when they think 'at stage X we are going to make people who dont want to pvp to pvp'
    If you don't flag yourself at all, you will still be open to attack, but... the attacker risks so much more than you that it won't be worth it. Red PKs have the risk of losing gear on death. They also completely lose access to any town, village or other NPCs. Not to mention the bounty system. For the first time in a MMORPG, criminals are really treated as criminals, and their life is an utter pain as it should be. The predator quickly becomes the prey.

    Read what people say about the Korean servers... PKing almost never happens.
    Dude you are not reading the links they are PROMOTING PK NOT using it as harsh death penalties' any more. Read the post completely.

    http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/23424-pk-myth/
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • Jimmy562Jimmy562 Member UncommonPosts: 1,158
    Waterlily said:
    PVP, Guild Sieges, more grinding of trash mobs for rare items and a few open world bosses that can be zerged, is not "PVE endgame".

    This is probably a great game for PVP players, this is not something for people who want PVE endgame content.
    There are more than two types of players. 

    Runescape is probably one of the best MMO's I've ever played and when I did play it there was no traditional PVE endgame. All I ever did was explore, quest for rewards, grind for xp and gather resources(fishing, woodcutting, mining etc) and I had more fun than any game with a traditional PVE endgame.

    Raids and dungeons are not the only content a PVE player enjoys.
  • mayito7777mayito7777 Member UncommonPosts: 768
    ArChWind said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    One must understand how PvP works in DBO first.
    Despite being FFA PvP after level 45, the consequences for mindless killing are utterly harsh, and unless one wants to ruin a character, not really viable.
    The amount of PvE content is clearly shown in the video posted above, and the video doesn't really describe the whole trading and crafting system either. There's actually more PvE content than PvP content... go figure.
    I still have to wonder what goes thru a developers mind when they think 'at stage X we are going to make people who dont want to pvp to pvp'
    If you don't flag yourself at all, you will still be open to attack, but... the attacker risks so much more than you that it won't be worth it. Red PKs have the risk of losing gear on death. They also completely lose access to any town, village or other NPCs. Not to mention the bounty system. For the first time in a MMORPG, criminals are really treated as criminals, and their life is an utter pain as it should be. The predator quickly becomes the prey.

    Read what people say about the Korean servers... PKing almost never happens.
    Dude you are not reading the links they are PROMOTING PK NOT using it as harsh death penalties' any more. Read the post completely.

    http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/23424-pk-myth/
    I understand what you say but there is always some ashhatoles who dont care about it and will make PVE players lives miserable just because they can. Usually these type of  players have several more accounts so they enjoy it.

    want 7 free days of playing? Try this

    http://www.swtor.com/r/ZptVnY

  • SEANMCADSEANMCAD Member EpicPosts: 16,775
    guys I think from having read Jean-Luc_Picard in the past he is basically grateful that there is something he considers a Sandbox and is also not hard core PvP. I think in the end of the day if we asked him would it be better if all PvP without exception was a choice he would say yes.

    I think what he is saying here is that this system is a more reasonable option for PvE players.

    The problem in the industry as a whole is that games that are open world, good crafting and basically at all innovative have one major flaw. they make PvP a non-option.

    Please do not respond to me, even if I ask you a question, its rhetorical.

    Please do not respond to me

  • KefoKefo Member EpicPosts: 4,229
    SEANMCAD said:

    One must understand how PvP works in DBO first.
    Despite being FFA PvP after level 45, the consequences for mindless killing are utterly harsh, and unless one wants to ruin a character, not really viable.
    The amount of PvE content is clearly shown in the video posted above, and the video doesn't really describe the whole trading and crafting system either. There's actually more PvE content than PvP content... go figure.
    I still have to wonder what goes thru a developers mind when they think 'at stage X we are going to make people who dont want to pvp to pvp'
    If you don't flag yourself at all, you will still be open to attack, but... the attacker risks so much more than you that it won't be worth it. Red PKs have the risk of losing gear on death. They also completely lose access to any town, village or other NPCs. Not to mention the bounty system. For the first time in a MMORPG, criminals are really treated as criminals, and their life is an utter pain as it should be. The predator quickly becomes the prey.

    Read what people say about the Korean servers... PKing almost never happens.

    But will that prevent anyone from creating a character to simply gank?  They will have their main, which they will value and maintain a pristine image with, and then have an alt, which they will throw to the wolves and won't care about it staying red with -5000 karma so long as they can use it to gank and get their anti-social rocks off on.  If there is no prevention for the latter, then it is all for naught, is it not?

    Except the family name is displayed for all to see regardless of what character you are playing on the account. The karma level might be fine but your name will get dragged through the mud rather quickly
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    ArChWind said:
    SEANMCAD said:

    One must understand how PvP works in DBO first.
    Despite being FFA PvP after level 45, the consequences for mindless killing are utterly harsh, and unless one wants to ruin a character, not really viable.
    The amount of PvE content is clearly shown in the video posted above, and the video doesn't really describe the whole trading and crafting system either. There's actually more PvE content than PvP content... go figure.
    I still have to wonder what goes thru a developers mind when they think 'at stage X we are going to make people who dont want to pvp to pvp'
    If you don't flag yourself at all, you will still be open to attack, but... the attacker risks so much more than you that it won't be worth it. Red PKs have the risk of losing gear on death. They also completely lose access to any town, village or other NPCs. Not to mention the bounty system. For the first time in a MMORPG, criminals are really treated as criminals, and their life is an utter pain as it should be. The predator quickly becomes the prey.

    Read what people say about the Korean servers... PKing almost never happens.
    Dude you are not reading the links they are PROMOTING PK NOT using it as harsh death penalties' any more. Read the post completely.

    http://forum.blackdesertonline.com/index.php?/topic/23424-pk-myth/
    I understand what you say but there is always some ashhatoles who dont care about it and will make PVE players lives miserable just because they can. Usually these type of  players have several more accounts so they enjoy it.
    Here is the bottom line and why the developers are trying to get better OW FFA.

    One they changed the flagging system so if you flag neither party takes and consequence. If the one flagging the other attacks he take some karma loss the player he attacks is auto flagged PvP so if that player dies he loses experience and the attacker take more karma hit.

    Late game is grind heavy so player that has bad karma has to grind it off BUT still moves the experience bar forward while the player he killed is grind back lost experience and is losing hours making up for not flagging up.

    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • LacedOpiumLacedOpium Member EpicPosts: 2,327
    ArChWind said:

    I understand what you say but there is always some ashhatoles who dont care about it and will make PVE players lives miserable just because they can. Usually these type of  players have several more accounts so they enjoy it.
    Here is the bottom line and why the developers are trying to get better OW FFA.

    One they changed the flagging system so if you flag neither party takes and consequence. If the one flagging the other attacks he take some karma loss the player he attacks is auto flagged PvP so if that player dies he loses experience and the attacker take more karma hit.

    Late game is grind heavy so player that has bad karma has to grind it off BUT still moves the experience bar forward while the player he killed is grind back lost experience and is losing hours making up for not flagging up.


    If the above is true, then this is an awful system.  It is grossly unfair to have a player being attacked unprovoked to be experiencing any type of penalty other than death and experiencing the inconvenience of being interrupted with what they were doing and forced to respawn.  I sure hope the above is not the case because if it is, this game will go the way of the do-do really quick.
  • ArChWindArChWind Member UncommonPosts: 1,340
    edited February 2016
    ArChWind said:

    I understand what you say but there is always some ashhatoles who dont care about it and will make PVE players lives miserable just because they can. Usually these type of  players have several more accounts so they enjoy it.
    Here is the bottom line and why the developers are trying to get better OW FFA.

    One they changed the flagging system so if you flag neither party takes and consequence. If the one flagging the other attacks he take some karma loss the player he attacks is auto flagged PvP so if that player dies he loses experience and the attacker take more karma hit.

    Late game is grind heavy so player that has bad karma has to grind it off BUT still moves the experience bar forward while the player he killed is grind back lost experience and is losing hours making up for not flagging up.


    If the above is true, then this is an awful system.  It is grossly unfair to have a player being attacked unprovoked to be experiencing any type of penalty other than death and experiencing the inconvenience of being interrupted with what they were doing and forced to respawn.  I sure hope the above is not the case because if it is, this game will go the way of the do-do really quick.
    What they are doing is actually forcing PvE to PvP and possibly cause the attacker loss experience or just man up and do it in the first place. Stupid move in my opinion


    P.S. - it is live right now so someone go test it.
    ArChWind — MMORPG.com Forums

    If you are interested in making a MMO maybe visit my page to get a free open source engine.
  • cirdanecirdane Member UncommonPosts: 51

    It's simple The wife and I bought accounts to try it. I tend to PVP some the wife not at all(we started in DAOC). if we get constantly griefed by pvp while trying to PVE were done and out. game looks fantastic but were not 17 year old twitch players. We will spend a lot more money on the game if we like it than a 16 year old in a basement, so we are worth catering to, but if they want to be another Camelot unchained we'll just go play something else. from what I have read we are looking forward to the older style camping and game play but if any where and  any time some one can jump out during a pull and gank us with nothing but a kill a few mobs penalty then we're out and will write off the 60 bucks.

    PVP is great so long as all parties consent. Anything else is griefing. early(pre TOA) DAOC had it right you could pve all you wanted but the moment you stepped into the frontier you accepted that you could take a dirt nap at any time. Getting griefed the second I pull 6 mobs is not a viable business model no matter how many 16 year olds scream for it.

Sign In or Register to comment.